Jacinda Ardern versus Shane Jones

It looks like Shane Jones chances of getting help from Labour in the Northland electorate are not flash. Jacinda Ardern took a swipe at Jones yesterday, and Jones responded.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern urges voters to condemn Shane Jones’ comments

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has delivered her strongest rebuking of NZ First MP and Minister Shane Jones yet, suggesting that if he was a Labour MP, he would face demotion.

She also urged voters to condemn Jones’ comments – which have been labelled “racist” and “irresponsible” by the Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon – and to “act on their values when it comes to election time”.

“We are in an election year and that has, I think, driven electioneering out of some of the different parties that are in Parliament – that includes parties in the Government.”

What she had already said publicly was the “strongest condemnation I could possibly give [Jones’] comments”.

She again cited the fact that Jones being in a different party to Labour as the reason why she has not gone further in her reprimand.

“If I had a member within my own party making statements like that, I would have a very obvious ability and course of action that I could take,” she said.

“I could demote, I could reprimand; [there is] a range of things that I could do.”

But all those things were off the table because – although Jones is one of her ministers – he is in a different political party.

Interview transcript (The Spinoff) : Not fair to punish me for the opinions of others: Jacinda Ardern talks to the Indian Weekender

‘If this is not racism, what is?’ NZ Indian community leaders on Shane Jones

Challenged this week over Shane Jones’s comments about Indian students, NZ First Party leader and deputy prime minister Winston Peters insisted that he had been ‘expressing the views of some in the local Indian community’. This week the Indian Weekender newspaper editor Sandeep Singh sought the views of the community directly. Here’s what they said

Shane Jones responds to Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s comments on Indian students saga

“I’m not going to accept the Indian radicals shutting me down … I’m surprised by the over-reaction … initially a lot of the pressure against me has come from the radicals in the Indian community.”

However, he’d “never, ever engage in a slanging match with the Prime Minister”.

“She’s a brilliant politician and when the Prime Minister speaks she never says anything wrong, but there is a difference in perspective between what New Zealand First would like to see in terms of these dodgy language schools and the flow of immigration into New Zealand, and from our other two parties, and I accept that’s just the MMP rub.”

He understood the Prime Minister was disappointed.

“But hey I’m a 60-year-old generational style politician and I’m not going to accept that the Indian activists and the Indian radicals are going to close me down as a racist.

“My whakapapa in New Zealand goes back a thousand years and I’ll be taking not one iota of difference from the Indian radicals.”

Asked if the coalition agreement prevented Ardern from disciplining him, Jones said his comments “have nothing to do with the business of me being a regional development minister”.

“This is an MMP environment. I’ve done nothing more than state something our party was elected to push forward, which was a more measured population policy.”

This will likely continue to play out at least up to the election.

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28 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  7th March 2020

    hardly racism.
    Indians have big influence in Labour.
    Bridges is not a big fan…would prefer 2 Chinese or 1 Chinese and 1 filipino to…2 Indians!

    Reply
  2. Corky

     /  7th March 2020

    I’m an Indian fan. Jonsey claims much of his information came from the Indian community. He had a great interview with HDA…but I’m none the wiser. As for the immigration issue. The horse has bolted..we are now swimming in the wake.

    Here’s a hint for Simon. Votes guaranteed. Disestablish the The Race Relations Office.
    .

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  7th March 2020

      Are you a fan of the 172,000,000 Indian Muslims ?

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  7th March 2020

      195,000,000

      I have only meet one small group of Indian Muslims on an orchard a friend owns. Their ignorance of Western culture was appalling. They asked me if it was true that we show pornography to our young. I pointed to other workers on the orchard and told them if they caught anyone showing porn to their kids they would probably kill them. I used a bad analogy and said what they ( Muslims) believe about porn and Westerners is like Westerners believing most Indians practice Yoga. The elder of the group fired up and said”we don’t believe in that.” At the time I did not know they where Muslims. I thought they were part of one of the many religious sects from India.

