Open Forum Thursday

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49 Comments

  1. David

     /  11th June 2020

    Has anyone seen Muller ? Either the media are deliberately not giving him any oxygen because he is arguably one of the most boring people on earth. Or he has nothing of interest to say except on how he wants to give truckloads of cash to business, which is popular with no one.
    If he is keeping his powder dry until the campaign proper its all over, folk make up their minds typically 3 months out barring some curve ball upending proceedings.
    Nikki or Judith should have been promoted, it needed shock and awe not something run by a middle management.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  11th June 2020

      Probably a little of both. He’s definitely not the RIGHT man for the job he has.

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  11th June 2020

      Muller ?
      hes had some small moles removed so is home ‘resting’ as its a recess for parliament too.
      More like hes fitting in some high level media training from Ralston and his wife Janet Wilson who do (almost) all the training for Nats
      Wilson will be going to Wellington as well his chief press secretary, but Im sure her main role will be ‘image’

      Reply
  2. Corky

     /  11th June 2020

    Confirmation. National are a bunch of wasters who care little for innocent crime victims.
    They should join with Labour. At least when they spout inanities, it will be understandable.

    ”RNZ understands some National MPs were uncomfortable with the proposal at the time, fearing it could unfairly target Māori.”

    Yeah…I wonder why you gormless wonders.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/national-backtracks-on-strike-force-raptor-police-unit-plans.html

    Meanwhile, this chap is becoming the new RIGHT.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/bunch-of-baboons-m-ori-council-boss-matthew-tutaki-fires-up-at-mps-over-iwi-checkpoints.html

    And in Labour land.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/corrections-minister-kelvin-davis-and-police-minister-stuart-nash-disagree-over-claims-of-systemic-police-racism.html

    Summation: There is no one on the political scene who is prepared to stand up and call bs on
    the present crime and policing situation in New Zealand.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  11th June 2020

      I love how some see the big tough, determined, macho way is the way to go. Hit ’em high, hit ’em low, hit ’em anyone way you can.

      The tough Bridges replay was on this morning about how he was going to ‘harass gangs every single day’ he was prime minister.

      Apparently if we don’t support jackboots in the street with draconian laws and ruthless implementation of them we support crime and are huggers of criminals.

      Funny thing is some who chant those sorts of songs were crying for their mummies a few weeks back when the government made some rules around covid-19. Ardern was worse than Mao Tse Tung and Stalin combined. Brave souls did not like the ruthless, relentless, barbarous, appalling dictatorial stuff happening to them.

      But anyone who’s possibly broken the law? Yeah, bring on ruthless, relentless, barbarous, appalling and dictatorial. Well some of them, not the ones in suits and offices.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  11th June 2020

        ”I love how some see the big tough, determined, macho way is the way to go. Hit ’em high, hit ’em low, hit ’em anyone way you can.”

        Wrong. Please don’t deflect or try to set a false simplistic narrative.

        ”Apparently if we don’t support jackboots in the street with draconian laws and ruthless implementation of them we support crime and are huggers of criminals.”

        See above reply.

        ”Funny thing is some who chant those sorts of songs were crying for their mummies a few weeks back when the government made some rules around covid-19. Ardern was worse than Mao Tse Tung and Stalin combined. Brave souls did not like the ruthless, relentless, barbarous, appalling dictatorial stuff happening to them.”

        Nothing to do with this debate.

        ”But anyone who’s possibly broken the law? Yeah, bring on ruthless, relentless, barbarous, appalling and dictatorial. Well some of them, not the ones in suits and offices.”

        Simplistic nonsense..with the typical liberal overtones about white collar crooks. The great liberal deflection. Under any reasonable government white collar crooks would do hard time in GP.

        Here’s a reminder of what sentences cold blooded killers used to receive in Aotearoa. Compare that to what criminals receive in America for murder. Thank god for SST.

        https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-christchurch/cold-case-murder-angela-blackmoore-killer-sentenced-life-prison

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  11th June 2020

          Strike Force Raptor too is for the dustbin of history , along with Bridges.
          And the minimum period came in under Clark in 2002 -Sentencing Act 2002,not the SST -their achievement was only the 3 strikes, not the long sentences

          Subpart 4—Sentencing for murder
          S104 Imposition of minimum period of imprisonment of 17 years or more

          http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0009/latest/DLM136802.html

          Reply
          • The 3 Strikes was an ACT initiative, as I remember it.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  11th June 2020

              Yes. Garrett and SST were behind it.
              Act gets ‘taken over’ by these little lobby groups reguraly to give them some real policies.
              After that one it was Charter Schools which really never had widespread public push to introduce them for low achieving students -not ACT voters
              Now its the Gun lobby calling the shots with Act…..hahaha

            • Corky

               /  11th June 2020

              My friend, don’t laugh too soon. According to David Farrar on Sean’s programme, race base preference in the health system has split Labour.
              The country is also against this bs by a large margin, except in a few areas…but even they are a rough 50/50 split. David also floated the consequences of the Greens and Winston not getting into power again.
              National knows the feeling only too well of being pipped at the post.

