Peters confuses funeral and venue gathering rules, suggests the death of the hongi

When asked about the limit of 10 people able to gather for funerals or tangis, Winston Peters confirmed the need for that rule – those sorts of gatherings usually involve a lot of close contact.

But he then created some confusion  among journalists when asked if groups of ten people could then go to a wake at a venue that provided foot (from Thursday) or a bar (from next Thursday). He said that that was within the rules. It seems to be different to what Jacinda Ardern said yesterday.

Peters seemed to differentiate between a hundred people going to a hall after a funeral and a similar number gathering on a marae. He also question whether a hongi “will ever come back again”.

Question: What’s your message to people who are pointing out inconsistencies with the Level 2 rules, saying a hundred people if they’re in groups of ten can go to a restaurant for example, or a cinema, but they can’t attend a tangi or a funeral?

Peters:  …the number one desire of people who attend a tangi or funeral is to emotionally connect by embracing and other ways of making a connection…for once I heard from an industry that understood why the health department and the government is concerned. And we hope to get out of that situation as fast as we possibly can.

But right here right now the funeral circumstance is so difficult.

Now it’s possible to go to a function after the funeral to a hall and sit down with a hundred people, spaced properly if you follow the three ‘s’ rule, a but having it right on site at the side of the burial place with more than ten people just seemed to all the advisers to be so difficult.

Question: So you’re saying that people can go to a hall after a small kind of funeral or tangi of ten people, they could go to a hall with a hundred people if they were properly distanced…

Peters: Properly distanced, ten at a table, served by one person in each case at each table, that’s possible.

Question: My understanding from the Prime Minister yesterday was that all groups had to be under ten but are you saying that you could have a group…

Peters: No, ten or less.

Question: So you’re saying you could go to a hall with a hundred people and hold a kind of off-site funeral or wake?

Peters: No, you can have the aftermath, the Irish style so to speak, or the Scottish style, and be within the law.

Question: So why is it any different from having a hundred people at a marae for example.

Peters: Because the Marae circumstance is much more closed in. The distance rule would be impossible to keep. I mean one of the things you have to have regard for is whether the hongi in these circumstances is ever going to come back again, because it’s just the nature of things, and there’s a famous old saying that says “Cultures that don’t adapt die”, and we’ve got to be so so careful.

Peters seems to be saying that an Irish or Scottish style after-funeral gathering is fine, but a a Maori style gathering is forbidden.

Question: ..saying it would be up to Iwi whether hongi was reintroduced, are you saying it shouldn’t be?

Peters: I’m just putting out there into the Maori world, to say that cultures that don’t adapt die. Our lives and our old people’s lives in particular are on the line here

The lessons from the Spanish flu were catastrophic. The percentage of Maori dying was eight times that of Europeans, and we were down to fifty thousand people at the end of it.  Now there’s a past lesson.

The present one now, and in terms of colds, flus, influenza and Covid-19, it surely makes sense for us to consider it.

Question: I’m somewhat confused about this gathering of a hundred people, because the Prime Minister was really clear yesterday it had to be a cap of ten people.

Peters: Well it’s very unlikely that any one family will go to a funeral with more than ten people…

Question: …there’s people out there who are upset because they’ve waited until level 2 to hold a tangi or funeral who are waiting to make that decision, and they thought from what the Prime Minister was saying yesterday was that they couldn’t have a gathering of the hundred people but you’re now saying that they can.

Peters: Not at the funeral itself, but at the wake they could organise it, whether they go to a restaurant or organise it under the same guidelines that are capable of being attested to and examined. It’s for their own safety.

And that’s a fact. When families go to a funeral they don’t always go en masse the right amount of (relatives?) to show the right amount of respect.

Jacinda Ardern when she announced moving to Level 2:

Gatherings at home, need to be capped at 10. Church and religious events, weddings, funerals, stag dos – all must be limited to 10 for now.

And if you’re wanting to head to a restaurant, or a bar, they won’t be able to take group bookings larger than 10. This, alongside social distancing, is our insurance policy.

And why 10? Simple. If something goes wrong with a group of 10, that’s much easier to contain, much easier to contact trace, and much less likely that if something goes wrong that the whole country will have to experience more restrictions.

I expect we will here more of this.

Ardern is just answering questions about the funeral limitation now at the daily update.  She starts by saying how hard it is on people who want to have funerals.

She has been asked about 100 people wakes and Cabinet having different messages and she avoids answering the question directly and goes into a general spiel.

They considered a different way of dealing with funerals and tangis but “it was just very difficult to find a way”.

Ardern keeps reiterating the ten person group limit.