      So, no, I’m no fan. Muslims should be banned from entering our country and the West. However, let the innocent go in peace. If they cause us no problems then we let them be.
      It’s too late anyway. The West is full of woke fools who just can’t grasp reality.And when they do eventually come face to face with reality, they panic and have to be tasered like the Aussie who started fighting over toilet paper.😀

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  7th March 2020

        You said you were a fan of Indians. Indian Muslims are Indians.

        How did you find out that these people were Muslims, anyway ? This story is a little far-fetched even by your standards.The idea that people from India wouldn’t know about ‘Western’ culture is not credible. They do have television, newspapers and cinemas there, after all.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  7th March 2020

        Habib, another Muslim Indian, was banging my friends sister. Well educated from spending time at an Aussie University, he was a knockout with the ladies. He would translate for other Indians on the orchard if they couldn’t understand something.

        Years later, I was talking to my friend and we got to talking about those I had worked with.
        He said Habib and other Indians had come to him to ask if they could put the tools from a small shed into the main shed so they could have a prayer room. Everything then fell into place.

        Sorry to disappoint you. But at least you can live life through my experiences and knowledge of things you have no idea of.😃

        Indian Muslims are Muslims first. And they are Muslims. What’s the problem?

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  8th March 2020

          The problem is that you invent improbable stories to add verisimilitude to your bigoted and ignorant views (you didn’t know, for example, that yoga is Buddhist) and expect people to believe them.You claim to know someone who…to have seen….to have a relly who…to have done… This is called over-egging the pudding.

          If someone was university educated, why were they working in an orchard ?

          What is the likelihood of someone asking if people in NZ showed porn to their children? 0 ?

          If he was a devout Muslim, he wouldn’t be having sex outside marriage, or would be highly unlikely to do so.

          As for the shed; a prayer mat can be spread anywhere.I believe that it needn’t be indoors. If someone wanted to use a shed for that purpose, they could just move the tools out and then back in.

          I can’t imagine being idiotic enough to experience life through YOUR limited experience. Unlike you, I know Muslims. I have been to mosques. I have been in a Muslim country and a number of other countries (I lived in Europe and England for a while). I have a Muslim GP and have been treated by other Muslim doctors. I live where Muslim translators who risked their lives working for NZ live. I don’t get my information from discredited and bigoted websites like the one that said that the pub in England was wrecked by Muslims when the video footage shows that the damage was done by the patrons as the Muslims walked past in the street.

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  8th March 2020

          Sometimes it’s too easy. But when you are out to point score, facts are left behind.

          1- Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism practice yoga. However in the context of my comments any fool could see the analogy I was using. So they wouldn’t have wasted time commenting on the obvious.

          2- ”If someone was university educated, why were they working in an orchard ?”

          Now here is a fair question. As I understood it he had a degree in horticulture. He was gaining practical experience. He had worked on an Aussie mango farm. However, he was advised NZ’s apple industry was the best in the world for growing, harvesting, processing and marketing. On my friend orchard he was a tractor driver for half the day, then moved to the packhouse with a mentor. That’s all I know apart from the fact he spoke fluent English. Oh, apple growers in NZ have a 9 part spaying schedule that must be adhered to before export is allowed. He was also being schooled in that and the use of a bio-hazard suit.

          ”If he was a devout Muslim, he wouldn’t be having sex outside marriage, or would be highly unlikely to do so.”

          I wouldn’t know his personal life.

          ”As for the shed; a prayer mat can be spread anywhere.I believe that it needn’t be indoors. If someone wanted to use a shed for that purpose, they could just move the tools out and then back in.”

          True..but the workers were spreading their mats between the rows and pissing off non Muslims and bin operators. You don’t touch other peoples property without asking. It’s called good manners. And the amount of tools was not small.

          As for your experience with Muslims…it’s more far fetched than mine. Pity there wasn’t a wider audience for these comments by people who know. Then we would find quick smart who has had the real experience.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  8th March 2020

            It wasn’t an analogy; it was an ignorant mistake.

