Trump impeachment ‘trial’ under way in US

Donald Trump calls it a witch hunt, and the vote is likely to be highly political , but the impeachment trial is under way in the US.

Stuff is covering it ‘live’ – President Donald Trump impeachment: Watch historic vote live

Democrats are set to impeach US President Donald Trump when they bring abuse and obstruction charges against him to a full House vote.

That could take place by early Wednesday evening US time – Thursday lunchtime, New Zealand time –  making the 45th president only the third commander in chief to face that penalty.

But first, watch for a daylong showdown that’s been boiling for years between Republicans loyal to Trump and Democrats who say his conduct toward Ukraine makes him unfit for office. Look, too, for legacy moments for Washington’s political veterans on the eve of the 2020 election year.

Expect most Democrats to vote for impeachment, and all Republicans to vote against it.

A tally compiled by The Associated Press found that a majority of House members have said they will vote to approve the charges and send them to the Senate for a trial next month.

The Republican-led Senate is not expected to convict and remove Trump from office.

This may be more political circus than justice but it is newsworthy that a US president is being impeached, it doesn’t happen often.

Impeachment is supposed to be a means of holding the president and the highest political office in the Us to account for abuses of power.

Stuff:  Donald Trump blasts Nancy Pelosi in scathing letter, labels impeachment a war on democracy

US media is as divided as it’s politics.

CNN:

Fox News:

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67 Comments

  1. Zedd

     /  19th December 2019

    I listened to USA Indep. news.. Democracy NOW !

    it seems that the USA population are split 50-50 on this.. BUT many commentators are saying MrT is running the country, more like his own private business or a Monarchy. He has reportedly forgotten (OR was not aware) that politicians are bound by rules; the office is not about TOTAL self interest or adding to his private ‘Business Empire’.

    Oh Dear.. how sad… GOOD RIDDANCE !! 😀

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  19th December 2019

      Yep, Bernie will make it all go away. That includes the booming economy. I do hope the Democrats succeed..

      It was said during the Reagan era that the Secret Service nearly died from inactivity and boredom. It will be interesting to compare notes should Bernie become President, My guess is Reagan would have been party central compared with Sanders.

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  19th December 2019

        YES.. we all know you seem to think MrT is: god ?! 😦

        .. he reportedly said ‘I could walk onto 5th Ave. & shoot someone.. & get away with it !’
        I think thats called ‘Delusions of Grandeur’

        Reply
        • Zedd

           /  19th December 2019

          AlJz TV..

          a Republican Senator reportedly said (paraphrased) ‘This is like Pontius Pilate’s trial of JESUS !’

          & Pence said ‘They are trying to impeach him.. because Democrats cant beat him in the election’

          SERIOUSLY.. they’ve all gone MAD ?! 😀

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  19th December 2019

            Only a mug would count Trumpy out at the moment.` The lord moves in mysterious ways. Yeah of little faith. Next you will telling us Folau’s million dollar plus payment was a figment of my imagination.😁

            Reply
    • Pink David

       /  19th December 2019

      “GOOD RIDDANCE !”

      I hope you realise Trump has 5 more years.

      Reply
    • seer

       /  20th December 2019

      Zedd / 19th December 2019

      “I listened to USA Indep. news.. Democracy NOW !…..”
      Oh how naive you are Zedd.

      Reply
  2. Grumpy

     /  19th December 2019

    This is not the “trial”, that will be in the Senate and requires a two thirds majority to convict. This current proceeding is a decision to prosecute and only requires a simple majority in The House of Representatives.

    Reply
  3. Pink David

     /  19th December 2019

    It is the Democratic party that is on trial.

    Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  19th December 2019

    A political Xmas charade masquerading as something important. Only the media pretend so but everyone knows the script.

    Reply
    • FarmerPete

       /  19th December 2019

      Meanwhile the real crimes are being revealed by the DOJ IG, but the media isn’t really interested!

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  19th December 2019

        Thats not what the DOG IG said …but of course you are reading from what Trump said about that.
        As we found here and the GCSB background about its processes showed a lot to be desired, but the FBI sloppyness in its secret warrants applications doesnt change the final conclusions of a valid investigation was undertaken into those People connected to Trump who were Russian stooges

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  19th December 2019

          “As we found here and the GCSB background about its processes showed a lot to be desired”

          It showed a level of incompetence that would embarrass a bunch of 3yos playing detective. There was no evidence of criminal conspiracy.

