Open Forum – 5 December

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111 Comments

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  5th December 2019

      That sounds nothing like anything Cicero ever wrote, or would have thought.

      It doesn’t even make sense.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  5th December 2019

        It is a fake, like so many supposed quotes from famous people. It first appeared in 2012 and is probably from someone in the Occupy movement.

        As so often happens, the pudding has been over-egged in the hope of adding verisimilitude. No one who’s read the classics would believe it was genuine. It’s one of several fake Cicero quotes..

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  5th December 2019

      Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak.

      Marcus Tullius Cicero

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  5th December 2019

        The internet has endless false quotes that are obvious to anyone who knows the supposed speaker.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  5th December 2019

          It might have been more credible if it was written in Latin.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  5th December 2019

            Not if someone was trying to pass it off as being by Cicero !

            Pauperi laborant et laborant. ???

            Reply
  1. Reply
    • Gezza

       /  5th December 2019

      I think it’s pretty much done its dash & should nearly be time for (understandably) angry folk to accept that abject public apology from the Editor & let it go. It was a monumental screw-up, but everybody determined to show the cartoon over & over again to a wider & wider audience to drum up more rage against the paper needs to ask themselves why they are still doing it.

      If the answer is, to make them get rid of the stubbon & tone deaf & Garrick Tremain, whose claim he knew nothing about the scale of the tragedy occurring in Samoa & being widely reported in the msm every day until the day the cartoon was published was bizarre, & whose then saying that the cartoon hadn’t killed anybody only fuelled the fury, they might have suceeded.

      If they haven’t, they still might’ve managed to make his works for the ODT now subject to such an overly-cautious PC editorial vetting process, he loses interest & retires or starts posting them only on a shit-stirring blog with very few visitors these days or something.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  5th December 2019

      What you are seeing here is the death of democracy….trial by kangaroo court. Many of these people aren’t protesting.., they are demanding those found guilty by a small number of people who have made an effort to publicly express their opinion, have their lives destroyed completely.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  5th December 2019

        Death of democracy? Talk about OTT. This sort of reaction has gone on since forever when a paper publishes something ill-considered that infuriates readers.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th December 2019

          No, things have changed since the advent of global social media. Nothing OTT. Why do you think China and Russia are taking steps to limit power of social media?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  5th December 2019

            China & Russia (& Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, & lots other countries with totalitarian governments) have taken steps to limit the power of social media because they are shit scared that their citizens with the freedom to say so will criticise them, express views that they need to be got rid of, and that they should have the kind of freedom of speech to say so that we all enjoy & do every day.

            What’s happening here is that people are using their freedom of speech to tell the ODT & Tremain how furious they are. The ODT is having to think about whether they asked for that.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  5th December 2019

              If Tremain had no idea that 55 (then, 60 now) people had died during the epidemic, he must be the only person in NZ who didn’t know this. The story has been in papers and on the news almost every day. Does he not own a radio or television or read the papers ?

            • Gezza

               /  5th December 2019

              That’s why it was such a stupid thing to say. He said in the same RNZ interview it’s his job to keep up with the news so his cartoons are on current issues.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  5th December 2019

              Own goal to Garrick Tremain.

              I see that a Samoan undertaker is refusing to take any payment for the children’s funerals.

          • Corky

             /  5th December 2019

            ”China & Russia (& Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, & lots other countries with totalitarian governments) have taken steps to limit the power of social media because they are shit scared that their citizens with the freedom to say so will criticise them, express views that they need to be got rid of, and that they should have the kind of freedom of speech to say so that we all enjoy & do every day.”

            Spot on. And where social media has freedoms like in the West, it’s slowly taking on indirect powers like an in dependant state. It can apply huge pressure to companies, individuals and governments. Social media can destroy reputations by inference, sustained attack and political manipulation.

            ”What’s happening here is that people are using their freedom of speech to tell the ODT & Tremain how furious they are. The ODT is having to think about whether they asked for that.”

            Some are, but the majority in my opinion want to destroy what they don’t agree with. If they had the power they would want Tremain charged..and the ODT closed down. I would love to poll those protesting. I bet the majority would be Left of the political spectrum. And that’s what the Left have always had over Righties – a natural inbred talent for networking. Social media is a networkers dream.

            The worry for me is the large ( and lazy) silent majority have lost out to social trend setters on social media. And they have no one else to blame but themselves.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  5th December 2019

              Spot on. And where social media has freedoms like in the West, it’s slowly taking on indirect powers like an in dependant state. It can apply huge pressure to companies, individuals and governments. Social media can destroy reputations by inference, sustained attack and political manipulation.

