Open Forum Sunday

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100 Comments

  1. Patzcuaro

     /  7th June 2020

    China getting a a bit of revenge.

    Reply
    • David

       /  7th June 2020

      Given they have just unleashed a respiratory virus that has killed 100s of thousands its a bit ironic.
      I understand the Chinese coppers and justice system is probably not fantastic either.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  7th June 2020

        No. But Xi & Putin & (Sergey Lavrov, his foreign minister) & their UN ambassadors will be loving this. They’ve got scene after scene of US cops all over America beating up & arresting unarmed protestors & demonstrators.

        Things their police & security forces do & get chastised for by America.

        This is perfect ammunition for their responses when that happens again.

        Reply
      • duperez

         /  7th June 2020

        ‘They have just unleashed,’ said with the authority of someone who knows with certainty that ‘they’ have engaged in a deliberate biological attack.

        I would observe that the coppers and justice systems in many places are ‘fantastic’ as in the old definition, about being made up and imagined, not real because people wouldn’t let it happen. The Chinese system is obviously unique. It is ‘not fantastic’ in unique ways. The same as our system or the systems in North America.

        Reply
        • David

           /  7th June 2020

          Geez take a joke, its Sunday have a day off. The second paragraph is completely unintelligible.

          China stuffed up and it escaped from the lab, by accident.

          Reply
    • Corky

       /  7th June 2020

      I see some of the replies to that tweet put things in perspective. Even with all the unrest in America, I don’t think they are at the ‘organ harvesting’ phase yet?

      Reply
  2. Patzcuaro

     /  7th June 2020

    Back when antifa was mainstream.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th June 2020

      If Black Lives Matter why do they kill each other so much?

      Reply
      • artcroft

         /  7th June 2020

        You win Alan. From now on they don’t matter.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  7th June 2020

          There might be some middle ground where all lives matter and racism is not the “go to” answer for all problems – in a better world.

          Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  7th June 2020

        Are you suggesting that white people don’t kill each other? The recent examples would include the breakup of Yugoslavia and Northern Ireland.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  7th June 2020

          I understand black Americans kill each other much more than other Americans do. Do you?

          And so racial prejudice is not the principal cause?

          So though accusations of racism are politically powerful they are mostly misrepresentations if not outright lies.

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  7th June 2020

          Are you suggesting that black people are racist against black people because of white people? That’s clearly what you are saying. There are recent examples of this.

          Reply
    • Pink David

       /  7th June 2020

      Gold medal gaslighting.

      Reply
  3. Corky

     /  7th June 2020

    Police officers charged for what? No wonder fellow officers from the same unit have resigned. When your bosses get caught up in emotionalism, and covering their backsides, then what’s the use of putting yourselves in harms way?

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1268732101634867200

    Reply
    • Charged for assault, they shoved an old man to the ground with a baton held sideways and an open palm and left him bleeding and unconscious.

      75 might not seem old to you, but it is to most people, and he was not threatening them in any way.This is brutality, not emotionalism. If he dies, they have killed him. He was unarmed, he seemed to be reasoning with them, and for that he was pushed backwards by two thugs half his age, probably, and left lying on the concrete pavement.

      It’s on video, there is no mistake. The thug on the right shoved him with a baton, the one on the left with an open hand, he staggered backwards and fell. His attackers then marched on.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  7th June 2020

        Seems to go completely unnoted by the media that this victim of police “racism” is white. Truly they have gone raving nuts.

        Reply
        • Well, it was obvious so didn’t need to be stated. It would have been stating the obvious that the man was white as the incident was filmed. No one has suggested that it was anything other than brutality towards an unarmed, unaggressive elderly man as far as I know.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  7th June 2020

            BS…the protester instigated this event. If the protester had be out of the way and police broke ranks;confronted him and pushed him, that would be assault. Learn to use your eyes..and engage your brain. No wonder so many officers have resigned their post in this unit. With bosses who think like you, it’s best to get out of policing.

            Reply
            • He didn’t instigate it at all. He is an old man, they didn’t give him time to get out of the way before they shoved him backwards, making him fall to the ground with horrible, life-threatening injuries. They then left this old man lying there bleeding and, for all they knew or cared, dying. They were stupid enough to do it on camera and leave a record of their thuggery.

              They attacked and assaulted an unarmed, helpless old person and walked away. They have been charged with assault, which should be a hint even to you. They have been stood down. Surely even you can work out the connection here. Watch the video, He wasn’t given a chance. If he dies, his death will be at least manslaughter.

              If the other policemen think like you, the force is better without these sadistic thugs.

            • Corky

               /  7th June 2020

              Both have pleaded not guilty and are supported by many police. If common senses prevails and judgement isn’t clouded by illogical blind emotionalism similar to your rhetoric..these officers will be found not guilty.

