Open Forum – 15 December

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205 Comments

    • Gezza

       /  15th December 2019

      That is deeply disturbing but not surprising. There really are only two ways to ensure none of these IS women and their children – so long as they remain with their mothers – can continue to be the deadly threat they still are & that is to either lock them up all for life or eliminate them.

      I was surprised that more of them weren’t just shot out of hand by their captors, given what they did to so many of their own compatriots.

      Reply
      • Incredible that she complains they are treated like animals when IS would have done much worse.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th December 2019

          One of them excuses that because: “It’s in the Koran.”
          But it’s not. If it’s anywhere, it’s in a hadith. And even then, it’s arguable whether it still applies.

          Reply
          • Yes. A lot of religious doctrine is based on political interpolations rather than anything in scripture. Hence evangelicals are so caught up with capitalism and guns.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th December 2019

              The group of children looked quite ordinary, but the one who said that about slaughtering looked very odd; his eyes were like a drugged person’s eyes. Was he autistic or something like that ? I’d say that he has some sort of mental problem.

              Someone I know has an adopted nephew who was one of Africa’s child soldiers and who has become quite normal. He’s a clever, articulate young man who will have graduated from university some time ago now. It can be done.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              It’s surrendering your rationality & humanity to the diktats of very olden times, often confusing, texts that are not only most relevant to their specific time, tribe (or followers), & place, but were sometimes confusing & argued about or questioned by them at that time. Izzy Folau demonstrates the same problem.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              @ Kitty

              There was interesting documentary on Aljazeera tv a while back that showed Global Mercenary companies have been actively recruiting former African child soldiers because they are so much cheaper now than Europeans, & they have so few other work opportunities in their home countries. And these child soldiers were not, for the most part, motivated by a belief that their barbarities were required by holy books & will ultimately be rewarded by Allah, Jaweh or God.

              It is probably easier to repair the psychological damage caused to African child soldiers than those who have been taught that their holy books require absolute obedience to a prophet or deity & that eternal punishment awaits those who reject that deity.

        • Blazer

           /  17th December 2019

          don’t mention Gitmo…don’t know how some of these people think they’re ever going to go to…Heaven.

          Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  15th December 2019

        Contract out their care and attention to China and North Korea? What else can you do with deceitful insane hatred?

        Reply
        • There are a lot of unholy players in that region. Russia, Turkey, Iran. Sooner or later those women and children will be seen as a problem. I don’t think they have a great future.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  15th December 2019

            I’d see if any can be rehabilitated, if not they could be kept in decent conditions but in isolation.

            I am from an Ulster family and know how hard it is not to absorb these ideas of them and us.In a pressure cooker like this, it must be all but impossible.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              The London Bridge attacker demonstrated amply why the idea of rehabilitating a religious fanatic is fraught.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th December 2019

              He may well have been a nutter as well as a fanatic.

              I wonder what effects living in Gloriavale will have longterm on those who have left there. The sight of a father rejecting his young daughter who’d left the cult but wanted to see her parents again was heartbreaking.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              The evidence to date shows he wasn’t a nutter. He was clever & methodical enuf to plan long term for his release & rampage.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th December 2019

              Someone can be clever as well as a loony.

              That child looked just like people I’ve seen who were on hard drugs, not that I have seen vast numbers of them. But the eyes were like theirs. I’d say that there’s something very wrong with him as well as his being a religious nut. He was parroting things he’d heard, I’d say.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              He was parroting things he’d heard, I’d say.
              So do most religious fanatics.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              And in fact the evidence is that the Torah, the Bible & the Quran came into being by the same process.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  15th December 2019

            The only thing wrong with Christianity is the people who belong to it (for the most part) The religion itself is great, as most are, the followers let them down.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              If the followers let them down, how can that be and how can the religion thus be great?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th December 2019

              The religions are not the problem, it’s some of the people who hijack them. Israel Folau and the Tamakis are a prime example, so are Gloriavale and Hopeful Christian. The hideous Westboro Baptists are another. ISIS shows what people can distort Islam into when they put their minds to it.

              The Bible doesn’t tell people to amass fortunes, rip others off and abuse children, but we all know that people like Hateful Hypocrite aka Hopeful Christian was a paedophile and that many churches like Destiny still go in for the prosperity gospel and see material possessions as ‘blessings’.

        • Blazer

           /  17th December 2019

          can’t make money like this forex gambling….
          ‘Between 2014 and 2017 the mansion’s CV increased nearly 50 per cent thanks to Auckland house prices soaring under a National government led by Key.’

          His biggest ever…’deal’!

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118217206/sir-john-key-sells-mansion-for-235m-in-what-was-nzs-second-biggest-house-sale-of-2017

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  17th December 2019

          bomb them?

          Reply
  1. David

     /  15th December 2019

    Interesting to look back at some discussions here and in particular the collapse of business confidence has foreshadowed a halving of the growth rate and keeps its place as a good leading indicator.
    Also Joyces, 11 billion dollar fiscal hole has proven quite right and if anything a little conservative.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  15th December 2019

      No it wasnt . he was quite specific about where the fiscal hole came from.and it was a complete lie
      You cant explain what he meant or why ‘its proven right’- which is nonsense, but you just have an instinct that national is right forgetting the Cullen fund of the nett zero debt the Clark government left
      It was about the pre election Labour numbers they were using. Nothing to do with extra projects not in the pre election promises.
      Joyce cant help lieing all over again.
      The reality is the budget numbers have been even better – Im skeptical anyone in the media of here understand what an accrual deficit is, what a cash deficit is , what is actual borrowing done by the government.

      Reply
  2. Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  15th December 2019

      Weasel words.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th December 2019

        I find it impossible to believe that she had no idea that this meant what it does and that it doesn’t mean the same in Swedish. Or that the speech was improvised…what does she take us for ?

        She apologises if anyone misunderstood this, not for having said it. That’s a non-apology.

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  15th December 2019

      That is very disingenuous. She has ramped up a movement based on high emotion and the end of the world and used highly charged language, she knew exactly what she was saying.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  15th December 2019

        Poor Greta. Bullied on social media by another, bigger child who knows nothing about science, who got elected as POTUS, & whose wife has just announced a campaign against bullying children on social media & just been telling others off for bullying her own autistic son.

        The irony’s so rich.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  15th December 2019

          She’s playing the same game. Getra knows nothing of science and can stand for elected office just as soon as she wishes. Greta is using social media to bully, then falling behind the ‘I’m just a child’ defense when called on it.

          If you can’t see the difference between someone who has chosen to be a public figure, and the son of a public figure who is not in the spotlight then that is your own irony.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th December 2019

            Come off the grass Pinky. Trump uses social & tv media to bully & then hides behind I didn’t do it & I didn’t say it, when there’s actual visible evidence of him doing both. At least Greta doesn’t do that.

            If you can’t see the irony of the most powerful, nasty, pathologically lying, childlike President in the world bullying a child (whether or not they’re in the spotlight) when his own trophy wife he cheated on has started a campaign against bullying children on social media, there’s something seriously wrong with you, & imo it’s TBS.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  15th December 2019

              Greta has chosen her role. She is using bulling just the same as Trump.
              She is in the game and her status ‘child’ isn’t any defense. It’s a large part of the strategy she is using and I’m fine for her to be called on it.

              I see significant difference between her and Trump’s son.

              “there’s something seriously wrong with you,”

              Of course. I’m deplorable. I thought we had established this some time ago?

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              No. Trump’s delorable. You’ve just got Trump-Besotted Syndrome.

