Open Forum – 1 December

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153 Comments

    • Duker

       /  2nd December 2019

      How things change ….. Young Nats used to cause a fuss on campus and the speakers were asked to go elsewhere . Farrar supported ‘the right to protest’ – guess who was the speaker?
      Hone Harawira

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  2nd December 2019

        Yep. 12 May 2011, The Herald:

        MP Hone Harawira is blaming racism and “rednecks” for the cancellation of a lecture he was to give at Auckland University last night.

        As a threatened protest of up to 170 students against “racial separatism” loomed, the law faculty cancelled the lecture – organised by the Maori Law Students Association – fearing a breach of the peace. It also cited a policy of not allowing lectures to be used as political platforms.

        The lecture, on the foreshore and seabed legislation, was relocated to the university marae, where the protesters were still planning to confront the Mana Party leader last night. Speaking at a Maori Expo hosted by the Auckland University of Technology yesterday, Mr Harawira blamed “rednecks” for the cancellation.

        “All of the rednecks at the university decided to create such a ruckus that the Law School cancelled it. In 2011, we’re still being pushed around.”

        He said divisions were bound to continue unless “we collectively step up and say, ‘Hell no, we won’t take that shit any longer’.” Afterwards he told journalists that Pakeha “right-wing students” were going to disrupt the lecture.

        “I was disappointed but not surprised. A lot of people think racism is dead and buried but clearly it’s not. I’m a Maori MP and I should have the right to talk to Maori law students.” Racism was more widespread than many people thought, he said. “I think what’s happening at Auckland University is an example of that.”

        At the marae last night, about 15 protesters turned up waving a New Zealand flag but they arrived after the meeting had started and were ushered away from the marae within minutes.

        Commerce student Louis Grainger, 19, who organised the protest, said he was hoping for a peaceful event. “We want to hear what Mr Harawira has to say, we want to put some questions forward to him but we also want him to know that his gutter politics, racial separatism and divisive behaviour is not acceptable.”

        But Mr Grainger accepted there might be aggressive elements in the protest.

        “I’ve tried to make it clear as much as I can that this is a peaceful thing. We want to encourage constructive debate, not destructive redneck racism. “I’ve been called a member of the Ku Klux Klan. I don’t really want to be giving that look.”

        He said the protest was not affiliated to any political group, but members of the Young Nationals and Act on Campus had shown an interest.

        Meanwhile, Prime Minister John Key says the Tai Tokerau byelection, caused by the resignation of Mr Harawira, will be held on June 25.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  2nd December 2019

        Fair comment. How many times did that happen? Did the Young Nats have a policy of continued harassment and assault against those they didn’t like. Pity the said protest didn’t go ahead so we could have compared sides.

        Hone Harawiria ..of white mo-fo fame.

        ”A libertarian politician wants to cut funding to universities that don’t protect free speech.”

        ARRRRRRGH! Seymour is not a Libertarian. He’s a ‘hands off socialist.’ A kind of more liberal Rightie.

        Who wrote this article? Ah, someone called Alex Loo.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  2nd December 2019

          As the name Loo is Germanic and Dutch, I fail to see the relevance of her name.

          Her photo shows a Pakeha with brown hair.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  2nd December 2019

            It’s probably pronounced Loh if it’s Dutch, like boom which is pron. bohm.

            Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  2nd December 2019

        Right to protest is not a right to ban speech.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  2nd December 2019

      I doubt his Bill will go anywhere. The Universities are probably entitled to devise & set their own policies with rules & processes for invitations to speakers & others may have theirs too.

      Massey’s now got a reputation as a ‘safe spaces’ university where certain speakers or topics aren’t likely to get an airing & get debated.

      Students can probably decide whether that’s the kind of environment where they want to study or whether they want to go to a university where there’s a more open policy on speakers & debates.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  2nd December 2019

        If the Bill of Rights is worth anything it will protect free speech in public institutions.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  2nd December 2019

          Fair enuf. There may be some justified limitations – like a speaker advocating illegal activities – but the banned cases that have been in the headlines in NZ – including Hone Harawira at the Auckland Law School in 2011 – have all been speakers on topics that I think should be able to be heard & debated at universities.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  4th December 2019

            The Harawira instance at face value has another ingredient in that a by-election involving the speaker was imminent and the event was purportedly a lecture so presumably a funded part of course work. That raises ethical questions about politicised teaching.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              Huh? That’s a rather fine point to argue, given that the lecture was still delivered, but on te University marae. Have you found anything online that shows that THAT was the specific reason the lecture at the law school was cancelled?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th December 2019

              Yes. Don’t you read your own posts?:
              the law faculty cancelled the lecture – organised by the Maori Law Students Association – fearing a breach of the peace. It also cited a policy of not allowing lectures to be used as political platforms.

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              Oh. How embarassing. Onviously I didn’t read all of that one closely enuf.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th December 2019

              I’ll let you off this time but I win again.

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              😀

              You’re overdue for a win. You can have that one for Christmas. 🌲

          • Duker

             /  4th December 2019

            Harawiras ‘lecture’ wasnt part of course work. he has no legal training or knowledge to part in that area.
            Its arguing a fine point about ‘ nothing political’ when the real reason was the Young Nationals threat of turning up en masse to disrupt the proceedings.

            That was then but now the fairly new Dean has her priorities right – with student numbers for Law school intake up a hundred to 423.
            And her background ?
            ‘An internationally renowned academic in the fields of human rights and refugee law whose most recent role was dean of the law school at Griffith University in Queensland,’

            Reply
  1. More bad news for Prince Andrew.

    It doesn’t look good for the royal family either.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  2nd December 2019

      So Andrew has a new Bentley … what ascandal . Pleeese its a storm in a teacup The Royal Family are ridiculously rich and no he doesnt just get a Royal Navy pension as the system is designed to cover their extravagant lifestyles too. It used to be called the Civil List but changed a decade or so back
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_the_British_royal_family
      “By 2002 there were eight recipients of parliamentary annuities (all children or cousins of the Queen)receiving a combined total of £1.5 million annually”
      The Queen now covers that from her own vast private revenues. As well they personally get inheritances when say the Queen Mother died ( or well before)

      20 years later Prince Andrew and other minor royals would be getting much than that…
      Its just a silly claim that he only gets ‘a pension’. He may be mixing with people who have companies in tax havens but even BBC presenters or Footballers in UK do that

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  2nd December 2019

        Well, yes, the knives are well & truly out for HRH the grand old Duke of York but the exposé focuses mainly on his alleged misuse of his official business as a paid UK Trade Envoy to further his own financial business interests & those of his friends the Rowlands. Something his critics are claiming was verboten.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  2nd December 2019

          Paid role ? Where does it say he was paid …it merely says ‘taxpayer funded trip..he would be getting expenses.
          read it properly…
          Im sure hes exploited the situation for personal benefit but how many 50 yrs old are dependent on their mum for their living expenses?
          Im thinking he would say …’but dare not now’ …look at all the ex politicians using ‘their status’ to make serious money