          Reply
  5. duperez

     /  19th December 2019

    You have to admit that it is funny hearing very earnest Representatives today repeating ad nauseam lines about the ill of divisiveness and the need for unity.

    They have a President who seeks to divide and isolate and use resentment, anger and fear to achieve those. The classic divide and rule.

    His success as a master of the craft is demonstrated by the boldness with which his acolytes condemn what they say is in others, the modus operandi, the goal and the way of being to do with division yet which are all staunchly, proudly his.

    Reply
  6. Corky

     /  19th December 2019

    God speed, Mr President. Let those who smite you be punished for their intransigence.
    The world needs America. America needs America. And we need America. Only one man can deliver that.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  19th December 2019

      I can imagine one of Brian Tamaki’s supporters saying the same thing about him and us! It’d be in the same sort of league too.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  19th December 2019

        God speed means farewell and is said to someone setting off on a journey…I can’t see either Trump or Tamaki going without a fight.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  19th December 2019

          This time next year, after the election, you’ll be saying that godspeed meant that he wouldn’t be released.
          You forget how narrow was him winning the election last time and how bad his approval ratings are now compared to president’s who are selected. The rust belt states haven’t enjoyed much of the economic growth that’s gone elsewhere and will be easy flips

          Reply
  7. Reply
    • Duker

       /  19th December 2019

      “Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard: Perhaps the biggest surprise of the night came when Representative Tulsi Gabbard, a Democrat from Hawaii who is running for president, voted “present” on both articles.” That is abstained.
      It’s been said she is a ‘Russian asset’

      Reply
      • seer

         /  20th December 2019

        (Major) Tulsi, the Hindu Samoan, married to a Kiwi, is the only democrap candidate worth considering. But most of you blow hards, sorry type hards here probably don’t know anything about her. I became aware of her about 4 years ago when I read about the Congresswoman from Hawaii calling for the legalisation of marijuana.

        Reply
  8. Zedd

     /  19th December 2019

    First he was attacking CRAZY Hillary.. Now its CRAZY Nancy

    OR maybe.. it takes just; one to know one F@CKING CRAZY Donald.. what a pompous GIT !

    Reply
  9. Reply
  10. duperez

     /  19th December 2019

    I like this from the WP:
    “Wednesday’s 10-hour impeachment debate on the House floor and the party-line vote that followed proved that Trump’s multiyear campaign against the truth — 15,000 lies and counting — has succeeded.

    Republicans, united, didn’t spend much time defending Trump on the (unfavourable) merits. Instead, in an appalling spectacle of mass projection, they took turns accusing Democrats of the very offences Trump committed — with Trumpian language and disregard for reality.

    Reply
  11. Gezza

     /  19th December 2019

    I’m satisfied that Trump’s being impeached for something that he should be impeached for. But the whole thing’s become a farce because he’s not going to be removed from office by a trial in a Republican-controlled Senate. The posturing, overblown, offended, patriotic speeches from both sides were excruciatingly bad theatre. I couldn’t watch it for long.

    1News’s reporter was suggesting the trial was likely to be in the first week of the New Year & to last about two weeks. She said Trump was unlikely to appear. Probably just as well as he’d likely perjure himself in the first 20 minutes. And it wouldn’t make any difference to the outcome.

    Reply
  12. duperez

     /  19th December 2019

    Last word for the day should go to the man himself:🙂

    Reply
  13. Alan Wilkinson

     /  20th December 2019

    Latest news is that Pelosi is defending the Dems against accusations of playing politics with the law by playing more politics and delaying passing the impeachment to the Senate.

    Of course that will go down well with uncommitted voters – if there are any left.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  20th December 2019

      Meanwhile Putin has come out for Trump. I bet he enjoyed doing that.

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th December 2019

      “delaying passing the impeachment to the Senate.”
      practical reasons for that , its not full end of year holidays like we have but Xmas till new Year is a ‘political holiday period’
      The senate rules for impeachment require the process to begin ‘practically immediately’
      “which “shall, at 1 o’clock afternoon of the day (Sunday excepted) following such presentation … continue in session from day to day … until final judgment shall be rendered.”

