Open Forum – Thursday

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86 Comments

  1. David

     /  23rd April 2020

    Given the economic cost to the country and we shut off travel from China on Feb 2nd it is inexcusable that the tracing system is still not up to scratch and the main reason we are still locked down.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121147156/coronavirus-contact-tracing-system-blamed-for-new-zealand-remaining-in-covid19-lockdown

    Reply
    • A comprehensive tracing system is very difficult to set up and operate. The Ministry of Health could have done more, sooner, but is that reasonable to expect?

      We could have had an expensive tracing system set up years ago, sitting doing little waiting for a virus. Would that have been a sensible use of funds in a health system struggling to keep up with day to day care?

      I don’t know if the MoH has been slack or negligent over the tracing system, they may have been, but they may have done as much as reasonably could be expected as well.

      But I guess blaming them for still being in lockdown gives people someone to vent against.

      Reply
      • David

         /  23rd April 2020

        The report was available 11 days ago and the release delayed until Arderns press conference for political purposes and she did what she has done throughout her term and announced a pot of money for the headline but once again failed to follow through and get something done.
        She has no health minister but she has all the resources of government and the economy is shut down at a cost of billions, its pretty poor when she could literally have called AirNZ 6 weeks ago and picked up some very talented people.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  23rd April 2020

          Airline call centres can be overseas .
          They rely on pre prepared scripts on what to say…. tracing people isnt what airlines do .
          hell they have enough trouble tracing luggage gone astray

          Reply
          • David

             /  23rd April 2020

            You have intelligent people who you can quickly retrain to do different tasks cant you, tracing is hardly difficult and the tourist sector is full of resourceful people. Setting up a call centre is easy and quick or you just put them in existing call centres around the country that the government operates.
            Glad you arent in charge of anything you are just relentlessly negative and its all about what cant be done so lets just sit around and pick holes in things.

            Reply
    • David

       /  23rd April 2020

      Starting to get a bit wobbly, its going to prove challenging for our media to accept that Ardern dosent oversee the worlds best government.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121195443/covid19-doctors-say-government-not-coughing-up-promised-funding

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  23rd April 2020

        Yes, I’ll repost this from last night:

        “Gezza / 22nd April 2020
        1News at 6 tonite was interesting. They focussed most, I thought, for the first time on the various complaints & issues that are now coming to the fore, & in particular were critical of Jacinda’s response to a question at her briefing today when she told reporters that there are plenty of stocks of flu vaccinations, now widely available, & earlier this year than usual.

        After being told that numerous GPs & patients are saying they cannot get enuf flu shots for their areas, 1News showed a 1-2 second clip of Jacinda dismissing those reports as untrue, saying simply that she “did not accept the premise of the question”.

        In typical lamestream tv media fashion, we didn’t get to hear the reporter’s question or anything else but that one sentence, so we don’tbknow the full context. But they took a negative angle, the implication being that she was untruthful, spinning, or just wrong.”
        … … …

        They also reported on the government’s failure to cough up GP funding. And on the economic strife Sounds Air is (Phil Twyford said, however, that Cabinet is working on an assistance package for them).

        This is the first time I’ve seen TV1 take a critical & negative slant to their reporting on Covid-19 & Jacinda. So it was quite noticeable I thought.

        Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  23rd April 2020

          We were vaccinated for the flu last week at a chemist,The chemist said it was the office fault at the Newlands Medical centre some over ordered and some under ordered,.We walked in filled out the form and were vaccinated due to our age,age has benefits,IE do not worry about redundancy now,right Corky

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  23rd April 2020

            Here’s a suggestion…I wouldn’t have a flu jab next year. The way the governments books will probably look, oldies like you will go through the front door for a jab…and exit the back door on a gurney.

            Reply
          • Temper, temper.

            Reply
        • Blazer

           /  23rd April 2020

          so 1ewes is now a go to…authority.?