              🤔 We’re talking about Trump now, right?

              the majority in my opinion want to destroy what they don’t agree with. If they had the power they would want Tremain charged..and the ODT closed down. I would love to poll those protesting. I bet the majority would be Left of the political spectrum. And that’s what the Left have always had over Righties – a natural inbred talent for networking. Social media is a networkers dream.

              I think you’re over-egging the pudding claiming the majority want to close down the ODT. A lot would probably be happy to see Tremain go. But they’re probably still mainly a minority of punters. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of those who went along to to protest are lefties, but these days youngstas across the political spectrum are happy to fire off criticisms and supporting tweets on Twitter.

              Young folk generally have a talent for networking & so do political parties & their supporters. They’re all into networking. Where did well-known phrases like “the old boys network” come from? Not from the left.

              The worry for me is the large ( and lazy) silent majority have lost out to social trend setters on social media. And they have no one else to blame but themselves.

              An equally big problem is those who’ve totally disconnected from the electoral process & for whatever reason just don’t vote. If they do that, & then hate the government they end up with more than one that could’ve been led by a different party, they have nobody else to blame but themselves.

      • lurcher1948

         /  5th December 2019

        60+ babies dead,there must be a cartoon here to upset the”woke”and ALL Samoans, but its free speech,Corky and peter williams(the voice of the national party)you know but there are consequences,the sack probably

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th December 2019

          Yes, Lurchy..you are SPOT on.

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th December 2019

          Kitty believes democracy is majority rules. She’s right…but why is she wrong in this case? Someone may like to enlighten her.

          Reply
          • I don’t need to be enlightened as to what democracy is and how it works. It’s obvious that hardly anyone found this cartoon which mocked an epidemic in which 53 babies have died amusing or acceptable. They said so. Even you (as well as wanting them to be warned and then batoned) admitted that the protestors were reasonable.

            The cartoonist has been stood down.

            How you see this as the death of democracy is a mystery.

            Reply
    • Gezza

       /  6th December 2019

      Louise Nicholas calls for ODT & Tremain apologies over 2004 rape case cartoon

      The 3 February 2004 cartoon made reference to the Louise Nicholas rape case, just days after details of the rape accusations against police were made public.

      It showed a mother and a young girl walking past a policeman with a baton hanging off his belt, and the mother telling the young girl to “be thankful you live in a country where they don’t carry guns”.

      Amy said her job at the time was to process the cartoonist’s drafts before showing them to the editor, who would give them a final sign off before publication. She said her “heart stopped” when she first saw the cartoon.

      “It doesn’t take a genius to put two and two together and realise that this was absolutely a direct reference to a particularly horrific detail of the Louise Nicholas case,” she said.

      Ms Nicholas had not seen the cartoon before she was contacted by First Up, and said she was furious at Mr Tremain’s “sick sense of humour”. “At that time I had just come through telling New Zealand about what had happened to me by members of the New Zealand police and that story broke January 30th 2004,” Ms Nicholas said.

      Ms Nicholas said there was no mistaking what the cartoon was suggesting.

      “This guy Tremain has got a pretty sick sense of humour and for the editors back then to allow that to be published, they’re pretty sick as well,” she said.

      Amy also said the messaging of the cartoon was obvious.

      “If you were a news-viewing citizen, if you were reading the news at the time, the Louise Nicholas case was extremely high profile. It was absolutely shocking for its time. It was sort of like the very first high-profile case of its kind like this and that detail of the case was particularly prominent because it was so shocking,” Amy said.

      “No, it didn’t take a genius to put two and two together that that’s exactly what this cartoon was alluding to.”

      Amy said she had tried to convince her editors the cartoon should not be published. “I printed it out, which was my job, and I took it through to the editor at the time – Barry Stewart, who remains in the role – and I took the news editor with me who was on that night, and I said to both of them ‘this is unacceptable, we can’t publish this. It absolutely must not be published’.

      “And they both just laughed in my face and I was told to put it through. So I processed it and it was published.”
      More…
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/louise-nicholas-calls-odt-and-tremain-apology-over-2004-rape-case-cartoon

      Hmm. I never saw that cartoon. Might be best for the ODt if Tremain & maybe Stewart were shown the door? They both seem to be lacking in sensitivity & judgement. But at least Nicholas is only asking for an apology.

