Open Forum – Saturday 28 March

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57 Comments

  1. David

     /  28th March 2020

    Finally she is getting a little tougher at the border and isolating people, I was delighted to read the moaning from detainees who had just arrived. Dont travel fools its an epidemic and you are spreading it.
    Meanwhile in Spain, Italy, UK and pretty much everywhere else on lockdown you can still go to work because any one with a weeks worth of economics education would notice that tourism is dead for 18 months, hospitality is half stuffed for 12 months, construction will grind to a halt and we are probably looking at a deep 12 month recession. She just thought she can spend her way out this thing and rack up huge debt for future generations.
    She could have left a lot of businesses open and now the treatment will be worse than the disease.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th March 2020

      ‘a recession is when your neighbour loses his job,a depression is when you lose yours’…

      I’m picking at least 2 years .

      ‘ rack up huge debt for future generations.’…this did not seem to be a concern when the Key Govt borrowed 80 billion!

      Reply
      • David

         /  28th March 2020

        I thought Keys borrowing was a problem too, he had the GFC and the Quake but English got on top of it and got us back to surplus. Not sure that Robertson will be able to and he also faces a global recession as well, its a tough one. I dont think anyone would have given him a hard time for not increasing the minimum wage next week.
        They didnt need to shut down house construction, road building, commercial construction for example you could keep separation on sites.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th March 2020

          ‘got on top of it’!!…the debt remains.

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  28th March 2020

          “surplus’ was just a figure of speech as it only counted ‘operational spending’ using the accrual accounting method.

          on a cash budget basis, Key and English were still borrowing right up to the election, some $5 -6 bill per year
          It may be news to you but the interest and repayments are still there with cash deficit

          Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  28th March 2020

          The stopping construction is insane as this takes place outdoors anyway for the most part. All it will accomplish will be buildings wrecked by the weather and people paying for accommodation as well as a house they can’t move into. Not to mention the tradies, suppliers and subbies going under.

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th March 2020

          NZ economy is roughly 300 billion which is…$300,000,000,000…
          A trillion is -$1,000,000,000,000.

          US debt….sustainable??

          http://www.usadebtclock.com/

          Reply
    • Tourism was stuffed in Italy, Spain and the UK before they started their biggest restrictions. Same here. The cruise ship in Japan would have deterred many cruising here before they were banned. And even if we never closed our borders fly-in tourists would have virtually stopped anyway.

      Reply
      • David

         /  28th March 2020

        The cruise industry is going to take years to recover, Spain and Italy will recover tourism quite quickly next year. I think NZ tourism is stuffed until there is a vaccine, a better way of treating it or the death rate is a fraction of what is being reported and then it will be 12 months after that.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  28th March 2020

          Think silver lining. A stuffed tourist industry gives time to pause and reflect on what changes need to be made to stop this country being overrun by tourists with the consequential loss of lifestyle and adverse effects on our open spaces and scarce resources

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  28th March 2020

            I don’t see many tourists in our open spaces. They are all in the shops and markets or in buses let out at a few scenic hot spots. Rotorua and Queenstown have always done a sterling job of keeping them out of our way.

            Reply
            • Conspiratoor

               /  28th March 2020

              ‘Open’ space perhaps but have you ever tried to move in Paihia when 2 cruise ships arrive together? Or sat behind someone with a cinese license learning to drive for the first time?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  28th March 2020

              Well, yes, C, but Paihia has always been the place I try to pass through at greater than the prevailing speed of 30km/h. I put it in the same category as Rotorua and Queenstown.

          • David

             /  28th March 2020

            I never saw tourism over running anything, I could never understand that complaint. The South Island is still exquisite and largely empty. The odd freedom camper could be an issue.

            Reply
            • Conspiratoor

               /  28th March 2020

              Do you ever get out from behind your keyboard David?