          Health authorities have backed the P.M on this beatup.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  23rd April 2020

            Hardly surprising tho, wouldn’t you think? She is their top boss, & I assume these might be the authorities whose papers say it’s all good, while at the front delivery end, it’s another matter.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  23rd April 2020

              She could just take the approach of saying she had not been briefed on those details,and referring it the relevant minister or health officials.

              Amazing how she is expected to be on top of absolutely everything,everyday.

              I always thought you were less than impressed by 1 Ewes.

            • Gezza

               /  23rd April 2020

              @ B
              Yes, she perhaps could have – but nothing but that teensy clip was shown of the briefing or Q&A session it was take from. So we can’t place that in any relevant full context.

              She is expected to be on top of everything because she has put herself in the position of starring & apparently being so, in relation to Covid-19.

              What was also intriguing was “I do not accept the premise of the question” is a stock standard phrase straight out of Question Time where it is regularly used by Ministers (from both main parties) facing awkward situations that they find uncomfortable & don’t have enuf info on.

              I’ve never heard it reeled out at a press conference to answer a reporter before.

              You are correct. I have long been & still am less than impressed by 1ewes. They are lightweight fluff of the infotainment variety, whose presenters & reporters have illusions of stardom, imo.

              However, for a certain segment of the older adult population, & I don’t know how many middle-aged, they are still probably reasonably influential in shaping viewer opinion in line with their angles.

      • Blazer

         /  23rd April 2020

        Which sector/vocation is not screaming out for more money?

        Dentists are really pissed ,they haven’t yet been able to lock down large scale Govt funding for private dental work .

        Reply
    • “We didn’t really invest in the public health and infrastructure enough to be ready for this type of threat … It’s like earthquake preparedness, isn’t it? You need to be prepared even though you hope to never have to use your capacity.”

      Dr Ayesha Verrall recommended ten times the tracing capacity (Dr Ashley Bloomfield says half that would be adequate). But it’s not just about throwing money at it and you have it. You need facilities, you need people, you need training. It takes a lot more than writing a blog comment.

      Reply
      • David

         /  23rd April 2020

        Australia managed it. You have the contact database of the health system with 95% of people on it, there are empty call centres and you have plenty of people floating around with no work who are smart people. What about coppers with not a lot to do at the moment, border security people re tasked with their databases.
        Sweden re trained its airline staff to work in the health system, all it takes is effort. We saw incredible things after the earthquake all it takes is a bit of drive and determination and you can be up and running very quickly and we had ongoing quakes and the infrastructure was busted.

        Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  23rd April 2020

    God give me strength, our PeterJackson sponsored mayor Andy Foster,a major disaster that vote was for WELLINGTON appeared on AM and said there’s no recycle collection for level 3 &2 and a while on one, and the tip is closed and this disaster of a mayor asked on Facebook if Wellington wanted a convention centre, and cycle lanes, MOST WELLINGTONIANS want the CENTRAL LIBRARY repaired(its been closed for ages, poor safety design)but the idiot wants his vanity projects, in and out in one term I will say.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  23rd April 2020

      If you are saying that Foster has said no recycling collection again, & no tips open, until we get to level 1, I’m bloody well-pissed off with the plonker, neighbour. I wasn’t happy with this bought & paid for guy’s election to Mayor either. I feel like dumping my bloody recycling & tip rubbish at his place ! 😡

      Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  23rd April 2020

    Like the NHS our public health system is best at banning things. Next:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121193652/coronavirus-import-ban-introduced-for-nonapproved-covid19-test-kits

    Bureaucrats specialise in not doing things. I’ve yet to hear of a sane reason for banning driving and solo outdoor activities. I don’t expect ever to because there isn’t one.

    Reply
    • Um…it will make people grateful to Dear Leader when it stops ?

      The reason given for no driving is specious.

      I can’t see the sense of banning dogs in the dogs’ playpens around the country. I was glad to see three dogs having a lovely time in one the other day. These areas are very large and ‘enclosed’ by a minimal wire fence, forsooth.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  23rd April 2020

        Yes, just more bureaucratic nonsense – probably because councils run them.

