Open Forum Thursday

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80 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  28th May 2020

    So the great POTUS 45 Donald Trump wants to shut down Twitter to protect “free speech ” their sin,a fact checking link.😳

    Reply
  2. artcroft

     /  28th May 2020

    White supremacists at Charlottesville: “You will not replace us.”
    Capital and Coast District Health Board: “Hold my hand-crafted, organic, mint infused kombucha”.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  28th May 2020

      😳

      Wot?

      Please don’t tell me this was something on 7 Sharp last night arty.

      Reply
        • Gezza

           /  28th May 2020

          Ok, had a read. Noted that:

          Clinical urgency was determined by a scoring system, Capital & Coast District Health Board (CCDHB) medical officer John Tait said. In general, the higher the score, the greater the urgency for treatment.

          “Very high scores are often associated with high risk of cancer, conditions that may rapidly deteriorate, or conditions posing a significant risk to the patient’s current health status.

          “The aim of this work is to improve access to health care for Māori and Pasifika people.

          It is unlikely that any other patients will be significantly affected as a result of this work,” he said. The decision aligned with a direction towards improved equity in healthcare, Tait said.

          Māori and Pasifika patients could be prioritised “within a given clinical priority band”, he said.

          “We anticipate that our plans to increase planned surgery overall will offset our policy, meaning any impact on other patients would be minimal.”

          Not going to over-react here. My access to services for follow up monitoring so far has been excellent.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  28th May 2020

            PS: Irritated by that embedded video clip of Paul Goldsmith telling the repeaters he’s NOT Maori, as Nikki Kaye had so gobsmackingky idiotically claimed.

            It’s got nothing whatsoever to do with the article topic. Stuff do this sort of thing all the time now. Daft as, bro.

            Reply
          • artcroft

             /  28th May 2020

            “It is unlikely that any other patients will be significantly affected as a result of this work,” he said.”

            Sounds like a fob off to me.

            Logically speaking, unless services are increased or efficiencies found others are going to be affected; or, no one is going to be affected, in which case why do it.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  28th May 2020

              Well they say in there it’s to help address poor health outcomes for Maori. Whether that’s the result of an instruction from the guvermint or just a local DHB initiative I can’t tell. The Health Minister declined to comment saying it’s a board decision.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  28th May 2020

            Bureaucratic racist b.s. If everyone is treated on the same basis of need and urgency how is anyone disadvantaged? If they aren’t, heads should roll.

            Reply
  3. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    US cops kill another unarmed black man, provoking civil unrest.

    “Four Minneapolis police officers who were involved in the arrest of a black man who died in police custody were fired today”

    Very disturbing video of the incident shown on 1News at 6 last night. Cop kneeling on his neck, bystanders notice he’s not breathing. Paramedics attending took his pulse, never told the policeman to stop kneeling on his neck.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/cant-breathe-confronting-video-shows-us-cop-kneeling-mans-neck-before-he-dies-in-custody

    I’ve seen NZ cops seemingly overreacting to the occasional situation here – although more often than not folk seem to be complaining in the media that they DIDN’T do anything when they should have.

    But I’ve watched a few episodes of PD Uncut Live on telly & that & other programmes makes it look like the US is chock-full of cops – state & city police, FBI, ATF. And the local troopers seem very abrupt & authoritarian. (You do also see plenty of cops exercising patience & restraint tho, I’ll admit.)

    The default setting for US police appears to be “First we have to handcuff your hands behind your back. THEN we can discuss this.”

    Andy Coster was shown on 1News at 6 last night. I only saw about half the item. It seems there’s to be a review of whether our SWAT-style Armed Offenders Squad is fit for purpose in today’s policing environment.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  28th May 2020

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/armed-offenders-squad-under-major-review-including-whether-remains-fit-purpose-v1

      “It comes after 1 NEWS last night revealed the police knew its trial of a new Armed Response Team had problems before it even started.