              Largely empty until you want to visit one of our iconic places. As I did last year when I took grandson on a SI tour. High on the list was the church of good shepherd at lake tekapo. We arrived to be greeted by a sign ‘Closed while tour party in progress’. What followed next was not one of my proudest moments

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  28th March 2020

              As I said, they mass at their hot spots. I have fond memories of freezing to death at Tekapo in a camp ground cabin as a young couple waking in the morning to find the wood chips around the chopping block frozen into the ground. And skating (badly) on the frozen lake. And skiing not quite so badly up on the hill. It has a lot more to offer than a snap through the window of the little church. Get out into those outdoors, C, and leave the silly stuff to the tourists. I recall our greatest disappointment there was finding the beer in the boot had frozen in the cans.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  28th March 2020

              Lovely anecdote Al. I get your point but if you think the open spaces are unaffected by a surge in tourism you are deluded. Have you enjoyed any of our great walks lately? Most have become a relentless column of bums and feet

              Take the Te Araroa trail or Tongariro crossing. These are both at tipping point now and tourists are spilling over onto some of those secondary routes we think are immune. Back to my original point

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/322424/tourist-numbers-at-'tipping-point'-on-nz-hikes

            • David

               /  28th March 2020

              I used to Conspiratoor, not in the recent past though.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  28th March 2020

              Yes, true about the tramps, C. Even in my day we were pissed that the Germans always charged ahead and took all the bunks.

            • Gezza

               /  28th March 2020

              Typical!

              They were exactly the bloody same in France in 1940, Al.

  2. Blazer

     /  28th March 2020

    N.W.O

    ‘The FED monetizes all debt, scoops up the last of any real assets, and unleashes hyperinflation into the world.
    With society in turmoil, and the dollar dead, they introduce a digital currency to “save” the downtrodden masses.
    All citizens receive a free digital wallet complete with accompanying credits. To receive said wallet simply sign up for the new app, agree to the terms and conditions, forgo all privacy/human rights, and put the collar around your neck.
    There is a huge uptake for the credits as the masses eagerly adopt this new technology and the promise of free stuff. Critical thinking is further reduced due to fear and disruption from the covid-19 virus.
    Credits are designed to be used in specific stores/sectors, at specific dates (ie weekly expiry) so that the Government can direct spending (and the herd) to where, and when, it wants.
    Good citizens (pro government lackeys) receive extra credits, or discounts, for things like travel, exercise and work.
    Bad citizens (independent thinkers) will be punished, and have credits – and therefore travel and communication – reduced, restricted or withheld.
    Paper currency is phased out. Alternative media, dissenting voices, contrarian thoughts do not receive credits and are phased out. Ownership of alternative money/currency/gold is phased out. Free expression is phased out. Extra credits can be earned by those who endorse the sanctioned narrative best.
    Only those that sign up to the new Government wallet (and allow themselves to be monitored) will be free to trade, those who wish to reject the Government wallets will be phased out.
    Money dies. Interest rates die. Inflation dies. Markets die. Prices die. Information dies. Government grows. The illusion of free will no longer needs to be maintained and elections are finally phased out. The Human Race is enslaved and reduced to little more than cattle ruled by the few, and the world enters into a new dark age.’

    Anonymous thinker.

    Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  28th March 2020

    As I’ve driven the empty roads to dog walk and care for the horses during the lockdown I’ve been passing fit, muscular men of all ages running them with or without their dog.

    This made me realise that there are two types of people in the world – those with big bottoms for sitting on and those with small bottoms for doing things. And currently this country is being run by and for those with big bottoms which is why the economy is tanking.

    If the small bottoms are not released soon NZ will have a deep depression.

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  28th March 2020

      So Alan you want the rightwing small bums to take over,sorry I think PM Jacinda Arderns bum is far smaller than Simon Bridges as hes putting the weight on,so problem solved,Jacindas in charge

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  28th March 2020

        Got any measurements to support your claim, Lurch?

        I don’t think there are many small bums in Parliament. Far too many lawyers, academics and political activists. Most small bums would die rather than be an MP or a bureaucrat.

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th March 2020

      very profound …Al..this may help..

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  28th March 2020

      Depression could be measured by the size of bottoms being what we’ve come to this early in the game.
      And that could signify that the deep depression is going to be very deep. 🙃

      That said AW, I think my mum was close to being on the same page as you. She used to say the world has two types of people: those who are A’holes and those who aren’t. 😊

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  28th March 2020

        I’ve always been with your Mum on that, dups. A friend recently put the ratio at 70:30 and I’m inclined to agree.

        Reply
  4. duperez

     /  28th March 2020

    I love the setting up phase. It’s almost a interesting as the main event!