        Reply
  4. Corky

     /  23rd April 2020

    Mikey skilleted the health minister this morning, especially the juxtaposition between what the PM is saying, and that of her health minister.

    Then we have Deborah Morris, and her remarks on small business. She gave me a timely reminder why I’m not a socialist. She has that hallmark nasty streak that defines her ilk.

    Talking of the confused.. it wasn’t long ago Dr Lance O’Sullivan was filming the bros breaking curfew in a small Northland town. My, how the mighty have fallen – but not for long. He will find a way back in the news. In fact he already has.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/i-ve-been-a-dick-dr-lance-o-sullivan-admits-coronavirus-lockdown-breach-hypocrisy.html

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  23rd April 2020

      Suggest he needs to die his hair purple to get on TV more.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  23rd April 2020

        Siouxsie, Lance and Nano Girl could have have their own show. Nano Girl would have to choose a hair colour.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  23rd April 2020

          Surely Green?

          Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  23rd April 2020

          So would have Simon Bridges handled the pandemic better than PMJacinda Ardern and will he wear rubber gloves when the Communist Chinese start handing over the donation envelopes again and finally will he lose his job next week…so many questions for the rightwingers here…take your time answering

          Reply
          • David

             /  23rd April 2020

            He isnt the PM so why does it matter, its a hypothetical but he would probably have mirrored Australia who have done a better job than us and kept their economy functioning.

            Reply
            • “he would probably have mirrored Australia”

              That’s debatable and impossible to know.

              “who have done a better job than us and kept their economy functioning”

              That’s debatable. We won’t know for months which has been the better balance for both health and business.

            • David

               /  23rd April 2020

              As I said it was a hypothetical. I think its a pretty reasonable assumption given Aussies virus numbers and a lot more of their economy has been allowed to function.
              Drymix has just gone into receivership for example, big supplier of concrete to the construction industry, first of a long list of casualties in an industry that Aussie kept open.
              https://www.debtorinsight.co.nz/notices

            • Duker

               /  23rd April 2020

              Drymix a small supplier of bagged mixes …as the name suggests.
              The big suppliers of concrete to construction will still be going strong …with wage subsidies
              Look here, nearly $350k and they walk away
              DRYMIX (NZ) LIMITED 31 $215,088.00 22/04/2020
              DRYMIX CEMENT LIMITED 15 $105,444.00 22/04/2020

            • Pink David

               /  23rd April 2020

              “We won’t know for months which has been the better balance for both health and business.”

              Untrue. The theory on which the lockdown is based means NZ should expect significantly more cases in the future than Australia. Australia, again, if the theory holds, is further along the curve and will recover more quickly. There is also a very significant health cost to a total lockdown that no one is looking at.

              All these things are clearly foreseeable. Claims of hindsight are risible.

              The lockdown has no basis in science, nor did anyone in government make a suitable, risk assessed, judgement about it. It was driven by nothing more than fear and political adventurism.

            • I don’t know what theories you’re referring to.

              What Australia is doing has as much and as little basis in science as our approach. We’ve both done similar with similar timing so far, and similar health outcomes, but there’s no way of knowing whether trying to deal with the virus at low levels or trying to virtually eliminate it are a) possible or b) the best approach. The degree of success on this will affect business outcomes.

            • Duker

               /  23rd April 2020

              There is a live ‘science experiment’ running now with two same sized countries using the opposite approaches
              Greece and Sweden.

              Lockdown has history on its side …since the Black death and everywhere for all sorts of epidemics even in NZ Diphtheria , Whopping cough

              The word quarantine comes from the Italian for 40 days , which is the rule instituted by Venice for arrivals of new ships from the east.