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  2nd December 2019

            You’re being overly pedantic. If he’s getting expenses he’s getting paid. What I find intriguing about this is it doesn’t seem to identify anything he or the Rowlands have done that’s illegal. We all know tax avoidance is something the wealthy excel at & are good at arranging vehicles for, but it’s not tax evasion.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  2nd December 2019

              Hes not ‘getting paid’. The Royal family on official business dont get paid or appearance money like sports stars. Its absurd to think so. The expenses are for his travels, hotels security blah blah. he wouldnt have them if he didnt travel as Roving Ambassador or what ever it was called

            • Gezza

               /  2nd December 2019

              The expenses are for his travels, hotels security blah blah. he wouldnt have them if he didnt travel as Roving Ambassador or what ever it was called

              He’s supposed to have racked up hundreds of thousands in travel alone paid for by the government on these “unofficial trade envoy” jaunts, some, maybe most, of which he may never have undertaken on his own coin. That’s payment in kind. Who knows what other personal luxuries & benefits he’s had on these trips which got ticked off & paid for by the taxpayer?

              Have you seen any kind of breakdown of these expenses, out of interest?

  2. Corky

     /  2nd December 2019

    When’s the QC review into the Labour party sexual assaults due out?

    According to the new Labour Party president it will be in December. She was talking to Mikey.

    December, eh! My guess…December 23rd.😂

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  2nd December 2019

      Dec 24th would be better. Whichever day will be irrelevant to those who had the incidents the most important things to happen in New Zealand sine the signing of the Treaty though .

      They won’t have their real priorities changed.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  2nd December 2019

        I wouldn’t know what the fug you are talking about. Is it a puzzle?🤔

        Reply
        • duperez

           /  2nd December 2019

          I took your comment as bitching that a report might come just before Christmas. It seemed a sneer that the day would be December 23rd. If it’s to be out on the 23rd in an implied effort to minimise attention it may as well be on the 24th.

          Anyone thinking that the crime of the century is the subject of the review will give it the same amount of attention on December 24th as they would on October 24th or August 24th. If they were serious. It’s called priorities.

          It’s about the terrible inconvenience of deep and abiding concern, consternation (and maybe anger since it’s about politics) needing to be turned on and off because of a calendar. And a presumed unavailability of the media to do its job properly.

          Deep abiding concerns, consternation, anger and reflection aren’t turned on or off for tinsel.

          Reply
    • Duker

       /  2nd December 2019

      We have just had a trial and sentence where it wasnt sexual assault at the Summer Camp
      Im thinking this will be the same , the office complaints will be bullying and sexual harrasment but no sexual assault- that would be a police matter but wasnt.
      Newsroom creative writing team had been on the case but cant manufacture facts…but donations hidden using straw donors, whats the bet that will be released …just before Xmas too

      Reply
  3. “While [Trump] boasts of supporting the military, he has come to distrust the generals and admirals who run it. Rather than accept information from his own government, he responds to television reports that grab his interest. Warned against crossing lines, he bulldozes past precedent and norms.”

    Chief Petty Officer Gallagher, for those who might not be aware of the whole story, didn’t just pose with the corpse of the teenager he murdered on the battlefield.

    His fellow SEALS – six of them – testified that he shot a little girl wearing a flowered hajib as she walked down the street. He also shot a man carrying a water jug to his house.

    He regularly led raids beyond the front lines, ordering his squad to turn off their locators so command would not know about it and then lied to cover up one of these illegal raids when one of his team was shot.

    He regularly yelled at and disregarded his commanding officer.

    The SEAL witnesses testified Gallagher took drugs while in the field, specifically narcotics and amphetamines.

    One of his team even testified that he tried to damage Gallagher’s weapon to keep him from shooting civilians.

    How can the danger of a rogue soldier like Gallagher not be clear? This is not an isolated instance of poor judgement, this is habitual, criminal behaviour and the news media does a disservice by allowing Fox and Trump to frame it as otherwise.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  2nd December 2019

      Hang on though. He wasn’t convicted of any of those allegations? So how can he be punished for them?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  2nd December 2019

        Surely you know the old truism, even said by judges ..Even thought you have been found not guilty, it didnt mean you didnt do it.
        ‘ His trial included an unexpected confession from another medic who had been granted immunity, claiming he was the one who actually killed the victim”
        In other words it was a stitch up. Police here in NZ have derailed trials of other cops and other tricks.
        The Afghan investigation thing here , shows all these officers with collective amnesia

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  2nd December 2019

          Irrelevant. You cannot be held guilty until convicted and certainly not when charges have been dismissed by a court.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  2nd December 2019

            He was found guilty ! look it up , it wasnt for murder though. Charges ‘dismissed’
            which is when evidence isnt offered is a different thing again and that didnt happen for his trial charges.
            “Gallagher was acquitted on six of seven charges on July 2, 2019; the jury found him guilty of the seventh charge,”

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  2nd December 2019

              Tosh. He was found guilty of posing for a photo. Not guilty of everything else. Stop the b.s.

  4. Corky

     /  2nd December 2019

    Mt Egmont no more. European culture continues to be subjugated. Sounds familiar. Weren’t Maori saying the same thing happened to them?

    At the time critics said this would happen. They were right.

    ”1 day ago – The dual legal name for Mt Egmont, Mt Taranaki will change as the negotiations between the eight tribes of Taranaki and the Crown draws ..”

    The link wasn’t working.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  2nd December 2019

      That’s fair enuf. The mountain already had a name – Taranaki. There’s no reason why it should continue be called Mt Egmont after the pommy 1st Lord of the Admiralty because Cook renamed it without checking with the locals first.

      I wonder if volcanologists will still call it the Egmont Volcano. That ought to change as well.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  2nd December 2019

        Maori had a name for it..European didn’t. I believe Wellington is next on the hit list. I would assume you have no problem with that?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  2nd December 2019

          Depends. I sometimes take issue with suggested city or town name changes. My view on those is that if that the settlers built a substantial town for themselves near a pa or smaller Maori settlement they could validly call the town whatever they like. And the native settlement could continue to be called its name. I think that’s happened with a lot of what are now suburbs with Maori names.

          Likewise if an administrative region is bigger than, or not the same as, an iwi or hapu rohe there’s case for keeping a settler name.

          Wellington started out as just Port Nicholson.

          But a massive stand-alone mountain with an existing name ought to keep its original name.

          With harbours, we Pakeha have a tendency to call it after the city it’s adjacent to & that its port services. So I have no problem with dual names for those – e.g. Wellington Harbour / Whanganui-a-Tara.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  2nd December 2019

          Maori had a name for it..European didn’t.

          So … what would you like to see Ngauruhoe, Tongariro & Ruapehu alternatively named so that Europeans can feel at more at home with them too?