      Reply
  2. Click to access Cannabis-Legalisation-and-Control-Bill.pdf

    DRAFT Cannabis Legalisation & Control bill.. folks need to realise, it is a work in progress, that reportedly will be finalised by the ‘Cross-party working group’ in about march 2020 ?

    I am still hearing loads of misinfo. & FEAR-mongering (mostly from ‘the right’)
    May I suggest, that all kiwis who intend to vote in Reeferendum 2020.. actually READ IT ! Do not just listen to the ongoing misinfo. coming from all sides 🙂

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  5th December 2019

      You know, Zedd. I think this referendum has a chance of being dumped by the public. I didn’t think that a few weeks ago. This MAY be a close run result. Where the ‘nos’ are scoring big is asking folk to think about what has happened with the lowering of the drinking age.

      Reply
      • you know, corky.. it is still about a year before the VOTE.. so may I suggest.. Hold your breath & keep your eyes, ears & mind open ! 😀

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th December 2019

          You are sounding desperate. Why? Because like many you thought this was a done deal. In case you missed my reply to Griff…I said if I voted, I would vote to legalise.
          You are taking pot shots at the wrong person. Try Paula Bennett.😒

          Reply
          • ho hum corky.. again.. YOU assume too much 😦

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  5th December 2019

              If you think I’m assuming to much, then put me RIGHT. Don’t be parsimonious with you razor sharp insights.😁

            • the real Q: why bother engaging ?
              end transmission… 😀

            • Corky

               /  5th December 2019

              Exactly. Give pathetic replies, expect the same in return.

      • Gezza

         /  5th December 2019

        Yes, I think this has a chance of being defeated. Especially if that anti-drugged-driving tv ad campaign of NZTA’s is run again. The personal amount of pot proposed to be allowed is way more than I was expecting.

        Reply
        • I find it staggering that in a country, that has reportedly amongst the highest use (& arrest) rates in the world, according to UN stats.. a majority would consider voting for Status Quo. Nearly every OECD country we compare ourselves to, have already implemented Cannabis law reform OR are moving this way

          btw Gezza: 14 grams (1/2 ounce) is only half the amount allowed in Canada, USA states etc. that have already regulated it. No one actually believes that anyone will likely smoke 14 grams per day.. although some folks may smoke this much tobacco ?

          In parliament yesterday (Q4) the issues around Drug-driving & Workplace testing were raised. The answer was ‘this is a work in progress’.. watch this space

          It was good to hear Jacinda’s remarks (paraphrased) ‘Which is better.. a totally unregulated Black-market (current) OR a strictly regulated, harm reduction model. If people stop listening to the FEAR-mongers.. they may think differently ?? :/

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  5th December 2019

            Well, that’s going to be only one of the issues, Zedd. For every proponent of the argument that it’s going to see less overall harm than the status quo there is starting to be another arguing that there could be more harm. Both seem capable of backing their positions with stats from the overseas experience. Bridges was saying on radio the other day that when “we” were smoking pot & contentedly listening to the Woodstock album the THC level was 3%, now you can can get weed as potent as 27% – levels at which psychosis can occur.

            And if it’s regulated to low levels, folk, especially youngstas will likely go after the strong stuff. Who’ll have that? Who really believes under 20’s won’t be able to get their hands on it. They’re smoking it at school already.

            Reply
            • I hear you Gezza.. BUT:

              1) under a regulated regime (as in Canada etc.) the contents & THC level will be listed. Currently we just get whats available: no idea of THC level, until you smoke it. Some maybe low-THC/high CBD ?

              2) It will be R20 (adults only) & the focus will be on keeping it from <20s.. NOT Zero-tolerance.. Adults should have 'Freedom of Choice' (IMHO)

              I also hear that in these countries; youth use rates are now dropping (no longer a forbidden fruit) & the main increase is among 50+ group, who perhaps avoided the illegal stuff, prior to law reform

              'The Rocky Mountain report' from Colorado.. that apparently showed how BAD things are. BUT on close inspection, it was found to be totally 'Cherry-picked' to fit the fear-mongers narrative.. is now widely discredited.. but was recently quoted in NZ by several anti-reform journos & 1-2 Natl MPs Go figure….. :/

            • Also: on your comment about : ‘And if it’s regulated to low levels, folk, especially youngstas will likely go after the strong stuff. Who’ll have that?’

              This maybe true, BUT when I go to the pub, I drink Beer (4-5%).. I could drink straight vodka, if I wanted to just get wasted.. BUT frankly, I have the ‘freedom of choice’ to do either.

