Open Forum Monday

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73 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  4th May 2020

    The big wet continues at Pookden Manor today.
    I blame the government.

    Reply
    • David

       /  4th May 2020

      We have a few spots today but Christchurch has had an awesome run of weather its no wonder no one wants to go back to work. Back to glorious weather on Wednesday with sunshine and 20s into the weekend.

      Reply
      • artcroft

         /  4th May 2020

        Auckland had some much needed rain, but it’s cleared away now.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  4th May 2020

          Actually things are looking up here already too. The rain’s stopped & patches of blue sky are visible thru lightening clouds. Don’t want to get too excited tho – Metservice forecast for Welly today is:

          Today’s Forecast
          Occasional showers, chance heavy from afternoon. Northerlies.

          Reply
    • I blame the parents, Gezza.

      It’s been glorious here most of the day, but the skies suddenly opened, then closed as if someone had turned the tap off.

      Reply
  2. David

     /  4th May 2020

    I think we need to be at level 2 now, we have met all the criteria the government wanted to get there. The new cases in the last week were quarantined recent returnees and oddly health workers there is no community transmission and the cost now exceeds the benefits by an enormous degree.
    I bet this week we get no more different results to the week before despite 400,000 people being allowed to go back to work. At least let retail workers back to work and push harder for pupils to return to school.
    We are not a country that should fear a 2nd wave as we never really got the a 1st one, notwithstanding the error Ardern made by not quarantining at the border quickly enough.
    Slow to shut down, slow to quarantine and slow to re open.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  4th May 2020

      Someone on 1News at 6 (not in a critical manner) described our current state as “level 3.9”.

      Level 3 does seem to be some kind of vague transitional hybrid between 2 & 4.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  4th May 2020

        Simon said that in a critical manner and got howled down by the Lefty geese.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  4th May 2020

          Proving that it’s not what you say, it’s who you are and/or how you say it?

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  4th May 2020

            And when you say it. It’s never popular to be right too soon in the face of emotional lunatics.

            Reply
      • David

         /  4th May 2020

        Oxford University had our lockdown at 100 out of a 100 and level 3 is not a lot different to 4 and is still a lot tougher than most other countries and we dont have an outbreak we have nailed that.
        I would like an explanation as to why Mitre 10 and Bunnings arnt open and before Duker gets out of bed click and collect only applies to smaller items and I couldnt get a flooring sheet, decking and skirting board. I can understand bars and restaurants until next week but not retail.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  4th May 2020

          Obviously no different from supermarkets. Just another bit of power-crazy from our leadership gangsters.

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  4th May 2020

          ‘ I couldnt get a flooring sheet, decking and skirting board. ‘…my sympathy,you are certainly doing it tough and have to put up with bad hair days from the squeeze as well.
          They should have dispensation for the better class of people.

          Anyone for…golf.

          Reply
          • David

             /  4th May 2020

            Let me explain Blazer, I get the flooring sheet in and the skirting board on then I can give the lino guy some work, I can pay the lino supplier, then the plumber can do his thing and get paid, then the sparky can come back and he gets paid then the carpet layer gets to earn and then I can get the concreters in to do the drive then I can give the property to a property manager and its a nice well managed home for a tenant.
            Stop me getting my flooring panel and $35,000 of economic activity gets delayed for nearly 3 weeks. Might not seem much but the carpet layer has made 2 of his workers redundant one that he was training up.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  4th May 2020

              so they did not receive the Govt subsidy then?Seems suss.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  4th May 2020

    So the Govt and police have been lying about their legal powers all along:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329263

    We are led by a pack of scumbags.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  4th May 2020

      Hang on, Mustafa Shufti … 😐

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  4th May 2020

      Leaked emails from the police top brass show how legally exposed they felt when the country was ordered into lockdown in March.

      Emails from Deputy Commissioner Mike Clement to district commanders and to the now Commissioner Andy Coster show a Crown Law opinion warning the police they had little or no power to enforce the lockdown.

      The phools, Sir Alan. Did they not know all they had to do was consult our resident meerkat?