      A localised review has already begun in Auckland.”

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  28th May 2020

        And…the previous night’s tv item referred to (I missed seeing this):

        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nz-police-knew-armed-response-team-trials-were-flawed-beginning

        “New Zealand Police knew its trial of an Armed Response Team had problems even before the test started.”

        Reply
        • Gerrit

           /  28th May 2020

          No need for the armed offenders squad anymore as Police have decided (or given away) responsibility on who is in charge in regards law and order.

          “Black Power members also blocked intersections with their motorbikes during the procession from the funeral home.

          ‘‘The gang members were highly visible — the blocking of intersections was unexpected and we were not in a position to stop that from occurring,’’ Sgt Baker wrote.”

          https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/police-allowed-gang-tangi

          By sheer weight of numbers and intimidation is now all tha tis required for Police to back down on any law and order situation. Who needs an armed offenders squad when mob rule is in force?

          Reply
          • artcroft

             /  28th May 2020

            True, true, true.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  28th May 2020

              The US sometimes seems to have too many cops. We don’t have enuf.

          • Corky

             /  28th May 2020

            I have spoken about this previously, Gerrit. [Deleted, you don’t speak for others], and if they did gang members aren’t the only ones who block intersections.

            ”Despite the breaches, police said in an internal email ‘‘trying to stop it will only create a worse situation for all’’.

            There’s the problem for starters. And the solution is simple. The solution would only have to be applied a few times for gang bangers to get the message.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  28th May 2020

              I agree. The police hierarchy & politicians’ tuff talk about the focus police are putting on targeting gang crime is a smokescreen for the fact there are simply not enuf police, where they are most needed, & that they don’t have a strategy for coming down hard on gang anti-social, threatening, & intimidatory behaviour .

            • Corky

               /  28th May 2020

              I wasn’t speaking for others, Pete. I was explaining what had been previously stated…and the fact I had been taken to task for talking bs on this topic . As Gerrit’s post shows…I wasn’t talking bs.

    • lurcher1948

       /  28th May 2020

      Derick Cauvin is the name of this killer cop,there are pictures of him circulating online at a Trump rally wearing Todd Mullers red hat (now hidden in a box).The killer cops life is going to take a turn for the worse.The other 3 sacked cops lives isn’t going to improve either.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  28th May 2020

      Those cops shown on One News last night will either be charged with manslaughter or murder. To be fair to them, they claim offender resistance before the alleged incident. And you have to understand in America, people on the street play for keeps.

      https://nleomf.org/facts-figures/law-enforcement-facts

      That said, not even those factors excuse the actions of these police officers, especially as one was just standing around while the offending officer continued his actions. That cretin didn’t even have the intelligence to check the vitals of the offender being restrained. Add to that the bystanders calling out that the man on the ground was in distress, and it’s really a cut and dry court case in my opinion.

      For the more observant, have a look at the police officers face; the one doing the restraining.
      It fits my mental profile of a feral white. The hands in his pocket..a sign of absolute control by an alpha white male dealing to black street scum.

      But what I can’t fathom is the lack of perception these officers had. Witnesses, past black person killings by police officers and the Covid environment – so many people looking for a cause and questioning everything at the moment

      Reply
      • Hardly black street scum; he was a security guard in his 40s.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  28th May 2020

          Anything to add to the debate apart from some pithy worthless comment. The guy was an alleged criminal. You did know that, didn’t you?

          Reply
          • That hardly justifies killing him. Alleged doesn’t mean guilty, odd as that might seem. The idea is that someone is innocent until proved guilty.

            He was unarmed when he was murdered.

            I fail to see why you object to my joining in the ‘debate’; it’s not your private blog and it’s not for you to say who can or can’t join in.

            How are your Mr Chips shoestring chips, made in NZ from NZ potatoes and imported from NZ to NZ ?

