Open Forum – Monday 30 March

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80 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  30th March 2020

    So why did the host of a nearby rightwing blog, post a post that a Muslim victim, of tarrants massacre, forgives the australian, its pure clickbait for the racist rightwing islamophobes the disgraced MP David Garrett is going off like a fire rocket, huffing and puffing, wrapping Muslims on pig skins is mentioned sharia that good old standby is quoted,Just the blog ower getting over his boredom and stirring up the lackeys

    Reply
  2. David

     /  30th March 2020

    The NHS is changing some of the protocols that came out of China and are using CPAC machines instead of ventilators in more and more cases. If someone goes on a ventilator they are sedated (to tolerate the breathing tube) and generally on one sedated for a couple of weeks and they have found that forcing oxygen into the lungs at pressure can cause more damage to the lungs. Not being deeply sedated means you avoid the potential damage to heart and kidneys as well as the lungs.
    The CPAC is far less severe and resource wise its pretty much a sleep apnea machine, you just pop the mask on but still in hospital.

    Reply
    • It’s CPAP with a P for Pressure

      and what is your source please.

      Reply
      • David

         /  30th March 2020

        Typo. Brother is consultant anaesthetist sister in law ENT surgeon. They are part of the drug trials and getting more promising results from not ventilating some patients.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  30th March 2020

          Good news that since ventilation apparently has a 50% failure rate in addition to tying up scarce equipment and human resources for weeks.

          Reply
  3. lurcher1948

     /  30th March 2020

    Thought for the day
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUTJpDNU4AIoTJu?format=png&name=900×900
    no bonespurs here,just a real backbone

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  30th March 2020

      Trump’s been in the military since he took up office. He’s the Commander In Chief.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  30th March 2020

        No hes the civilian commander in Chief, the Military Commander in Chief is the head of Joint Chiefs, a 4 star general.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  30th March 2020

          Who gives him his orders?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  30th March 2020

            It goes President , Secretary of Defence, head of Joint Chiefs ….
            First two are civilians

            NZ has something similar as Its Governor general , Minister of Defence, Head of the Defence Staff….
            In Practice the GG is titular and only acts on advice from Cabinet/Exexcutive Council. And the Minister of Defence would be the PM in wartime, as Churchill was or for NZ the decisions made by Cabinet Committee including the PM and only passed on by Minister of Defence who would sign them

            Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  30th March 2020

        General bone spurs,,the coward in chief ETC ETC

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  30th March 2020

          Major Disaster and General Chaos.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  30th March 2020

          Yeah, well, I dunno. How many wars have you been in where you’ve been shot at & watched your nearby army buddies get their head blown off? My old man did. Luckily I’ve never had to. I might’ve been a draft dodger in the US for all I know too. I don’t like Trump but he’s been in plenty of situations where an assassin could take him out. There aren’t too many national leaders who make decisions involving their military who’ve actually been in a shooting war.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th March 2020

            He wears bullet proof undies; it’s obvious, one can see the line. It makes him look a very odd shape. He is often behind a screen, once someone told me this, I could see the screen. It’s as if he’s filmed through a window.

            I don’t blame anyone for being a draft dodger. I do blame him for lying about it and saying that he’d love to have gone and been awarded a Purple Heart and sneering at someone who was captured, ergo not a hero.

            Reply
  4. David

     /  30th March 2020

    My worry is when we open up after stamping this thing out here what is the plan ? All it takes is one air crew member or one returning NZer and the whole thing has been an utter waste of time and we get the virus slap bang in the middle of flu season.
    We literally have to close the border and isolate the country until there is a vaccine which could be a year away. That might be fine but we need to be told that as a country and whether that is a cost we are willing to bare.
    Sweden has decided they are grown ups and can evaluate their own tolerance for risk and balance out their personal freedoms as individuals. This virus is coming through so their health boss says they have to get some immunity to it and to the mutated one that will follow. They could be right as the forecast toll in the UK has gone from 250k to under 20k yet our PM is still forecasting 10,s of thousands of deaths with no pushback.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  30th March 2020

      They could be right as the forecast toll in the UK has gone from 250k to under 20k

      Yip right wing propaganda and the usual suckers .