              I think WE all need to stop looking at this through the lens of Prohibition & the current Black-market & realise; we can do much better.. ‘Regulation’ is the word, I & others prefer 🙂

              Maybe a little ‘fact checking’ would be a good thing, on these ‘Stats.’ that appear so damning to reform ? just sayin’

            • Gezza

               /  5th December 2019

              What I do think is that it’s a debate that’s going to get a good airing over the next year & that it will be interesting to see what information from the government is finally put out for voters ahead of the referendum.

            • Griff.

               /  5th December 2019

              Another red herring.
              You can buy alcohol at 4% and at 50%.
              It just means you drink less sprites than you do beer for the same buzz.
              Back in the seventy’s we used to roll joints.
              Today most use a pipe of some sort and smoke “cones” maybe a little finger nail worth at a time.

            • methinks the biggest nonsense is that 14 grams is just TOO much.. for adults to buy/possess

              many moons ago, I went to Amsterdam; the coffeeshops sold 5 gram bags, BUT there was no rules about buying more than 1 or going to 3-4 shops & buying 1 in each.
              btw; You cant die from smoking too much herb.. even 14 grams, you would likely just doze off before you got through 2-3. Meanwhile about 1000 deaths from Alcohol & 5000/yr from Tobacco & the law says ‘hey.. Thats OK’ 😦

              Adults need to be treated as such, not like naughty children in the ‘Nanny-state’, that Natl were so happy to accuse Labour of, under Aunty Helen

              I hear that the FEAR-mongering is mostly being driven by those who Fear losing ‘market share’, if the law is changed: ie Big Tobacco, Alcohol & Pharma.. to name but a few Oh yes & the ‘moral crusaders’ who would have us believe.. they never do anything ‘wrong’ :/ 😀

        • Griff.

           /  5th December 2019

          I can legally go and buy alcohol by the pallet at my local retail outlet.
          Enough piss to stupefy the population of a small town.
          On the black market cannabis is presently retailed in tinny’s about 2/3 gram, $50 bags about about 21/2 grams and ounces about 28 grams.
          This has been so for many years.
          Buying by a half ounce, 14 grams. would be the equivalence to buying a case of wine .
          Enough for a reasonable user and partner for a couple of weeks.
          Make the retail quantity to small and you allow gaps for the black market to full.
          Part of the reason to make it legal it to shrink the black market and disadvantage those who profit from illegal activity.

          Drug-driving & Workplace testing is a red herring.
          Both are already addressed in law and in many work place agreements .
          That present testing and limits are supportable or based on science is another debate.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  5th December 2019

            Griff, did you ever use a roach clip so that people could smoke the joint right down and not waste any ? 😀 A hairclip made a good one….or so I heard, ahem…

            Reply
        • Duker

           /  5th December 2019

          14g is just a nominal amount for legal purposes. As being a small grower supplier will still be an offence, you have to come up with a number. Why not just say 10g so it’s clear it’s ’round number’ of no real import.
          Cops aren’t going to be checking homes on a random basis or just to see if the law is being exceeded, but cops do visit homes for lots of different reasons where they will come across ‘home use’. Some quantity , 4 plants 14 g or whatever has to be the ‘nothing to see here’ level . Maybe they won’t bother at a higher level too or it’s the so called theraputic approach kicks in- it’s rehab or else.
          Too funny it was a former stoner holding a bag of fake weed in parliament , as part of the anti campaign

          Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  5th December 2019

    It’s rare to find so much b.s. in one article:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/117924806/educations-leaning-tower-of-pisa

    … but perhaps I don’t read enough educationalists these days. What’s the betting that this Government’s education reforms will just make these awful trends worse?

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  5th December 2019

      So schools having a hub or something to handle leaky roofs or painting or handling accounts payable so they are stolen by employees will affect maths scores?j

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  5th December 2019

        Probably not, but pandering to the teacher unions, removing parental choice and ensuring schools indulge in social work rathrr than teaching probably will.

        Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  5th December 2019

    I have just heard chuck bird whining to the voice of the National Party,peter williams on magic radio,who you must admit is only a one trick pony,, climate change, so to chuck and peter two elderly bitter persons…he[p is here

    Reply
  5. Corky

     /  5th December 2019

    Willie Nelson has given up the weed at 86 years old. According to Snoop Dog, Willie was the only person who could smoke him under the table.

    In an interview I heard Willie say he gave up drinking because his mouth would start to run away on him. And in Texas, that can be a capital offence. Damn straight, son.