      Just as importantly , the public will be otherwise preoccupied, and the live streaming of the House committee hearings had a bigger TV audience than some expected, so they will want the Senate proceedings to be ‘HUGE’ as far as ratings go as they wait to see ‘who will be fired’ !!! ( more likely the plot twists and turns and Im sure Pelosi has some up her sleeves)

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  20th December 2019

        Nope. Pelosi is doing this because she knows as soon as it goes to the Senate the Dems have lost control. But the public will see right through her on this. She is losing and knows it.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  20th December 2019

          Really . Like they say its ‘like a trial’ …guess who gets to be prosecutors… Dems have plenty of real prosecutors to chose from ..
          “For instance, 13 Republicans from the House Judiciary Committee acted as the managers in then-President Bill Clinton’s Senate trial, presenting their case for his removal over three days….”
          Trump will have his White House lawyers representing him
          The republican senators get to be ‘jurors’ while the Chief Justice gets to preside and make sure the rules are followed like any ordinary judge would..

          Trump will have enough jurors for acquittal …but the court of public opinion is now in session and thats the one that counts

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  21st December 2019

            The Senate looks likely to throw the case out on reception. If it ever gets there now. So Pelosi will dance around with it until it gets rigor mortis. Then keep picking it up and giving it a shake until it decomposes. Or she will realise it makes the Dems a bad joke and send it off for a quick burial.

            Reply
  14. seer

     /  20th December 2019

    Letter from President Donald J. Trump to the Speaker of the House of Representatives

    Law & Justice

    Issued on: December 17, 2019

    The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
    Speaker of the House of Representatives
    Washington, D.C. 20515

    Dear Madam Speaker:

    I write to express my strongest and most powerful protest against the partisan impeachment crusade being pursued by the Democrats in the House of Representatives. This impeachment represents an unprecedented and unconstitutional abuse of power by Democrat Lawmakers, unequaled in nearly two and a half centuries of American legislative history.

    The Articles of Impeachment introduced by the House Judiciary Committee are not recognizable under any standard of Constitutional theory, interpretation, or jurisprudence. They include no crimes, no misdemeanors, and no offenses whatsoever. You have cheapened the importance of the very ugly word, impeachment!

    By proceeding with your invalid impeachment, you are violating your oaths of office, you are breaking your allegiance to the Constitution, and you are declaring open war on American Democracy. You dare to invoke the Founding Fathers in pursuit of this election-nullification scheme—yet your spiteful actions display unfettered contempt for America’s founding and your egregious conduct threatens to destroy that which our Founders pledged their very lives to build. Even worse than offending the Founding Fathers, you are offending Americans of faith by continually saying “I pray for the President,” when you know this statement is not true, unless it is meant in a negative sense. It is a terrible thing you are doing, but you will have to live with it, not I!

    Your first claim, “Abuse of Power,” is a completely disingenuous, meritless, and baseless invention of your imagination. You know that I had a totally innocent conversation with the President of Ukraine. I then had a second conversation that has been misquoted, mischaracterized, and fraudulently misrepresented. Fortunately, there was a transcript of the conversation taken, and you know from the transcript (which was immediately made available) that the paragraph in question was perfect. I said to President Zelensky: “I would like you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.” I said do us a favor, not me, and our country, not a campaign. I then mentioned the Attorney General of the United States. Every time I talk with a foreign leader, I put America’s interests first, just as I did with President Zelensky.

    You are turning a policy disagreement between two branches of government into an impeachable offense—it is no more legitimate than the Executive Branch charging members of Congress with crimes for the lawful exercise of legislative power.

    You know full well that Vice President Biden used his office and $1 billion dollars of U.S. aid money to coerce Ukraine into firing the prosecutor who was digging into the company paying his son millions of dollars. You know this because Biden bragged about it on video. Biden openly stated: “I said, ‘I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars’…I looked at them and said: ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.’ Well, son of a bitch. He got fired.” Even Joe Biden admitted just days ago in an interview with NPR that it “looked bad.” Now you are trying to impeach me by falsely accusing me of doing what Joe Biden has admitted he actually did.