            • Duker

               /  11th June 2020

              Farrar talking up empty issues that suit him. These polls are taken on his website readers and mean nothing and are ‘push polls’ designed to get the answer he wants
              How come his polls arent being shared with National Mps since Muller took over ?

            • duperez

               /  11th June 2020

              Pipped at the post reminds me on an expression mum occasionally used.
              She’d say someone ‘had the pip.’

              I guess that means being pipped at the post could explain one of the longest having of a pip in NZ political history.

        • Corky

           /  11th June 2020

          I should have been clearer. The SST has applied pressure on all governments for longer sentences and the promotion of victims rights. Without them we would have a more degraded justice system.

          The trust was formed in 2001. The legislation you linked is dated 2002. Interesting.

          Wiki:

          The trust claimed to have been instrumental in getting major changes in the New Zealand justice system by gaining public and government support for changes including:

          1. Increase in the sentence for murder from 10 years to 17 years in late 2002.

          2. Bail reforms (2007) which reversed the onus for bail in cases of violent, sexual and drug offenders who then had to convince the court of their future good behaviour or bail would be declined. The trust claimed public safety would be increased as a result.

          3. A three strikes law (2010) which provided for progressively increased sentencing for repeat offenders within a category of 40 listed violent and sexual offences. The trust claimed increased public safety would result by removing high risk offenders off the streets for longer periods.

          The trust also began an on-line offender database in early 2002 in response to the refusal by government to undertake this task, in spite of repeated requests to do so.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  11th June 2020

            The Sentencing Act of 2002 originally 10 years non parole period , which was amended the following year to 17 years
            However Bell who committed the 3 murders at Panmure RSA in 2001 got 33 years NPP ( reduced on appeal to 30)
            So some big sentences were handed out before 2002/3
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dwane_Bell

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  11th June 2020

              Yes, but it wasn’t routine. The SST continued to apply pressure on politicians.

            • Duker

               /  11th June 2020

              Pressure ?
              Typical lobby group to claim success they had nothing to do with
              Timing is everything

    • I can’t think why Corky wants to influence (some hope) people to vote for National when he has such a low opinion of them.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  11th June 2020

        Its part of his political confusion and shows how his shifting allegiance is more to ‘opposing’ Labour Greens etc.
        Apart from his first love …law and order, which means NZ has ended up with nicer prison buildings than we have hospital buildings….

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  11th June 2020

        ”I can’t think why Corky wants to influence (some hope) people to vote for National when he has such a low opinion of them.”

        What are you talking about? Influence who?🤔

        ”Its part of his political confusion and shows how his shifting allegiance is more to ‘opposing’ Labour Greens etc.”

        What are you on about?🙄

        Reply
  3. Expecting equal justice and being against police brutality is NOT “being political”. It’s called basic empathy. I’m sorry if my opinions on these things are too radical for some of you. Go in peace.

    Also, Antifa is not breeding 75 year-old super-soldiers who fall faster than gravity…. And Trump is still a vile man.

    Reply
    • Don’t you believe that a 75 year old peace activist set up a situation that would make the police look like thugs after he provoked them by showing them a video on his phone, as he staggered backwards in a carefully choreographed act that would, to make it look worse, fracture his skull and lacerate his head ?

      Call me a cynic, but I don’t, either.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  11th June 2020

      Basic empathy?

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  11th June 2020

      The street doesn’t know empathy. If the woman officer had stood back, pulled a gun, she would have had complete control of the situation. But ..but… she doesn’t have a gun.
      What if the incident attracted more spectators? Both these cops could have been killed.
      And people wonder why I have a problem with our cops not being armed.

      Baton anyone?

      Reply
  4. Patzcuaro

     /  11th June 2020

    Trump’s campaign has a hissy fit about CNN’s latest poll which puts Biden ahead by 14. Must be a fake poll, mind you Trumpland is an alternative reality.
    The Hill/HarrisX out on the same day had Biden up by 10 and The Economist/You Gov a day later Biden by 8.
    Trumps job approval tanking at RealClearPolitics, in the real world.

    Reply
    • CNN’s response – in part:

      “To the extent we have received legal threats from political leaders in the past, they have typically come from countries like Venezuela or other regimes where there is little or no respect for a free and independent media.”

      Reply
  5. This would be hilarious pay-back for Floridians who support Trump – if it weren’t so underhanded.

