Waitangi Day 2020

I’m a long way from Waitangi day geographically  – it seems to be a northern Māori and politician dominated event.

I’ve always been quite  distance from it emotionally as well, never having felt much of a connection to the occasion.

And I’m not much into pomp and ceremony either.

That’s the context for a few talking points.

I presume most of the political posturing is over, that seems to be what some of them do in the preceding days.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has read ‘her prayer’ at the dawn service.

“Today we pray for our people, our history, and our future”.

I guess she has to say something like that, but I’ve never been into praying, I’d prefer religion was left out of things in a secular country.

“On this 180th Waitangi Day let us pledge to take us across the bridge between two peoples”.

“Give us the courage to learn to walk comfortably in each others shoes”.

“May we unite in kindness and care toward one another”.

‘Pledge’ sounds better. This sounds a bit flowery but ok, except that “across the bridge between two people” suggests quite a divide, and I think things are a lot more complex “two peoples” – there are many families of ‘two peoples’, or three or more.

There’s some pretty stark ‘them and us’ stuff obvious in places like Kiwiblog comments, but we would be better off for looking at common ground and common purpose more. This means accepting more Māori culture and input but I think that is good and necessary, to go with whatever other cultures that have been imported and have evolved.

And problems that affect Māori more, and have struggled with imported type solutions that haven’t solved things, should try more of a Māori orientated approach, including al of health, education, social welfare and crime.

What does Waitangi Day mean to you? He aha te tikanga o te Rangi o Waitangi ki a koe?

As I said, not much, but Stuff give Mai Chen, Jim Bolger, Jeremy Wells, Meng Foon, Matthew Tukaki, Mike Smith, Jeremy Corbett and Georgina Beyer a say.

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32 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  6th February 2020

    Andrew Little had a chance to discuss the gross failures of the justice system at the top, bottom and middle of the cliff. Did he take it?

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th February 2020

      Any ‘justice system is a failure’ when you think happy thoughts . Its like expecting a hospice to be a ‘success’ – the most overused and incorrectly used word of the last 30 years.
      Prisons can only do do what they can for the inmates , its not designed to ‘turn their lives around’ . Thats something that comes from within, after the first sentence for some , others takes 50 + convictions.
      Had to laugh about the group who got massive sentences for the drug importation this week. The Serbian national found out that NZ prisons unlike France’s doesnt allow sporting activities like ‘ultra marathons’. Didnt do anything for his rehabilitation either as it was just a folly and here he is now with a sentence of around 25 years- likely to serve 7 or so before being deported

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  6th February 2020

        The justice system serves those who run it. The rest are mostly just collateral damage AFAICS. Restitution is rarer than hens’ teeth and rehabilitation less likely than regression. Most prisoners sucked in get spat out in a worse state than they went in and soon return. Rampant mental health issues go untreated. Gang associations are strengthened not weakened. Job prospects and families are weakened not strengthened.

        The money and effort wasted on Waitangi rhetoric would be better spent addressing these big elephants in the cultural room.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th February 2020

          Sometimes prison, like living on the streets, is a far better choice than some so called ‘family homes’ for young people. Its either family violence at an extreme level or just neglect .
          The idea that rehab for people ‘locked up’ can be anything other than rudimentary misunderstands how difficult rehab can be even for people who lead mostly structured middle class lives.
          Like rehab outside multiple prison sentences can sometimes be successful too. The ‘being there effect’
          We now have the ‘community sentences’ enforced with a bracelet , but does that really lower recidivism outside the group who the first sentence changes their ways ( like the white middle class woman I knew of who had a 15 month ‘bracelet sentence’ for something connected to hard drugs, but I dont think she really changed apart from ‘growing up’ and it wouldnt have achieved anything in a real prison. Maybe she has a family of her own now and is 15 yrs wiser – that will change her much more)

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  6th February 2020

            Your example illustrates the point I was getting to that rehabilitating most criminals means helping them to build better relationships. That’s an all round challenge the justice system seems to fail dismally.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  6th February 2020

              I used to see ‘Anklet Boy’ on the bus, he was doing some sort of training course by the look of it. The only time I heard what he was saying to someone made it clear that he wasn’t such a mug as to do any actual work, haha, he knew better than that. I can’t remember his words, of course, but it was to that effect. One is too small a sample to prove anything, of course, and I don’t think that all those who are given a second chance act as he did. But what a waste.

            • Duker

               /  6th February 2020

              Youth is wasted on the young, so it seems is home detention. I think it’s worth a try for the first time but may have little effect till they are older.
              Yet we have some people who see the ever increasing prison numbers and say it’s not working…hell they didn’t have home detention 25 or more years ago, now there’s home detention for those that don’t go to jail, pre release home detention for those leaving jail and so on.
              The Norwegian Police has 16000 employees yet that have a far lower crime rate and smaller prison population.
              NZ does policing on the cheap and pretend it’s 1950s and doors can be left unlocked , we probably need 15000 police and 5000 support staff to make a real difference and with those numbers spread where the crime is not evenly to have police stations in small towns for political reasons.

