Open Forum Wednesday

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86 Comments

  1. David

     /  17th June 2020

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/16/5-steroid-slashes-deaths-one-third-severe-coronavirus-patients/

    Good news. Dexamethasone is a bit of a breakthrough and its been proved through a proper trial for once, “Recovery”. Not a cure but for people on oxygen the odds look greatly improved.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  17th June 2020

      The odds are improved significantly rather than greatly. It will reduce deaths by a third so two thirds of the present fatalities will still die.

      Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  17th June 2020

    Mr Muller looked particularly sweaty and blotchy today on tv1 breakfast,also hes rather keen on sacking people like David Clark sounds like a National leader, already clutching at straws

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  17th June 2020

      Why would he be interested in sacking people like David Clark?

      There quite likely aren’t all that many like him. Maybe Twyford?

      Surely it would make more sense to just sack Clark himself? 😳

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  17th June 2020

        Ardern would have sacked him too….but Covid.

        Remember how Minister of Transport Brownlee was sacked after deliberately breaching airport security at an airport for his own convenience …thats right he wasnt
        “An unnamed airport source has told 3 News the plane’s pilot was informed of three unauthorised passengers but decided to fly anyway.
        The source says the plane should have been offloaded, but it wasn’t, and the airport departure lounge cleared, but it wasn’t.”
        And Key ?
        “Mr Key said he has spoken to Mr Brownlee and indicated he is “very disappointed” with the actions he took this morning. He has reflected on the significant contribution Mr Brownlee has made over time and decided, on balance, not to accept his resignation.”

        Very similar circumstances, blatant breach of simple rules that applied to everyone else.
        One was told the Covid epidemic only prevented being sacked, the other was …blather ..reasons
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/brownlee-offers-resignation-after-airport-security-breach-2014072414

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  17th June 2020

          Brownlee lost his Civil Aviation responsibilities while that offence was investigated & was eventually issued an infringement notice & fined $2,000 for it.

          He should have been sacked.

          How much was Clark fined?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  17th June 2020

            The difference was AT THE TIME
            ” He has reflected on the significant contribution Mr Brownlee has made over time and decided, on balance, not to accept his resignation.”
            When ordinary people breach airport security, the planes are stopped, and everyone is rechecked , and that didnt happen either, in itself another breach of rules, not too dissimilar to the failure to test the 2 woman before they left hotel

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  17th June 2020

              I’m not interested in your supporting excuses for Brownlee. He should have been sacked. He got numerous airport employees in the shit as well. He should also have been hauled off into a storeroom & given a kick in the arse by masked airport union officials for every employee who ended up getting hauled over the coals.

              Did Clark get even an official warning by the fuzz?

            • To be fair, we were told that we could go to local places for exercise and 2km is local; it’s about from my house to the chemist (at a guess)

              The 20km drive was different, but as we could go legally on local buses further than that, I can’t see that it’s a major crime.

              I am not a fan, but fair’s fair.

            • It would be idiotic for a minister to be replaced three months before an election. More trouble than it’s worth.

  3. David

     /  17th June 2020

    I am waiting for the stories to drip out about the total failure by our health ministry with these two women.
    No way they could drive Auckland to Wellington on one tank of gas especially as they were grieving and having flown around the world and been locked up for a week and a half I find it impossible to believe they nursed their vehicle down to Wellington. Its 700km for goodness sake.
    They managed to go the whole way without food, drinks, toilet stops, sure.
    Since June the 8th we have been told all in isolation are now tested, I am just speechless that we havent been already when they arrive and before they depart, they were only tested in Wellington and that will be because of the ongoing symptoms one of the ladies had from before she was allowed out isolation. We have more checks before we allow guys onto building sites.
    The health minister should be goneski and Bloomfield should be looking at alternative employment opportunities.

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  17th June 2020

      And Muller wants 1000s of students to come in next month,remember a war was lost due to the loss of a nail,

      Reply
      • A battle was lost, not a war…and all for the loss of a horseshoe nail.

        Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  17th June 2020

          Thats if you were on the losing side Kitty,AND YOU WERE,IM A WINNER

          Reply
          • I wasn’t around when battles were fought on horseback, even if you were. Long before my time !