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  2nd December 2019

            No, because NZ has moved on with a shared culture( although many Maori won’t rest until Maori have complete control of NZ.) When Egmont was named there was no shared history. Plus European of the time wouldn’t have been the slightest bit interested in respecting Maori culture.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  2nd December 2019

              In fact they were interested and respectful, as contemporary accounts (i.e. historical accounts written at the time) demonstrate.

          • Gezza

             /  2nd December 2019

            That’s way too contrived an argument to stand for me, Corks. No European settlers renamed Ngauruhoe, Tongariro & Ruapehu when they first saw them, way before we had whatever it is you are calling a “shared culture”. They obviously just found out their Maori names & used them. Which is what by far the great majority of residents of Taranaki, where I was born & grew up, now do, because they think it’s daft to have two names for a bloody mountain that already had a name.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  2nd December 2019

              ”That’s way too contrived an argument to stand for me.”

              I don’t see it that way.

              ”Because they think it’s daft to have two names for a bloody mountain that already had a name.”

              In reality it has only been called one name for years. Nothing more needed to be done. But ( remember I couldn’t access the link) Maori(?) or the powers that be had to resurrect the`issue as totem to show European need to get in line with the new way of doing things. Maori rule in education, government organisations and councils.

            • Gezza

               /  2nd December 2019

              Following an agreement between Ngā Iwi o Taranaki and the Crown as a result of Treaty of Waitangi negotiations related to the mountain, the names Mt Egmont and Egmont National Park will be consigned to the scrap heap.

              The national park will instead be known as Te Papakura o Taranaki.

              The name changes were first mooted last year by Ngā Iwi o Taranaki lead negotiator Jamie Tuuta when he provided an update on the negotiations, which began in March 2017.

              On Sunday, Tuuta confirmed all the names associated with Taranaki Maunga will have Māori names under the new legislation, which is expected to be come into effect next year, Te Ao Māori News reported.

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117865581/egmont-out-taranaki-maunga-in-agreement-reached-on-mountain-name-change

              Ah … well that’s more than just dropping the dual name & will likely make things more contentious, if also calling it Taranaki National Park is verboten, but that’s what it basically still is. And if any European settlements are to get renamed.

            • Gezza

               /  2nd December 2019

              I would just note, though, that stuff is taking their story from Te Ao Maori News, which is pitched at a Maori readership, so I’ll be interested to see if, for example, it’ll be Taranaki Maunga / Mount Taranaki when the government announces the final details. Also whether the NZ Geographic Board will be naming it Taranaki Maunga or Mt Taranaki on their map updates.

  5. Corky

     /  2nd December 2019

    I love this. A third of Aussie doctors give their patients placebos. Whaaat! That’s blatant quackery. How can they pan homeopathy,yet give something that doesn’t work to their patients? Of course these doctors aren’t fools – the body usually resolves 80% of illnesses.

    But that’s not the point. Quacks get shit for their supposed quack medicines. But doctors get a free ride?

    Let’s see what Griff and Kitty have to say about this. They support such quackery..so they need to explain themselves. 😊

    In fact on second thoughts, let’s just have Griff stand up for ‘SCIENCE.’ Kitty becomes confused quite easily.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-02/australian-gps-doctors-admit-prescribing-placebo-drugs/11746128

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  2nd December 2019

      Placebos do work ….. you do need to do some research…. thats why real drugs are always tested against them.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  2nd December 2019

        But how, Duker? How can nothing affect the the physical world? How can nothing heal. That’s what science tells us about homeopathy. It’s bs because some of the potencies are considered the equivalent to diluting one drop in the ocean

        I know what placebos are. You tell me what you think they are!

        Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  2nd December 2019

      More stupid lies and gratuitous insults; hardly a surprise from Corky, the YNZ liar.

      I have never said any such thing, of course; it’s another total lie in a long series. I am not remotely in favour of quack medicine; Corky is the one who goes in for such things as inhaling carbon monoxide and denying the efficacy of vaccination.

      I have never supported Australian doctors giving patients placeboes; this is another lie. It’s the first I’ve heard of it. I don’t ‘need to explain myself’ for something that’s totally false and has been attributed to me.

      Corky is the one who is confused; one minute he’s supporting the idea that the body heals 80% of its illnesses and the next calling people who treat illnesses with placeboes quacks ! He also seems to think that people won’t know when they’re being lied about. They do, of course. People know that they have said nothing remotely like that.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  2nd December 2019

        The headline is very misleading and the story not as Corky makes it out to be, of course.

        Reply
    • Griff.

       /  2nd December 2019

      Dr probably prescribe placebos when they know whatever the problem is will heal itself and the drugs they have available. are not going to help. Placebos are great for making the hypochondriacs relax and feel better and can even help around 20 to 30% of the time .
      In fact a lot of doctors used to proscribe antibiotics as a placebo for a cold. Dr’s know it would have no effect on a virus but it made the patent feel like they were doing something.
      Duker is right the placebo effect is real and is controlled for in drug trails .

      By the way corky you have no idea at all about almost every thing .
      Cloudbusting, magic water, coldal silver and a lot of other crap you push are examples of you being easily sucked in by snake oil salesmen,

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  3rd December 2019

        Colloidal silver was debunked years ago as quackery.

        If cloudbusters work, it’s very selfish of the owners not to use them to help firemen during forest fires.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  3rd December 2019

        ”By the way corky you have no idea at all about almost every thing .
        Cloudbusting, magic water, coldal silver and a lot of other crap you push are examples of you being easily sucked in by snake oil salesmen,”

        Just what I wanted to hear. First you missed the point..because you are blind to the point I was making. Second you descended into nasty invective, A true scientist does not do that.

        And to make matters worse for you, your mate thinks Colloidal Silver was debunked years ago. As I write this a district district nurse is just applying silver lined dressings to my rellies leg wounds. My how things have changed. Maybe you need to change too..maybe go back to school and get educated? Just a thought

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  3rd December 2019

          ”Cloudbusting, magic water, coldal silver and a lot of other crap you push are examples of you being easily sucked in by snake oil salesmen”

          I don’t push anything. I just like to rattle rusted cages; provide unknown alternatives and test for ignorance and bias. I doubt the three people who read my posts are interested in changing their lifestyle by trying my suggestions. I mean..what use would Gezza have for a cloud buster? Oh, hold on. What if the stream started to run low?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  3rd December 2019

            I’d just wait for the next rainy day, Corks.
            Wouldn’t mind a wind buster though.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              Colloidal silver is claimed to cure such varied illnesses as colds, cancer and AIDS and is a heavy metal that’s been banned in the US, Canada and Australia. because its claims are unproved and it can be dangerous.

              If one of Corky’s rellies (and these are legion) is having silver dressings applied by a nurse, this will be antiseptic silver, not colloidal. They are not the same thing.