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  28th May 2020

            Rioting is spreading. Some shown in LA on 1News at 6 tonite.
            Also other bystander video shows him being hauled out of his car, then, already handcuffed, walking calmly & peacefully to the police vehicle alongside which he was murdered.

            The arresting officers’ claim that he was resisting arrest doesn’t look like it’ll stack up.

            They’ve all got bodycams; those will be needed to be checked to find out exactly what happened after the point where the bystander video cuts out.

            Reply
            • I didn’t see the bit where he walked to the cop car. Those cops must be cursing the way that anyone now can make a video.

          • Corky

             /  28th May 2020

            ”That hardly justifies killing him. Alleged doesn’t mean guilty, odd as that might seem. The idea is that someone is innocent until proved guilty.”

            That shows you have not understood my post at all. You need to up your game and contribute instead of being continuously negative.

            I don’t know what chips have to do with the equation. But:

            ”And which are not sold in supermarkets but are sold as bulk buys to takeaway places ?”

            Well, either I own a takeaway joint, or they are sold in supermarkets. Of course, most takeaway joints use standard chip sizes that come in paper bags.
            My shoestring chips came in a plastic bag?

            ”How are your Mr Chips shoestring chips, made in NZ from NZ potatoes and imported from NZ to NZ ?”

            How did you know that?🤨

            It’s a wonder you haven’t commented on the officer with his hands in his pocket while he has his knee on the offender?

            Reply
      • NOEL

         /  28th May 2020

        ” MPD also does not typically teach the “knee on neck” technique and instead teaches “knee into shoulder blades” as a restraint tactic.”
        Guess someone has a cop out.

        Reply
  4. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    Susan Edmunds, Stuff

    Almost 12,000 people have been made redundant or have their jobs on the line as part of headline-grabbing restructures prompted by the Covid-19 pandemic.

    The latest Jobseeker data shows an extra 53,000 people have signed up for the benefit since the week of March 20. There are another 40,000 special needs grants being issued each week.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300022327/12000-headlinegrabbing-redundancies-tip-of-the-iceberg

    I still have the feeling the recovery is not going to be as hard or take as long as the economic doomsayers predict. But it’s becoming more of an earnest hope than a conviction.

    Reply
    • David

       /  28th May 2020

      I think we will be OK, I dont think the government are helping all that much but lets hope they can stop blowing money on stuff that could wait such as pay parity for teachers aides, an overly generous welfare system for what could be quite wealthy people who receive generous redundancies.
      They are not letting this crisis go to waste.

      Reply
      • I was very hopeful, but am becoming less so; perhaps it was just a reaction to being relatively free again.

        But the number of unemployed and those suffering real hardship like the man on 3 who was holding back tears is terrifying.. An Australian financial pundit says that Jacinda has kicked our economy off the cliff, and I fear that he’s right.

        Reply
      • David, do you think that people with large redundancy payouts should get the UB and keep the redundancy money as if it was an asset ? With the huge number of people now unemployed, I think that the redundancy should be used for what it is intended for; a substitute for pay and not a bonus.

        Reply
      • Fight4nz

         /  28th May 2020

        Just saw those teachers aides you say should be made to wait. I wonder if you own a washing machine or have to use a laundromat like one of those undeserving aides who hasn’t been able to afford one until they got this massive $4.50 – $6.00 per hour.

        Reply
    • Fight4nz

       /  28th May 2020

      Did you see the item on 6news last night about the super yachts on the way here for millions of dollars worth of work each. And to stay on for America’s Cup. Crews basically in isolation for weeks getting here and prepared to anchor for more if required. Still not given entry permission. 4 turned back so far.
      This is when stupid bureaucracy/ government really pisses me off!

      Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  28th May 2020

    Was there something wrong with my post PG about Trumps threat to ban twitter because Twitter have added a fact checker to counter Trumps lies,Trump says it takes away his “free speech”

    Reply
  6. David

     /  28th May 2020

    I would like to see the opposition get their act together, Muller needs to remember which party is in and is starting to look like the balance between him and Nikki is the opposite to what we were led to believe.
    He is pushing hard for cash for small businesses, cash for commercial landlords, more government loans to businesses and its not really what National voters want or small businesses. We need an opposition sharply focused on the fiscal implications rather than bitching that Ardern is not vomiting enough cash out of the door.
    The figures from both of the government backed loan schemes have been very poor, the interest free one is bonkers, and there is a reason for that and you would hope Muller the champion of small businesses might figure that the small businesses that have a future dont need the money and they negotiated with their landlords 2 months ago.
    The bills have been paid and it was painful but now we want a clear regulatory run with a government firmly focused on running its own accounts properly like the way we have had to.

    Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    This is curious 😐 … Stuff:

    “The Ministry of Health is investigating the cause of a 96-year-old Auckland woman’s death, which has been said to be due to coronavirus.

    An obituary published in the New Zealand Herald on Wednesday says Eileen Margaret Hunter died “due to Covid-19” on Sunday. The death notice described Hunter as “a beautiful lady with a heart of gold”.

    The Ministry of Health says it is still investigating her cause of death.

    The last confirmed death due to Covid-19 was reported on May 6, a spokeswoman said. It was aware of the case queried by Stuff and was investigating. It expected it would be able to provide an update on Thursday.

    The ministry said it would not comment on a specific case or person due to privacy reasons. It is understood Hunter was a resident at the CHT St Margarets Rest Home, which has been at the centre of New Zealand’s fifth-largest coronavirus cluster.”

    A missed case?

    Reply
    • Or the family assuming that pneumonia meant Covid when it didn’t ?

      At 96, someone isn’t likely to have much longer to go anyway.

      Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  28th May 2020

      A missed case? No, this is deliberate under reporting. I posted on this yesterday

      Reply
    • Stuff, this arvo:

      “Only eight active cases of the coronavirus remain in New Zealand, while the death toll has risen to 22, the Ministry of Health has confirmed. Director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield on Thursday announced no new Covid-19 cases for the sixth straight day, with the number of confirmed and probable cases remaining at 1504.

      However, the suspected Covid-related death at the weekend of Eileen Hunter, a 96-year-old Auckland woman, has now been added to the official death toll, following an investigation. She was confirmed as having the virus in April and had been moved to a hospital, Bloomfield said.

      Eileen Hunter was considered to have recovered and had returned to St Margarets Hospital and Rest Home. But after recovering and returning negative results from two tests, Hunter was transferred back to St Margaret’s Hospital and Rest Home, where she was a resident.

      Covid-19 wasn’t the cause of the death, Bloomfield said, but would be counted for consistency with previous cases, taking the national toll to 22.”
      … … … …

      So…is every country following the same criteria or rules for counting Covid-19 deaths?

      If it wasn’t the cause of Hunter’s death, why is it counted as one?

      Reply
      • Bloomfield seemed uneasy about it on the news. It seemed as if he’d been pressured into it. He wouldn’t/couldn’t say what the actual cause of death was.

        If this was consistent, how many of the others didn’t actually die of it ? One of the others was negative; did he also die of something else altogether ?

        It makes no sense at all. Either someone dies of a disease or they don’t.

        If this is the general trend, the high rate of deaths may be totally inaccurate and even deliberate scaremongering.

        Reply
  8. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    Bomber, concluding, on Todd Muller’s Q+A interview:

    “…After watching Muller’s under prepared and over cooked interview, I think Jacinda will destroy him come the debates for the election.

    Hooton will be banging his head against the wall after this poor showing by Toddy, not too late to get your RNZ job back Hoots!

    After that performance by Muller, Simon’s 29% must be starting to look really good to National about now. Whatever you want to say about Simon Bridges, and I have said lots of very negative things and I would never vote for him in a million years, you knew where and what he stood for.