            • Pink David

               /  15th December 2019

              I’m fascinated you do not realise that Trumps attacks on Greta are a profound measure of her success. She is a 16 girl engaging with the President of the United States, and the surest test of that success if Trump’s attacks. On top of that, it’s exactly what she wants. If she just posted and Trump simply ignored it, most of the media would ignore it too.

              “You’ve just got Trump-Besotted Syndrome.”

              I just thought it was a nasty rash.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              It is.

        • David

           /  15th December 2019

          Uhm one is a public figure giving speeches and generally telling everyone off and good on her the other just unfortunately is expected to cop it because of what his Dad does ?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th December 2019

            It’s not about Barron. It’s about Melania’s husband bullying a child, because she got something he expects to get, when Melania’s just started a publicised campaign against online bullying. How farken embarassing. Except that only Melania will be embarassed.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th December 2019

            And the other thing worth noting is that all the mainstream media Trump hates have studiously avoided commenting on Barron. They’ve observed the convention of not bringing a President’s minor children into their criticisms of Trump.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th December 2019

              This didn’t happen with Chelsea Clinton whose personal appearance was mocked by the tabloids, especially her long wavy hair which I thought was lovely and would have loved at that age.

              Greta T is an attention-seeker and can’t expect the attention to be 100% favourable. She dishes it out, she must expect others to repay the compliment, especially when she insults all adults by haranguing them for doing nothing to help the environment. Or when she abuses people for doing what she does herself.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              Both those points are true.

              But ordinarily one would expect the husband of the First Lady of the United States of America to not immediately embarrass his wife by doing the very thing she has just started a high profile campaign against. His most likely defence will be that he didn’t know anything about her campaign which, even if she had just told him about it 30 minutes before, is likely to be true.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              The Bible tells people all sorts of things, so do the Torah & the Quran, & some of them are confusing, way out of date with current knowledge & beliefs, & even contradictory in themselves. This is because of how & when the scriptures were written & compiled by their various human authors & editors.

              If the Jews are right about what God is & what he expects, then Christians & Muslims are wrong about him, his expectations, & what happens when we die. If Christians are wrong about what God is & what he wants & what happens post mortem, then obviously the Muslims & Jews are wrong. And if Muslims are right about what God is and expects & any afterlife, then the Jews and the Christians are wrong.

              When the 3 major Abrahamic religions all purport to be the word of God & they’re all different about his nature & expectations, & the day of judgement, you are left with people picking out what they prefer to believe God wants from their own exposure to whichever ones they choose to think is right.

              So, in my view, Folau is not wrong to believe what does, because he gets from the Bible what he must do if he wants to save those specified groups of people from eternal punishment.

            • Gezza

               /  15th December 2019

              Whoops. Wrong place. Never mind. Religious debates aren’t worth the energy & time.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  15th December 2019

      You wouldn’t want to be put up against the wall by Vikings would you? But I’m sure she didn’t mean it physically just as I am sure that if you buy in to a political fight you don’t expect Queensbury Rules or to get special treatment.

      Whether she is a leader or just a useful tool she is at the front-line of emotional manipulation warfare with all its risks. Chances are she won’t have a long life.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th December 2019

        I’d say that she’s a useful tool who thinks that she’s a leader. She is forever haranguing and abusing people for doing things that she does herself, like her use of the fossil fuels whose production she condemns.

        She may not have meant it literally, but it’s a very aggressive thing to say and she has to have known its meaning.

        She can’t be a child when it suits her & her admirers and not when it doesn’t. I am tired of her hectoring manner as she rants hysterically at the adults and then pouts when they object to her bratty ways.

        It’s ironic that the Queensbury rules were invented by the Marquis of Queensbury who didn’t seem to feel that any kind of restraint and gentlemanly behaviour was needed outside the ring.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  15th December 2019

          IF is entitled to believe that something is a sin and to say that he does.

          He is not entitled to tell people that they are going to Hell because he thinks that they should.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th December 2019

            He doesn’t think they should. He thinks Jesus thinks they would. He’s made it clear he is trying to save people. He’s paraphrasing St Pauls 1st letter to the Corinthians verses 9-10.

            Logically, to him, if they cannot enter the Kingdom of God, then obviously they are destined for the Hell of everlasting fire that Jesus warns about in gospels in the New Testament:

            Revelation 21:8 – But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

            Revelation 20:15 – And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

            Matthew 25:46 – And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

            Matthew 10:28 – And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

            Mark 9:43-48 – And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

            Matthew 13:50 – And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

            Revelation 20:14 – And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

            2 Thessalonians 1:9 – Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

            Revelation 20:10 – And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

            Psalms 145:20 – The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

            Matthew 5:22 – But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

            Revelation 14:11 – And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

            Luke 16:19-31 – There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: Parable goes on to describe the ungenerous rich man being tormented in flames after his death.

            Luke 12:5 – But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th December 2019

            1 Corinthians 6 9-10

            KJV
            9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
            10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

            Take your pick of version & translation
            https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-9.htm

            Reply
            • duperez

               /  16th December 2019

              I wonder if those many years ago all those biblical people realised that a fair way down the track it would be said, “he knew exactly what he was saying.” 🙃

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  16th December 2019

              Obviously the folk that once wrote this stuff are now writing RMA and building regulations. In due course they will become Vogons.

  3. Pink David

     /  15th December 2019

    How’s this for a totally bang on election prediction;

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  15th December 2019

      That’s very heavily edited – there’s clearly quite lot been cut out of that. Can you find us the full version? It’d be interesting to see what’s missing.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  15th December 2019

        His dumps his jacket & his shirt changes colour from blue to pink in the middle & at the end.
        It’s a composite of at least two presentations, so you’ll need to find both.

        Reply
      • Pink David

         /  15th December 2019

        Just for you…

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th December 2019

          And here’s the other one they cut and pasted some bits from. In this one he has UK leaving the EU on 31 October, then calling a General Election.

          Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th December 2019

    Double surprise – a sensible opinion piece in the Herald and it came from WaPo:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12293914

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  15th December 2019

      Fun thought for the day, Boris is a US citizen. What do you think the chances of him running for President in 2024?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  15th December 2019

        No hes not. |Renounced it a few years ago, apparently the tax obligations even if you dont live there are scary.
        Jacinda could get all the Hollywood set NZ citizenship

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  16th December 2019

          I didn;t know that about the taxes.

          Many people were caught in the past when they went to the US from Britain to work (actors and actresses, writers on lecture tours and so on) and paid tax there…and had a horrible surprise when they came back and were taxed again on the same money by the UK tax department, so that they ended up with little or nothing of their earnings. This seems an appalling injustice.

          Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  15th December 2019

    What a laugh, over on the ALT Right blog called YSB were you can abuse the PM to your heart’s content, and its TOTAL FREE SPEECH as long as hollysheert,editor allows it.I lasted 2 days after it started. there’s this nasty piece of rubbish gone from there but still spews the same hatred on Kiwiblog, So BEWARE PG his username is”The King”

    Editor December 14, 2019 At 2:24 pm
    The King is no more. After his last rant today about the Jews, I have had enough and deleted him from ysb.
    In the past 3 days I have sent a shot across the bow by deleting most of his posts. This has not been taken heed of, so he is no more.
    There is another one who is very near to going the same way, so be warned. I am not always able to see every comment as it is posted and have trusted the members of YSB to be more considerate in their comments.
    REMEMBER over at YSB Its free speech as long as its abusing Labour,the Police and Jacinda Ardern

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  15th December 2019

      Until right now I didn’t know what YSB was. Had a look through and given what it looks like there’s no cause for concern. After 2020 Strike Force Raptor will be in there with their harassment tactics. 🙂

      Reply
      • lurcher1949

         /  15th December 2019

        Hell how does a old fart poster like me gets to see every blog out there…but then we are WOKE, and very aware

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  15th December 2019

      It’s an echo chamber for Righties, and Lefties having some fun – seeing what it would be like to be Rightie. Lefties aren’t worried about being deleted. It was just a little fun. I prefer here. Plenty of socialist identities to stalk… and the comedy from Kitty, while boring and thread destroying, is worth the odd laugh every 20 posts or so.🎈

      Lurchy, stop worrying about blogs. Get your choppers tuned up by the ”tooth doctor” and tuck into your state funded Xmas dinner.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th December 2019

        What a conceited little troll you are.