              The FDA is only one organisation to debunk and condemn colloidal silver.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              One of many organisations

            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              One thing I dislike is ill-informed people commenting on things they no nothing about. Kitty fits that description. If she knew any thing about the topic see would know the FDA used to have a benign approach to CS, even though they never recommended its use. Obviously pressure has been applied to them recently. When I wrote to them 10 years ago, they conceded they did not have one case of an adverse affect from CS.

              The argyria cases are caused by using salts and drinking humongous amounts of the stuff..one guy drunk 1 litre a day for years. What the hell do you expect? Bad homemade stuff is another problem.

              Best to listen to people who know what they are talking about.

              Quote:

              ”Several studies have revealed that colloidal silver is also a great antiseptic that works to heal cuts, abrasions, and wounds. It helps the skin develop its healthiest form without destroying tissue cells. … Major hospital burn units use colloidal silver bandages and ointments.”

              😊

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              Why have other countries banned it ?

              You are confusing antiseptic silver with colloidal silver.

              Which major hospitals use colloidal silver ? Who did these studies ?

            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              Sometimes the fog is hard to penetrate.

              ”Several studies have revealed that ****colloidal silver**** is also a great antiseptic that works to ***heal cuts, abrasions, and wounds.***”

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  4th December 2019

            The FDA banned its sales over the counter 20 years ago.

            No reputable source claims that it’s beneficial, and I can’t imagine any hospital using it.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              Who did these studies ? Hospitals ? Universities ?

              Simply repeating that ‘several studies’ have said this tells one nothing. If the studies are not specified and we don’t know who did them, the statement that colloidal silver does these things is meaningless. So is the one about the hospitals if no hospital is actually named.

              Repeating something like a stuck record doesn’t make it true if nothing is given to prove the claim.

  6. Corky

     /  2nd December 2019

    New One News political poll tonight. If Kid Raptor hasn’t got a clear advantage..well let’s no go there.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  2nd December 2019

      Kid Raptor holds on. 13% undecided. ACT steady. Maybe National needs to do some deals with the very minor parties. Labour still has a lot of ammo up their sleeve. They will now start to get nasty..as is the wont of your average socialist under pressure. KR will need to use such outburst to his advantage. Labour will have the whole Xmas break to stew in their own juices.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  2nd December 2019

        The Kid Raptor thing is wearing thin; goodness knows how many times we’ll have to hear it.

        Reply
  7. Reply
  8. Blazer

     /  3rd December 2019

    do tell….’But what is wrong with high pay for chief executives? First let’s look at the relationship of chief executive pay to success of the company.
    Roberts’ comparisons of chief executive compensation with the financial performance of New Zealand’s publicly listed companies has comes up with some interesting findings – the best performing companies had the lowest-paid chief executives.’

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117883071/its-time-to-shake-off-the-culture-that-accepts-bosses-being-paid-millions

    Reply
  9. Reply
  10. Corky

     /  3rd December 2019

    Mikey applying the hurt this morning. Gun violence stats, Megan Wood’s Dashboard for housing that has been quietly put up, gun advocates explaining what the data breach means in reality etc.

    Suddenly things are going bad for the government.

    Reply
  11. Gezza

     /  3rd December 2019

    More fun with Google Translate, Maori to English, & shows the pitfalls of relying only on GT …

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117851094/traditional-santa-returns-to-nelson-santa-parade-as-does-hana-kk

    Copy & paste Hana Kōkō into Google Translate.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  3rd December 2019

      The people who said that the objections to him were racist were missing the point; Santa Claus is a character who wears a particular costume, has a long white beard and white hair. His race needn’t be an issue, but if the character’s not in costume, he’s not Santa Claus.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  3rd December 2019

      Well, no worries – this time, he was in character. But I wouldn’t recommend kids checking whether Hana Kōkō means Santa Claus on Google Translate !

      Somebody should get them to fix this one ! 😐

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  3rd December 2019

      Some things might just be better not to try & transliterate.

      What’s wrong with Santa Claus just being Santa Claus, in whatever language – elderly, jolly & in a red suit, dispensing gifts to the kids who’ve been good, whatever skin colour you have, if you celebrate Christmas?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  3rd December 2019

        Nothing at all; his skin is irrelevant. The costume, though, must be standard.

        It would have been all right had he not been presented as Santa; a Pakeha dressed in clothes that were nothing like the trad ones would also have been wrong.

        I saw a man with magnificent white hair and a big white beard in the supermarket; he could have played the part without the need for a wig and false beard.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  3rd December 2019

          ??? I asked GT to translate Hana Koko and they said Blood Work.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  3rd December 2019

            Hello, Corky.

            It did it again just now.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  3rd December 2019

              Koko is a Japanese name, so I asked it to translate it from Japanese; it said ‘Hana here.’

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  3rd December 2019

              GT is an idiot; the ones it gave you are so different that they can’t both be right.

          • Gezza

             /  3rd December 2019

            Yeah, I know, it’s odd. But you typed Hana Koko, not Hana Kōkō’ – you missed off macrons off the two ō’s. With Maori selected:

            Hana koko brings up ‘make blood’.

            Hana Koko translates as “Make a Blood”.

            hana koko shows “blood work”

            hana kōkō gives ‘do the opposite’

            Hana Kōkō, for some weird reason, is still translating as ‘Sexual Abuse’. It was doing that a day or 2 ago when I first tried it.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  3rd December 2019

              GT is an idiot; the ones it gave you are so different that they can’t both be right.

              No, it’s not. It’s actually slowly improving. It sometimes does better with phrases, & sometimes with single words it gives you a drop down list.

              It’s still in its baby stages. It’s a huge ask for an automated translator like GT to be able to handle entire vocabularies & different language syntaxes & give intelligent sentences for translations.

              Apart from macrons making completely different words from others of the same spelling, Maori has many words spelt the same way which have different meanings, depending on the context of the sentence, or another word or phrase that its always paired with.

              It’ll get better over time as they modify the algorithms & it can remember & find whole phrases & sentences. There was a short item on TV1 news a few months back where a Maori language expert & Google Translate dude were talking about the project they & a team of fluent Maori speakers will be doing to add to, refine, & improve its translation capacity.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  4th December 2019

        GT is often inaccurate in other languages, giving a translation that bears no resemblance to reality. It’s better to have a good dictionary and DIY.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  4th December 2019

          It certainly is, & the more familiar you are with another language & its vocab & structure the easier it is to see when it’s incorrect – which is still pretty much probably more often than not. But I have no doubt it’ll get better over time – unless it gets completely eclipsed by some whole new technological /AI development.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  4th December 2019

            If you want to know how good a translation service is, put in something you know well and see if it does it right.

            GT has failed this test with languages I know, so I wouldn’t trust it with those I don’t know.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              No, I wouldn’t trust it with any language I don’t know either.

              It can’t even be trusted with French, which I took to 6th form level. It was so long ago & I’ve never used it since so I’ve forgotten most of the vocabulary & wouldn’t even attempt a basic conversation in it any more.