    I have no idea what a Todd Muller National Party would do other than look daft in a MAGA hat.”
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/05/26/media-watch-todd-mullers-car-crash-of-an-interview-on-qa/

    I miss Bradbury’s Waatea 5th Estate shows. While Bomber’s uber-Marxist soliloquies at the end of interviews was often more comedy than commentary to me – he did host some good political discussions with MPs of different parties. We don’t get to see enuf of these kinds of relaxed genuine debates between our political leaders & their team members, imo.

    Question Time is mostly theatre, & much of it is boring. And a precious few time-compressed multi-question hosted leaders’ debates every 3 years doesn’t give us much insight into how smart & onto it MPs & Ministers are.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  28th May 2020

      Bomber has had some great debates with Sean. The guy is no fool. However:

      ”After watching Muller’s under prepared and over cooked interview, I think Jacinda will destroy him come the debates for the election.”

      That is yet to be seen. If Bomber is right…National will definitely have a new leader before the 2023 election.

      I have also noted how devoid of energy Nikki Kaye is. There’s no spark. Unfortunately that reinforces Muller’s reserved demeanour. That makes the pair look very plain.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  28th May 2020

        Yep. It does. While there’s no reason why there can’t be a different approach to politics than a gladiatorial one, even Ardern at times has shown a bit of mongrel, underneath the niceness.

        One of them is going to have to show a bit of fight. And given where the media focus goes, it’ll have to be the leader. I don’t think he’s got it in him. Simon did, but he just never seemed to gel with me or the polled general public for other reasons. His timing, his accent, his judgement?

        I dunno. What’s your take?

        Most likely he won’t do a Rudd & end up with a 2nd chance at the leader job. But he might white ant his replacement. Nat supporters must be banging their heads against walls: “God … Please … let him not be even WORSE …”

        Reply
  9. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    Just spent a delightful 20 mins or so down at the eel spot, feeding Elvira aged minute steak chunks. Haven’t done it for months. Been too busy with me late ma.

    I cut up & tossed some past use by date sausages into the stream last night, figuring she or other eels would happily eat it.

    The pooks had babies too, so it wasn’t safe to go down there to feed her for a while, but they’re big enuf now not to trigger the attack/protection instinct in their dad & other adults, & and they’ve all wandered off up or downstream out of sight st the moment to forage.

    A Regional Council Worker came walking up the stream, spraying the blackberry (Yay!). He was utterly fascinated with her. Asked me for permission to video her (“Course you can mate. I don’t own her, just feed her”.) “Lots of eels in this stream” he said (I know) but she’s an absolute beauty. I think she’s the biggest one I’ve seen in this stream”.

    Another really keen nature lover. He was just adoring it as she swam around his gumboots.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  28th May 2020

      Aspen Pook II. He popped back to my place around 1.30 pm to see if there was any chance of lunch. He’ll get even closer to me than this – but he won’t take bread chunks from my hand, like a few of the others do.

      He wants to – the others who do will be standing there with him – he’ll come right up – but he always chickens out at the last moment and walks back just out of reach.

      Reply
  10. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    Rosemary McLeod:

    (Been so long since I’ve seen anything of hers I thought she’d died or been moved into an Old Folks Home)

    “Politics is in the optics. That’s why Todd Muller hid his bright red MAGA cap — too late mate — and why I laughed. Saying you have invisible Hillary Clinton pins somewhere isn’t all that convincing.”

    “What you’re left with this week is a new top Nat with terrible taste in caps, and two small blonde female sidekicks.”

    “I’m not a Collins hater. I enjoy big personalities, especially when they have a wicked Jack Nicholson grin. If she’s heartless, at least she’s upfront about it.”

    “Kaye’s nerves showed. Rising to defend the lack of racial diversity in the new caucus she said that Paul Goldsmith was Māori. He’s not. He only claims a forebear with both Māori and Pakeha wives who must have been a busy fellow.