        If anyone’s boring and thread destroying, it’s you with your spite, racism, bigotry and lies. You have been shown up many times by various people, but still admire yourself inordinately; I don’t imagine that many other people do.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  15th December 2019

          You didn’t think to check to see if raw milk could be sold in shops before claiming to buy it from one…oh dear. It’s only been able to be sold from farms for almost four years now.

          Why do you do this ?

          Reply
    • The King

       /  15th December 2019

      Well hello there my subjects, The King has arrived.

      👌

      Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  15th December 2019

    Lurchy, stop worrying about blogs. Get your choppers tuned up by the ”tooth doctor” and tuck into your state funded Xmas din
    ?????WTF i have real money
    Corky you are protected by PG, as hes from the south but STOP INSULTING ME, your are starting to sound like a jerk and maybe PG approves of jerks,i have my teeth, hair and run fast dogs and can still get it up, unlike you a [deleted],PG give it your best

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  15th December 2019

      Starting to sound like one ?

      Insulting you, your teeth, your income and your dogs is wearing thin. None are any of his business. I admire your patience in putting up with it for so long !!!

      Reply
  7. Reply
    • Corky

       /  15th December 2019

      Election time clears the head and the sinuses. However, if you don’t have much to work with, and your coalition partners are becoming increasingly frustrated with you….it’s best to do vague and hope Simon will stuff up. That of course is on the cards.

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  15th December 2019

      National has ‘broad and empty claims too –
      “National wants New Zealand to be a healthy society with a working health system, where illnesses are prevented as much as possible and care is easily accessible. Where mental health is just as important as physical health,…”

      No puffery is too small
      “National will continue with enabling Good Lives Model and look for Opportunities to expand it ”
      Does that mean they will take over the Wellbeing program with just a name change?

      Reply
  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th December 2019

    Did they get a building consent?

    Reply
  9. Corky

     /  16th December 2019

    Mikey is on holiday. Resting before the big push next year when National will try to emulate what Boris has done in Britain and destroy the Left in New Zealand for good.

    Heard Peter Dunn on talkback. He’s part of a company called Cetex (?). They will be producing medicinal cannabis, and eventually other medicinal products. Peter has finally reached the zenith of his life…he’s now a genuine Righty. Welcome aboard, son.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/12/blair-vining-used-illegal-medical-cannabis-before-his-death-wife-reveals.html

    National will make cyclists use cycleways where they are available. About time. I’m tired of
    encountering feral cyclists; two/three abreast, holding up traffic.

    Talking of cycling, I did some sprint work on my bike yesterday. After 20kms of mixed riding, I was shot, so I decided to rest under a tree at a local sports park. A leisurely game of cricket was in progress. The spectators were mainly seated in those foldable chairs beloved by nutters who love watching this ghastly game.

    The thing is, they weren’t watching the cricket, they were all on their smartphones. 😃

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  16th December 2019

      National will make cyclists use cycleways
      Another case of compulsion from our very confused so called “libertarian”.

      It was interesting to read that national wants to halt fuel tax and go to user pays to fund roading.
      I would support it if that is what would happen.
      Instead it will be another case of industry gets a pass and Joe public pays.
      Trucks should pay thousands of times more as they are the ones destroying the roads …..
      https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/
      https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-ging trucontent/uploads/2016/07/vehicle-weight-and-damage-chart.jpg
      And before we get a rightie making excuses for the trucking industry.
      Around here it is logging trucks doing the damage. Making them pay more will not have any effect on what you are paying for goods as its all exported .

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  16th December 2019

        ”National will make cyclists use cycleways.
        Another case of compulsion from our very confused so called “libertarian”.

        No need for a detailed reply. Of course, with compulsion also goes choice. My suggestion, Griff, if you want to see pseudo Libertarians, visit your socialist mates in the ACT Party.

        Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  16th December 2019

      Then they weren’t spectators, were they ? They were just people who, like you, were in the park. Many people use folding chairs.

      The person who shot you can’t be a very good shot.

      Going two abreast is legal as far as I know. Do you know what feral means ?

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  18th December 2019

      forget about Mikey….you’re gunna love…Nigel!
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12294626

      Reply
  10. duperez

     /  16th December 2019

    Chris Bishop is on his bike pedalling like hell and getting the headlines. ‘National proposes axing fuel taxes, increasing funding for transport if it wins in 2020 followed up by
    “National is thinking about axing fuel taxes completely if it wins office in 2020.’

    The headline could just as easily have been from something well down the page:
    “National wants road user charges for all motorists.”

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  16th December 2019

      Depends which turns out cheaper. National will take it to the people. The people will decide.
      All I want National to do is mean what they say. If elected, have police officers fining cyclists who don’t use cycleways. It’ that simple.

      And that of course brings us back to the ignoramuses who believe it’s legal to cycle two abreast. It is but:

      ”Many cyclists believe that the law is completely on their side with this behaviour, as the Road Code (and the underlying legal Road Rules) allows cyclists to ride two abreast. However the rules do not give cyclists the right to ride two abreast in all circumstances.”

      In the TV clips I saw, it would have been inappropriate to ride two abreast especially when a cycle lane was available and empty. Two abreast would have meant cars would have had to stop.

      Here’s an example many motorists come across…cyclists who don’t give a fug. Who are lost in lala land. That said, as both as cyclists and motorist, things can go both ways. There are some nasty motorists out there.

      http://isolatecyclist.bostonbiker.org/2013/10/07/two-older-guys-riding-side-by-side-on-a-narrow-suburban-road/

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  16th December 2019

        The LTSA must be ignoramuses. they say that it’s legal to ride two abreast except when passing vehicles. It’s obvious that there are times when it’s inadvisable to do so, of course. It seemed unnecessary to point this out. If you really are a cyclist, you should know what the law is and when discretion is needed. It’s legal to cross the road as a pedestrian, but only a fool would step out into oncoming traffic.

        How does stating that something that’s the law is legal being an ignoramus ? You say in one sentence that people who think riding two abreast is legal are ignoramuses, then quote a law that shows that it is indeed legal.

        Reply
      • Duker

         /  16th December 2019

        How can you work out which is cheaper ?
        Ask those who have to pay RUC, its paid in ADVANCE and a largish sum. petrol taxes are paid just when you buy petrol , every few days for some every 10 days for others.
        Plus there will have to be much higher costs for enforcement, as you can imagine lots of owners just dont have that money on hand to pay in advance.
        I remember the cops would set up checkpoints and wave everyone through except diesel cars and utes, to check their RUC . Trucks are another big problems as owner operators/small truck firms cut corners, plenty of court cases covering quite large amounts evaded.

        Its a more expensive way to collect the same amount of money

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  16th December 2019

          You may have a point. I don’t know. Let’s see when the policies are announced.