Source for Peters (around 15-19 minutes).

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23 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  12th May 2020

    Hopeless.

    Reply
    • You could say you took Winston’s advice and just tell people not to come in groups of more than ten. But they might need different rooms or different tables, and no hongis.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th May 2020

      Peters will no doubt claim that he wasn’t confused, the reporters were.

      Reply
  2. Kimbo

     /  12th May 2020

    Peters seems to be saying that an Irish or Scottish style after-funeral gathering is fine, but a a Maori style gathering is forbidden.

    Echoing Sir Apirana Ngata’s policy of over 100 years ago? 😳😁

    Reply
  3. Reply
  4. Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th May 2020

      Not just a Maori issue, bud, but I’m with you on this. Make the rules clear & we’ll follow them. We’re not children & she’s not our mum or our primary school teacher.

      Reply
      • I can’t see that it’s any worse for a Maori to be unable to attend a funeral than a Pakeha; we all feel the same grief.

        The PM’s language (punishing the whole country for the breaches of a relatively small number is one example) is very much that of a bossy teacher.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  12th May 2020

          It’s much more worser than just behaving like a teacher. She’s got into the habit at her regular Covid Shows of lecturing & preaching as though her audience of adults is a class of primary school kids. It’s pretty winceable sometimes.

          Reply
          • That’s one reason why I stopped watching the news for ages.

            It was too irritating, and I was tired of the sensationalist sound effects and dramatic pictures of people in ‘PPE”

            Right on cue, there is an item about this…the PM woffling and trying to sound sympathetic (there was an announcement about there being 0 new cases,

            The bizarre thing is that 100 people can be in a bar or cinema.

            Reply
        • Corky

           /  12th May 2020

          ”I can’t see that it’s any worse for a Maori to be unable to attend a funeral than a Pakeha; we all feel the same grief.”

          The point is the structure of a tangi and European funeral. Poroporoaki ( in this context: final speeches from the floor on the last night the body lies in state) is very important because it allows all to say farewell, tell stories, berate or thank the dead person. For most the poroporoaki is one of the most important events during a tangi apart from church which usually is at 7am and again at 7pm.

          Reply
  5. Gezza

     /  12th May 2020

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300010445/coronavirus-winston-peters-suggests-hongi-may-never-return

    Classic Winston Peters. Gets him heaps of attention. Dog whistles to the Te Ao Maori bashers (but gets away with it because he’s Maori & comfortable talking on marae) & makes a Pakeha liberal media issue out of something he already knows is a non-issue for Maori & ain’t going to happen.

    Reply
  6. Still a difference between Ardern and Peters over the wake rules.

    Ardern reiterated that position today when asked about Peters’ comments.

    However, Peters continued to insist he was right.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12331408

    This won’t help an already confusing situation and unclear rules.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th May 2020

      They’ll have to go ! 😡

      Who else have we got ? o_O

      Reply
      • Bluey and Sweety ?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  12th May 2020

          Interesting thought, but they only have 4 or 5 other party members, besides themselves, between them, their party isn’t registered, they spend most of their day in or around the stream, they shriek more than 1News’s Melissa Stokes (if that’s possible), they dig holes in the lawn unless ypu watch them like a hawk & they shit on everything, everywhere, seemingly blithely unaware that they’re even doing it.

          Mind you, that last one probably could qualify one of them to lead NZF.

          Reply
  7. Peters made a poor and ill-judged attempt at a joke in Question Time today.

    Rt Hon Winston Peters: Did the Prime Minister get any communication—because this is about communication—of thanks from Mr Bridges or Paula Bennett for insisting upon the 10 people at funerals rule so that the National Party MPs couldn’t meet and roll their leaders?

    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20200512_050640000/5-question-no-5-prime-minister

    A lot of people won’t be seeing the funeral rules fiasco as a joking matter.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th May 2020

      I’m certainly not. Very likely cost NZF & Labour my Party Vote. They’d have to really pull something big out of the bag to make me change my mind on this.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th May 2020

      What the bloody hell have they done to the Parliament Website?

      My bookmark to go straight to the videos of Oral Questions isn’t working – 404 result – can’t find the page.

      Looks like some dickhead has done an “On Demand” redesign that makes it a pain to try & find the videos for Oral Questions, seem like you have to click through pages of parliamentary debate dribble, or fill out a filter. Did they get some spotty kid to do it?

      Reply
  8. I can’t see it as a subject for mirth. The people who couldn’t be with their dying family members, like the woman who couldn’t be with her son who was dying of melanoma won’t be laughing.

    Reply

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