              The were plenty of lockdowns for the 1919 flu pandemic , it was all they had really.
              NZ had regional lockdowns right up till the 1960s for parts of the country that had polio flareups.
              Peddling ignorance about lockdowns comes from a certain type of arrogance

    • Pink David

       /  23rd April 2020

      “Dr Lance O’Sullivan”

      He is very representative of those who support the lockdown. It’s the plebs who must be controlled, but I’m ok to go kayaking. The rules only apply if you are not ‘special’, or is it now ‘essential’.

      Reply
  5. David

     /  23rd April 2020

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8244551/Australia-CRUSHES-coronavirus-Just-FOUR-people-diagnosed-COVID-19-24-hours.html

    Australia are doing a great job, we followed by days all the actions the Australian government with shutting off China, then other countries, then self isolating arrivals but they went a lot earlier on quarantining at the border. Good job Australia and they can still largely go about their business which is very similar to our level 2.
    Not much coverage of their success story in our media and there should be. Their contact tracing and testing has been world beating.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  23rd April 2020

      Our media have been really quite disgraceful. The fawning female fan club masquerading as a press gallery should be sacked along with their editors.

      Reply
      • David

         /  23rd April 2020

        Given she is destroying their business I am surprised at the sychophancy and lack of questioning of the extension and the hammering of Bridges.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  23rd April 2020

          Yes, karma is a cruel master.

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  23rd April 2020

          “Given she is destroying their business”
          Thats Facebook and Google doing that…patient had pre existing conditions
          Every country has had a big drop in advertising , even Youtube has dropped its payments for influencers as they arent getting the ad traffic , even though there are more views.
          see thats the difference , you dont understand business , other that owner operator level any more than standard legal concepts…and Im no expert !

          Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  23rd April 2020

      Let’s start a give a little so David can go back to his beloved Australia,PM Jacinda Ardern seems to upset him as shes a female and hes a nothing.Scott Morrison seems more his sort,male and all that.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  23rd April 2020

        Can’t leave this country in the hands of the Yes girls, Lurch.

        Reply
      • David

         /  23rd April 2020

        Outrageous Lurcher, I grew up under Margaret Thatcher arguably the best leader of any country ever. I would have Judith Collins as PM in a heartbeat, Paula Bennett is pretty impressive too, strong uncompromising women. Ruth Richardson was a fine finance minister, Jenny Shipley was a very capable social welfare minister.
        Julie Ann Genter impresses me, dont agree with a single thing she says but a very impressive politician. I think AOC is pretty spectacular too.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  23rd April 2020

          ‘ I grew up under Margaret Thatcher arguably the best leader of any country ever. I would have Judith Collins as PM in a heartbeat, Paula Bennett is pretty impressive too, strong uncompromising women. Ruth Richardson was a fine finance minister, Jenny Shipley was a very capable social welfare minister.’

          I don’t think you’ve left anyone out of this deplorable rogues ..gallery.

          Not one of them made a positive ,lasting improvement .

          Reply
          • Alan. 3 News wasn’t fawning last night; anything but. The PM was very much on the back foot. The government did NOT look good or as if they knew what they were doing.

            Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  23rd April 2020

          You do know Judith’s partner is Chinese,not a good look at this moment

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  23rd April 2020

            You don’t think that was a teensy bit racist, Lurch?

            Reply
          • Duker

             /  23rd April 2020

            “do know Judith’s partner is Chinese”

            Hmmm . hes of samoan ethnicity with chinese ancestry, its reckoned that 20-25% of Samoans ( 10% of those in samoa) have chinese ancestry

            Reply
  6. Some time in the next week the US will pass an arbitrary but still meaningful number: 58,000 dead, the number of servicemen lost in the Vietnam War over the course of a decade. But this time it happened in only eight weeks.

    The Trump administration doesn’t grasp the historic meaning of it all.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  23rd April 2020

      Really? I think their targeting of China grasps it pretty well.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  23rd April 2020

        Does Trump treat the citizens of the U.S as adults in your opinion…Al?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  23rd April 2020

          Absolutely. Much more so than Obama IMO. Trump harangues, entertains, switches positions looks from every angle and mocks himself as well as the pompous elite. Obama and his ilk carry on as though there is just one true way of thinking – theirs. That is truly treating their audience like children.