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  17th December 2019

          It will collect more money as otherwise electric vehicles will pay nothing. But first step would.just be to put them on RUC surely?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  17th December 2019

            Yes. What fuel tax has had going for it is simplicity for the user and the taxman. You don’t have to faff about paying separate charges & running the risk of being unable to at some point or getting into arrears.

            But it’s realised that as cars get more fuel-efficient the fuel tax take must drop, and EVs don’t require fuel so don’t pay to use the roads.

            I’d find separately paying RUCs a pain in the arse comparison to the pay-as-you-go current fuel tax system. Butthe only other way to cover a declining fuel tax take to pay for roading I guess would have to be to increase the fuel tax. Which is obviously never popular.

            Reply
  11. Duker

     /  16th December 2019

    Those who were moaning last week about the new $12 bill infrastructure fund having no projects
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405568/tauranga-courthouse-to-be-replaced-with-new-100-million-facility

    As I predicted the timing was because of Treasury financial update on this date ( not polls that were stable) and that projects would be announced separately to get the most publicity

    Reply
  12. Corky

     /  16th December 2019

    According to the gun spokes person on talkback, who had access to gunshop owners data bases, and Customes stats…only 27% of illegal firearms have been handed in.

    Looks like the gummint will have to back track on their disgusting targeting of innocent gun owners. Geez, Simon, their is fertile ground to be mined here.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  16th December 2019

      Was this person a self-appointed spokesman ?

      How did he have access to those things ? It’s odd that he was able to get into both Customs and the gun owners’ data base.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  17th December 2019

        Hacking the Customs website would only tell him how many guns had been imported and what kind they were, not how many illegal ones had been handed in. The gunowners database would be unlikely to yield this information, as not all of them had their details compromised in the recent incident.

        You don’t want to believe everything you hear on talkback.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th December 2019

      Dear me… sometimes I don’t know why I bother.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12210546

      Of course we are talking illegal registered firearms. 11 of the 14 shop data bases responded. The tally was near what the government projected.

      It’s very obvious who listens to talkback…and who interviews their keyboard.😃

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  17th December 2019

        A story in the Herald which is almost a year old is quite different (and in this case, irrelevant) to some selfstyled gun spokesman who claims to know something on talkback.

        Very few people would regard talkback radio as a reliable source of news rather than a platform for the airing of opinions not backed up by much, if anything.I prefer to get news from informed sources, not ignorant people who think themselves experts because they are let to talk on the radio. If their opinions were worth anything, they would be heard elsewhere.

        This story doesn’t back up the talkback one at all. I should have realised that it wouldn’t and not bothered to read it.

        Where is the proof of what this person (if they exist) claims ?

        If their claims are right, they will have been reported elsewhere and there’d be no point in making a revelation on redneck radio,

        Reply
  13. Corky

     /  16th December 2019

    There’s no doubt politicians read this blog to see what ideas I have to offer them.

    1- I told Labour to change leader just a few months out from an election. They did. They won.

    2- I suggested to Paula that underneath her fat was a very attractive woman. She had a tummy staple and hey presto, I was true to my word. She is even on the front cover of a woman’s mag this week ( again).

    3- I suggested to the government who initially only bought new aircraft for surveillance patrols , that drones would be the better option for 24 hour surveillance operations, especially given Aussie will also have drones. That’s the whole of Australasia under watch if we synchronise patrols. That has now happened.

    4- I was the first to tell this blog the previous governments was in talks with cards companies and that GST on all imported goods was past the talking phase and was already in progress.

    5- I forget the rest. Someone can remind me. 😂

    6 – And now Simon has taken my lead after showing him how a National party ad may look.
    Simple one and two word phases needed to come back, like…Kiwi, Not Iwi.
    So one of Nationals policies that will see problem tenants removed from state houses, has
    a a simple three word slogan:

    Remind.
    Remedy.
    Remove.

    What a vote winner. People have had a gutsful of feral tenants who advocacy groups, headed by wet middclass liberals, call the downtrodden and disadvantaged. If that’s the case, why do they smash their homes up? I thought they would be grateful for subsided shelter thanks to taxpayers?

    Proof positive Browns Gas,Taurine and a little cloud busting is the way to go.🤣

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  16th December 2019

      ”phrases”

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  17th December 2019

      Corky…you’re terrible….have you considered changing your name to…Muriel!

      Btw 20km !calling that cycling is equivalent to KC walking to the letterbox ,and calling it…going for a run.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  17th December 2019

        ”Btw 20km !calling that cycling is equivalent to KC walking to the letterbox ,and calling it…going for a run.”

        You are beginning to sound and act like, Kitty, Blazer. That’s an instant downtick. Read what I said. Then think of the different competitive cycle disciplines there are. Then consider I’m no professional. Then consider my age…I’m over 50.

        Here’s a hint… why can’t sprinters sprint for 1500 meters?😫

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  17th December 2019

          I use a Tabata rouitine.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  17th December 2019

            If you aren’t joking about the politicians reading this and following your advice, you are seriously deluded.

            You can’t imagine that Paula Bennett had a gastric bypass (not a tummy tuck which is something quite different on your say-so because YOU thought she was unattractive.

            The other things are too absurd to dignify with a response.

            Blazer, I have never claimed to have gone for a run of any kind. I have done 10km walks but don’t run nowadays.

            Reply
        • Corky

           /  17th December 2019

          Crikey, Kitty is so desperate she thinks a tummy staple is a tummy tuck. Sad, I think it’s known as professional jealousy. Of course Kitty isn’t capable of influencing anyone.
          😃🐦

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  17th December 2019

            No. I know that a gastric bypass (which the ignorant call a tummy staple) is not the same as a tummy tuck, which is why I said so (‘a tummy tuck is not the same as a gastric bypass’)…I assumed that you had imagined that she had had the former in order to appear attractive in your eyes. In fact, I doubt if she or any other politician has read anything that you say or done anything that you suggest. Your idea that you are influential is ridiculous and shows serious self-delusion, as do the rest of your egotistical claims.

            You are, needless to say, wrong about what professional jealousy is. By definition, it is someone who’s jealous of someone else in the same profession, and although I have known many MPs and some Ministers, I am not one myself and have never claimed to be one. How you can imagine that I am jealous of Paula Bennett (whose achievements I admire, and have said so) is a mystery. How you can imagine that I suffer from professional jealousy of someone whose profession I have never been in is another.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  17th December 2019

              Blazer, Munchausen would be a better name.

            • Blazer

               /  18th December 2019

              Bennetts achievements?
              From truck stop waitress and life of the party at Tattoo Club to despised politician with no positive impact…you mean.

  14. Corky

     /  17th December 2019

    Good Christian couple stick it to atheists and the Australian Rugby Union. Expect Raelene Castle to stand down soon. High five for Mikey who called this when everyone was saying Folau’s contract meant he wouldn’t succeed in any court action.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/12/israel-folau-and-wife-maria-thank-god-after-reported-lucrative-settlement-with-rugby-australia.html?__twitter_impression=true

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  17th December 2019

      That story is a fornight old and the amount has not been revealed but Raelene Castle said that it was nowhere near the amount quoted.

      The word ‘reported’ should have been a hint that this was speculation.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  18th December 2019

        Castle would say that…she is a gone burger….7 million is nowhere near…8 million.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th December 2019

      But of course. This story isn’t old. It’s just about lucky people of faith.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12294559

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  17th December 2019

        4th dimension thinking entails the past dove tailing into the future using perceptions not available to average linear thinkers…hence my posting of old stories that I suspected would culminate with Maria’s retirement from netball. That was confirmed today.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  17th December 2019

          You couldn’t have known that she was going to retire today. That has nothing to do with her being lucky or a Christian. Most netballers retire at about that age, I suspect. She’s been playing for 15 years and feels that that’s long enough.