      A narrative rocketed around social media earlier today: An Imperial College study said that COVID-19 could kill 500,000 Brits, but in recent testimony, Neil Ferguson, the head of the group behind the study, put the number below 20,000. Clearly the lying alarmist was walking back his ridiculous predictions!

      Well, no. The paper actually offered simulations of numerous scenarios. The one resulting in 500,000 deaths was one where Great Britain just carried on life as before. Other scenarios, where the country locked down whenever it was necessary to stop the disease’s spread, put death totals below 20,000

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  30th March 2020

      Your worry is when we open up after stamping this thing out what the plan is?

      Farrar on his site says of Bill English, “Great to see someone thinking beyond the next few weeks.”

      The moral of the story seems to be, ‘When you haven’t got enough to criticise in what is happening, criticise or bitch about what is to happen in the future.’
      That keeps up a climate of doubt and suspicion and opens doors for those who want an excuse to moan.

      Farrar’s comment is a scummy implication for his own political ends. It will be well-received and built on by other manipulators for other easily manipulated dullards. No-one in Government and none of the officials have thought beyond the next few weeks?

      If cabin fever strikes later in the day I might contact Arderns office bitching about the fact that I haven’t personally received an itemised 217 point list of what’s going to happen beyond the next few weeks. On the other hand I might just get a life instead.

      Reply
  5. Posted: https://yournz.org/2020/03/30/president-trump-is-a-ratings-hit-says-president-trump/

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  30th March 2020

      “could”, the big red flag walking ahead of the crap that follows as I told you before.

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  30th March 2020

        Yes Alan.
        The person who had a big rant about uncertainty and it you don’t admit to it you are not talking science a few days ago is now demanding certainty.
        In other words gibbering nonsense yet again .
        ‘We don’t know for certain .
        The thing about not knowing is it goes both ways this could be a lot worse than we believe at present .

        https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  30th March 2020

          The thing about it going both ways is that you believe it only goes in the worst way.

          Reply
  6. Corky

     /  30th March 2020

    An example of madness..and not from the Gloriavale residents.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12320650&&ref=recommended

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  30th March 2020

      Its such a large community who are closely grouped , and no they arent isolated totally as some often travel to towns….one case gets inside the community and they will end up like the Haisidic jews of NY city, or jews in particular who in Britain are 10% of sick when they are only 1% of population

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  30th March 2020

        Put your thinking cap on, Duker…THINK! All the authorities need do is rock up and give them an ultimatum…go into lock down and hold no group gatherings…or authorities will lock down the compound with no residents leaving. Put a cop on the gate if necessary.

        They can select a nominated person(s) to get supplies if they comply. Anyone not complying is arrested straight away.

        That’s one big bubble. Let’s be honest, if the virus wipes them out, what would you, or the majority of people care? This is just a beat up. Leties love hating religious folk, even as the country disintegrates.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  30th March 2020

          Hmm. Interesting suggestion. Could probably be done under the current emergency powers if they don’t comply. That’s just enforcing a quarantine. Hate to see it tie up needed police resources but the army could deploy on or more guards.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  30th March 2020

            *one or more

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  30th March 2020

            Yes, a couple of army guys..or locals. I’m sure justice would be swift with the locals

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  30th March 2020

              Wouldn’t be locals given a job like that, Corks. No govt is going to deputise vigilantes.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              Or allow them, either. This isn’t the Wild West.

    • Gezza

       /  30th March 2020

      Huh? Would you like to live in Gloriavale, Corks?

      Personally I think you’d have to be mad to want to live with that lot.