    Reply
  5. Corky

     /  28th March 2020

    Big weekend coming up. How the public behave MAY determine whether the government decides to call in the army. Being told what to do by freckle faced 18 year olds, or a sheila with more tats than a circuit board diagram, won’t go down well with certain sections of society

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  28th March 2020

      Police are the only ones doing that , bureaucrats issue paperwork and rules

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th March 2020

        At the moment, yes. That’s when they aren’t having coffee at the service station, while truckies cannot get food or use a rest room.

        Reply
    • duperez

       /  28th March 2020

      I’d advise people to stay inside, just in case. Be a bugger if a freckle faced 18 year old or a sheila with more tats than a circuit board diagram turns up who is more informed, intelligent and reasonable than whomever they’re visiting.

      Some people are struggling with some of the more complicated of the requirements. I mean, ‘stay home’ seems to be quite a difficult concept for some to understand.

      It’s probably like running a marathon. We haven’t even really warmed up yet, only up to about 3km, 39km to go and some have got a stitch, their legs are nearly had it, their head is telling them how hard it’s going to be and they can’t do it.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  28th March 2020

        Great post,duperez, in fact, says it all,in a little capsule of time

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th March 2020

        My point exactly…except for those sections of society I mentioned. And I’m not just taking about the feral class. Seems the middleclass, used to a pampered lifestyle, are already chaffing at the bit. They have young Brandon at home, who’s a spoilt little prick.He wants to skate board with his friend, Todd. Bree has a ‘real Maori boyfriend,’ and will like die, if she like, doesn’t have real face time with him. And of course those divine latte’s at that ‘in cafe’ are off the menu. I mean…hell, is this virus that bad? Surely a little social intercourse can’t hurt?

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  28th March 2020

      Australia has called in the army.

      Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  28th March 2020

    Stolen from Kiwiblog,sorry DPF
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/03/shoplifting_now_only_gets_a_warning.html
    the kiwi blog righties are waving their pitchforks around but as a person on a higher moral plane i would like to know the backstory….why and personal situation…yes i know,bad stealing…the English used to send them(females) to Australia,to be raped by the gentry
    PS yes a rope and lamppost according to the rightwing is justified

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  28th March 2020

      The things were recovered, which is something. I imagine that she’ll have a trespass notice which could well be more of a punishment than a fine. I don’t think that prison is justified; the cost to the country’s not worth it. A fine would be appropriate; the cost of the goods + police time.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th March 2020

        So, Lurchy. What are you going to do if your scooter gets a flat? You would have to agree someone walking to the hunting grounds ( also know as a supermarket) wearing vinyl strides and a vicious pair of choppers would look suss.

        A lady was pulled up on a scooter outside my place. I heard the police officer say : ‘how do we know you have been to the supermarket.’ I was sorely tempted to call out: ”check for groceries, you fuckwit.” However, I chickened out. Doing 6 weeks lock down after receiving the baton wouldn’t be a good thing.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  28th March 2020

          Where’s your sense of civic duty, Corks?

          Surely you could still hobble around the supermarket after a few days, when the bruises started to show, to serve as a warning to others?

          Reply
    • Corky

       /  28th March 2020

      As a matter of fact the woman is right. If I remember correctly they cannot detain her…or inspect her bag if she declines. The police must be called.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  28th March 2020

        Citizens arrest , but they cant look into her bag – shes a professional shoplifter
        https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-33-common-crimes/shoplifting/the-shops-powers-and-your-rights/
        ‘They also need to have “reasonable and probable grounds” for believing that you’ve stolen the items. A vague suspicion won’t be enough.

        In these cases, the shop staff or guard would be carrying out what’s sometimes called a “citizen’s arrest”, and they can use reasonable force to hold you. However, they still don’t have the right to search you or your bag without your consent.”

        “If you go back into the shop after getting a trespass warning and you shoplift again, you could also be charged with “burglary”, rather than just being charged with trespass and theft. This is because you no longer have a legal right to enter the shop (unlike other members of the public) and you’ve gone in with the intention of committing a crime: those are the key elements of the offence of “burglary”.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  28th March 2020

          Good stuff. I think many shops rely on ignorance of the law to detain and search shoppers at will.