        • Patzcuaro

           /  7th June 2020

          I agree the police have gone nuts. The optics of the incident don’t look good.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  7th June 2020

          You’re missing the point that these demonstrations & protests have gone beyond BLM & although blacks & whites do still bring that up the protests for some days have also now been about US police brutality, poor attitudes towards the citizenry in general, & general inviolability & us vs them culture until there’s another flash point.

          Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  7th June 2020

    PG , you have a few posters here who love watching police giving people the bash or push, i would love to see what goes on in their minds, during a day

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th June 2020

      On the other hand, Lurch, they might be people who hate violence but can see that false claims of racism are creating more rather than less.

      Reply
      • There’s one poster who seems to love seeing violence and applauds it.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  7th June 2020

          Not quite right in the head, imo.

          Reply
          • One must wonder about that.

            Reply
            • I hate seeing violence either on screen or in reality. Seeing a stabbing in reality was nauseating and terrifying even though I was inside the house and looked out to see what all the racket was in the street. The odd thing was that it was a quiet suburban street and the people were not local.

    • Corky

       /  7th June 2020

      ”I would love to see what goes on in their minds, during a day.”

      Lurchy, we all ask ourselves the same questions. I would add..and during the night.😃

      Reply
  5. Patzcuaro

     /  7th June 2020

    The latest selfie opportunity.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th June 2020

      As I noted yesterday, another posturing picnic for Lefties. It’s election year of course. Trump postures, Lefties posture even more furiously. The world shakes its head.

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  7th June 2020

        The world certainly is shaking its head over the reputational decline of the US under Trumps Presidency.

        The NFL is now backing Black Lives Matter admitting the got it wrong a couple of years ago. Kaepernick lost that battle but looks the war will be won.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  7th June 2020

          Successful posturing or actually achieving anything?

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  7th June 2020

          ” the war will be won.”

          Care to tell us what this looks like?

          What is the actual change? Mostly it seems the momentum is behind ‘defunding’ police across various cities.

          What other specific changes do you believe need to be made?

          Reply
          • Patzcuaro

             /  7th June 2020

            I’m a little bemuse by the drive to defund the police budgets, it seems they need more money to pay higher wages and attract better people. It looks like they are scraping the bottom of the barrel at the moment.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  7th June 2020

              What should they do? What is the change?

              At the moment Police depts in the areas with large black populations are on the road to having far less money.

              Will this make black lives better, or worse?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  7th June 2020

              Of course it will result in more Black Lives Not Mattering to other Blacks. But white liberals will be happy they made a difference. (Because they are idiots.)

            • David

               /  7th June 2020

              Do you ever think about this happening in a Democrat state with a Democrat governor and a Democrat Mayor and they have been in charge there for 50 years now and they get a complete pass.
              Would the protests be more effective if they happened at the Democrat governors place given he is the one in charge of the police. He is probably delighted they are smashing up other Democrat run cities and blaming the fella in the white house.
              Its like us protesting about to our governor general about police behaviour and giving Nash a pass.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  7th June 2020

              @David, truly insane almost beyond belief – the Left and their media.

              That’s why I haven’t felt like commenting for the last few days. What is the point of rational thinking in a mad house? Best stay out and wait for the lunatics to kill each other.

            • Pink David

               /  7th June 2020

              “truly insane almost beyond belief – the Left and their media.”

              It’s only insane if you believe the goal is to make black lives better.

              Once you understand this is about nothing more than power, it[s not insane.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  7th June 2020

              @Alan I thought you were refraining from commenting because the police action was undefendable.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  7th June 2020

              @David, I’ve heard this agreement before, it is all happening in Democratic run cities & states. Where are the Republicans, the great saviours, in these states? The voters must regard them as worse that useless especially if they haven’t been elected for 50 years.

            • Pink David

               /  7th June 2020

              Good question. They are happy enough letting the Democrats do this.

              This is what these people are voting for.

            • Pink David

               /  7th June 2020

              The mayor of Minneapolis again.

            • Duker

               /  7th June 2020

              Republican governors of Minnesota
              2003-2011
              1999-2003 Independent Jesse Ventura
              1991-1999

              So from 1991- 2011 non democrat was Governor thats 20 years
              as for Mayor of Minneapolis was Democrat since 1978

              However they type of government they have the Mayor is much more like Auckland with little executive power for Mayor. he cant hire fire the Police Chief etc like Mayors can do in many councils that have the strong executive mayor system

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  7th June 2020

              @Patz, of course the killing was indefensible. A pity so much of the reaction also is. That was what I was hoping would be swept away eventually in a return to sanity. No sign of that happening yet.