      It does raise an issue of how the govt or police or courts will choose to deal with any fundamentalist religious community of any faith that firmly believes its god or religious practices or ritual will protect them from the virus.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  30th March 2020

        Huh? Would you like to live in Gloriavale, Corks?

        I could not think of anything worse.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  30th March 2020

          Couldn’t think of anything worse? How about an apartment in Mecca?

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  30th March 2020

            Not even the royal family is safe there nowdays.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  30th March 2020

            That’s a tough one. Bored to death v shot to death.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  30th March 2020

              Only if you are lucky. The Saudis have an unpleasant range of terminal illnesses for those who annoy them.

  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  30th March 2020

    Ah, those incorrigible 70 yesr-olds. The PM has a message for us: stay at home. I have s message for her: GFY.

    Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  30th March 2020

        There seems little point in having seniors only times if the PM won’t let them use these.

        If someone of 70 lives alone and has no relations to drop off groceries, they have little option but to go out and buy them. Good luck with being able to find a booking slot for delivery or click and collect.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  30th March 2020

          I finally got a Countdown booking slot today, Kitty. One suddenly opened up on Thursday. Even though I’d been a regular online customer for nearly a year it had been impossible to book for the past week or so and often you can’t even get onto the website. Luckily I had got a trolley ready to go.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th March 2020

            I gave up after ? attempts. I made out the order and then found I couldn’t C & C it. As my last Countdown order (made before the lockdown) was minus at least half the items anyway, I saw little point in ordering from them again so tootled off to P & S. No queues, just cleaning, no empty shelves…the huge queue outside Countdown didn’t bode well for the availabilty of stock.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  30th March 2020

              I got my last order on the Wed just before everything closed and in high panic and was very surprised everything ordered arrived. Down at our local 4Sq today for a few things it was well stocked and just a few shoppers. I guess we’ve had a big population reduction up here with tourism slammed shut so there is no problem with capacity.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              There were so many things missing from mine that I could probably have brought the rest home myself. There were now only two of the items that did arrive. Forget it, I’ll go to Pak & Save and save the delivery fee. It’s not worth it if the order can’t be filled and I don’t know what won’t be in it.

  8. lurcher1948

     /  30th March 2020

    The right is panicking, it’s not going to simon bridges grand plan, and bill english and john key..reappearing, old white stale pale males
    jv
    Spot on from Mike Hosking this morning. She is all about stage performance and controlling the message.
    She has no ability to take us along with her, she just instructs and implores with her funny faces. Everything but everything is scripted. Trust is lost as soon as the messages start changing. She has no real leadership skills. We are just doing what we are told.
    (Does anyone want fools like this ruling us and sell the country again, we follow her because WE WANT TO)

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  30th March 2020

      See above, Lurch, and stay at home. Someone else will have to exercise your dogs. Jacinda says.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  30th March 2020

        Took the dogs down to the park, for an hour all 3 asleep, always remember, a 71yo can be fitter than a 60 yo rightwing LARDO, and yes you can drive down in a bubble and avoid people…took the X-Trail not the GLX Corolla
        PS my dogs eat righties but theres no backbone to spit out,and the rest isnt that great, its tastes like chinese giveaways

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  30th March 2020

          Go on, Lurch. I know you are just a floppy puppy at heart. Pretend you are only 69 for Jacinda.

          Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  30th March 2020

        She hasn’t addressed the problems of old people living alone like the woman I know in Wanganui. Her ‘cleaner’ has become a friend and like a daughter and does all sorts of things as well as clean, but now, of course, it’s illegal for her to go there. This is happening nation-wide according to the Herald. People whose home help is paid for by taxpayers should be all right, people like P are on their own literally and metaphorically now that the PM has decreed that it’s a crime to go to their houses and do anything for them. This is a woman in her 80s with cataracts and other health issues.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  30th March 2020

          Yes, I have a friend who I visited most mornings for a coffee and chat and helping her with email and banking. She dropped off some chocolates this morning saying she is missing our visits very much. I was happy to continue but her son was worried her neighbours would dob her in.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  30th March 2020

            I wonder if these kinds of cases start to mount up (where elderly non-internet capable people are trapped with no immediate family are trapped at home) whether the govt or police might start having to consider a permit system to allow those who normally help them out to continue to do so.