          Reply
  7. lurcher1948

     /  28th March 2020

    I have been keeping my eye on a failed, drummed out of parliament MP called David Garrett, we all know his pas,having to resign but his posting is becoming more stridentMr Garrett start thing about what you are posting, you are in the legal world and they will slap you down if you cause embarrassment
    David Garrett
    I am seriously worried about how the police are already behaving…from their lack of reaction to the kind of thing referred to above, to Bush’s ominous threats of “a trip to our place” if you can’t satisfy some 20 year old cop’s idea of what is a “justified” absence from your house.

    There is a major discrepancy between what Ardern is saying is permissible to what the outgoing Commissioner is saying. For myself, until we are told definitely that this is not allowed, I plan to take my son – he and I are in our own “bubble” – for a drive up SH 16 when we get a little stir crazy. (Any cop who arrests me will prompt a suit for false imprisonment). I am quite sure I am not the only libertarian to think similarly.

    Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1LOG IN TO REPLY REPORTMARCH 28, 2020 12:52PM

    Do it Mr Garrett….your past will amuse most New Zealanders as the judge sentences you as a self entitled prick

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  28th March 2020

      Garret has failed to notice ‘Declaration of State of Emergency’
      Police will use the enforcement powers provided in the Health Act and the Civil Defence Emergency Act 2002 if required.
      While in force, the State of National Emergency will allow the Director and local controllers, as needed, to provide for the:
      conservation and supply of food, fuel and other essential supplies
      regulate land, water and air traffic
      to close roads and public places
      to evacuate any premises, including any public place
      and if necessary to exclude people or vehicles from any premises or place.

      They could kick Garrett out of his house if required ( unlikely)and nothing he could do about it

      Same goes for that right winger David Cumin creating a scene when asked to leave Auckland Hospital after his sons birth

      he seemed to think it was a public place where they had to have a ‘valid legal reason’ to kick him out. hes been trespassed so now cant go back and will have to wait a few days for his wife and son to be discharged

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  28th March 2020

        Bill of Rights provides for freedom of movement. The clause you cite qualifies the police power with “if necessary”. I think the police would have difficulty satisfying a court of the necessity rather than mere convenience.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  28th March 2020

          I would say so; I am also sceptical that the police pulled up an old woman on a mobility scooter and asked for proof that she’d been to the supermarket. These can’t go far enough on a charge to go any great distance.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  28th March 2020

            I’ll just quietly make the observation that there was no mention that the lady was old, or that the scooter was a mobility scooter, and await developments.

            Reply
  8. duperez

     /  28th March 2020

    And maybe a challenge each day (or when all else fails) is to go outside and take a photo to share. Why not start with another little b who didn’t stay in their own patch?!

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  28th March 2020

      Don’t tell anyone, but birds whom I know don’t live in my garden appear every morning when the bird breakfast bar opens.

      Reply
  9. duperez

     /  28th March 2020

    Herald banner: ‘I don’t know how I’m going to survive’ : In Australia Kiwis are absolutely desperate for help after being shut out of coronavirus welfare payments.’

    Headlines above a couple of stories next to each other have it:
    ‘Coronavirus: In Australia, Kiwis are ‘absolutely desperate’ for help’ and ‘Why Scott Morrison doesn’t want Australians to use the word ‘lockdown.’

    The story of the latter carries, “Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has urged his people to avoid using the word “lockdown”, saying it creates “unnecessary anxiety” and contributes to panic-buying.”

    There you go, that’s what you call priorities. If I were a politician I’d send this little observation to Morrison. Quietly of course as I wouldn’t want to drown in calls from here to desist from interfering in their politics or to create unnecessary anxiety over there for Morrison or any of his wonderful people.

    Reply
  10. This is well done.

    Reply
  11. Corky

     /  28th March 2020

    I see Muslims whining on One News about not being able to buy halal meat. Meanwhile the Mad Butcher was forced to close after being told they were good to go by authorities, that’s according to their CEO during a talkback interview.

    I say tough..if your religious requirements are that important to you…eat grass.

    While the PM has been firm on this issue, I expect authorities to relent eventually. That’s what we do in the West.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/concern-among-muslims-halal-butcher-closures-see-them-miss-in-lockdown

    Reply

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