            That verse is hundreds of years old, as far as I know.

            Reply
            • The original version was 14th century. The usual version is as follows.

              For the want of a nail, the shoe was lost.
              For the want of a shoe, the horse was lost.
              For the want of a horse, the rider was lost.
              For the want of a rider, the battle was lost.
              For the want of a battle, the kingdom was lost…
              And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

    • lurcher1948

       /  17th June 2020

      Wow in David’s world you would be out of a job if some pleb in Auckland stuffs up,how could you sleep at night worrying,in Lurchers world It would be be a training and learning experience for the thousands of overseas students, Muller wants in next month.

      Reply
      • Are you sure it’s thousands ?

        I would be astonished if he didn’t want them to be tested and quarantined. Unlike the current lot who are in charge, he’s not that irresponsible.

        Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  17th June 2020

    Reality in the Telegraph:

    New Zealand is no lockdown success story

    16 June 2020 • 2:00pm
    Ross Clark

    There is no greater pin-up in the fight against Covid 19 than Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand. The fact that two Brits appear to have spoiled her country’s 24 -day record without a new case of the disease has merely served to underline her reputation as the leader who, through timely and proportionate action, succeeded in limiting Covid-19’s toll in New Zealand to just 1504 cases and 22 deaths.

    No doubt it helps among her Left-wing British admirers that she once served as President of the International Union of Socialist Youth – she is everything that, as far as the liberal-left believe, our own cavalier, laissez-faire and inward-looking government is not.

    But it is absurd to compare the UK response to Covid-19 with that of New Zealand. A densely-populated country at the heart of international commerce was always going to be more deeply affected than a country out on a limb in the southern ocean, 1000 miles from any other landmass.

    If New Zealand was going to be devastated by an epidemic of anything it would be scrapie, not Covid 19 – even after a sharp reduction in recent years it still has 27 million sheep, nearly six for every man, woman and child. Its largest city, Auckland, has a population of just over 400,000, compared with London’s 9 million.

    New Zealand is a country of rural settlements of low-density suburbs where social-distancing come naturally – as opposed to Britain where huge numbers live in tightly-packed housing and commute on crowded tube trains.

    Moreover, when Covid-19 arrived in New Zealand it did so in the middle of summer, when viruses have the lowest chance of spreading.

    The University of Maryland mapped early outbreaks of the virus and found them concentrated in a belt of the northern hemisphere where average temperatures were in the range 5 to 11 Celsius – as Britain was throughout March.

    Ardern’s government has been credited with closing its borders – which it did on 19 March. Yet that is somewhat easier to do when you are self-sufficient in food and, thanks to your geography, have relatively little international traffic. New Zealand has 700 international flights landing at its airports a week – Britain has more than that in a day. In addition, we have trains and ferries arriving from other European countries constantly – a source of traffic with which New Zealand does not have. In particular, we had of a lot arrivals from Spain and Italy, where the virus was already well established.

    Far from being quicker to respond to coronavirus, New Zealand in fact locked down a day later than did Britain, on 25 March. Prior to that, like Britain, the country went through a week of partial, steadily increasing social distancing measures. Gatherings of more than 500 people were not banned until 12 March. Bars and restaurants did not close until 23 March, two days after Britain.

    Jacinda Ardern once served as an adviser to Tony Blair’s government. Had she stayed and become British Prime Minister we would have been through almost exactly the same experience as we have done. New Zealand has been lucky to escape the worst of the virus; it has not been led much differently from Britain.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  17th June 2020

      Moreover, when Covid-19 arrived in New Zealand it did so in the middle of summer, when viruses have the lowest chance of spreading.

      Shite oh dear they can not even get the fuckin seasons right and Alan laps it up .
      Summer in NZ is December to February. 28 of February NZ had its first case.

      New Zealand is a country of rural settlements of low-density suburbs where social-distancing come naturally

      87% of us live in the urban areas of our major city’s .
      NZ is a country of a few large reasonably dense city’s and vast uninhabitable wilderness.
      Three darker shades of green = less than one to less than 10 persons sqkm.
      Virtually no one lives in places like fiordland The Alps or the central north island because the land is simply to gnarly .

      Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  17th June 2020

    Poor old Todd Mullers,if you have a coup you have to hit the floor running and having a flag upside down,behind you and proudly saying you joined the labour party just says your reign might be short and bloody when you are overthrown
    https://thestandard.org.nz/todds-odd-distress-signal/

    Reply
  6. Patzcuaro

     /  17th June 2020

    Reply
  7. It appears that a couple of nasty far-right websites have been banned from Google ad services for promoting hatred, intolerance, violence or discrimination based on race

    One of those sites is regularly used by commenters on this blog to justify their far-right positions.

    “Google has banned two far-right websites from its advertising platform after research revealed the tech giant was profiting from articles pushing unsubstantiated claims about the Black Lives Matter protests.

    The two sites, ZeroHedge and The Federalist, will no longer be able to generate revenue from any advertisements served by Google Ads.

    A Google spokesperson said in an email that it took action after determining the websites violated its policies on content related to race.

    “We have strict publisher policies that govern the content ads can run on and explicitly prohibit derogatory content that promotes hatred, intolerance, violence or discrimination based on race from monetizing,” the spokesperson wrote. “When a page or site violates our policies, we take action. In this case, we’ve removed both sites’ ability to monetize with Google.”

    After publication of this story, Google added that it takes into account all of the content on a website including comments to determine if a policy violation has occurred, which is where the policy violations occurred.

    Google notified ZeroHedge of the policy violations last week and banned the website from its ad platform.

    Google notified The Federalist on Tuesday of policy violations. It now has three days to remove the violations before the ban goes into effect.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/google-bans-two-websites-its-ad-platform-over-protest-articles-n1231176

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th June 2020

      This is terrible. Google, I mean. One wonders who is trying harder to set the global narrative- Google or the UN?

      Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  17th June 2020

      And is it going to make a blind bit of difference?

      Nah. Google is impotent. Can threaten, can disbar, can demonitise, can delete from its search engine.

      The web sites will continue, revenue or not. Maybe the web sites will get advertising funding from Yandex? or even Baidu?

      Google is not the only show in town. Personally use DuckDuckGo and find their searches reach greater depths than the control freaks on Google allow.
      .
      Even their feeble efforts to control content on YouTube is a failure, All videos can be seen on BitChute plus many other channels.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  17th June 2020

      “It appears that a couple of nasty far-right websites have been banned from Google ad services for promoting hatred, intolerance, violence or discrimination based on race”

      Can we agree that the translation of ‘nasty far-right” in your mind is simply everyone you disagree with. You can of course dispute this and point for a right wing news source that you support and do not want to see silenced.

      I do wonder why do you not realise where this all leads.

      Phalaris was, after all, eliminated by his own creation.
      Robespierre tuned the weapon of his own demise.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  17th June 2020

      Here is the quote from Google;

      “The spokesperson said that Google has “strict publisher policies” that govern the use of Google Ads. The policies cover not just the content of news articles but comment sections on websites that use the ad platform.

      “The action taken against ZeroHedge and the notification to the Federalist was related to the comments section of the sites. The comments sections consistently violated our dangerous and derogatory policy,” the spokesperson said.”

      So it is the comment section. That’s going to set a very interesting precedent.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  17th June 2020

      Rather well pitched letter to Google being sent by Ted Cruz. Going to be a real hot potato for them. Effectively they have created a policy that commits any website that uses Google Ads either policing comments sections to Google’s expectation, or removing comment sections entirely. The largest offender is then YouTube. Owned by Google. LOL.

      Reply
  8. Pink David

     /  17th June 2020

    I wonder why events in France are not getting much airtime? It’s quite entertaining.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th June 2020

      Seems to be the usual suspects..meanwhile white liberals…

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  17th June 2020

        It’s Czechians vs North Africans. They make for a vibrant local community.

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  17th June 2020

      Reply
      • Je suis la tante de Charlot from Dijon; where the mustard comes from 😀

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  17th June 2020

        PD, they look impotent, confused.