    However, it’s now time for Willie to pay for his herb use – he has emphysema. Anyone who tells you herb is benign is speaking bs.✔

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/04/willie-nelson-gives-weed-nearly-killed-im-lucky-11272723/

    Reply
    • ho hum.. just a reminder about 5000 kiwis, reprtedly die annually from Tobacco.. this is still legal in Aotearoa/NZ

      …. mountains out of Molehills …… plus loads of BS !

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  5th December 2019

        I’m not denying that. I just stated herb use has the same effect. Some scientist believe it’s worse than tobacco. But that is debated.

        . ”Mountains out of Molehills …… plus loads of BS !”

        Tell that to Willie and my cuz who died with black dead legs from chronic herb abuse.

        Look, you said let’s discuss this and keep an open mind. Aren’t I allowed to post anything negative about herb? I concede it has had excellent results for pain relief and other medical conditions. But socially, it’s been a disaster for many people in my opinion. It’s one of the major drivers for the disintegration of the Maori community. Legalisation will completely destroy South Auckland. In fact, should it be legalised, I can see South Auckland renamed South Green.

        You may be able to bs the ignorant. But you won’t be bsing me.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  5th December 2019

          No its not
          “has had excellent results for pain relief and other medical conditions”

          Its just a claim by clueless dupes
          This the so called “results ” you really should be talking about
          “Medicinal cannabis ‘false hope’ for chronic pain sufferers – pain doctors
          You have to treat 24 patients to find one patient who has a 30 percent or more reduction in their pain, 23 out of 24 patients won’t even get a 30 percent reduction in their pain,” he said.
          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/394227/medicinal-cannabis-false-hope-for-chronic-pain-sufferers-pain-doctors

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  5th December 2019

            ”Its just a claim by clueless dupes”

            It’s the study game you want to play. What about personal experience? Oh, that doesn’t count. Here’s a more balanced study, that support some of your contentions and mine. Bottom line..more research is needed. A stock response..that goes on and on and on. There’s many more studies that we could both quote to bolster our arguments.

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK224384/

            ”1500 in NZ die from Lung cancer annually, not 5k”

            ”ho hum.. just a reminder about 5000 kiwis, reportedly die annually from Tobacco”

            Make your mind up, you clever boy. I took you at your word and didn’t check.

            In future if you want to play childish games give me a heads up so I can check every word you write.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  5th December 2019

              You are right for once . No its doest count. If you like getting stoned , just say so. Dont wrap a bandage around it call it medicine.
              More research isnt needed, its the dope lobby wont accept it doesnt work any more than a placebo does.

            • Corky

               /  5th December 2019

              I don’t care if people smoke dope. As long as they don’t hurt others. That’s the problem that will happen though.

              ”Don’t wrap a bandage around it call it medicine.”

              I doubt smoking dak socially is medicine. However, someone who is relieved from muscular spasm by dak could call it ‘medicine.’

        • Zedd

           /  5th December 2019

          I dont try to BS anyone…. I give MY opinions on thing.. at least I have one

          oh dear, how sad.. never mind 😀

          Reply
      • Duker

         /  5th December 2019

        1500 in NZ die from Lung cancer annually, not 5k
        600 (men) die from prostate cancer, probably similar numbers of women die from breast cancer.
        We waited too long to wind back the supply and cost of cigarettes. Lest not make a mistake with cannabis and letting it become more accepted and toss the health concerns over the fence as next generations problem.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  5th December 2019

          Someone died with dead black legs from smoking dope ?

          That sounds highly improbable.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  5th December 2019

          The Health Department claim isn’t that 5,000 die from lung cancer each year – it’s

          “Half of all long-term smokers will die from a smoking-related disease.

          Around 5000 people die each year in New Zealand because of smoking or second-hand smoke exposure. That’s 13 people a day.”

          That will no doubt include those who also die from vascular conditions primarily considered to be caused by smoking – heart attacks, strokes – & from emphysema.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  5th December 2019

            In context though, G, near100% of non-smokers will die from a non-smoking related disease.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  5th December 2019

              Yes Alan. Human existence is a fatal condition. The main problem with smoking is avoidably shortened lifespans, avoidably restricted lives, & costs of treatment for breathing problems, vascular problems etc. And the deleterious health effects it has on others who have to breathe in 2nd-hand smoke. (Less of a problem now, I suspect, than when smoking was common in homes, offices, pubs, any enclosed space.)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  5th December 2019

              Yes, that of course is an entirely different statistic and a more useful one. Quality of life is also a major factor alongside quantity.