      That opener has captured my attention. I shall read on …

      🛡 Sir Gerald ⚔

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  4th May 2020

        … Pressed on whether certain iwi-led roadblocks were appropriate, Ardern said police should always be involved in road blocks – nobody else apart from Civil Defence had the right to turn people around on the road.

        Hosking said there were gangs running roadblocks at Murupara. Ardern said that was not her understanding but nobody had the legal grounds to stop people without police involved.

        When the police emails were read to him, National’s police spokesman Mark Mitchell said he wasn’t surprised at how vulnerable the police were feeling at the moment.

        Mitchell, a former police officer, says many officers have approached him saying they’re uneasy about enforcing the lockdown rules. They’re afraid they don’t have the legal standing the Government’s been claiming they have.

        Mitchell says when Parliament resumed last week, Government should have introduced urgent legislation to clarify the orders and give an assurance to police they were enforcing a law that was legal.

        “This has been a mess right from the beginning and one can only hope the Government’s not opening itself to legal challenge,” Mitchell said.

        “When it became apparent that there were legality issues with lockdown, we offered to assist the Government to pass legislation. The offer was declined.

        “The Crown Law Office advice should have been made public,” Mitchell said.

        And in legal circles questions abound. The benefits of not relying on legal advice from Duker
        seem very clear. Unless he is able to clear matters up for all the experts outside this blog. Another big hit to that ginormous & rapacious ego.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  4th May 2020

          Situation normal …. you are so easily conned….. theres a fool for every con artist

          Health Act
          “71APower of constables to assist medical officer of health in relation to infectious diseases
          (1)A constable may do any thing reasonably necessary (including the use of force)
          (a)to help a medical officer of health or any person authorised by a medical officer of health in the exercise or performance of powers or functions under section 70 or 71; or.”

          and Civil Defence Emergency Management Act
          “88 Closing roads and public places
          If a state of emergency is in force, a Controller or a constable, or any person acting under the authority of a Controller or constable, or any person so authorised in a relevant civil defence emergency management plan, may, in order to prevent or limit the extent of the emergency, totally or partially prohibit or restrict public access, with or without vehicles, to any road or public place within the area or district in respect of which the state of emergency is in force.

          Fancy giving constables all these powers ….. who are these strange things called CONSTABLES…. do you have them amoung your feathered friends in your little arboretum Gexzza ?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  4th May 2020

            Nope. I’m not easily fooled. There will be further Court challenges arising from aspects of police actions & decisions, from better litigants, I’m almost certain of it. I await those with much more interest than in your citations there.

            No, the denizens of Gezza’s stream police their own domains in accordance with the laws of nature which pertain to their specific species.

            I only police them at Pooden Manor.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  4th May 2020

              *Pookden Manor.

              (Although after 6 of them have been in the backyard, trimming my lawn, for about 20-30 minutes, Pooden might sometimes be an appropriate descriptor of how the lawn & environs appear.)

            • Duker

               /  4th May 2020

              Arent easily fooled …and you believe Soper ?
              Of course even reason wont penetrate the densest block , but many others read this, so Ill do it all over again.
              Ive just pointed out the powers of constables in the epidemic provisions of the Health Act and the State of Emergency Management Act

              More fool you for not seeing the obvious – The Deputy Commissioners emails are referring to General powers of constables only . of course we wouldnt want cops to have everyday/general powers to tell people to stay at home or not go and visit the rels down country …would we now.
              Its clear as a bell the power to stop a vehicle under general powers is for only when they suspect an offence has occurred ( leaving aside license checks or breath alcohol which can be random, but they just say ‘didnt indicate’ if they want to stop you anyway – any lawyer will tell you that)

            • Gezza

               /  4th May 2020

              I am aware of that. I am satisfied that the police now have authority to exercise the Covid-19 powers they initially did not. But I remain of the view that there are likely still to be challenges to how they exercise those powers, or possibly even where they failed to. Time will tell.

              Please sit down, you are blocking my view.