    Amy Adams kept a wary eye on Muller, I thought. Possibly she and Collins retreated to the ladies’ loos later to sing, “It Should Have Been Me”. I would have.

    Paula Bennett, who really has Māori genes, slid 11 rungs down Muller’s ladder, either because she’s a bad brunette, as in old romance movies, or because Muller fears her sharp dress sense.”

    “Muller seems affable, but the MAGA cap will be an albatross round his neck for years to come, like Don Brash’s attempt to fit into a kids’ car. Lapses, as Freud would intone darkly, are revealing.

    In Muller’s job the junk on his desk, a mismatched sock, any half-chewed chocolate biscuit will now be observed and noted. As much as he now has his team of blondes to work with, he needs an optics minder to put incriminating evidence out of sight. A man might be useful.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/121651931/todd-muller-if-the-cap-fits-hide-it

    Now why can’t the younger ones excoriate their subjects with that kind of bitchy flair? Only Sir Bob Jones seems to match her.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  28th May 2020

      (Unless she’s changed her colour now & hasn’t updated her byline pic, bit of an own goal – Rosemary taking swipes at “blondes”.)

      Reply
  11. Gezza

     /  28th May 2020

    Gawd. Am I the only one on the bridge today? ⛴ 🇳🇿

    More doomsaying:

    “More than 200,000 children may be pushed into intermittent hardship by the coronavirus crisis, the children’s commissioner says.

    The commissioner, Judge Andrew Becroft, has told Stuff he has reconsidered a “remarkably accurate” estimate of how many children faced adversity in New Zealand, and it appears as many as 40 per cent might at times be confronting significant disadvantage due to the crisis.

    Becroft’s bleak forecast was a rough calculation, as official child poverty statistics would not be collated for months.

    Treasury, for the 2020 Budget, has projected a rise in children living below the poverty line that will take years to recover from.
    …”
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121653228/coronavirus-more-than-200000-children-may-face-hardship-childrens-commissioner-says

    Reply
    • That’s called collateral damage.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th May 2020

        The is not using the correct original definition of collateral damage. The original definition is about civilian loss of life; injury or loss of property due to military action.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  28th May 2020

          *That.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  29th May 2020

          Also from Wikipedia:

          “Etymology
          The word “collateral” comes from medieval Latin word collateralis, from col-, “together with” + lateralis (from latus, later-, “side” ) and is otherwise mainly used as a synonym for “parallel” or “additional” in certain expressions (e.g. “collateral veins” meaning veins running parallel to each other, or “collateral security” meaning security additional to the main obligation in a contract).[citation needed]

          The oldest known usage of the term “collateral damage” in this context occurred in an article written in May 1961 by T. C. Schelling entitled “DISPERSAL, DETERRENCE, AND DAMAGE”. The term “collateral damage” likely originated as a euphemism during the Vietnam War referring to friendly fire, or the intentional killing of non-combatants and destruction of their property.

          Non-military uses of the phrase
          The term has also been borrowed by the computing community to refer to the refusal of service to legitimate users when administrators take blanket preventative measures against some individuals who are abusing systems. For example, Realtime Blackhole Lists used to combat email spam generally block ranges of Internet Protocol (IP) addresses rather than individual IPs associated with spam, which can deny legitimate users within those ranges the ability to send email to some domains.

          The related term collateral mortality is also becoming prevalent, and probably derives from the term collateral damage. It has been applied to other spheres in addition to the original military context. Fisheries are an example of this, where bycatch of species such as dolphins are called collateral mortality; they are species that die in the pursuit of the legal death of fishing targets, such as tuna.”
          … … … …

          Responding to pedants with pedantry is justified & understandable but in my experience it never cures their pedantry.

          When the Yanks under Bush first started using the term militarily big time in the present day media, to depersonalise & justify the killing of innocents, I understood it – as someone with a reasonably good, though not extensive English vocabulary – logically to mean additional damage or adverse consequences to someone or something else caused as a by product of some action taken for another purpose.