          If you did guess that she would announce this now, why didn’t you predict it ? No doubt you will claim to have done so. But predictions after an event lack credibilty.

          Reply
  15. Gezza

     /  17th December 2019

    Erdogan continues to make himself & Turkey a force to be reckoned with:

    Erdogan threatens to shut US bases if sanctions applied
    “Turkey could shut down its Incirlik airbase that hosts US nuclear warheads in response to threats of US sanctions, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan warned.  “If it is necessary for us to take such a step, of course, we have the authority… We will close down Incirlik if necessary,” Erdogan said on A Haber TV on Sunday.

    US senators backed legislation last week to impose sanctions on Turkey over the purchase of the Russian S-400 missile defence system earlier this year and its recent military operation in northern Syria.

    Incirlik is a key airbase used by the Turkish Air Force located outside the city of Adana, about 150km from the Syrian border. Since November 2011, the US air force has flown drones from the base and has used it to carry out air raids against the ISIL (ISIS) armed group. The United States stores nuclear weapons at Incirlik as part of the legacy of the Cold War.

    Turkey can also close down the Kurecik radar base if necessary, he added. Kurecik, in eastern Turkey, is a key NATO base. “If they are threatening us with the implementation of these sanctions, of course, we will be retaliating,” he said.

    Speaking about a separate resolution passed in the US Senate on Friday recognising the mass killings of Armenians at the end of the first world war as “genocide”, Erdogan said the bill was “completely political”.

    He suggested Turkey may respond with parliamentary resolutions recognising the killings of Indigenous Americans in past centuries as genocide.

    The US Senate votes, which were immediately condemned by Turkey, were seen as the latest move to push US President Donald Trump to take a harder line against Ankara. The Trump administration has so far not imposed sanctions despite the president in 2017 signing a sanctions law that mandates financial penalties for countries that do business with Russia’s military.

    Amid already strained bilateral ties, Washington suspended Ankara from the US F-35 stealth fighter jet programme, in which it was a producer and buyer, to penalise it for buying the Russian missile system. Speaking at a conference in Qatar on Saturday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said Turkey would not cancel its deal with Russia over the S-400s “whatever the consequences”.
    -Al Jazeera

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  17th December 2019

      And …

      “Turkey began seeking oil and gas off the coast of Cyprus earlier this year, sending two drillships and an exploration vessel with UAVs escorting them. In response, the European Union has called the activities illegal and readied sanctions against Turkey.

      Ankara says that some areas in which Greek Cypriot ships operate are either on its continental shelf or in areas where the Turkish Cypriot state has rights over any finds.

      Last month, Turkey and Libya’s internationally recognised government signed an agreement on maritime boundaries in the sea. Athens has accused Turkey of violating international law with the deal, but Ankara denies the claims and says the accord aims to defend its rights in the region.”

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/turkish-drone-lands-turkish-cyprus-energy-exploration-191216104129772.html

      Also

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/turkish-navy-deports-israeli-ship-cyprus-territorial-waters-191215062253581.html

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  17th December 2019

      And

      “Turkey has moved closer to providing military support for Libya’s internationally recognised government after a bilateral deal was sent to the Libyan parliament. The agreement includes provisions for launching a “quick reaction force” – if requested by Tripoli.

      Late last month, Ankara and Tripoli signed an expanded security and military accord and, separately, a memorandum on maritime boundaries that Greece said violated international law.

      President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Sunday that Turkey was ready to provide Tripoli any military support it needed after Ankara and Libya’s internationally recognised government signed the deal.
      “We will be protecting the rights of Libya and Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean,” he said on A Haber TV. “We are more than ready to give whatever support necessary to Libya.””

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/turkish-lawmakers-sign-libya-military-support-deal-191215114132175.html

      The UN-recognised government in Tripoli has been under attack for months by the East Libyan government’s General Khalifa Haftar’s forces, who’ve been getting sly arms and support from some other countries which officially should be supporting the Tripoli regime, but aren’t.

      Erdogan’s now guaranteeing them military support because the EU / NATO haven’t done much if anything to help, militarily.

      Reply
  16. Alan Wilkinson

     /  17th December 2019

    A few interesting bits from paywalled Telegraph articles today.

    Govt to make it illegal for rail strikers to stop commuters getting to work.

    Will appoint technical and professional experts prepared to work to the House of Lords to offset all the ideological ex-politicians there.

    Focus groups show voters place jobs ahead of climate change. Solutions have to accommodate that.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  17th December 2019

      And from The Times, Boris will outlaw the extension under existing terms for a trade agreement beyond the end of next year.

      That will put a lot of pressure on the EU to get real fast and stop playing games.

      Reply
  17. Corky

     /  17th December 2019

    Excellent. We need more of this. This chap is better than our police for taking care of ferals.

    I think Bomber Brownlee would be the only New Zealand MP to have had the ”stones” to do similar. 🦾✔✔

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/watch-uk-minister-mark-field-assaults-greenpeace-activist-as-others-look-on-2056955?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=TBUS33NEAR

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th December 2019

      I stand corrected. Trevor Mallard gave Tau a hiding in a parliamentary corridor.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  17th December 2019

        On 20 June 2019, Greenpeace accused Field of assault, after a female activist who interrupted Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond’s Mansion House Speech was pushed out of the event. Field said he reacted “instinctively” and referred himself to the Cabinet Office for an investigation.

        He apologised to the Greenpeace activist for “grabbing her” and said he was worried she might have been armed.

        As a result of the incident, he was suspended as a minister on 21 June, while investigations took place. The City of London Police reviewed the events and declared that it would be taking no further action.

        When Boris Johnson became prime minister in July 2019, Field was dropped from his ministerial role at the Foreign Office as part of a cabinet reshuffle and the Cabinet Office investigation was closed as he felt that it was a “matter for the previous PM concerning his conduct during his time as a minister under her appointment”.

        In October 2019 Field announced that he would stand down from Parliament at the next general election.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  17th December 2019

          Do you think that was assault given the circumstance, Gezza? I call it fugging good riddance to a trespasser who was bent on affecting other peoples lives.

          I spoke a day or so about the power social media now holds. This story is a simple story of a man and a government who jumped before social media made their situation untenable.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  17th December 2019

            Dunno. He takes on a woman a lot smaller than him. Would he have tried it on with someone bigger than himself?

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  17th December 2019

              It wasn’t a fight, it was a removal. If it was someone larger, I would have expected other patrons to get up and help him.

            • Gezza

               /  18th December 2019

              But to answer your question properly – no, I wouldn’t call that an assault. The police didn’t either. I think the only injury she would have suffered from that was to her pride & her belief she’d get to stay longer & have to be listened to.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  17th December 2019

        Hardly a hiding. He swung a single punch.

        It doesn’t take much balls for a man to assault a woman as this man did. I hope that no NZ MP would see it as a sign of manliness to do so, and it’s an insult to someone to suggest that he would assault a woman.

        In NZ, as in the UK, assault is a crime, not an achievement.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  17th December 2019

          There is no reason to assume that Gerry Brownlee would grab a woman by the neck, push her against a wall and shove her out of the room because she was a protestor.

          I see nothing excellent about a woman being assaulted. I am no fan of Greenpeace, although I was once a member, but don’t applaud violence being used against them or any other non-violent protestor.

          .

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  18th December 2019

            there actually is good reason re Gerry ‘Craig’ a.k.a barger Brownlee to be capable of using physical force.