  2. Corky

     /  6th February 2020

    Waitangi Day: the official divide between two people masquerading as the coming together of two people. I notice an official museum for Maori service people has been opened in the North. It’s one of many memorials opened for ‘Maori’ over the years. Now, if it’s funded by Maori and upkept by Maori, that makes it none of my business. However, that usually isn’t the case.

    Like many, the day means little for me. I coyly admit my 30cc Ryobi weedeater is where it’s at for me today. I doubt I’d be admitting that if I was a Yank, and this was July 4th.

    Reply
  3. adamsmith1922

     /  6th February 2020

    Waitangi Day dawns and Ardern lectures us again.

    Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  6th February 2020

    Wow, the two Maori rightwing party leaders are not there but the” white” female PM Jacinda Ardern is there representing New Zealand.There’s nothing as sad as a rightwing Maori redneck pretending they are white and don’t respect the meaning of the day

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th February 2020

      You havent been keeping up
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/408865/destiny-church-leader-brian-tamaki-expected-to-blast-government-at-waitangi

      Where would Waitangi day be without the media emphasising conflict and disharmony …like a TV reality show it gets better clicks.
      Notice how the wording says ‘expected to blast’, done like a true pre screening teaser

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  6th February 2020

        Well, he called immigrants parasites and other friendly epithets, which hasn’t gone down too well. I would guess that Hannah put him up to it. Not the time or place, Brian.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  6th February 2020

      It’s ‘Browneck’, Lurchy

      I think it’s good RIGHTIES aren’t there. They are demarcating themselves from liberal drips who think we’ll one day be one people and Waitangi will be a day with no angst. It won’t EVER happen. Young Maori are already working on modern treaty grievances. However, let’s be fair here. As Duker says, the media highlights grievances that only form a small percentage of Waitangi celebrations.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  6th February 2020

        “two Maori rightwing party leaders are not there” … just say you missed it , we understand

        Reply
      • Duker

         /  6th February 2020

        To some extent Corky you are right -“Young Maori are already working on modern treaty grievances.”

        I noticed this in a story about Littles ( Minister of Treaty negotiations) speech
        “Another fundamental problem is the unresolved issue of He Whakaputanga, the declaration of independence signed by Ngāpuhi chiefs and the Crown before the Treaty of Waitangi, and which the Waitangi Tribunal said in 2011 meant they had never agreed to cede their sovereignty.”
        https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/interactive/the-declaration-of-independence

        However with that ‘Declaration of independence ‘ before the Treaty , it was later superceded. No ‘unceding’ allowed or choosing from the documents signed which one now suits you best.

        Same was said of the ‘Littlewood’ Treaty of Waitangi, a draft version from the day before the signing. What ever it says , it was superseded by what was signed on the day.

        Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  6th February 2020

      Enlighten us, Lurch. What is the meaning of the day?

      Reply
  5. 6/2/20 Bob Marley OM; would be 75 yrs (RIP)

    Reply
  6. Corky

     /  6th February 2020

    Bishop Brian is right ( for once). Immigrants are a problem. But only because we don’t have our founding cultures protected from immigration. Japan and China are examples of Nations that make it quite clear to immigrants who is in charge. We believe in this process called integration. In other words, Tooth Fairy stuff. However, don’t blame immigrants, blame successive governments who have pandered to the UN and not upheld our sovereignty. Oh, to have someone like President Trumpy in charge of our country. As it is we only have Jacinda or Simon to be the leader of our pack.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/supporters-cheer-as-brian-tamaki-blasts-parasite-immigrants-at-waitangi-day-service.html

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th February 2020

      Your family were immigrants to NZ, as was mine in the 1850s and 60s.
      China and Japan have core cultural and ethnic heritage that goes back well over 1000 years. Even when China was dominated by non Han people they adopted Chinese characteristics whole heartily.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  6th February 2020

        We have two founding cultures bound (?) by a treaty. That is our core ethnic heritage. There were other people in New Zealand before the arrival of Maori, but they were killed, fled or disappeared elswhere.

        So, let’s get this on record, Duker: you see no problems with our present immigration numbers and policies?

        Reply
    • duperez

       /  6th February 2020

      Immigrants are a problem. Our founding culture should have been protected from immigration. The Treaty didn’t do it.

      Reply
  7. Corky

     /  6th February 2020

    It’s a well know fact in our tribe ( and others). Stories are told of the pale skin folk who helped some of my ancestors when they became lost and disoriented.
    Until Tuhoe allows inspection of their well protected sacred sites I cannot argue the point. And such folklore must remain mythical.

    BTW – why did Richard Prebble put a lock on information about the Waipoua stone relics until 2050 if I remember correctly?

    https://www.secretland.co.nz/gary-cook-blog/faery-realms/the-forest-dwellers-nz/

    Reply

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