          So, it’s become a widely known & accepted euphemism for that situation in contexts beyond strictly military situations, from my observations.

          Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  28th May 2020

      I’ve just been in the middle of the nightmare today. Drug addicted hopeless women having a succession of children they don’t and can’t look after, fathers and mothers in jail or headed there, young kids passed around families already stressed out and barely or not coping. Welfare and justice system useless at fixing the problems, often just make them worse.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  28th May 2020

        Dont worry Alan [deleted] Muller will fix it,it helps if its linked with small businesses….was it?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  28th May 2020

          No, don’t think a five year old being raped had anything to do with small business other than gangster drug dealing, Lurch, which is probably not in Muller’s portfolio. Do you have a point?

          Reply
    • Pink David

       /  28th May 2020

      The most amusing part of that is that Jacinda Ardern will go down in history as the Prime Minster who created more child poverty in NZ than any other in history.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  28th May 2020

        New Zealand has 1.1 million children below the age of 18, meaning an increase of 20 per cent living in intermittent poverty could equate to 220,000 children.

        Becroft’s estimate was based on reports from non-governmental organisations (NGOs), his office’s own survey of school children, and public statistics, such as the surge in people seeking an unemployment benefit. He would like to see official statistics produced sooner.

        He said he would be meeting with the Government, and was pushing for the in-work tax credit to be expanded to all families with children, even those unemployed, giving them an extra $72 a week, which he said would cost about $500 million a year.

        Do those stats break down the circumstances of the kids living in poverty?

        Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said it was too early to know the affect of Covid-19 on household incomes, and child poverty.”

        It’s your key porfolio, PM. Your declared signature reason for being in politics. Supposedly your priority. Get onto it!

        “It’s very hard to get a real time sense, but we can assume, we know, that when we go into times of economic stress, when we see increasing unemployment, it is children that do suffer and bear the burden of that.”

        The Government had already adjusted the threshold for which families could receive the in-work tax credit, which would make a “massive difference”, she said.

        The Government has worked to quickly legislate an “income relief” payment scheme this week, which will pay $490 a week to people who lost or lose their job due to Covid-19 — a rate double that of the standard jobseeker benefit.

        National Party child poverty spokesman Alfred Ngaro said the Government needed to create employment opportunities for families living in poverty, before looking to more innovative and targetted ways of solving the problem.

        “We’re on a track where, we might put a whole lot of resource and a whole lot of funding just on improving income – so increasing benefits, yep, in the short term that will give some welcome relief – but in the long term, have we really made a difference?”

        He said the Whānau Ora funding model, which has independent commissioning agencies allocate funding to Māori health providers, had been effective but the Government had moved away from exploring such innovation.

        And he agreed more data was needed, sooner.

        “We know that there’s an increase [in poverty], but at the moment we can’t just go off rough sketches we’ve got to have that data,” Ngaro said
        … … … …

        I liked the Whanau Ora concept of targeting government-funded services & assistance most directly at those specific individuals who were most in need of fixing their dysfuctional lives & helping them to help themselves, so they could break out of their cycles of poverty & poor social outcomes for themselves & their kids.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  28th May 2020

          It’s not poverty that is the problem. It’s totally fucked up parents and whanau. More money will just buy more drugs and booze and violence.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  28th May 2020

            I know, but we don’t know exactly how many such cases exist, and how many are in dire straits but those are not the specific causes. Bill English was wanting to use Whanau Ora as the means for targeting the kinds of families you are speaking of. Which made sense to me. Intergenerational welfare dependency caused by those factors was to be tackled with a whole of government approach.

            Whether all the services required were actually there abd funded may have been another matter entirely, but that seems to me to be a better way of trying to help than just increasing benefit amounts & payments.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  28th May 2020

              I can’t see how funding bureaucrats and professionals will do anything but increase their empires as it already has. Neither they nor their clients have any incentive to change the situation.