    President Zelensky has repeatedly declared that I did nothing wrong, and that there was No Pressure. He further emphasized that it was a “good phone call,” that “I don’t feel pressure,” and explicitly stressed that “nobody pushed me.” The Ukrainian Foreign Minister stated very clearly: “I have never seen a direct link between investigations and security assistance.” He also said there was “No Pressure.” Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, a supporter of Ukraine who met privately with President Zelensky, has said: “At no time during this meeting…was there any mention by Zelensky or any Ukrainian that they were feeling pressure to do anything in return for the military aid.” Many meetings have been held between representatives of Ukraine and our country. Never once did Ukraine complain about pressure being applied—not once! Ambassador Sondland testified that I told him: “No quid pro quo. I want nothing. I want nothing. I want President Zelensky to do the right thing, do what he ran on.”

    The second claim, so-called “Obstruction of Congress,” is preposterous and dangerous. House Democrats are trying to impeach the duly elected President of the United States for asserting Constitutionally based privileges that have been asserted on a bipartisan basis by administrations of both political parties throughout our Nation’s history. Under that standard, every American president would have been impeached many times over. As liberal law professor Jonathan Turley warned when addressing Congressional Democrats: “I can’t emphasize this enough…if you impeach a president, if you make a high crime and misdemeanor out of going to the courts, it is an abuse of power. It’s your abuse of power. You’re doing precisely what you’re criticizing the President for doing.”

    Everyone, you included, knows what is really happening. Your chosen candidate lost the election in 2016, in an Electoral College landslide (306-227), and you and your party have never recovered from this defeat. You have developed a full-fledged case of what many in the media call Trump Derangement Syndrome and sadly, you will never get over it! You are unwilling and unable to accept the verdict issued at the ballot box during the great Election of 2016. So you have spent three straight years attempting to overturn the will of the American people and nullify their votes. You view democracy as your enemy!

    Speaker Pelosi, you admitted just last week at a public forum that your party’s impeachment effort has been going on for “two and a half years,” long before you ever heard about a phone call with Ukraine. Nineteen minutes after I took the oath of office, the Washington Post published a story headlined, “The Campaign to Impeach President Trump Has Begun.” Less than three months after my inauguration, Representative Maxine Waters stated, “I’m going to fight every day until he’s impeached.” House Democrats introduced the first impeachment resolution against me within months of my inauguration, for what will be regarded as one of our country’s best decisions, the firing of James Comey (see Inspector General Reports)—who the world now knows is one of the dirtiest cops our Nation has ever seen. A ranting and raving Congresswoman, Rashida Tlaib, declared just hours after she was sworn into office, “We’re gonna go in there and we’re gonna impeach the motherf****r.” Representative Al Green said in May, “I’m concerned that if we don’t impeach this president, he will get re-elected.” Again, you and your allies said, and did, all of these things long before you ever heard of President Zelensky or anything related to Ukraine. As you know very well, this impeachment drive has nothing to do with Ukraine, or the totally appropriate conversation I had with its new president. It only has to do with your attempt to undo the election of 2016 and steal the election of 2020!

    Congressman Adam Schiff cheated and lied all the way up to the present day, even going so far as to fraudulently make up, out of thin air, my conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine and read this fantasy language to Congress as though it were said by me. His shameless lies and deceptions, dating all the way back to the Russia Hoax, is one of the main reasons we are here today.

    You and your party are desperate to distract from America’s extraordinary economy, incredible jobs boom, record stock market, soaring confidence, and flourishing citizens. Your party simply cannot compete with our record: 7 million new jobs; the lowest-ever unemployment for African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans; a rebuilt military; a completely reformed VA with Choice and Accountability for our great veterans; more than 170 new federal judges and two Supreme Court Justices; historic tax and regulation cuts; the elimination of the individual mandate; the first decline in prescription drug prices in half a century; the first new branch of the United States Military since 1947, the Space Force; strong protection of the Second Amendment; criminal justice reform; a defeated ISIS caliphate and the killing of the world’s number one terrorist leader, al-Baghdadi; the replacement of the disastrous NAFTA trade deal with the wonderful USMCA (Mexico and Canada); a breakthrough Phase One trade deal with China; massive new trade deals with Japan and South Korea; withdrawal from the terrible Iran Nuclear Deal; cancellation of the unfair and costly Paris Climate Accord; becoming the world’s top energy producer; recognition of Israel’s capital, opening the American Embassy in Jerusalem, and recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights; a colossal reduction in illegal border crossings, the ending of Catch-and-Release, and the building of the Southern Border Wall—and that is just the beginning, there is so much more. You cannot defend your extreme policies—open borders, mass migration, high crime, crippling taxes, socialized healthcare, destruction of American energy, late-term taxpayer-funded abortion, elimination of the Second Amendment, radical far-left theories of law and justice, and constant partisan obstruction of both common sense and common good.