              But I have sometimes popped the occasional English sentence into GT & have retained enuf knowledge of French to be able to then recognise & remember the words, replace some with better ones, quickly correct the grammar, & use a final correct sentence or two in an email.

              Maori language syntax is completely different from English & any of the European languages. But I gather there are basic rules & exceptions. I’ve seen it claimed it’s actually simpler & easier to learn than a European language if you don’t try & analyse its structure by comparing it to those.

  12. CON + LDEM should work? If they can work together.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  3rd December 2019

      Wheres the reason those numbers say ‘hung parliament’
      With all seats being FPP that turkey aint going to fly
      YouGov poll last week , based on the same methods they used in 2017 of a very large selection of votes was able to closely predict the final result then.

      essentially its a junk story from twitter

      Reply
  13. sorry, cant add to Open forum 3/12 🙂

    Reply
  14. ODT is copping a lot of flak on twitter for this cartoon:

    I understand the case for cartoonist independence but this cartoon shouldn’t have been allowed to get through, it’s in very poor taste.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  3rd December 2019

      Another of the chronically offended on behalf of others. I doubt offence was meant. Some may argue insensitivity…but when you have no emotional capital in a situation, you see the situation in more black and white terms.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  3rd December 2019

        Sita Leota that is.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  3rd December 2019

          Well, PG obviously finds it offensive as well, & if I’d been the editor, & it was run past me before publication, I’d have said no too. We have a large Samoan population; there are a lot of very, very sick kids in Samoa, & the death toll is an ongoing, gut-wrenching, national tragedy.

          While I can see the funny side of it, & it might work as a quick quip in a stand up routine in some place very far removed from here, the Measles outbreak in Samoa (or one with fatalities anywhere) is just not really something to make light of.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  3rd December 2019

            I don’t find it offensive…more inappropriate. But you must remember you are looking at things from an older persons point of view. Younger folk couldn’t give a fug..yep, even those who feign mock offence to bolster their ego and political
            views on life.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  3rd December 2019

              I don’t find it offensive…more inappropriate

              That’s fair enuf. It’s actually a more accurate description for me too. If I’d been the editor I’d have said no we’re not publishing that because it IS inappropriate. It’s an empathy issue I reckon. I’d imagine how funny that will seem to a parent, sibling, aunt, cousin, grandparent & other friends or family of someone who’s just lost a child to this disease. It’s offensive because it could cause them tremendous pain & anger that someone thinks a measles outbreak is funny. So I wouldn’t run it.

    • Southern journalists have expressed their annoyance.

      Reply
    • ‘Most popular’ at ODT onlune currently: Apology for cartoon

      Today the Otago Daily Times published a cartoon making reference to the measles crisis in Samoa.
      The content and the timing of the cartoon were insensitive, and we apologise without reservation for publishing it.

      We have published many stories about the human suffering caused by the outbreak. They are stories not about a virus, they are stories of real people, real hurt, and real tragedy.

      This should have been our starting point when considering publishing the cartoon. That it was not was a deeply regrettable error in judgement.

      We will review our selection process. It must be robust. Our community expects no less.

      Barry Stewart, editor

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/apology-cartoon

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  4th December 2019

        I’m not surprised. This one would have been considered grossly insensitive by a lot of people who wouldn’t come into Corky’s category of “the chronically offended”. And in answer to Corky above, a look at the Twitter reactions suggests a fairly broad spread of ages of those who found it objectionable.

        There’s something in what duperez says below too, though. This cartoon even got shown on 1News at 6 last night. Why?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  4th December 2019

          🤔 Actually, it might have been TV3. Ma & I took the rare step of watching the 6pm Newshub news instead of 1News at 6 last night. Don’t think we’ll bother again – don’t really like their format. Might be ok for Aucklanders who don’t know any better.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  4th December 2019

            News is an identity commodity for their target demographic…. young reporters looking at things young woman are doing….every live report has to feature at least one young womans response to a tradgedy/triumph/ well I never event.

            A cartoon can be mocked since its one of those ‘do they still have it’ objects of curiosity from the past, not at all like ‘Viral’ which might be the same themes, but its OK because its what young people do. Indeed they have a slot for something of that genre almost every day because ‘mirroring your viewers’ is how to build viewer loyalty.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              I can’t imagine how anyone could be crass enough to make this cartoon in the first place, with 60 people dying of this disease.

              There’s nothing funny about dead babies.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              Well, I have seen two dead babies in reality and didn’t find them amusing, and can’t imagine making jokes about what killed them.

    • Gezza

       /  4th December 2019

      The shit is really hitting the fan now. Sackings are being demanded.

      A visibly upset Otago Daily Times editor was heckled over a decision to publish a cartoon about the Samoan measles epidemic.

      Dozens of protesters – many demanding the resignations of cartoonist Garrick Tremain and editor Barry Stewart – gathered outside the ODT’s building in central Dunedin on Wednesday afternoon.

      The newspaper has been heavily criticised for running the Samoa cartoon by Tremain in print on Tuesday, with nearly 50 protesters gathering outside the newspaper’s Dunedin office on Wednesday to hear “Samoan lives matter”.

      The Samoan Government has completely shutdown its private sector following the deaths of 60 people there, most of whom were children.

      Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said she was “horrified” by the cartoon.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117920163/samoa-cartoon-labelled-extremely-appalling-by-race-relations-commissioner

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  4th December 2019

        ”A visibly upset Otago Daily Times editor.”

        He should say ”I made a decision” I stand by that. Now fug off..and get a job.

        And as for the Race Relations Commissioner. My suggestion to him is be quiet. You are living on grace.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  4th December 2019

        “Stewart confirmed the newspaper’s editorial executives were reviewing their policies and would not run cartoons by Tremain while a review was under way.”

        That crowd was pretty abusive. Stewart probably needed those two big bodyguards in the video clip at the end. And Tremain’s possibly cooked his goose with that embedded RNZ interview.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  4th December 2019

          60 people have died; in round figures, that’s the equivalent of 1500 Kiwis.

          I doubt if Tremain would have expected people to laugh at an epidemic that claimed the lives of 60 Kiwis here, let alone 1500.

          The apology seemed to be a gee, I’m sorry of anyone was offended…..one.

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  4th December 2019

          I found the protesters reasonable. However, if they were blocking the entrance and causing disruption ( I don’t know) to the newspaper functioning…they should have been warned first then battoned for no compliance if necessary. They however have every right to protest outside the building.

          I liked Termains NSR interview. I think he came across in a reasoned acerbic manner, although I find it hard to believe he didn’t think it would cause offence. He is typical of that European ilk age group.

          The editor needs to resign. He acted like a weasel and didn’t protect his staff. I think both he and Tremain will be history, and that’s sad. Should that happened, they have been bullied out of a job.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  4th December 2019

            They haven’t been bullied; they deserve the criticism for mocking this tragedy.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  4th December 2019

            For the chronically offended..and those who believe the Samoan tragedy was mocked ( complete bs.). Here’s a repeat of the Tremain interview.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/first-up/audio/2018725300/cartoonist-not-sorry-for-measles-cartoon-labelled-as-racist

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th December 2019

              Too little, too late. He drew the cartoon; he thought it funny. He must have been aware of the 55 (then) deaths.