      • That’s odd. According to her, the ‘covid crisis’ has made many things bedder, including child poviddy and the housing crisis.

        Reply
        • That was meant to answer Pink, but you and Gezza must have answered as I did.

          The idea of leaving children with the whanau sounds good in theory but assumes that the whanau will be able to cope with these disturbed children.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  28th May 2020

            The ones who were coping are soon overwhelmed by the flood of wreckage from the rest. It never stops.

            Reply
  12. Alan Wilkinson

     /  28th May 2020

    I wish we had judges like this:

    (Note: The following is an excerpt from Judge McHaney’s recent ruling in the case of Mainer vs. Pritzker, a lawsuit brought by an Illinois small business owner against the Governor’s stay-at-home order.)

    Since the inception of this insanity, the following regulations, rules or consequences have occurred:

    I won’t get COVID if I get an abortion but I will get COVID if I get a colonoscopy.

    Selling pot is essential but selling goods and services at a family- owned business is not. Pot wasn’t even legal and pot dispensaries didn’t even exist in this state until five months ago and, in that five months, they have become essential but a family-owned business in existence for five generations is not.

    A family of six can pile in their car and drive to Carlyle Lake without contracting COVID but, if they all get in the same boat, they will.

    We are told that kids rarely contract the virus and sunlight kills it, but summer youth programs, sports programs are cancelled.

    Four people can drive to the golf course and not get COVID but, if they play in a foursome, they will.

    If I go to Walmart, I won’t get COVID but, if I go to church, I will.

    Murderers are released from custody while small business owners are threatened with arrest if they have the audacity to attempt to feed their families.

    These are just a few of examples of rules, regulations and consequences that are arbitrary, capricious, and completely devoid of anything even remotely approaching common sense.

    State’s attorneys in this state, county sheriffs, mayors, city councils and county boards have openly and publicly defied these orders followed by threats to withhold funding and revocation of necessary licenses and certifications unless you obey.

    Our economy is shut down because of a flu virus with a 98 percent plus survival rate. Doctors and experts say different things weekly. The defendant cites models in his opposition. The only thing experts will agree on is that all models are wrong and some are useful. The Centers for Disease Control now says the virus is not easily spread on surfaces.

    The defendant in this case orders you to stay home and pronounces that, if you leave the state, you are putting people in danger, but his family members traveled to Florida and Wisconsin because he deems such travel essential. One initial rationale why the rules don’t apply to him is that his family farm had animals that needed fed. Try selling that argument to farmers who have had to slaughter their herds because of disruption in the supply chain.

    When laws do not apply to those who make them, people are not being governed, they are being ruled.

    Make no mistake, these executive orders are not laws. They are royal decrees. Illinois citizens are not being governed, they are being ruled. The last time I checked Illinois citizens are also Americans and Americans don’t get ruled.

    The last time a monarch tried to rule Americans, a shot was fired that was heard around the world. That day led to the birth of a nation consensually governed based upon a document which ensures that on this day in this, any American courtroom tyrannical despotism will always lose and liberty, freedom and the constitution will always win.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  28th May 2020

      Precisely. As I said, lockdowns were just social distancing and quarantine with added b.s. The added b.s. was never necessary or of any benefit but had huge costs.

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  29th May 2020

        Yip lets compare to very similar country’s one with lock down and one without
        opps
        Norway had the same number of infections when they went into lockdown as Sweden who did not,
        Lockdown started march 14 in Norway with 1040 cases. Sweden kept social distancing and quarantine guidelines only with 948 .
        The result .
        Norway has successfully reduce the infection rate .
        Sweden has not and has continued to rise up the rankings .
        Now Norway 8040 cases 235 deaths Sweden 35,000 cases 4220 deaths.
        https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
        This difference will be ongoing and even more extreme once the epidemic is fully resolved.
        The difference in economic effects will be minimal they will both be impacted by the worldwide economic contraction .

        Reply

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