          Reply
    • David

       /  23rd April 2020

      Ishmael why didnt Obama who co wrote the Pandemic Preparedness and Response Act in 2005 but never implemented it and failed to re stock the national supply of PPE and a proper testing regime bears any responsibility for the slow start.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  23rd April 2020

        You’re showing your special brand of brilliance again David….This Chinese virus’….its Obama’s …fault!

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  23rd April 2020

      “The Trump administration doesn’t grasp the historic meaning of it all.”

      You very clearly do not get the historical meaning of it.

      Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  23rd April 2020

    More rain. The neighbour is out there drowning with his weed-eater. Expect to hear it gurgle and die any moment.

    Reply
    • Rain ? We had some once…I remember it quite well.

      I hope it’s not an electric weedeater.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  23rd April 2020

        No, must be petrol. It did die eventually. I was expecting a roar and scream as the operator lost his grip and slid down the hill on the wet mud and grass but it spluttered out peacefully. Still raining. Our drought is long since broken. It can stop now.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  23rd April 2020

          When you’re filling those sandbags, watch yourself Al. The fire ban is still on. Bureaucrats are coming for you

          Reply
  8. Corky

     /  23rd April 2020

    Some in Maoridom will be sniggering. I don’t know why. Three hundred people cut out of the economy is a lot of money.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12327101

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  23rd April 2020

      The tip of the iceberg. Casualties will be measured in hundreds of thousands, not hundreds.

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  23rd April 2020

      you’re critiqueing your own assumptions,that are not based on anything of substance.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  23rd April 2020

        that’s for Corky…you are correct ,unemployment will be double digits no danger.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  23rd April 2020

          That’s true. But many of these folk may have come from smaller communities. That’s a lot of immediate money not circulating in these places…and that’s before the big Tsunami hits.

          Reply
      • Corky

         /  23rd April 2020

        Please expand.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  23rd April 2020

          present your evidence of these Maori that are ‘sniggering’.Over.

          Reply
  9. Top health official says he was ousted for pushing back on Trump’s ‘game changer’ drug

    “I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the COVID-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit. I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science — not politics or cronyism — has to lead the way,” Dr. Rick Bright said Wednesday in a statement issued by his lawyers.

    “Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the Administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit. While I am prepared to look at all options and to think ‘outside the box’ for effective treatments, I rightly resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public,” Bright said in the statement, which was first reported by The New York Times.

    Meanwhile, a panel of experts convened by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases recommended that doctors not use a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat COVID-19 patients because of potential severe health risks. Trump had urged that they be taken together.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/top-health-official-says-he-was-ousted-pushing-back-trump-n1190041

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  23rd April 2020

      So this character refused to follow directives from his bosses and is now blaming Trump for getting fired. And refused to make available a drug that the NIH expert guidelines says can be given in a decision between the doctor and patient subject to monitoring and safety precautions.

      Reply
  10. Corky

     /  23rd April 2020

    I can’t. You would have to attend a Maori gathering. It’s no secret in Maoridom that some tribes don’t like Ngai Tahu. The common denominator in their critique is the tribe is too Pakehafied; and believe they are a little better than the rest. I make no comment on those perceptions.

    When I met the PM, at the hakari (feast) afterwards, I overheard a couple of attendees badmouthing NgaiTahu. Nothing new here. Probably many tribes would have been badmouthed.

    Reply
  11. Corky

     /  23rd April 2020

    HDA played an interview from Sir John Key on A Chinese TV station (NZ I presume). Very interesting.

    Reply
  12. Corky

     /  23rd April 2020

    So, Lurchy…what could you do with $1500 dollars? Get fats on the scooter…maybe a CB radio? A large bottle of Bay Rum ( scalp formula…not hair) 😀

    I’m still thinking about what I will do.😔

    Reply

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