            As we know he didn’t like waiting at the airport…and barged his way through security with absolute contempt.

            ‘don’t you know who I am’?…um…[deleted – don’t make disparaging attacks based on physical appearance – PG]

            Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  17th December 2019

          I (don’t) wonder who downticked the idea that a man assaulting a woman isn’t behaving in a manly way and that assault is a crime.

          Reply
    • Blazer

       /  17th December 2019

      insiders say Joyce has been approached to resurrect his political career next year if the Natz polling deteriorates.

      He is seen as a popular alternative to Bridges.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  17th December 2019

        Great thinking. However, if Joyce has any moral character he would decline the invitation, unless asked by Simon. Can Joyce just step back into politics at short notice? I assume he would be a list MP. So who would slide off the ladder?

        Reply
  18. Corky

     /  17th December 2019

    Who would have guessed..not me! What do these fools expect? They are tokens to be used at the RIGHT time. They are then expected to crawl back to any bush or jungle they came from. However, I don’t know what they are complaining about. They would be considered white anyway.

    Just typical CC bs.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12294627

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th December 2019

      The two people standing don’t look white to me. The woman’s skin is quite dark brown and the man’s skin isn’t quite so dark, but no one could call it white.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  18th December 2019

      For those in need.
      https://www.specsavers.co.nz/

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th December 2019

        I have yet to see an Indian who looks like a white person as far as skin goes, and this woman is obviously Indian (the sari is a hint)

        The man’s skin is also brown.

        These are not white people.

        Reply
  19. Gezza

     /  17th December 2019

    Here you go Corks. This might cheer you up.

    “A man has been taken to hospital in critical condition after being shot by police in Flaxmere today.

    Superintendent Tania Kura said police received a report of a man making threats to a staff member at the school about 2.11pm.

    “Police were initially advised the man was carrying a firearm and attending officers were armed.

    “The man was located by police with what appeared to be a firearm and he was shot once.”

    Officers administered medical attention but the man was taken to hospital by ambulance.

    In a statement, police said cordons were in place and members of the public were asked to avoid the area.

    “Police are not seeking anyone else in relation to this incident.””

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118118311/hastings-primary-school-in-lockdown-due-to-firearm-incident

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th December 2019

      [Don’t make questionable claims on behalf of someone else – PG]

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th December 2019

        I don’t think it is questionable as the someone else has expressed pleasure before when someone has been shot and died as a result.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  18th December 2019

      That story has been updated this morning (in a separate article which otherwise just repeats earlier content):

      “A man shot by police on the grounds of a school yesterday is now in a stable condition under police guard in Hawke’s Bay Hospital

      The man, aged in his thirties, was shot on Tuesday afternoon after he walked onto the school grounds and had an altercation with a teacher while trying to enter a classroom at Flaxmere Primary School.”

      Reply
  20. Gezza

     /  17th December 2019

    Another one for Corks:

    “Defence Minister Ron Mark has confirmed he got into a scuffle with a drunk man who stole his cowboy hat.

    The NZ First MP was at a Fleetwood Mac tribute concert in Carterton on Saturday, December 7, when his cowboy hat – a regular part of his attire – was stolen by a punter he said was clearly intoxicated.

    The resulting scuffle has since been spun through the Wairarapa town’s rumour mill, and travelled over the Remutaka Range to the Beehive.

    Many privy to the rumour say Mark both threw and received a punch over the theft.

    But Mark, on Tuesday, said throwing a punch would have been a “silly thing” for a Cabinet minister to do.

    He instead said he grabbed the man by his shirt.

    “As sometimes happens, you’ve got someone who’s had a few too much to drink, tried to steal my hat and then wouldn’t give it back.

    “I asked for it back, he refused, he played silly games, hid it behind his back and in that, I grabbed him by the shirt. He eventually gave my hat back.
    …”
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118265125/minister-ron-mark-in-scuffle-over-stolen-cowboy-hat-at-fleetwood-mac-tribute-concert

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th December 2019

      Neither story has cheered me up. Neither story is related to a protester being removed from a meeting – a meeting she was prepared to illegally disrupt.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  17th December 2019

        Oh. Ok. I’ve moved on from that.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  18th December 2019

          To what?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  18th December 2019

            To two other items of today’s (now yesterday’s) news.

            The first being another shooting by armed NZ police. Does this signal a change in police response policy. Are they more ready to use their firearms now?

            The other being a politcian prepared to act like a man & stand up for himself to sort out some plomker who nicked his property, rather than just whine & / or report it to the police – something I thought you’d commend?

            Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  18th December 2019

            No, because no one was injured in this case.

            Reply
  21. Corky

     /  18th December 2019

    The Democrats obviously didn’t look across the ditch at the British elections. America will be in a whole heap of hurt with this guy at the helm. I wish Trumpy wouldn’t stand for President this time around.

    I think the question needs to be asked: Is your average Leftie thick?

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/cbs-news-battleground-tracker-showing-vermont-senator-bernie-sanders-leading-former-vice-president-joe-biden-in/

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th December 2019

      The ditch is the Tasman.

      The Atlantic between the UK and US is called the pond or the herring pond.

      Reply
  22. Corky

     /  18th December 2019

    This is what pisses me off about the media. Anything to bring down a tall poppy…even if he’s dead.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12294157&ref=clavis

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th December 2019

      The story is about Howard Morrison’s daughter and doesn’t seek to bring him down in any way. He’s only mentioned at the beginning and then it’s only to say that she’s his daughter, which she is.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  18th December 2019

        I read that article last night. While I agree that the story doesn’t bring Sir Howard Morrison down personally, and, as you say, he only gets mentioned very briefly as the fraudster’s father, I concluded quickly from this that his name featured in the article headline (& site headline) as clickbait.

        To those of a mind to blame parents for children’s behaviour I think it could be seen as reflecting badly on Sir Howard. Most sensible people one hopes would just see it as the clickbait it is though. She’s an independent adult, responsible for her own behaviour.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  18th December 2019

          ”Most sensible people one hopes would just see it as the clickbait it is though. ”

          Unfortunately most sensible people have prejudices, too. Inference is everything. By association, Sir Howard and his whanau have lost mana.

          And of course its gold for racists: Der ya go. I told you Howard got to where he got by brown nosing, It’s da only way a Mardee can succeed, apart from gummint handouts.

          Why did they have to mention Sir Howard? There was no need. The community would have known anyway… but of course, not the entire country.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  18th December 2019

            Unfortunately most sensible people have prejudices, too. Inference is everything. By association, Sir Howard and his whanau have lost mana.

            Maybe to some. To others probably not. There’s a pretty broad interpretation of mana, even among Maori I suspect.

            And of course its gold for racists: Der ya go. I told you Howard got to where he got by brown nosing, It’s da only way a Mardee can succeed, apart from gummint handouts.

            Well of course that’s true, & if they wanted some inspiration for what to say there it is. But racists will always find something negative to say about anyone in a group they target.

            Why did they have to mention Sir Howard? There was no need. The community would have known anyway… but of course, not the entire country.

            Clicks. And maybe the hope of stirring up some controversy in the hope of generating negative feedback & more stories.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th December 2019

              The explanation is probably the simple one that being the child of a celebrity means that this will be mentioned in a story like this. But that happens everywhere. If a film star’s child is done for drugs, it makes the news. Would John Kennedy’s death in a plane crash have been on the news if he hadn’t been the son of the murdered president ? The fact that Laurel Hubbard is Dick Hubbard’s daughter was mentioned constantly in the controversy over her sex change. It’s mentioned that the latest Harcourt to have a successful stage career is one of the famous acting dynasty. And so on.