              The idea of batoning the protestors is very odd. They did nothing to deserve this, which is why it didn’t happen.

            • that was early today. Since then Tremain has apologised,

              and the ODT won’t publish any more of his cartoons pending a review.
              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/404792/odt-to-cease-publishing-cartoonist-s-work-during-review

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              They showed the cartoon on telly again tonite. It’s been reproduced in Stuff articles at least once again today, possibly more. I imagine it’s been shown in The Herald online. It’s probably on Facebook, all over Twitter, & still travelling the world, bouncing around the various social media, as we speak.

              The damn thing’s probably now been seen by more people than any other cartoon he’s ever done. In that RNZ interview (if it’s the same one in the Stuff article above, he was obdurate & unrepentant.

              To say as he did in that interview that he keeps up with the news, but that he had no idea that so many had died & were still dying from measles in Samoa, & follow that with “what’s wrong with it?- the cartoon hasn’t killed anybody” – “if anybody’s rung up personally offended, I’ve apologised to them personally” is so bloody tone deaf he’s just asking for a hammering.

              The qualified apology he later posted was too little too late.

              It’s not surprising the ODT is now in major damage control mode.

            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              Here’s some more cartoons that have sent people over the edge. I find them funny..and stabbing at the heart of an issue. Maybe that’s where I part company with most people.

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117922411/cartoonist-garrick-tremains-controversial-samoa-cartoon-not-the-first-to-be-criticised

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              You are an anonymous keyboard warrior hard-arse persona with the handle Corky on a tiny but generally tasteful & respectful blog on the internet. You can say whatever wise, daft, tasteless, provocative, or other things you like here without having to consider the potential impact on yourself, your business, your family, your work colleagues, friends, or your job. That’s where you part company with Tremain & the ODT, never mind “other people”.

            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              ”You are an anonymous keyboard warrior hard-arse persona with the handle Corky on a tiny but generally tasteful & respectful blog on the internet.”

              True. But I have been in situations that have cost me both financially and socially. I will soon be involved a court case that may go countrywide.
              But fair enough. I guess that’s how you who see things.

              ”You can say whatever wise, daft, tasteless, provocative, or other things you like here without having to consider the potential impact on yourself, your business, your family, your work colleagues.”

              See above.

              ”That’s where you part company with Tremain & the ODT, never mind “other people”.”

              True, in this case. But I think it’s more a case of how we perceive reality and respecting how people are. Everyone sees things differently. What about all the people who couldn’t care less? Do they count?

              Let me explain: a couple of years ago you posted in the early morning something like this: ‘Dad died last night.’ Some of the regulars offered condolences etc. I thought..what! What are you doing blogging when your dad has died. Then I caught myself and said to myself. That’s what he wants to do..okay that’s cool. You received a huge amount of downticks for that post. Probably from other people who thought as I initially did.
              You then got a little mad and said something like: I don’t give a fug what they think.

              I’m afraid I don’t give a fug about people getting upset with:

              ”I asked what are the least popular spots at the moment. She said ”the ones people are picking up in Samoa at the moment.”

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              Well yes, I know that. Even I can see the funny side of it. But you’re saying the editor’s a weasel because he didn’t stick up for his Tremain. And I’m saying he isn’t – he’s recognised this one shouldn’t have been published because it would hurt & infuriate a helluva lot of people & now it’s caused a shit storm that could damage the paper. So he’s taken the best course of corrective action rather than inflame the situation & have advertisers pulling out & an ongoing battle over a cartoon that would have made a lot of other editors probably go – “nuh-uh, not this one”. Not right now, anyway.

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              PS: You received a huge amount of downticks for that post. Probably from other people who thought as I initially did.

              I found that post. It wasn’t a big thing. I just let people know dad had died. 3 posters I often had social chats with here offered condolences & they were thanked.

              It got 7 upticks, 3 downticks – followed by another brief reply from me to someone’s condolences, that also got 7 upticks, & 2 downticks

              And a further PS to that one – saying not to worry, I wasn’t bothered about any downticks as there are wankers everywhere & it’s obvious some of them visit YNZ – got 5 up, 2 down.

              The poor condolence-givers got a couple of downticks for their brief posts too.

              How has that morphed into the “huge number of downticks” for that post that you now recall and how many more of your tales of recalled situations you regularly regale us with involve as falsely embellished memories as that?

            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              It was long ago. I remembered 27 downticks. I must have been mistaken.

              ”How has that morphed into the “huge number of downticks” for that post that you now recall and how many more of your tales of recalled situations you regularly regale us with involve as falsely embellished memories as that?”

              That’s a big and unreasonable jump to make. I think I more than back up what I say. In fact more than I should have to. I just enjoy the challenge.

              And my predictions have been reasonably spot on. I don’t find you or anyone else putting their balls on the line like me. Hard to embellish a prediction.

              Why not post the comments just to fill in my faulty memory.

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              That’s a big and unreasonable jump to make. I think I more than back up what I say. In fact more than I should have to. I just enjoy the challenge.

              And my predictions have been reasonably spot on. I don’t find you or anyone else putting their balls on the line like me. Hard to embellish a prediction.

              27 downticks was a big & unreasonable jump to make. And you did it so emphatically. Your tales of events involving you are & your targets of scorn often are impossible to verify, as you know.

              Why not post the comments just to fill in my faulty memory.

              Why? Do you think I’m lying?

            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              Why the angst?

              ”27 downticks was a big & unreasonable jump to make. And you did it so emphatically.”

              Yes, that’s what I remember. However, I may be wrong. I don’t take blogging as seriously as you. That you found the posts I find fascinating.
              Mind you, a little kudos for me. How many other people remember those posts?

              ”Your tales of events involving you are & your targets of scorn often are impossible to verify, as you know.”

              OK, no more supposed tales. Besides, sometimes I think I inadvertently
              post more than I should.

              ”Why not post the comments just to fill in my faulty memory.”
              ”Why? Do you think I’m lying.”

              No. Besides, you would be far to sly to open yourself up like that.

              But post them anyway. It won’t be the last time I have egg on my face.
              Although, when you think about it, in the scheme of things, it’s such a trifle you have latched onto. The jist of my recollection was reasonably accurate.

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              Why the angst?

              Not angst. It sounded like fake news, & it was something I could quickly & easily verify.

              ”27 downticks was a big & unreasonable jump to make. And you did it so emphatically.”
              Yes, that’s what I remember. However, I may be wrong. I don’t take blogging as seriously as you. That you found the posts I find fascinating.

              Why? It only took a few minutes to find them.

              Mind you, a little kudos for me. How many other people remember those posts?