            • The Police Commissioner is happy with the legal situation – more on this in a new post:
              https://yournz.org/2020/05/04/police-commissioner-confident-lockdown-enforcement-was-legal/

            • My mother used to say ‘You make a better door than you do a window.’, Gezza.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  4th May 2020

        What have you got against meerkats? I think they are quite cute.

        Reply
    • Duker

       /  4th May 2020

      “So the Govt and police have been lying about their legal powers all along:”

      “71A Power of constables to assist medical officer of health in relation to infectious diseases
      (1)A constable may do any thing reasonably necessary (including the use of force)—
      (a)to help a medical officer of health or any person authorised by a medical officer of health in the exercise or performance of powers or functions under section 70 or 71; or…
      Similar Sections in State of Emergency laws

      why the hell does the laws mention constables, even using force, if there are no ‘powers’

      There is the ‘powers’ right there…. Soper isnt telling the ‘whole truth’ and and fools are thinking his claims are true…when they arent

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  4th May 2020

        Some fools have legal qualifications and some don’t.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  4th May 2020

          Soper has the power to beat up a story by mixing up general powers of police to stop and direct people and those restricted powers only for duration of emergency
          Notice the stories about the Police going into home to break up parties , as is legal under emergency powers-
          They are acting legally of course….[deleted dirty insinuation]

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  4th May 2020

            So much stupid. Soper doesn’t need the health check.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  4th May 2020

              Heres the Police Commsioner saying what I was saying
              “”In this case we had powers under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act and under a Health Notice. Early on the power we used were predominantly Civil Defence Emergency Management Act powers and those allowed us to give directions to people where it appeared that they weren’t complying with the lockdown controls.

              So that is what we were routinely doing and that was entirely lawful, where we took enforcement action early on it was for repeated, persistent breaches of directions given by police. So those were the powers we had, those were the powers we used and as I say I’m confident that we acted lawfully.”

              Mark Mitchell passing on leaked emails to Soper who then does a classic beatup thats designed to mislead fools and simpletons- and malcontents

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th May 2020

              Police Commissioner playing politics as usual. The emails say different as is likely the courts would.

            • Duker

               /  4th May 2020

              Heres Mark Mitchell as reported in Sopers story
              “Meanwhile, when the police emails were read to him, ( By Soper,
              pleeeese) National’s police spokesman Mark Mitchell said he wasn’t surprised at how vulnerable the police were feeling at the moment.
              Mitchell, a former police officer, says many officers have approached him saying they’re uneasy about enforcing the lockdown rules. They’re afraid they don’t have the legal standing the Government’s been claiming they have.”
              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329263
              Funny that Mitchell , a former police dog handler, has friends saying its not legal , but the Police Commissioner is very confident they are

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th May 2020

              Not confident enough to release their legal advice though.

            • Gezza

               /  4th May 2020

              Their legal advisers have probably forbidden that. Attorney-client privelege isn’t something Senior Legal Counsel surrender lightly.

  4. Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  4th May 2020

      This sort of fatuous nonsense makes even public health modeling seem intelligent.

      Reply
  5. Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  4th May 2020

      Expected. Hard to rationalise the crazed furore over the flu vaccine other than as a symptom of the madness of crowds.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  4th May 2020

      If everyone stays in their homes, you can eliminate flu as well. What a good idea, perhaps you should try it.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  4th May 2020

        I’d read it’s just like the flu’ sort of comments so was interested when I saw a heading the other day:
        “There’s a more accurate way to compare coronavirus deaths to the flu. If we measure flu mortality the same way we count covid-19 deaths, the picture becomes very stark.”

        So I read it. One comment down the page: “Some cherry-pick a single number that comports with their biases, creating an artificial certainty to score political points or avoid upsetting their preconceptions. That’s what the politicians and talking heads using faulty flu data to downplay the outbreak are doing.”

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/02/theres-more-accurate-way-compare-coronavirus-deaths-flu/

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  4th May 2020

          Faulty? Deaths from Covid-19 are not in any way accurate. Anyone who dies with ‘suspected’ Covid is recorded as a Covid death. No test is required. No causation is required.

          Reply
          • How to provoke panic and fear; no need for tests, just record it anyway. One of the dead here had a negative test, but so what, he was recorded as a covid case.