  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  5th December 2019

    Trumpy spreads the love in Europe:
    https://spectator.us/trump-saving-nato/

    Reply
  7. Zedd

     /  5th December 2019

    an oldie but a goodie… cheers me up 😀

    Reply
  8. Corky

     /  5th December 2019

    Oh, boy, bad news for Chris Faafoi. The problem just seems to just keep mounting.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  5th December 2019

      Helped a buddy with immigration issues. He allegedly talked to the RIGHT people.
      All grist for the mill..whether true or not.

      Unfortunately that’s offset by the government dealing to da fillfy witch banks and oil companies. The government will also tax electric cars when they reach 2% of the national fleet..or otherwise in a couple of years time. If I remember correctly that will be 12 cents per km.

      Reply
        • Gezza

           /  5th December 2019

          Yes, that could get him in quite a bit of grief. Firstly by suggesting he could get Jason Kerrson’s mum’s new spouse’s partnership application reviewed & approved quickly. Secondly by discussing this publicly (it seems) on facebook. Thirdly, with Kerrison, by not yet getting it approved.

          He’s within his rights to make official representations to the Immigration Minister as an MP on behalf of a constituent, and probably also to write a letter of support to Immigration NZ – but according to that report he’s promised more than that – & then not delivered.

          Could get messy. Will be interesting to see who else in media picks this story up.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  5th December 2019

            The public nature of the discussion makes it look as if it was open and above board; I didn’t have the impression that he was offering to do anything illegal, just point the other bloke in the right direction…I’d need more than a few Facebook exchanges before I pass judgement.

            It was certainly indiscreet and not well thought out.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  5th December 2019

              It was certainly indiscreet and not well thought out.

              It’s amateurish. He should have known better. It’s not a good look at all. Ardern’s crew seem ridiculously out of touch with the rules governing how they should operate & to not understand that more than ever before any communications they have on cases like this that they get involved with can be discovered & reported.

        • Gezza

           /  5th December 2019

          ‘Bro I have a plan’: Kris Faafoi offered to help in friend’s immigration case
          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12291430

          The Herald’s picked it up.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  5th December 2019

            If it’s on talkback in the morning, it’s Thunderbirds are go!

            No doubt Jacinda is on a secure line. She has a real problem – Faafoi is one of her better ministers.

            Meanwhile Winston is calling a former NZ1 member mentally ill.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  6th December 2019

              It was done in detail on last night’s news, including transcriptions of the conversations.

  9. Corky

     /  5th December 2019

    Prison Guards dealt to. Why not? What were they going to do? Baton them. Pepper spray them. Taser them. Shoot them? No, they will file an incident report.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12291433

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  5th December 2019

      I can’t see any reason to baton, pepper spray, taser or kill the prison guards because an inmate assaulted them.

      Of course an incident report will be made; what do you expect ? That they’d be executed ?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  5th December 2019

        First you want peaceful protestors to be batoned at the Otago Daily Times, now you want two prison guards to be.

        They were the victims here.

        Reply
  10. Corky

     /  6th December 2019

    Anti Vaxxer Wag on the warpath.

    As usual the truth gets lost in the cross fire. Vitamin A is an adjunct to treatment and very important. But it’s not a cure per se as some anti vaxxers believe. Meanwhile the medical reaction is astounding.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/404583/anti-vaxers-send-vitamin-a-to-samoa

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12291428

    Reply
  11. Gezza

     /  6th December 2019

    Are the oldies getting in to social media just as the youngstas are getting sick of it?

    “… it feels you can’t have a conversation these days with your friends by themselves, it’s always them and their 2000 Snapchat followers. There’s also my personal, soul-destroying experience of trying to be a social media influencer.

    But most importantly, it just felt like every time I opened social media there was a poisonous, overwhelming wave of unfiltered ranting. I feel like I’ve grown up surrounded by constant, unconsidered downloading of anything and everything people are feeling.

    My feeds are awash with inflammatory fake news, outrageous click-bait headlines, stream-of-consciousness diatribes from the outraged residents of the Facebook community page, or just the inanely vicious comment threads of communal pile-ons.

    Far from being the face of the bright new future, it felt like I was slipping back into medieval England, where I was encouraged to throw eggs of outrage at someone I didn’t know for committing a crime I didn’t have time to understand. I was over it.