              Why would they? More interesting is why you did, how you got it so wrong, WHY you got it so wrong, & why it’s even relevant to this Tremain cartoon that was clearly going to offend people because it made light of a tragedy. Did you think I posted it to make people laugh?

              ”Your tales of events involving you & your targets of scorn often are impossible to verify, as you know.”
              OK, no more supposed tales. Besides, sometimes I think I inadvertently post more than I should.

              Your call. We both prefer to remain anonymous.

              ”Why not post the comments just to fill in my faulty memory.”
              ”Why? Do you think I’m lying.”
              No. Besides, you would be far to sly to open yourself up like that. But post them anyway. It won’t be the last time I have egg on my face.

              I’m not sly. I’m generally pretty straight up with what I post here, except when I’m making an obvious joke.

              Although, when you think about it, in the scheme of things, it’s such a trifle you have latched onto. The jist of my recollection was reasonably accurate.

              I didn’t latch on to this trifle. You did. And the jist of your recollection is completely wrong. What on earth prompted you to throw this one in? Some might even think it’s a bit creepy. It’s not relevant to the Tremain cartoon situation. Nobody thought it was a joke.

  15. duperez

     /  3rd December 2019

    Plenty want to say how offensive it is and that it shouldn’t have been published. And reproduce it and publish it to reach a massively greater audience.

    The MSM clapping their hands for the controversy.

    Reply
  16. Griff.

     /  3rd December 2019

    For those tldr .
    legal to grow 2 plants and posses up to 14 grams for own use.
    No use in public.
    Regulated sale r 20 .
    If caught supplying to minors up to 4 years jail $150,000 fine.
    No advertising .
    Dedicated outlets only .
    Allowance for cannabis cafes .
    Restrictions on potency .
    Fully traced and documented supply chain
    levy to fully or partly funding cannabis harm reduction
    activities.

    Proposed act here
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2019-12/Cannabis%20Legalisation%20and%20Control%20Bill.pdf

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  3rd December 2019

      In other words…unenforceable legislation. Better off not legalising . It will be interesting to note how the gangs will react. My guess is growers are going to be taxed..a little like the American ”protection” racket.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  4th December 2019

        Mikey and Mark Mitchell ripped Stuart Nash apart on a variety of issues. The minister became vaguer as the interview proceeded.

        One thing of interest: Mikey asked ”why are we comparing proposed cannabis constraints
        with the regulated alcohol market, given the latter has been a disaster for young people.

        Why indeed. Another reason this government has to go.

        Reply
      • Duker

         /  4th December 2019

        “In other words…unenforceable legislation.”
        Who knew we had a QC giving her considered advice ?
        I wont be voting for it , but it wont be because of the technicalities of amounts and locations

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  4th December 2019

          ”Who knew we had a QC giving her considered advice ?”

          Crikey, if you think we need a QC to see the obvious..may I suggest you stop commenting because you are out of your league.😊

          Let’s take two examples for you to work your way through.

          1- Regulated sale r 20. So, an 18 year old on the piss is going to take notice of that? Oh, you mean commercial outlets. No problem…big bro will buy me some stash. Or maybe I’ll get false ID.

          2- Restrictions on potency . Ah, huh? Good luck with that. But let’s say we are successful in cracking down on potency – what will come next? Yes, a thriving black market for high potency weed. The type of weed NZers have been brought up on. It would be liking trading beautiful full cream milk for that watery crap dietitians used to say was good for you.

          Now, tell us, Duker..why won’t you be voting for this legislation? It’s not cool for a socialist not to be voting for turning South Auckland into a war zone. Ditto, the East Coast and Northland and those ferals in Gore ( damn bad place at the moment).

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  4th December 2019

            Libertarianism (from Latin: libertas, meaning “freedom”), or libertarism (from French: libertaire, meaning “libertarian”), is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association and individual judgement.

            Here with have someone who claims to be a libertarian who wants to lock up people for their choice in recreational drugs.
            Corky is not a libertarian .
            He does not even know what the word means .
            Corky is a Conservative Authoritarian Follower.

            Conservative . Against change .
            Authoritarian. The state to use force against anything he sees as wrong .
            Follower . Because he will follow anyone no matter how idiotic if he thinks they will advance his political goals. = Trumpie

            As for the rest of his gibbering
            Not even worth addressing being empty garbage from his overactive imagination.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  4th December 2019

              I whole lot of invective. No discussion on the issue of course.

              You are either thick, or you are being wilfully ignorant. One of the two; maybe both?

              ”Here with have someone who claims to be a libertarian.”

              Correct. And I have stated numerous times on this blog that If I voted, I would vote for legalisation. Nobody who claims to be a Libertarian can do
              anything different but vote yes.

              ”Corky is a Conservative Authoritarian Follower.”

              No. You are. A conservative science believer who is still stuck in Newtonian physics mode. Terrified he may drop of the end of the world if he investigates anything he doesn’t understand. A true flat earther.

              I would vote yes to legalisation of cannabis because it’s the morally correct thing to do. No one has the right to tell others how to live their lives…except, it would seem, you and your socialist mates.

              All I’m doing is pointing out the pitfalls of legalisation. Of course, none of the negatives need come to pass if we had a decent police force and tough criminal laws. But we don’t . So welcome to the Wild West.

              With freedom comes responsibilities..and that ain’t going to happen under Andrew Little and his hopeless government

  17. Corky

     /  3rd December 2019

    Just saw the saddest thing on Seven Sharp. A school teacher rep who was trying to explain how they want to use force before constraint. Even PC Hillary Barrie asked her to clarify, using an example of a real case of a kid throwing scissors at a teacher. Barrie asked if the teacher in that situation would be able to drag the child outside. The rep responded with”I don’t like the word, drag – words to that affect. She talked of force as maybe a ‘guiding hand on the leg.’😂

    What the fug is this country coming to? Drag the little ferals outside, strap them six times. That’s real force. It’s worked in the past, it will work again in the future.

    Reply
  18. Corky

     /  4th December 2019

    China leads the world in birthing 1984. Russia has followed demanding all computers in Russia are loaded with Russian software.

    The irony here is China provides western privacy seekers with phones not loaded with the ‘clipper chip.’ or its equivalent.

    How long before Western powers can’t help themselves and follow suit? Not long. But first, they want a cashless society. From that point,1984 will follow smoothly.

    Reply
  19. There’s a delightfully written column in today’s Grauniad, written by Marina Hyde:

    “Trump used his impromptu press conference to stress his blissful unfamiliarity with a great number of things. Appearance-wise, the US president’s lips are a sort of pouting anus – a mouth sphincter which today emitted a roll-call of guys and stuff he didn’t know.

    Take Prince Andrew. “I don’t know Prince Andrew,” Trump sighed with a moue, despite there being significant photographic evidence to the contrary. “But it’s a tough story. But I don’t know him.”