    There is nothing I would rather do than stop referring to your party as the Do-Nothing Democrats. Unfortunately, I don’t know that you will ever give me a chance to do so.

    After three years of unfair and unwarranted investigations, 45 million dollars spent, 18 angry Democrat prosecutors, the entire force of the FBI, headed by leadership now proven to be totally incompetent and corrupt, you have found NOTHING! Few people in high position could have endured or passed this test. You do not know, nor do you care, the great damage and hurt you have inflicted upon wonderful and loving members of my family. You conducted a fake investigation upon the democratically elected President of the United States, and you are doing it yet again.

    There are not many people who could have taken the punishment inflicted during this period of time, and yet done so much for the success of America and its citizens. But instead of putting our country first, you have decided to disgrace our country still further. You completely failed with the Mueller report because there was nothing to find, so you decided to take the next hoax that came along, the phone call with Ukraine—even though it was a perfect call. And by the way, when I speak to foreign countries, there are many people, with permission, listening to the call on both sides of the conversation.

    You are the ones interfering in America’s elections. You are the ones subverting America’s Democracy. You are the ones Obstructing Justice. You are the ones bringing pain and suffering to our Republic for your own selfish personal, political, and partisan gain.

    Before the Impeachment Hoax, it was the Russian Witch Hunt. Against all evidence, and regardless of the truth, you and your deputies claimed that my campaign colluded with the Russians—a grave, malicious, and slanderous lie, a falsehood like no other. You forced our Nation through turmoil and torment over a wholly fabricated story, illegally purchased from a foreign spy by Hillary Clinton and the DNC in order to assault our democracy. Yet, when the monstrous lie was debunked and this Democrat conspiracy dissolved into dust, you did not apologize. You did not recant. You did not ask to be forgiven. You showed no remorse, no capacity for self-reflection. Instead, you pursued your next libelous and vicious crusade—you engineered an attempt to frame and defame an innocent person. All of this was motivated by personal political calculation. Your Speakership and your party are held hostage by your most deranged and radical representatives of the far left. Each one of your members lives in fear of a socialist primary challenger—this is what is driving impeachment. Look at Congressman Nadler’s challenger. Look at yourself and others. Do not take our country down with your party.

    If you truly cared about freedom and liberty for our Nation, then you would be devoting your vast investigative resources to exposing the full truth concerning the FBI’s horrifying abuses of power before, during, and after the 2016 election—including the use of spies against my campaign, the submission of false evidence to a FISA court, and the concealment of exculpatory evidence in order to frame the innocent. The FBI has great and honorable people, but the leadership was inept and corrupt. I would think that you would personally be appalled by these revelations, because in your press conference the day you announced impeachment, you tied the impeachment effort directly to the completely discredited Russia Hoax, declaring twice that “all roads lead to Putin,” when you know that is an abject lie. I have been far tougher on Russia than President Obama ever even thought to be.

    Any member of Congress who votes in support of impeachment—against every shred of truth, fact, evidence, and legal principle—is showing how deeply they revile the voters and how truly they detest America’s Constitutional order. Our Founders feared the tribalization of partisan politics, and you are bringing their worst fears to life.

    Worse still, I have been deprived of basic Constitutional Due Process from the beginning of this impeachment scam right up until the present. I have been denied the most fundamental rights afforded by the Constitution, including the right to present evidence, to have my own counsel present, to confront accusers, and to call and cross-examine witnesses, like the so-called whistleblower who started this entire hoax with a false report of the phone call that bears no relationship to the actual phone call that was made. Once I presented the transcribed call, which surprised and shocked the fraudsters (they never thought that such evidence would be presented), the so-called whistleblower, and the second whistleblower, disappeared because they got caught, their report was a fraud, and they were no longer going to be made available to us. In other words, once the phone call was made public, your whole plot blew up, but that didn’t stop you from continuing.

    More due process was afforded to those accused in the Salem Witch Trials.

    You and others on your committees have long said impeachment must be bipartisan—it is not. You said it was very divisive—it certainly is, even far more than you ever thought possible—and it will only get worse!