              Sophie Dahl is known as the daughter of Roald Dahl as well as being famous in her own right.

              It’s all but impossible to believe that anyone would read the things into it that Corky attributes to these imaginary racists ! Why on earth would this be attributed to Howard Morrison brown-nosing to be successful ? I can’t believe that many, if any people would read the story and talk like that about it, with the possible exception of those who ring talkback radio.

              Corky’s own racist remarks, like the ones he’s made to and about Possum, make it ironic that he accuses other people of being racist. The 3 Ms are his ‘bread and butter’ (his words) Maoris, Muslims and the Middle Class.

            • Corky

               /  18th December 2019

              . ”There’s a pretty broad interpretation of mana, even among Maori I suspect.”

              As a matter of fact you are right. I’m assuming the Morrison whanaunga would have considered the offence a loss of mana. That doesn’t always follow.

              ”Clicks. And maybe the hope of stirring up some controversy in the hope of generating negative feedback & more stories.”

              While I don’t doubt that’s all true, but the press have always done this long before social media came along. And it must be remembered the press is mainly peopled by Lefties. And Lefties hate with a passion.

          • Gezza

             /  18th December 2019

            Mana

            I’ve been looking in to this in a bit more detail. This is my conclusion.

            For a Maori, mana can be inherited from an ancestor. The more senior a chiefly ancestor, the more great mana inherited, both by the successor whanau and the ancestor’s iwi/hapu.

            Mana can also be individually earned, in which case if it is great mana it is also regarded as inherited by the descendants & perhaps the iwi/hapu.

            Mana thus held by an iwi or an individual is increased by success, personal courage, actions that bring credit or benefit to the iwi, & other laudable or notable actions. It can be diminished by failure or shameful behaviour.

            Sir Howard, I believe, personally earned great mana in his own lifetime. His mana is not diminished in any way. But his daughter’s is, badly, by her actions & her conviction. And that of her whanau, and possibly, but not necessarily that of their iwi/hapu, will also be diminished in traditional Maori eyes.

            As a Pakeha attempting to get this clear from my outsider’s cultural perspective, I stand to be corrected on anything said above, & if so would like to know what is incorrect and why – but I don’t believe that Sir Howard’s mana is diminished by his daughter’s loss of mana.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th December 2019

              I can’t see anyone imagining that this affects Howard Morrison in any way. Corky is making much ado about nothing.It’s hard to believe that anyone is talking like that about it, still less saying those things and in those words.

              He’s been dead for ??? years.

              I think that most families feel the shame when one of them commits a crime like this, regardless of their race or how well-known they are. My ex’s uncle was married to a woman who was part of a ring who stole cheques from WINZ and somehow cashed them.Two of the sisters worked for the PO, I think. I can’t remember the details, only that it caused a lot of hardship as people’s money didn’t arrive and also a vast amount of inconvenience. It was instrumental in making WINZ payments be paid into bank accounts.

              The whole family was shattered when it emerged that M—— and her relations were behind this particularly mean crime. It shamed them all.

            • Gezza

               /  18th December 2019

              Mana has an element similiarity with our Pakeha concept of “family reputation”, but it’s not the same thing. It’s a broader concept than that.

            • Gezza

               /  18th December 2019

              *OF similarity…

            • Blazer

               /  18th December 2019

              I’ll make it easy…human nature is human nature regardless of colour,creed,race…

              substitute mana for…reputation.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th December 2019

              Whatever it’s called, reputation, prestige,status, honour, stature, it’s the same thing and applies to all races. It’s not exclusive to Maori. It’s one of those things that’s hard to define, but we all know what it is.

            • Gezza

               /  18th December 2019

              Even inanimate objects can have mana. It’s not as simple as being equivalent to reputation, prestige, status, honour and stature. Mana isn’t so much hard to define in English, as it is difficult to pin down in full without taking up oodles of space.

              Here’s one attempt (for the noun) by Te Aka Maori Dictionary:

              (noun) prestige, authority, control, power, influence, status, spiritual power, charisma – mana is a supernatural force in a person, place or object. Mana goes hand in hand with tapu, one affecting the other. The more prestigious the event, person or object, the more it is surrounded by tapu and mana. Mana is the enduring, indestructible power of the atua and is inherited at birth, the more senior the descent, the greater the mana. The authority of mana and tapu is inherited and delegated through the senior line from the atua as their human agent to act on revealed will. Since authority is a spiritual gift delegated by the atua, man remains the agent, never the source of mana. This divine choice is confirmed by the elders, initiated by the tohunga under traditional consecratory rites (tohi). Mana gives a person the authority to lead, organise and regulate communal expeditions and activities, to make decisions regarding social and political matters. A person or tribe’s mana can increase from successful ventures or decrease through the lack of success. The tribe give mana to their chief and empower him/her and in turn the mana of an ariki or rangatira spreads to his/her people and their land, water and resources. Almost every activity has a link with the maintenance and enhancement of mana and tapu. Animate and inanimate objects can also have mana as they also derive from the atua and because of their own association with people imbued with mana or because they are used in significant events. There is also an element of stewardship, or kaitiakitanga, associated with the term when it is used in relation to resources, including land and water.

              Then you need to look up atua.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th December 2019

              Well, I did say that we all know what it means although it’s hard to define.

              It’s like the judge who supposedly said that he couldn’t define pornography but he knew it when he saw it.

            • Blazer

               /  19th December 2019

              decided mana means…’prescence’.

    • Corky

       /  18th December 2019

      In breaking news:

      ”Mere Tekahu Terangi, daughter of council worker Matiu Terangi, has been charged with defrauding the Christchurch Bulls league club out of $40,000.”

      Yeah, no. That headline ain’t happening. Why? Because the fictional dad in my fairytale just isn’t important enough to rate a mention. He is not a tall poppy. Nobody cares about a council worker.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  18th December 2019

        Frankly Corks, a scan though the Herald & Stuff headlines on any given day shows them to be basically now a cross between Womans Day & New Idea & the good old fashioned tabloids of yore like Truth. The sensationalist style headlines quite frequently have only a minimal relevance to what most of the article is about.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  18th December 2019

          The Truth. Now there was a great paper. Pages of couples who had divorced. Pages of ferals up on drink driving charges ( common in our local paper until about 5 years ago. My guess is given 80% of those charged were Maori, the editor probably thought
          it best to stop reportage voluntarily, rather than be made to stop).

          The days of a quiet snigger are sadly long past.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  18th December 2019

            Very true. Some people can now snigger loudly & publicly on blogs & social media.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  18th December 2019

              Yes, but that’s no fun. It’s hard work. Plus it’s hard to snigger properly when you are tapping a keyboard. Well, for men, anyway. They can’t multi task.

            • Gezza

               /  18th December 2019

              It’s easier if you just chuckle. I’m quite sure Al would agree.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th December 2019

        As the council worker story didn’t happen, it’s a pointless comparison.Worldwide, the children of famous people make the news when they do things, good or bad. Would it make headlines if it had been George Windsor, son of Mr and Mrs Windsor who live in Tunbridge Wells, having his first day at school ?

        A fraud will probably be reported regardless of the name of the person.

        I can’t imagine being amused by and sniggering at accounts of drunk driving. How many people are killed and injured every year because of this ? How many millions does it cost the country ?

        Nor do I see any point in printing the reason for people’s divorces or the fact that the divorce has happened. It’s always a tragedy when a marriage ends, and the reason is no one’s business. As I understand it, Truth (ironic name) printed the names of the people and the reason for the divorce before no fault divorce came in. It was a scandal rag and won’t be missed.