        • Pink David

           /  7th June 2020

          Here is what BLM say they want.

          My summary, they want lots of money and apatite. A two state solution.

          End the war on black people.

          Reparations for past and continuing harms

          Divestment from the institutions that criminalize, cage and harm black people; and investment in the education, health and safety of black people.

          Economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure our communities have collective ownership, not merely access.

          Community control of the laws, institutions and policies that most impact us.

          Independent black political power and black self-determination in all areas of society.

          https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-lives-matter-releases-policy-agenda-n620966

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  7th June 2020

            Doesn’t matter what they say they want. This will soon enuf all blow over & nothing will really change. Police will still see themselves as a brotherhood (gang) against the rest of the population.

            Officers will still be paranoid with everyone because there’s plenty of vidoes in tv & the web showing, eg where a car stop for a broken taillight results in some maniac exiting their car actually shooting at the cop.

            It’s a mad country awash with guns.

            Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  7th June 2020

    Old white man arrested for assaulting child, they are ALWAYS old white baldheaded whities
    https://t.co/WRPaDS3b1B?amp=1

    Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  7th June 2020

    Says it all – Madeline Grant in the Telegraph:

    t began with jeans and washing machines. Then came Elvis, Little Richard and Chuck Berry. Eventually the quality of transatlantic cultural imports began to decline. Americanisms like “Stay Home” entered the lexicon, and the censorious excesses of US campus culture flooded Britain’s universities, before seeping into wider society. Recent events show how far the termites of the US culture war have burrowed into Britain. The wave of outrage sparked by George Floyd’s appalling killing by Minnesota police soon spiralled into looting and vandalism. In Britain, as in America, stir-crazy youngsters took to the streets in protests organised by the Black Lives Matter movement. Though many in London attended in peaceful solidarity, for a sizable minority this was merely an excuse for violence.

    One clip from the aftermath revealed the best and worst of today’s youth. A group of teenage girls heckle young Household Cavalry troopers as they scrub graffiti off a Whitehall war memorial; responsible cadets versus badly brought-up Lily Allen wannabes. They film the exchange as if the cadets were the aggressors, shamelessly mimicking genuine victims of US police violence who often document their encounters with law enforcement for self-protection. Aside from the lack of self-awareness, it shows how they are channelling US ‘social justice warriors’, using viral videos to shame and threaten opponents.

    Meanwhile, social media descended into spasms of white guilt. Well-heeled friends pledged bail money for detained protesters, showing little comparable sympathy for the lives and livelihoods destroyed in the carnage. Their attempts to justify opportunistic looting as the “voice of the unheard” suggest the soft bigotry of low expectations. Many claimed a false equivalence between US and UK law enforcement. The irony of chanting “hands up don’t shoot” at unarmed bobbies was certainly lost on the marchers.

    A more insidious stifling of intellectual freedom has accompanied overt imports of US culture war politics. The New York Times is in a state of internal uproar following the publication of a provocative comment article by Republican senator Tom Cotton, calling for the army to help quell the protests. Staffers threatened to walk out, with some demanding future op-eds be approved by members of ‘marginalised’ groups. Within days the NYT had capitulated. Similar battles are raging in Britain; last year hundreds of Guardian employees condemned a column by Suzanne Moore critical of transgender orthodoxy.

    NYT staffer Bari Weiss attributes such dynamics to a broader clash between old-school liberalism and a younger generation animated by “safetyism”, a belief that “the right to feel emotionally and psychologically safe trumps… core liberal values, like free speech.” I don’t entirely agree; ‘safetyists’ are often keen totalitarians who feign victimhood to give their bullying the veneer of humanity. But niche critical theory and campus-style intolerance of dissent have gone mainstream, infiltrating respected organisations and causing sensible people to say stupid things. Even pandemic science has succumbed; last week 1,200 US public health officials shelved their lockdown caution to sign a petition endorsing the protests. “The risks of not protesting to demand an end to systemic racism greatly exceed the harms of the virus,” one explained.

    Irrationality, mutual incomprehension, violence – all suggest a deep sickness in America’s body politic. It is, apparently, no longer enough to view George Floyd’s murder as a shocking injustice that deserves protest and swift punishment, or to condemn the brutality of US cops and the often-corrupt unions which protect them. Contrite liberals must also cheer vandalism, confess their ‘white privilege’ on bended knee, preferably with an Instagram photo attached. This is part vanity, part original sin, and it empowers no one. Any view of society which blames any differing outcome on discrimination will hinder necessary conversations and neglect important nuances, such as how culture informs social inequality. In any case, our own imperial history is far more complex than this clumsy US template and merits its own conversation.