    Trump’s Department of the Interior is drafting a plan that will expand oil drilling near the Florida coasts — after the November election. Black crude oil on white sandy beaches …

    First he draws you in. Then he screws you over. Everything Trump touches dies.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/interior-drilling-florida-waters-november-election-310595

    Reply
    • The Sadim Touch. (I have just coined that neologism, but feel free to use it; the Midas Touch in reverse)

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  11th June 2020

      It’s good enough for the people of New Plymouth. Not sure why people in Florida would have any issue with it.

      Trinidad and Tobago is a significant oil producer, all in shallow water near pristine beaches.

      Not sure what they problem is.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  11th June 2020

        New Plymouth isnt the tourist mecca for the coastal waters that Florida along the Gulf of mexico is. Its huge
        They have seen what happens off the coast of Texas , where you can see the distant drilling platforms from the waters edge and also the big balls of tar on the beaches

        Can you see any oil platform from New Plymouths beaches

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  12th June 2020

          Oil platforms are awesome. Seeing them from the beach will increase tourism.

          Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  11th June 2020

      And the lucky Floridians are in line to get the Republican Convention possibly in Jacksonville after Trump balked at COVID-19 restrictions the North Carolina Governor is proposing.

      Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  11th June 2020

    Wow Sean Plunkett from Magic Radio, is full on with the saying woke, snowflake, virtue signalling liberals, etc, Plunkett reminds me of an old white man, wearing a cap on
    backwards, and saying bro to everyone….but then his audience is old white rightwingers who idolise the party of one, ACT and David Seymour

    Reply
  7. Pink David

     /  11th June 2020

    Great to see the ‘defund the Police’ experiment being run in real time. We can collect the data and evaluate it’s success.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  11th June 2020

      Dont the right wingers do the same in inland areas where they want to take over federal land ?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
      “The 2014 Bundy standoff was an armed confrontation between supporters of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy and law enforcement following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM) obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in withheld grazing fees for Bundy’s use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy’s ranch in southeastern Nevada.”

      “On the morning of April 12, an armed crowd rallied under a banner that read “Liberty Freedom For God We Stand”. Most had signs, many of which chided “government thugs”. Addressing the protesters, Bundy said, “We definitely don’t recognize [the BLM director’s] jurisdiction or authority, his arresting power or policing power in any way” and “We’re about ready to take the country over with force!”

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  11th June 2020

        It was on Tucker Carlson’s alternative reality. Then you have far right occupying the Michigan State Capital Building with their long guns.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  11th June 2020

          How many crimes did they commit?

          Just for the record, I’m fine with this. I’m all for experimentation. My hypothesis is this will result in a ton of murder and robbery and it’s be tested before to exactly this outcome, but if you really want to try it’s good it’s being done somewhere at arms length.

          Reply
      • Pink David

         /  11th June 2020

        The really fun thing is the first thing they did when claiming this new ‘state’, was to build a wall.

        Reply
  8. Patzcuaro

     /  11th June 2020

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  11th June 2020

      So, he might not be the kindly old nutter so forcefully attacked by the police people like you are making him out to be.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  11th June 2020

        And then again he might be be a kindly old nutter. The White House press secretary insinuates something and it becomes fact and is repeated all over the world.

        The press secretary is a professional propagandist and liar.

        Of course if there is justification for knocking a man in his 70s onto the sidewalk for very questionable tweets and walking away, who gets first shot at Trump? Or will that not happen because any candidates, well anyone standing on the sidewalk, will be teargassed and violently attacked ‘just in case’?

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  11th June 2020

          What clip haven’t you watched? This old chap instigated contact. If you don’t understand that because of ideological blindness, let me know and I will take you through the clip frame by frame…starting with Mr Innocent walking up to police.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  11th June 2020

            I’ll try to get over my ideological blindness.

            I’m surprised since you don’t suffer from that handicap you couldn’t see that my comments were about the press secretary’s words and attitude. If you want to take me through something frame by frame maybe you could do it about what I posted about.

            Take me through the bit about the White House press secretary thinking that if a man in his 70s “has some very questionable tweets,” there may be justification for knocking him onto the sidewalk and walking away.

            Take me through the bit about the White House press secretary demonising the man for “some very questionable tweets.”

            Take me through the “very questionable tweets.”

            Reply
    • Pink David

       /  11th June 2020

      Well, he suckered me. It was very well staged.

      Reply
  9. Corky

     /  11th June 2020

    Geez, just watched One News tonight. It seemed to be all about whining Maori.The director of Canterbury Museum has apologised to Maori for displays depicting Maori life. He’s working with Ngai Tahu to decide what will become of the displays once they are removed..and what new displays will be appropriate.😂😂😂

    Reply

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