            Something like this is done in France, where the police will ask to see your written permission to be out & about. But the permission is something you can print off – or even handwrite – & sign yourself. An Aljazeera tv reporter had one & it was accepted by police over there. They kept it simple.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  30th March 2020

              It would be nice to think the police had some understanding and compassion and even nicer if they showed it.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              I talked to someone who was removing things from an estate agent. The Dear Leader graciously allows people to buy houses…but they can’t go & SEE them. I suppose that this means that building inspectors can’t go in, either.

              Fools are wearing masks, but many are wearing them wrong. They won’t stop anyone catching anything anyway, but if they did, they wouldn’t be much use worn under the nose or only covering the chin. Paper ones are worse than useless.

            • Duker

               /  30th March 2020

              Lawyers and real estate agents are closed. Maybe they are working from home exchanging contracts and doing settlement . of course land registry is done online. getting a mortgage might be the hard part as they really like to met the applicant unless they know them and have all the details
              Viewing a house is of course no essential too

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              I’d say that seeing the house is essential; it’s a huge investment. Most people would want to see it, not just flattering photos. I wouldn’t buy one without a builder’s report. Nor would I want to buy one when I hadn’t seen the street and the other houses in it.

              PDTs, paper masks ARE useless, masks won’t keep the virus out and masks that are worn as chinwarmers are worse than useless. Many doctors have told us that masks won’t work as virus preventers.

    • Gezza

       /  30th March 2020

      I don’t particularly want to follow Jacinda, Lurch. I often find her irritating, tbh. But the situation is that the government has locked the country down & she, as the PM, at least has fronted for that decision. So whether one agrees or disagrees over the government’s strategy she is not backing away from taking personal responsibility – along with the praise and the brickbats – & deserves credit for that.

      The other thing that I think is worth credit is that her Cabinet team continues to meet & review how things are going daily, have ongoing discussions with employers, unions etc – & show every sign so far of being prepared to respond to unforeseen situations with further decisions.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  30th March 2020

        My impression is that they listen and then go their own way.

        What is the sense of forcing butchers to dump meat worth millions on the grounds that supermarkets sell it ? Why not let them sell existing stock ? I hate to think what the dumping alone would cost.

        Tradies building houses are ‘isolated’ anyway; why make them leave half-built houses to deteriorate ?

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  30th March 2020

          Its supposed to be all the other activities to support house building . You may not be aware but the builder is more of a supervisor as the framing comes from a factory, the slab is laid by contractors , same as for all the Gib stoppers , roofing, electrical plumbing, drainage , painting and so on. Tons of people coming and going

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th March 2020

            They could at least have let to make them weatherproof.

            The builder still seems to do the basic building, frame, walls and so on; couldn’t they have been let to do that and left them as waterproof shells ? The interior gibbing etc could come later. The slabs must have been in place before the rest began.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  30th March 2020

            Fair point but there are activities that can be done safely and they should be allowed.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              Is the over 70s lockdown legally binding ? Will people over 70 be arrested if they venture outside ?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              total lockdown, I mean.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  30th March 2020

              I think it is clearly illegal, Kitty. They may be arrested but it will be done unlawfully and probably be a PR disaster for the police.

            • Duker

               /  30th March 2020

              Who said over 70s are ‘locked down’ any more than anyone else ?
              I think you are confused over health advice and legal restrictions

              “You should stay at home as much as possible, except for going for a walk or picking up essentials. You should not enter other people’s houses or arrange meetings in public places.