    The American landscape is bleak. Woke remedies like “abolish the police” may not win elections but the uncompromising mindset that creates them threatens to destroy intellectual inquiry and once open-minded institutions. We now have a choice. Commit to truth and reasoned debate, or forfeit universal values like justice, fairness and individual freedom.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  7th June 2020

      Good article.

      “Woke remedies like “abolish the police” may not win elections but the uncompromising mindset that creates them threatens to destroy intellectual inquiry and once open-minded institutions. We now have a choice. Commit to truth and reasoned debate, or forfeit universal values like justice, fairness and individual freedom.”

      Politicians have probably always been the same. What has changed is their actions and what they say is captured in dramatically different ways.

      The ‘uncompromising mindset which threatens to destroy intellectual inquiry and once open-minded institutions and commit to truth and reasoned debate’? That horse has well and truly bolted. It sounds noble and encapsulates higher and better aspirations but it’s just words and notions to be flushed down the dunny of human nature.

      Such a view might be labelled as supreme cynicism. After constantly witnessing what should be extreme and seeing it endlessly, profound becomes normal, becomes nothing. If truth is to be committed to, commit to that truth.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  7th June 2020

      Yep, that’s a great article that fits pefectly with my perception of what’s going on. And she just focuses on the obvious & sees no need to bugger it all up with irrelevant & often incorrect labels like loony lefties.

      Reply
  8. Pink David

     /  7th June 2020

    Minneapolis

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th June 2020

      Black Livelihoods and Neighbourhoods don’t matter either.

      Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  7th June 2020

      Here is real war damage and I’m not suggesting that the US did this, it just an example of real war damage.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  7th June 2020

        Your point is it is not as bad as Syria?

        I will keep asking you what you want out of this. You support it. How are people’s lives made better by burning and looting?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  7th June 2020

          They won’t be. It’s just collateral damage. Always happens. Nothing changes.

          Reply
  9. Pink David

     /  7th June 2020

    Does anyone remember that Covid thing?

    Reply
  10. lurcher1948

     /  7th June 2020

    When you think rightwingers(haters of PM Jacinda Ardern) are just scum they manage to go further down the toilet bowl, this is the latest from the National party dirty tricks brigade, Mr Muller try to get the troops to be MORE HONEST,it will be hard
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/photo-of-jacinda-ardern-tumour-survivor-misused-on-twitter-to-slander-pm-for-failing-to-stick-to-social-distancing-rules.html

    Reply
    • It’s not from the National Party at all. That is completely misleading.

      Reply
      • He doesn’t even seem to be a member. There’s nothing there to connect him with the National Party except that he was once a financial advisor to a donor. To say that it’s the National Party who did it is scurrilous and inaccurate.

        Reply
  11. Patzcuaro

     /  7th June 2020

    1st amendment meets 2nd amendment

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  7th June 2020

      The protesters had their say, and no violence was involved. The houses they are standing in front of remain un-burned-down.

      Amazing.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  7th June 2020

        Where is that?

        And where were there demonstrators burning down houses?

        Reply
        • They have done, one man was distraught because the house he was building wasn’t insured because it couldn’t be, not being finished. He was black, as it happened. But someone has begun the equivalent of Give a Little which has raised a lot of money ($200,000+ when I looked)

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  7th June 2020

          “And where were there demonstrators burning down houses?”

          Your kidding right? The very first night an entire low cost house complex was burned to the ground.

          Not much happening in the suburbs, part because of the above.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  7th June 2020

            All I can find is one apartment complex under construction in Minnesota.
            Not aware of any occupied houses anywhere deliberately burned down in the riots.

            Those threatening suburban arms toting gun nuts might be conning you that they’re making sure their houses don’t get burned down, but look at their faces in the version where they’re not blanked out.

            That’s hate & loathing, imo. Republicans I bet.

            Reply
  12. 80,000 unemployed predicted in the Second Wave thanks to our Dear Leader and her draconian lockdown. Once the wage support runs out, it will be appalling. It’s a terrifying prospect.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  7th June 2020

      Do you think economist Brad Olsen will be as accurate with his predictions as you were with yours about the people committing suicide in the lockdown?

      Reply
  13. Gezza

     /  7th June 2020

    A look at the ever-increasing polarisation of population & politics in the US overcthe last 60 years.

    https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/06/02/the-violence-in-american-cities-reflects-the-fury-of-polarisation

    My nephew living in Maryland says there really aren’t any appreciable numbers of swing voters in the US. Everywhere you’re either a Republican or a Democrat & that’s. That ‘s why they both go hell for leather trying get their own people out to vote -or in some states still do everything they can to prevent any poor folk they can from voting.

    Reply

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