            Reply
          • duperez

             /  4th May 2020

            All around the world there are people disputing the accuracy of figures in just about all countries and who gets put on lists, or not, and for whatever arbitrary reason.

            With that in mind do we take your “Anyone who dies with ‘suspected’ Covid is recorded as a Covid death” as ‘the word?’

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  4th May 2020

              People die ‘as a result’ of a car accident too, not only those who literally killed ‘by the accident’
              Its a nonsense to say medical staff arent allocating deaths accurately …within reason , maybe a few % variation .

  6. Blazer

     /  4th May 2020

    true to form-‘save a million babies’-0….latest money maker …’ensure no NZ schoolkid goes hungry’…

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/07/31/172742/another-delay-for-sir-ray

    Reply
  7. Zedd

     /  4th May 2020

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/j-day-crowd-tiny-passing-support-big

    JDAY/MIL launch in Sth D

    Im one of the folks in the video 🙂

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  4th May 2020

      Umm … well done. Do you have a beard?

      Intermission from his late Majesty, the Reggae King, RIP

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  4th May 2020

        Gezza

        Zedd is just one of many hiding in plain sight… 15-20% of the population, who inhale by choice & 80% who reportedly have ‘tried it’ at least once

        CheeeeerZZ vote ‘yes’

        Reply
        • Are you the clean-shaven one ? I don’t think that you are the long haired one on the left.

          Reply
          • Zedd

             /  4th May 2020

            you maybe right kitty 🙂

            Reply
            • some of us, just prefer it to alcohol…

              cannabis will always be here. Prohibition (hammer) is the tool that you use, when all you see are nails; we are actually people.. not nails

            • And it doesn’t have any calories.

              You’re rather dishy, Zedd. (flutters eyelashes)

            • Zedd

               /  4th May 2020

              You’re rather dishy, Zedd. (flutters eyelashes) sez kitty
              I think your looking at the wrong person ?

              btw: Im a dog person.. kitty 😀

            • Blazer

               /  4th May 2020

              so is she…2 in the house.

        • (hisses, fluffs tail and walks away)

          Reply
  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  4th May 2020

    No.new cases – but it was Sunday …

    Reply
  9. lurcher1948

     /  4th May 2020

    I would like to refer back to Peter Williams today, Shawn Plunkett is having a wet dream about star wars,but back to righty Peter Williams who gets calls from angry old white man,calls from angry old white man,,,ETC…ETC…then Simon Bridges stirring the ferals up,even more,PM Jacinda Ardern must be doing it right when Williams says”comrade”.When PM Jacinda Ardern goes high,Magic Radio and their feral rightwing audience goes low,its win-win for Jacinda Ardern
    PS The govt gave money to the rightwing Magic Radio owned from overseas to keep them going, LET THEM GO UNDER, Trump and Murdock and Fox will provide

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  4th May 2020

      Magic talk radio had ‘already pre-existing illness’ before covid. It may have an increased audience , but their new advertisers would be funeral insurance..
      To think they once had people of the quality of Michael Laws, he had some quaint views, but still he had the right touch.
      Thats why they split off of Magic Music from Magic talk, so one can be ‘left to die off’

      Reply
  10. duperez

     /  4th May 2020

    The big question of the post Cabinet conference? “Have we sent Boris Johnson a present for the birth of his son?”

    Unfortunately Ardern made some noises which suggest something’s being done. Which means we won’t get to see the headlines, ‘NZ snubs UK’, ‘Ardern cold-shoulders Boris’, ‘Government’s embarrassing gaffe.’

    The side of that which isn’t so bright is the journalist can now string it out over days since we don’t exactly know. What will we get for the kid? What should we get for the kid? The life history of the 79 year who started a factory in Fielding that produced the All Black shirt we sent Boris for his kid. The matching shirts we sent for dad and son? How Jonah Lomu inspired Boris and so we put 11 on the back of his kid’s shirt. NZ journalism will have a chance to flourish at its best. 🙃

    Reply
    • The best present would be a donation to a children’s charity, I think. The new arrival will be inundated with presents.

      Reply

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