            The idea that someone who was university educated in the West was ignorant of ‘Western culture’ is hardly credible. I wonder why ‘Habib’ didn’t work on an Australian orchard ?

            Your determination to have the last word, regardless of how improbable this is and how absurd it makes you look is pathetic.You run on the spot to cover up your absurdities with further ones.

            What is far fetched about the fact that there are many Muslims in the Waikato and that translators who assisted NZ came to Hamilton ? There is a large mosque in Hamiton. It’s an obvious place to come. I don’t make ridiculous claims that are obvious fabrications. There are two Muslim GPs in the practice I go to, one is Malaysian and one is Nigerian; another one will be joining them soon. He was a registrar there before he qualified. No, I will not name them. There are also Muslim doctors at Waikato Hospital. There is a Muslim woman chemist in a Centreplace Pharmacy. It would be difficult not to have contact with Muslims here. They’re part of the community. School uniforms and even Pak & Save ones have a Muslim version; the Pak & Save one is more covered up and like the schools, has a hijab in the uniform colour.

            There is even a small mosque in Huntly now.

            They have open days at the mosque and I have been to them.I have also visited one in Fiji.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  8th March 2020

            ”It wasn’t an analogy; it was an ignorant mistake.”

            Really..how?

            ”The idea that someone who was university educated in the West was ignorant of ‘Western culture’ is hardly credible.”

            Where did I say Habib was ignorant of Western culture? You need to read what I write..not what you hoped I wrote.

            ”I wonder why ‘Habib’ didn’t work on an Australian orchard ?”

            That has already been explained… read my posts.

            ”Your determination to have the last word, regardless of how improbable this is and how absurd it makes you look is pathetic.”

            Funny you mentioned that. I was just counting up last words on this blog. I usually give up when it’s obvious you have no interest in continuing the debate after being proven wrong…. usually when you start posting absurdities.

            ”You run on the spot to cover up your absurdities with further ones”

            All my posts are logical and concise. When I’m asked to clarify. I do that. The bulk of your posts are just rhetoric and denigration.

            Look, I’m sure you know some Muslims. But you haven’t interacted with them like I have. I have been in two altercations with them. Talked to them as per above. And yes, our supermarket has two Muslim woman employees. One very nice and attractive…the other surly. And yes. I’m sure 99.99% of them aren’t terrorist. and on it goes.

            So, let’s look at the post that started your tirade.

            ”Corky / 7th March 2020
            I’m an Indian fan. Jonsey claims much of his information came from the Indian community. He had a great interview with HDA…but I’m none the wiser. As for the immigration issue. The horse has bolted..we are now swimming in the wake.
            Here’s a hint for Simon. Votes guaranteed. Disestablish the The Race Relations Office.”

            Enough said.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  8th March 2020

              The conversation sounds inherently improbable and the whole post is extremely contrived and contradicts itself.

              Two altercations is hardly indicative of wide experience, even if one accepted that the conversation in the orchard happened, which is so unlikely that it can probably be dismissed.

              It’s possible that you believe your own stories and fantasies, of course.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  7th March 2020

    NZF need votes so no chance Jones will be silenced. Indian business folk are not their target demographic.

    Reply
  4. david in aus

     /  7th March 2020

    Has Labour ruled out New Zealand First as a coalition partner? Surely, that is a way to condemn Shane Jones.

    Otherwise, a vote for Labour is a vote for New Zealand First.

    Reply
  5. Maggy Wassilieff

     /  7th March 2020

    Goodness, gracious me, Indian radicals and Indian activists trying to close down a NZ Cabinet minister.

    I do hope our PM goes and tell them off for being so naughty.

    Reply
  6. NOEL

     /  7th March 2020

    “The Human Rights Act does cover serious threats to racial harmony. Section 61 of the Act makes it unlawful to publish material which is, ‘threatening, abusive or insulting,’ and ‘likely to excite hostility’ against a group of people or bring them into contempt on the ground of their colour, race or ethnicity. This means that it is not enough that the material offends the people who read it – it has to have the potential to excite hostility in those who hear or read it.