        This cannot end well

        Reply
      • duperez

         /  17th June 2020

        Regularly on here the question is asked about MSM coverage of events somewhere in the world. The tone is of ‘why isn’t the MSM covering this, they should be, because they are not it’s a veritable cover up.’

        Are they supposed to cover all stories of all events everywhere? Do they have priorities? How are those worked out?

        On their list of considerations do they have whether there might be someone in New Zealand with a political perspective who wants to make a political point? A story not making headlines or the news here means that something sinister is going on?

        Selection of stories and the weight they are given are totally arbitrary. That ensures outlets have their individuality and independence.

        America apparently is the leader of the free world. They are seen as the model of how things should be done in many places, including New Zealand. No doubt the way our media works will follow their pattern

        Reply
  9. Corky

     /  17th June 2020

    Interesting korero on Peter Williams show. Callers and farmers were commenting on huge tracts of productive land being bought by companies( some from overseas) who then plant pine trees for the carbon credits. The trees aren’t pruned or thinned, leaving a huge risk of
    bush fires in years to come. One farmer said she would be better off planting her whole farm in trees – no ongoing costs, work or expenditure needed. The problem is there is no end product to sell. The trees would be of poor quality unless they where looked after. But according to commentators that’s not happening.

    In my area, some of the best horticultural soil in NZ is being wasted on housing developments. I’m wondering at what point the penny will drop for all involved?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  17th June 2020

      So where else should the houses be built & what are the pros vs cons of your preferred locations?

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  17th June 2020

      “In my area, some of the best horticultural soil in NZ is being wasted on housing developments. I’m wondering at what point the penny will drop for all involved?”

      Top dollar for horticultural land is something like $400k/hectare.
      Residential land is a multiple more.

      That tells you about the respective values.

      Reply
      • Corky’s area is a moveable feast, I think.

        Food above shelter is too simplistic for words.

        It’s absurd to think that housing isn’t needed; where does he expect people to live ? According to him, he owns a large amount of land; why doesn’t he subdivide ?

        Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  17th June 2020

      Corky, these wonderings of yours should be encouraged.

      Watch and weep…

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  17th June 2020

        You should have warned me.

        Bryan Bruce….about as neutral as 5th gear.

        Reply
  10. Pink David

     /  17th June 2020

    The statue of Colston removed in Bristol has now been replace with a new one. I’m sure this new one will end racismd for good.

    “A work of new work of art has appeared in Bristol by the plinth of the unceremoniously removed Colston statue, described as “Fantastic” by Caleb Sivyer [Academic researching gender theory, visual culture, women’s writing. Senior Lecturer at UWE Bristol].”

    https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/politics/bristols-class-bigotry/?fbclid=IwAR2R8FshFltED0uYXYQeye3RYWT5WqoWjl9yrUzrJc6kpjfPMpAvk779jbQ

    Reply
    • Racist, sexist, sizeist and hideous. Not to mention classist with the string vest.

      I have been to Bristol many times (but don’t remember the Colston statue) and this will do nothing for its image; poor Bristol.

      This is ghastly and an eyesore. I hope it’s removed very soon.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  17th June 2020

        The truth here is that it ‘offends’ the people who have the least say, while pandering to the bigotry of those in power. It will very likely stay.

        Reply
  11. Corky

     /  17th June 2020

    Hey, Duker…remember when you had me on about the gummint not mobilizing our military? I said…’let’s wait and see.’

    This measure shows the PM has lost confidence in the Health Ministry and protocols used for border controls.

    The PM should have mobilized long ago. She was too busy trying to be liberal and woke.
    Strangely enough….I now believe it’s ‘game on for the election.’ Pity about National’s leader.

    https://www.france24.com/en/20200617-new-zealand-military-to-oversee-borders-after-new-covid-19-cases

    Reply
    • It doesn’t say that armed soldiers will be patrolling the border, i.e. airports. This isn’t England during the IRA reign of terror. Don’t get all excited. You won’t be seeing soldiers with machineguns as I did when I first flew into Heathrow and they were standing on plinths, finger on trigger. This is NZ, we’re talking about a virus, not armed terrorists.