    This is nothing more than an illegal, partisan attempted coup that will, based on recent sentiment, badly fail at the voting booth. You are not just after me, as President, you are after the entire Republican Party. But because of this colossal injustice, our party is more united than it has ever been before. History will judge you harshly as you proceed with this impeachment charade. Your legacy will be that of turning the House of Representatives from a revered legislative body into a Star Chamber of partisan persecution.

    Perhaps most insulting of all is your false display of solemnity. You apparently have so little respect for the American People that you expect them to believe that you are approaching this impeachment somberly, reservedly, and reluctantly. No intelligent person believes what you are saying. Since the moment I won the election, the Democrat Party has been possessed by Impeachment Fever. There is no reticence. This is not a somber affair. You are making a mockery of impeachment and you are scarcely concealing your hatred of me, of the Republican Party, and tens of millions of patriotic Americans. The voters are wise, and they are seeing straight through this empty, hollow, and dangerous game you are playing.

    I have no doubt the American people will hold you and the Democrats fully responsible in the upcoming 2020 election. They will not soon forgive your perversion of justice and abuse of power.

    There is far too much that needs to be done to improve the lives of our citizens. It is time for you and the highly partisan Democrats in Congress to immediately cease this impeachment fantasy and get back to work for the American People. While I have no expectation that you will do so, I write this letter to you for the purpose of history and to put my thoughts on a permanent and indelible record.

    One hundred years from now, when people look back at this affair, I want them to understand it, and learn from it, so that it can never happen to another President again.

    Sincerely yours,

    DONALD J. TRUMP
    President of the United States of America

    cc: United States Senate
    United States House of Representatives

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/letter-president-donald-j-trump-speaker-house-representatives/

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  20th December 2019

      I prefer his tweets.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  20th December 2019

        Tell Hilary about the ‘partisan star chamber House’
        ‘Ten investigations were conducted into the 2012 Benghazi attack, six of these by Republican-controlled House committees. Problems were identified with security measures at the Benghazi facilities, due to poor decisions made by employees of the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security, and specifically its director Eric Boswell, who resigned under pressure in December 2012.[1] Despite numerous allegations against Obama administration officials of scandal, cover-up and lying regarding the Benghazi attack and its aftermath, none of the ten investigations found any evidence to support those allegations.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigation_into_the_2012_Benghazi_attack

        The only thing anybody now remembers is they found Clinton used a ‘home server’…..Benghazi …wheres that .

        But the public will find out that Trump was cutting spending on ‘fixing corruption problems’ including Ukraine and elsewhere.

        and after Nixon ( he refused to spend lawfully appropriated money) laws were changed to actually make what Trump did in withholding money to be illegal
        https://www.justsecurity.org/67489/trumps-hold-on-ukrainian-military-aid-was-illegal/
        Deferrals are only allowed to
        (1) to provide for contingencies;
        (2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or
        (3) as specifically provided by law.

        The White House knew it was illegal, as various meetings ( this is a bureaucracy !) were held to tell the WH what they had to do to make it legal. Eventually time run out to spend it within the allocated period.!

        However Trump thinks hes ‘beyond the law’ and brazenly says that anyone holding him to account is acting ‘illegally’ ….pleeeeze

        Reply
      • seer

         /  20th December 2019

        Alan, naturally, the President’s tweets have more jab, but the Whitehouse statement is a comprehensive barrage! Some commentators have speculated it will by revisited many times before the 2020 election. It must be the first official Presidential/Whitehouse statement to have motherf****r in it!?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  20th December 2019

          Yes, it was a good rant now that I have time to read it. People reading it in 100 years time will have a chuckle. But most people won’t read it. They will continue to rely on tweets.

          Reply
  15. duperez

     /  20th December 2019

    All of the events have unfolded in front of us in a bewildering mass. So many plots and sub plots and ebbs and flows which do justice to the complex, multifaceted multi-peopled place.

    And every now and thing one bit comes up which is lost in the mire yet by itself would be interesting.

    Like: How come a private citizen can brag about having ‘got rid of’ an ambassador of a country, an ambassador to a major partner, yet it’s no big deal? And say he needed her “out of the way” so helped get rid of her. After those she worked for had acknowledged there were no problems with the way she was doing her job?

    ‘Little’ bits like that made it amusing watching all the references yesterday to dangers to democracy.

    I suppose it’s all just normal transmission in a world where no doubt where all Americans have been warned about not going into any Saudi consulates anywhere in the world.