        Reply
  23. Corky

     /  18th December 2019

    Crikey..Sir Ron goes down. Hadn’t he heard of the cloud.. or a ghost drive? Apparently not.
    Things may be a little awkward at the Remuera wine and cheese evening.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12294884

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  18th December 2019

      another knightmare….was always known as a frequent traveller to an exotic destination.

      Probably NZ’s most over rated businessman of all time.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th December 2019

        Reports vary. Some say it’s him, some that it’s reported to be him, some that the police haven’t named the person.

        I reserve judgement until the real facts are known.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th December 2019

          Ma’s just been on the blower. It’s all over TV3 already. She told me she heard gossip about this sort of thing & Sir Ron at her work, decades back. Who knows? Time will tell.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  18th December 2019

            Ma is correct…the rumours go back..decades.

            Ronnie loves cricket,travel and has never met the ‘one’.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  18th December 2019

              An anonymous tip. Maybe someone wanting to balance the books with utu? Maybe someone enjoying the chance to bring down a tall poppy?
              A bitter twisted socialist for example. Maybe Sir Ron didn’t pay his Telco
              bill. So many unanswered questions

            • Gezza

               /  18th December 2019

              Best leave it to the judge. I asked ma what she heard in 1985 when I went down to her place for dinner and the news. She said it was something said by some salesman when some book came out. Might’ve been Sir Ron’s book, she wasn’t sure. She gave me a bit more detail but said she didn’t give it much attention, & never said anything to anyone else and still wouldn’t – that it was nudge nudge wink wink stuff and as far as she is concerned you don’t just believe stuff like that about anybody without hard evidence.

  24. Gezza

     /  18th December 2019

    Hands up anybody surprised?

    Labour Party staffer sexual assault allegation not substantiated

    The Labour Party inquiry into a former staffer’s alleged sexual assault has found that the allegation cannot be substantiated.

    The report found inconsistencies in the alleged victim’s versions of events – particularly with regards to an email sent to the party.

    It could not establish other allegations of sexual assault against the staffer but could substantiate complaints about “aggressive and overbearing” conduct, however this did not meet a criminal standard of bullying.

    Lawyer Maria Dew conducted the inquiry for the Labour Party after the allegation was made public earlier this year. It involved interviews with the staffer, five alleged victims, and 16 others, as well as a review of over 28,000 Facebook messages and texts between the alleged victim and staffer.

    The staffer at the centre of the allegations has since resigned, but will not lose his party membership or face any other party disciplinary actions as a result of the report.

    More
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118302464/labour-party-inquiry-into-sex-assault-allegation-cannot-establish-allegation

    Looking forward to Ali Mau’s opinion piece on this. I think “Mikey”s on holiday.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  18th December 2019

      (why do so many of these millennial & younger journos & tv reporters not understand that ‘with regard to’ means ‘with reference to’, but ‘with regards to’ means “best wishes to” or “say hi to”?)

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th December 2019

        Why do people say ‘may’ when they mean ‘might’ or use ‘beg the question’ to mean that a question is called for, when it means (more or less) the opposite ?

        Reply
    • duperez

       /  18th December 2019

      What are you not surprised about? That the allegation could not be substantiated and was not substantiated?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  18th December 2019

        No – I AM surprised. By several things. I’m just going to go thru the embedded Executive Summary again & try to get my head around all the apparent goings on.

        I’m asking if anybody ISN’T surprised?

        Are you not surprised? Which bits don’t surprise you?

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  18th December 2019

          I’m not surprised..a storm in a teacup,seized upon by desperate Natz acolytes…still in..denial.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th December 2019

          I’m asking if anybody ISN’T surprised?

          Oops – I beg everyone’s pardon. I didn’t, did I? I forgot to put the NOT in.

          How embarrassing. :/

          I obviously need to come up with a Code of Proofreading.

          Reply
        • duperez

           /  18th December 2019

          I’m not surprised. Without minimising things, it’s just people. People do things, say things. I did not invest time in analysing, second guessing, coming to judgements, (especially after rushing to get there). I did not erect the gallows or prepare a rope.

          In a sense it’s ‘just another day at the office.’ I’m certainly not surprised by the reaction from some who did some of the above. It’s a pity for those who have to spend precious minutes before Christmas reworking the reasons for their condemnation of Ardern.

          It’s all a bit “Arthur Allan Thomas, you might be not guilty of murder but you over-parked while you were in the court awaiting the verdict and we’re going to slam you for that.”

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  18th December 2019

      The PM has fronted on the report and answered reporters’ questions (unfortunately inaudible) in the embedded video in the Herald’s (1st) article on the matter:

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12294999

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  18th December 2019

        Well, I don’t think the PM’s replies and earnest (though probably honest) comments are going to improve the situation. We are too used to this face accompanying explanations about awkward matters.

        I’m surprised the young woman making the complaints was in an 8 month relationship with the young man she subsequently accused of sexual assault.

        I’m surprised the report mentions the assault can’t be substantiated but goes on to say to that consent can be withdrawn at any time.

        I’m surprised the young man has resigned and the PM says she knows nothing about his current situation.

        I’m surprised there’s no disciplinary action as there does seem to have been a pattern of behaviour that they are all very uncomfortable with.

        I’m surprised both the principal complainant and the young man she accuses have had to sign confidentiality agreements and then the young lady concerned is told in the report that she will be upset at the conclusions but now she can’t say anything more about it without breaching the agreement.

        I’m surprised it’s been as messy as it has and that there are two more reports to come on the matter.

        I’ll be surprised if this is the end of the matter. It all makes the Labour Youth Party sound like as much of a poorly run shambles as the Parliamentary team.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  18th December 2019

          you are easily surprised!
          I’m surprised the young woman making the complaints was in an 8 month relationship with the young man she subsequently accused of sexual assault.’

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  18th December 2019

            Are you saying somewhere way back when you predicted here that this would be the case?

            Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th December 2019

          I should correct an earlier misapprehension of mine above:

          “…The prime minister’s spokesperson confirmed to Stuff that all complainants, witnesses, and the alleged perpetrator had been asked to sign confidentiality agreements both at the beginning of the process as a condition of their participation, and again before being allowed to read the report on Wednesday.

          He said these were not Non-Disclosure Agreements that would prevent complainants from sharing their thoughts about the report or the process.

          “It was done to ensure that personal details didn’t enter the public domain. The requests around confidentiality primarily came from the complainants,” he said.
          …”
          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118311710/labour-sexual-harassment-complainants-told-pm-of-suicide-risk-from-reports-release

          Reply
  25. Duker

     /  18th December 2019

    I it was obvious from reading between the lines of the highly biased newsroom report that broke the story that they left out important details like they were on a date….that it was even more than that and a relationship and newsroom left that out of their story. Unbelievable!
    No wonder the newsroom political editors who shared bylines along with the young woman who wrote the story, but in the days afterwards removed thier names from the story as they realized they had been misled by an ambitious journo on a ‘mission’

    Reply
  26. Duker

     /  18th December 2019

    One of the young woman’s complaints is that she provided details to the 3 people who were first reviweing her complaint , and they were sure she didn’t.
    This email was alleged to have contained an attachment detailing the alleged assault, but the report found that on “the balance of probabilities” it did not.

    She also admits that she provided false details to the enquiry……..yet the main meme of news reports is of course ….”she is devastated”.
    Nowhere is the word ‘fibber’ or equivalent used.
    Dread to think how much newsroom is going to slant all this. Haven’t looked but let me guess that the 8 month relationship or the untruths don’t get a look in

    Reply

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