    Or take Labour’s leader, Jeremy Corbyn. “I know nothing about the gentleman,” Trump shrugged, having very recently described the Labour leader as “so bad for your country”, warning he’d “take you in such a bad way”. None of that today. “Really. I know nothing about him,” he said.

    Or take the notion that Trump thought the NHS was on the table in a future trade deal between the UK and US. “I don’t even know where that rumour started,” mused the president, who used his state visit in June to tell the massed TV cameras, “When you’re dealing in trade, everything is on the table.”

    Today the president was pushing a line that sounded distinctly like it had been crayoned on to giant cue cards held aloft by the Conservative campaign team…”

    And so it goes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/03/smug-in-the-west-but-even-the-tories-steer-clear-of-trump-at-nato

    Reply
    • Yep, nothing worse than a Liberal Conservative who can’t write.

      https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/marina-the-potty-mouthed-toff/

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  4th December 2019

        When I got up early this morning Ajazeera was showing the Press Conference with NATO head Jens Stoltenberg & Trump live, & the wide-ranging Q&A session that followed it. I only watched for a short time because Trump’s constant blithering includes so many ignorant remarks & outright obvious lies it’s too frustrating to sit thru the lot trying to spot the few things he says that are actually true & important to know.

        There are major problems with Turkey’s President demanding that his NATO allies support him & his attacks on the Kurdish YPG, & declare them as terrorists. And they don’t see them as such. Trump now seems to, or not, he blithered about it.

        At some later point Macron & he were together & he was busy insulting Macron in that off-hand casual way he does, paying him back for saying NATO was now lacking a brain with not enuf agreement on its policies & priorities & threats or whatever.

        Trump’s got a good point about NATO countries not paying their way, but today he was saying they should be adding up the shortfall every year & paying it to the US. I feel sorry for any NATO Head of State having to sit up there with Trump while he rambles on, insulting them all, & constantly talking so much shite in between digs.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  4th December 2019

          “Trump’s got a good point about NATO countries not paying their way, but today he was saying they should be adding up the shortfall every year & paying it to the US.”

          This seems more than reasonable.

          ” I feel sorry for any NATO Head of State having to sit up there with Trump while he rambles on, insulting them all, & constantly talking so much shite in between digs.”

          Seems very insulting to the US for these European countries to sign up to a defense pack, then freeload on the responsibilities. They have been perfectly happy to let the US carry the weight for decades.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  4th December 2019

            I imagine that problem has partly arisen because the US has tended to WANT to be wherever they’ve put their bases & paying for everything themselves has just always been done.

            Since the collapse of the USSR, & the rise of Middle Eastern & other conflicts, & the global terrorism threat to Western countries – exacerbated by their being responsible for and/or killing Muslims – the various parties no longer all have the same perceptions of who are their greatest threats.

            Also, the European countries have let their defence industries run down in comparison because the US has been happy to provide the mainstay of their forces.

            They’re now in a situation where Erdogan is saying the NATO pact countries are pledged to jointly fight anyone who attacks any one of them, so why aren’t they supporting Turkey against the Kurdish forces?

            Trump’s confusing the hell out of them because he often seems to saying why is Russia the enemy – and they’re having to accommodate the US insisting that, globally, China is.

            It’s all getting very messy.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  4th December 2019

              Why is Russia the enemy?

            • Gezza

               /  4th December 2019

              Dunno. Possibly because the Western European members & Eastern former Soviet Bloc states are still nervous that Russia could try to destabilise and/or invade to grab them as defence buffers.

              The situation with the Russian seizure of Crimea, their ongoing separatist proxy border war with Ukraine, & their involvement in the breakaway of South Ossetia & extension of Russian citizenship to many of their citizens probably makes them wary about taking the brakes off.

              And of course at the same time it feeds the Russian narrative that the Western Europeans are ringing Russia & constantly threatening it, as they’ve done for a century or more.

          • Duker

             /  4th December 2019

            US spends so much on defence than it’s NATO partners for different reasons .
            It has a very expensive nuclear triad, submarine launched missiles AND long range bombers AND land based missiles. England and France only have the sub launched missiles. Germany only has short range attack planes and borrows US nuclear bombs.
            As well US has decided to have Global reach, stocking up for Japan AND S Korea, not NATO’s problem.
            And for US NATO was a way for it’s defence to be conducted on NATO territory if it came to war, a more expensive way to have your soldiers and air Force forward deployed there but an upside when it came to any battles.
            Isolation and saving money with a home based defence ended at Pearl Harbor and isn’t coming back in spite of Trump’s comments. Of course the other extreme was Vietnam , jumping in on every country conflict as your own

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  4th December 2019

              “Germany only has short range attack planes and borrows US nuclear bombs.”

              They have to borrow the planes too.

              Only 4 Eurofighters are currently in a flightworthy state. The other 124 are grounded.

              None of their submarines are operational either, and it’s the same across the entire military. Germany is the largest economy in Europe and it has not military capacity of any worth. In a few years, the Australians will be spending more, and have a far more effective capacity for the money.

            • Duker

               /  4th December 2019

              US has had a lot of issues with ‘mission worthy’ planes too, ships docked with no money for upgrades , a new aircraft carrier that wont be mission ready even after 5 years of testing.
              Eurofighters arent ‘wired’ to carry nuclear bombs for some obscure reasons, even though they are the newest in fleet for Germany
              “It emerged in February [2019} that on average only 39 of Germany’s 128 Eurofighter jets and 26 of its 93 older Tornado fighters were available for combat or training last year.”
              NZs Army cant event find its backside, let along secret reports in a safe ‘for security’.

    • Pink David

       /  4th December 2019

      “There’s a delightfully written column in today’s Grauniad, written by Marina Hyde:”

      The most delightful part is Marina used to be banging none other than Trumps BFF, Piers Morgan

      Reply
  20. Corky

     /  4th December 2019

    Faith in God rewarded? Surely it must have been millions? If so, Mikey called it months ago.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/117943776/israel-folau-and-rugby-australia-settle-their-legal-dispute-over-his-dismissal

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  4th December 2019

      If its more than $0.5 mill , id be surprised . Over that amount its cheaper to fight the case and Folau doesnt have the big money for any sort of legal talent, God hasnt been providing too well there. His dads garage church can get back to saving souls and burning sinners on facebook again.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  4th December 2019

        My guess is $3 million. I think both parties realised the longer this went on, the more both reputations would be damaged. I would have said, ‘3 million..take it or leave it..otherwise we fight to the end..and any money you gain will all be going on your lawyers fees.’

        I doubt $ 500.000 would keep Folau in the style he has become accustomed to.

        Reply
      • Blazer

         /  5th December 2019

        Be very surprised…reported as 8 million by the DT.

        Boyle should be sacked by ARU.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th December 2019

          Yep, just heard that on the radio. Peter Fitzsimmons ain’t too happy. I think Duker needs to see the light…and leave his heathen lifestyle behind.

          Reply

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