    While the right to freedom of expression is not absolute, one of the important considerations in establishing what makes a comment ‘unlawful’ is s.14 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 which sets out the right of freedom of expression. Freedom of expression means people can make highly controversial or unpopular remarks.”

    Jones say it wasn’t racist and I believe those arguing it was haven’t established that.

    Mind you they could do a the same as the other Jones and collect enough money to test it?

    Reply
  7. David

     /  7th March 2020

    Ardern just gave NZ First the boost they needed, she just encouraged anyone with a worry about immigration especially the huge numbers of Indians we have seen in recent years and the myriad prosecutions of them for labour and tax law breaches to give their vote to NZ First.
    Ardern is enabling racism, racism adjacent if you like, hoping to get another couple of percent and get NZ First over the 5%. It was the only path for her as there was no way he was going to win Northland even if Labour stood aside. She is quite the cynical operator and learned the dark arts under Hulun

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  8th March 2020

      Shock, horror, a politician, the leader of party no less, a cynical operator? Wow! That’d be a first. And learned the ‘dark arts?’

      Now, with the melodramatic bits out of the way, the other bit.

      ‘Hulun?’ You have to be kidding.

      Reply
  8. alloytoo

     /  7th March 2020

    Ardern has just admitted her government is not fit for future purpose.

    Then why is it fit for current purpose?

    Reply
  9. Conspiratoor

     /  7th March 2020

    To be fair the Indian community has just burned him in effigy during Diwali so he was understandably a little aggrieved..

    “”I challenge anyone in New Zealand to disagree with me in terms of the sad regularity with which we are seeing egregious cases of abuse, in the media, coming from the Indian migrant community upon their own. In fact, they’re appearing in courts with more regularity than the Mongrel Mob.””

    Not even close shane..

    In 2015 nine percent of the prison population was Mongrel Mob. By 2018 the number had climbed to around 11 percent

    Reply
    • NOEL

       /  8th March 2020

      Technical point Court appearance not convicted of an offense liable for imprisonment.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  8th March 2020

        Mongrel Mob get long sentences. He was only saying ‘appearing in courts’…I presume he means newspaper reports of court appearances

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  8th March 2020

          This is true however he used the words ‘egregious cases of abuse’. The word egregious has two meanings ‘outstandingly bad; shocking’ or ‘remarkably good’. One presumes he was using the former in respect of Indian migrants. In which case his claim would appear to be an exaggeration since these shocking crimes don’t appear to be reflected in their incarceration rates

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  8th March 2020

            Seems to me Shane’s just exaggerating with dog whistling statements that will appeal to those Kiwis with anti-Indian-immigrant sentiments, in the time-honoured tradition of his party & leader, knowing that there have been some well-reported cases of Indian migrant exploitation & English language student scams.

            They’re the sort of sweeping remarks he knows the media won’t check the facts of; that they’ll be lazy & happy enuf to play along with by just publicising his comments, & of those claiming “Jones is a racist”, giving him the opportunity to play the “nobody is going to shut me down from telling the public the truth” card.

            He obviously figures they’ll get more votes from this strategy than they’ll lose. It’s worked well for them in the past.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  8th March 2020

              Peters could get away with a lot of his comments on Maori because he was maori himself from an impoverished background.
              NZF might find it needs an Indian MP/official of its own to say a lot of these things
              of course I would only listen to those naysayers to Jones who are Indian themselves other than the usual culprits in the “wokeroom’ website

            • Conspiratoor

               /  8th March 2020

              I tend to agree G. However when the pubic face of the indian community is the hard working fellow on the counter at the local dairy, how the devil is shane going to convince voters they are in any way comparable to the mongrel mob? Does he think we are stupid?

              Good to see you back by the way

            • Gezza

               /  8th March 2020

              @c

              “Does he think we are stupid?”

              He’s not aiming his remarks at the smart folk.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  8th March 2020

            Egregious used to mean outstanding or remarkable, but it’s been used in a negative way since the mid-Victorian era at least. An 1877 dictionary confirms this.

            Reply

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