              If you leave your home, keep a 2-metre distance from other people at all times. When you return home from being in public, thoroughly wash your hands. Stopping physical contact with people outside your household is the single most important thing we can do right now to stop further community transmission.”
              https://covid19.govt.nz/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIub2O3rbB6AIVVhaPCh1DpAmtEAAYASAAEgK8SPD_BwE
              Not a word about special legal restrictions on 70+

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              I wasn’t sure if they were being advised (ha ha) or ordered (more likely) A bus driver told me that she only realised how many people working there were 70+ when they all had to stop work. They had no option.

              With the tradies, they wouldn’t all be there at once, would they ? I have seen houses being built and have the impression that this is the case. It wouldn’t be too hard to say that only x were to be there at once.

              Is it legal to give someone a lift in your car ?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th March 2020

              The PM is making it sound mandatory for over 70s not to go out at all; she is using guilt trip language at best.

              There ARE legal restrictions; it is not legal to go to someone else’s house or have visitors.

  9. Gezza

     /  30th March 2020

    Open Letter to The NZ Police

    From: Catriona MacLennan

    Posted: https://yournz.org/2020/03/30/police-have-important-additional-powers-but-mustnt-abuse-them/

    Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  30th March 2020

      I’ve seen two other explanations for this upturn…

      Presidents usually see a rise in popularity at this stage in their cycle. Look at his predecessor who was languishing at trumpian levels and started to rise at the same stage

      Americans have a track record of putting their politics aside and swinging in behind their presidents in times of crisis,

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  30th March 2020

        Yes they do. In fact I think most countries’s peoples & politicians do.

        Reply
      • The lack of decent alternatives left in the Democrat nomination might help as well. Even more elderly candidates look more of a risk.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  30th March 2020

          Agreed, that is another factor although the dems have been bereft of talent for a long time

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  30th March 2020

            I dunno c. From my perspective they’re maybe not so much bereft of talent as bereft of any coherent policy programme someone of talent could unite them behind? Their shining stars’ policy preferences are often contradictory. A perfect example is an area Trump makes sense about – borders & immigration policy overhaul.

            Trump’s sticking with what makes sense on immigration & border security – except that were he not such an incorrigibly pugilistic narcissist by nature he could win big with granting one big once-only amnesty & residence/citizenship for illegals of long term-residence, with jobs, paying taxes, & clean police records.

            Trump just wants the same jind of merit-points-based immigration policies countries like NZ & Australia have had for decades.

            Democratic Lawmakers profess to want all kinds of different immigration regimes & also want to be able have sanctuary cities & thus undercut their own immigration & border control policies.

            Reply
            • Conspiratoor

               /  30th March 2020

              G, can we just distill this to we have NFI. I’ll put a pic for you over on photos later that you’ll enjoy

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  30th March 2020

        Sure, but the article is about more than just the latest popularity polls.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  30th March 2020

          The president has consistently and very publicly ridiculed the media. Some of it justified and inevitably some is going to stick. This is something we discerning political observers have known for some time. Only now are the great unwashed waking up to it

          Reply
      • Duker

         /  30th March 2020

        Swing behind in times of crisis…yes they rise in to the mid 60s or higher approval ratings
        Trumps is going from under 45 to under 50. WoW
        He never got much bump from the Trump economy and all that stuff before this happens . Do you think after the crisis part passes , ie 4 months they will go from hating Trump to loving him – the ones that arent trumpanzees already ?

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  30th March 2020

          Duker, his support will plateau early. I never made any claims otherwise so go easy on the silly labels

          Reply
  10. Reply
  11. Griff.

     /  30th March 2020

    Once you get the framing up you will have three or more trades at a time on site often working on top of each other.
    Builders, roofers, scaffolders , water proffers, plumber,electrician, gib fixers and stoppers, painters, kitchen installers, flooring installers, tilers ,wardrobe fitters all trying to do their jobs often all at the same time. It is organised chaos at the best of times.

    Reply

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