    I’m not alone in this. According to recent research, Gen Z is increasingly likely to start logging off social media entirely. Half of people born after 1995 report that they’re considering quitting or have quit a social media platform, and the numbers who report social media as being important to them are dropping off considerably.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/117964079/help-im-too-young-to-be-such-a-luddite

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  6th December 2019

      I didn’t realise that ‘liking’ something on FB (which I never did, anyway; I seldom use it) as this sends that thing out to people whom I know. It’s a nuisance when this happens to me, I won’t do it to others.

      I immediately unsubscribed from Neighbourly when I discovered that they dish out names and email addresses to all and sundry as well as spying on what members do online.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  6th December 2019

      You are quoting from the ODT. I don’t read that newspaper on principle.

      Reply
      • ….on principle ??

        NZs oldest & respected newspaper 😀

        I suppose you prefer.. Mickey H. or Fox news instead !?
        ‘good honest.. RIGHT-wing news sources’ :/

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  6th December 2019

          I don’t read the ODT, but only because it’s Otago and I live in the Waikato; I don’t suppose that Otago people read the Waikato Times, either.

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  6th December 2019

          I support anyone who stands up against feral bullies. The ODT ain’t one.

          On this topic, Gezza has previously written that I have a hard arse persona online.. hinting at a kind of ‘shock Jock ‘type of approach to posting.

          That’s not true. What I write is what I personally believe. I believe in those views because experience has taught me what works and what doesn’t. I have seen what liberal philosophy inbedded in politics has done to our country. Education, family life and society in general…all fugged up. And how do we tackle this decline..we look for more liberal solutions to problems caused by liberalism. I don’t know about you, but the sounds fugged up to me.

          Reply
  12. Gezza

     /  6th December 2019

    Jacinda Ardern confronted by idiot foot-shooting gun owners at school opening

    The Herald does a short item on this story about some aggrieved gun nuts apparently determined to get gun owners offside with the public & uses the rest of the article to continue the attack on Faafoi.

    Jacinda Ardern has been confronted with a group of gun-owning protestors at an Auckland school opening.

    About 40 gun owners picketed outside Grey Lynn Primary School. The protest had been advertised on the New Zealand Firearms Protest website and cited the gun buyback database breach as unacceptable.

    Victoria O’Brien, spokeswoman for the group, told the Herald “we’re here because of the incredibly large data breach which has happened to anyone who has followed the government instructions”.

    “Our private data has been breached. This leads us open to identity theft and criminal invasion. We would like the PM to take responsibility. She and [Police Minister Stuart] Nash have refused to apologise. We demand an apology and we want Nash to resign. She is opening a school, our kids are at risk too because of their failures.”

    One highly-agitated driver slowed down in front of the protest and screamed: “Why outside a school you maniacs?”.

    Ardern was welcomed onto the site with a powhiri by students.

    She is not expected to address media over the Kris Faafoi immigration saga.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12291623

    Reply
  13. Gezza

     /  6th December 2019

    10k signature petition to stop armed police response team trial presented to Parliament

    …the trial immediately attracted criticism with the group ‘People Against Prisons Aotearoa’ warning it could cause “American-style shootings”.

    Emilie Rākete of the group said that New Zealanders “don’t want our policing to follow the lead of failed approaches overseas. This plan is irresponsible, unnecessary, and will lead to racist violence.”

    Auckland Councillor for Manukau, Fa’anana Efeso Collins, told TVNZ 1’s Tagata Pasifika in November “the evidence is clear when it comes to militarising the police, it is brown males who are going to suffer the most and that’s the danger I see”.

    “We know that when the police interact with Māori and Pacific people, if you’re Māori, you’re 13 more times likely to have a dog set on you than if you are Pakeha,” he said.

    Yesterday at Parliament, the petition of Melissa Lama was presented to Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/petition-10-000-signatures-urges-goverment-stop-armed-police-trial?auto=6113239469001

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  6th December 2019

      Liberal and wet. A totem of where we are at as a society. And let’s not forget what passes now for intellectual rigour:

      ”Auckland Councillor for Manukau, Fa’anana Efeso Collins, told TVNZ 1’s Tagata Pasifika in November “the evidence is clear when it comes to militarising the police, it is brown males who are going to suffer the most and that’s the danger I see”.