    Reply
  16. Reply
    • Corky

       /  20th December 2019

      Not good. Not good at all.

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  20th December 2019

      Billy Graham’s evangelical anti-abortionists should be the final word on morality of course.

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  21st December 2019

      I enjoyed seeing what the editor of Christianity Today looks like and sounds like. The best bit of the interview with him though is Representative Barry Loudermilk from Georgia saying that Pontius Pilate afforded more rights to Jesus Christ than the Democrats afforded Trump during the processes which have been going on.

      I guess when Trump is re-elected and Loudermilk’s party controls the whole shebang the old age rules will be rewritten to not allow such unfairness and illegitimacy. In the meantime Loudermilk can be a little beacon of why they have the turmoil they do.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  21st December 2019

        ”I enjoyed seeing what the editor of Christianity Today looks like and sounds like. ”

        Sounds to me reasonable, well spoken and concise.

        I think a table thumping wide eyed Appalachian preacher with snakes down his strides, may have been a better choice of clip. That fits the image liberals have of dem dumb christian hicks.

        Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  21st December 2019

      “Galli also said that Trump “has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration” and that his Twitter feed “is a near-perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused,” NBC News reports.”

      Reply
  17. duperez

     /  20th December 2019

    Sometimes the way things are said and arranged in the news is quite funny.

    “Senator Lindsey Graham, a staunch Trump GOP ally, emerged from a White House meeting with the president with a message.

    … “I just left President Trump. He’s mad as hell …”

    The sub editor or whoever is responsible for the headline had a but of fun too I think:
    ‘Mad as hell’: Donald Trump hits back over impeachment twist.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12295825

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th December 2019

      Another one , which was a sort of mirror on the republicans .
      One Senator /Congressman called the House impeachment process ‘a Goat Rodeo’
      I suppose they are a thing in the US, but it could as well apply to the Trump presidency

      Reply
  18. Patzcuaro

     /  21st December 2019

    Trump believes that Ukraine interferred in the 2016 Presidential election because Putin told him that they did! Gullible?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/20/latest-russia-bombshell-bolsters-democrats-demand-evidence/

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  21st December 2019

      You think Trump believes everything he says? Gullible. Putin probably told Trump Ukraine interfered and Trump reported it. Doesn’t mean he believed it or it is the only reason he believed it. Interpretation is in the mind and motive of the anonymous source. We know whst WaPo’s is.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  21st December 2019

        hes President , if hes doesnt believe it, he shouldnt say it or even ‘let it go’ , but know he doesnt do even that.
        Any way now like any trial , words can come back to bite you and the court of public opinion will be listening.
        ‘Donny Two Face’ isnt the nick name he will want for all of 2020

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  21st December 2019

      “Trump believes that Ukraine interferred in the 2016 Presidential election because Putin told him that they did! Gullible?”

      I wonder who the gullible one is.

      https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  21st December 2019

        You mean these bits

        “The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.
        Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services, according to U.S. intelligence officials. They reportedly briefed Trump last week on the possibility that Russian operatives might have compromising information on the president-elect. And at a Senate hearing last week on the hacking, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said “I don’t think we’ve ever encountered a more aggressive or direct campaign to interfere in our election process than we’ve seen in this case.””

        “There’s little evidence of such a top-down effort by Ukraine. Longtime observers suggest that the rampant corruption, factionalism and economic struggles plaguing the country — not to mention its ongoing strife with Russia — would render it unable to pull off an ambitious covert interference campaign in another country’s election.”

        Reply
  19. Patzcuaro

     /  21st December 2019

    Nancy Pelosi has invited Trump to deliver the State of the Union speech to Congress on Feb 4th 2020, Trump has accepted, should make for interesting dynamics.

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  21st December 2019

      This is a good one;

      “Donald Trump is the second President to be impeached for fucking Hillary Clinton.”

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  21st December 2019

        A little crude but did make me smile, on the other hand, Trump has really been impeached for having sexual relations with the Constitution.

        Reply
  20. Patzcuaro

     /  21st December 2019

    Moscow Mitch

    Reply
  21. duperez

     /  22nd December 2019

    Well, there’s a surprise,
    ‘Trump administration officials froze US$391 million in military aid to Ukraine just 91 minutes after the president spoke with Zelensky.’

    Reply

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