      He’s right. But has he ever considered why brown males are going to suffer the most? Maybe this will help: A Pam Corkery Production.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  6th December 2019

        According to the 2007 book Gangs by English journalist Ross Kemp, New Zealand had more gangs per head than any other country in the world, with about seventy major gangs and over 4,000 patched members in a population of 4 million people. In 2019 the Police recorded 6,500 patched or prospective gang members in the country, with the ten main gangs being the Head Hunters, Bandidos, Hells Angels, King Cobras, Black Power, Mongrel Mob, Tribesmen, Rebels, Devils Henchmen and Highway 61.

        It was reported in 2019 that New Zealand gangs seemed to be recruiting members at a greater rate than the police force.

        Wikipedia has plenty of links but struggles to keep up to date:
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_New_Zealand

        Reply
  14. Corky

     /  6th December 2019

    I have received my lumps for standing up and saying I found the Garrick Tremain cartoon inoffensive and not racist. The howls of protest were phenomenal. The outrage offensive.

    So here we go folks. Let’s get stuck in here.

    …..folks? folks..anyone there? 😒

    Oh, he’s just some Rightie..who cares?

    Well not David Seymour. I wonder why that is?

    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/race-relations-commissioner-describes-stuffs-seymour-cartoon-as-bad-taste/

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  6th December 2019

      I have received my lumps for standing up and saying I found the Garrick Tremain cartoon inoffensive and not racist. The howls of protest were phenomenal. The outrage offensive.

      What the fug you on about, bro? You’re probably sitting on your arse, you haven’t collected any lumps for your posts, & the worst you’ve probably had is a handful of downticks & a precious few posters disagreeing or commenting in response to whatever you’ve said on YNZ.

      You even commented the other day that I’d had 27 downticks for something I posted over two years ago that, when I went & checked it – had 3 downticks (possibly all from the same wanker making return visits) & 7 upticks.

      Keep it real, bro. Keep it real.

      And from my recollection even you have commented that the Tremain cartoon was inappropriate. Why was it inappropriate?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  6th December 2019

        We have gone over all that previously. You can provide a link to that for anyone who is interested.

        ”And from my recollection even you have commented that the Tremain cartoon was inappropriate.”

        Correct. I did write that. I wrote that because the OTD didn’t take into account the woke society we live in, and the impact it would have on the paper and Garrick Tremain and uneducated folk who would believe Tremain was racist, insensitive to babies dying..and what ever else goes on in liberal mind.

        Talking of the measles outbreak…apparently the NZ Medical authorities were warned months ago this was a situation waiting to happen. Personally, I don’t know what it has to do with NZ.
        Maybe travel spread from NZ etc? But whatever: Why aren’t medical authorities getting panned like anti vaxxers?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  6th December 2019

          That’ll be coming.

          The Samoan PM on 1News at 6, talking about the shutdown over there so that everybody unvaccinated can get vaccinated (by multiple teams from all over the world urgently going out to all the villages everywhere) said he has ordered this shutdown & mass vaccination programme because too many of his people are still too “lackadaiscal” to travel to vaccination centres until it’s too late.

          It’s already been acknowledged that the death of two infants caused by Samoan nurses improperly preparing the measles vaccine last year has frightened some parents & exacerbated the problem of less than half the population having got vaccinations in recent years.

          That’s why the anti-vaxxers who cranked up their campaign there have been arrested.

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  6th December 2019

      And re that Stuff cartoon. I’ve never seen that before. You usually have to go looking for their cartoons on their cartoon page these days.

      I can see what’s funny in Tremain’s Samoa Measles Outbreak cartoon but also why some other people wouldn’t, & why they shouldn’t have run it when it’s widely known that children are dying in droves from measles over there.

      As for this cartoon. Totally agree with David Seymour & Meng Foon – that one’s incredibly offensive. But few people probably even saw it. Whoever cleared that one for publication needs a censure too.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  6th December 2019

        The Seymour cartoon just shows the cartoonist doesn’t deserve the free speech she is exercising while crapping on it. But don’t expect any self-awareness from a Lefty.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  6th December 2019

          I actually copied the link & was going to post it with my comment above but decided it was too offensive. That one borders on the defamatory imo.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  6th December 2019

            It’s more brain-dead stupid than offensive, but then so is its target audience.

            Reply
  15. Corky

     /  7th December 2019

    This story is from Australia, but it mirrors everything I wrote about self defence in New Zealand, right down to the defender being heckled and warned outside the court house.
    In my society, threatening those found not guilty of crimes would punishable by an automatic 3 years in jail -no parole.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/11/australian-man-benjamin-batterham-found-not-guilty-of-murdering-burglar-who-he-chased-down-and-beat.html

    Reply

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