      Reply
  12. Corky

     /  17th June 2020

    White privilege bs explained.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  17th June 2020

      @4.50

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  17th June 2020

        My God, he’s been ranting for nearly two hours there, by the sound of it.

        Not his best effort. Rushes it. Wastes too much time setting up & then demolishing simplistic straw men.

        Jordy’s got too fond of the sound of his own voice by the time that was made. He used to be briefer & more focussed.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  17th June 2020

          I tried my best…hence@ 4.50. His disjointed speech pattern is annoying. That said, it’s a topic our media should be discussing.

          He is right though. It’s a refrain often thrown at me, basically: ”not all Maori are like that.” I unfortunately think that is a given…yet as these screaming Black Lives Matter
          freaks show..that simple ‘given’ isn’t a given with them and others.

          Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  17th June 2020

      It’s ok for blacks to call other blacks nigger, but not ok for whites to say it in any context. Bit like shootings.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  17th June 2020

        It’s ok for blacks to say “whitey” but never ok for whites to say “nigger”. How does that work?

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  17th June 2020

          It doesn’t. Say that to a black person and you get beaten. Of course that beating is excused because of white racism and privilege.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  17th June 2020

            Depends who is holding the gun.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  17th June 2020

              That makes things worse.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  17th June 2020

              Not really. Probably prevents any violence.

            • Corky

               /  17th June 2020

              But…once the police and social media arrive:

              ”Depends who is holding the gun.”

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  17th June 2020

              Once social media arrives the lunatics have free reign.

            • Gezza

               /  17th June 2020

              That’s been obvious ever since Trump discovered Twitter.

        • Gezza

           /  17th June 2020

          False equivalence there. You need to find out whether its ok for

          Whites to call blacks “blackie”
          Blacks to call whites “nigger”.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  17th June 2020

            No, it isn’t a false equivalence. Any insult depends on the degree of malevolence behind it. That depends entirely on the attitude and intent of the speaker. Without that, names and words are just noises.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  17th June 2020

              Wafflefluff.

              My correction stands.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  17th June 2020

              No, it’s nonsense. Explain why nigger is worse than whitey.

            • Gezza

               /  17th June 2020

              What’s wrong with “whitey”?

              If you want to know what’s wrong with nigger, call a few whiteys nigger. Report back.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  17th June 2020

              False test. I’d have to call them “whitey” as well and compare the reaction. And all the reactions would depend on the individuals, context and my delivery – just as one idiot was offended by a reading from a book. God help such stupidity.

            • Gezza

               /  17th June 2020

              Fine. Call a few whitey & a few others nigger. Report back.

              (No point calling the same whiteys both names; they’d think you were a nutter.)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  17th June 2020

              Pointless for reasons given. So you have no explanation.

            • Gezza

               /  17th June 2020

              The term nigger is now probably the most offensive word in English. Its degree of offensiveness has increased markedly in recent years, although it has been used in a derogatory manner since at least the Revolutionary War. The senses labeled Extremely Disparaging and Offensive represent meanings that are deeply insulting and are used when the speaker deliberately wishes to cause great offense. It is so profoundly offensive that a euphemism has developed for those occasions when the word itself must be discussed, as in court or in a newspaper editorial: “the n-word.”

              Despite this, the sense referring to a “black person” is sometimes used self-referentially among African Americans in a neutral or familiar way.

              The sense referring to other victims of prejudice, especially when used descriptively, as to denounce that prejudice, is not normally considered disparaging—as in “The Irish are the niggers of Europe” from Roddy Doyle’s The Commitments —but the other uses are considered contemptuous and hostile.

              So you have no explanation for what’s wrong with whitey?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  17th June 2020

              Obviously whitey refers to someone so depraved they would use the word nigger derogatively which is completely unspeakable – thus being the ultimate insult.

        • duperez

           /  17th June 2020

          Who knows how it works.

          A couple of years back the head of a girls’ school in the UK was no longer going to refer to the girls as girls because there could be some of her pupils who were confused abut their sexual identity. Referring to the girls as girls would create stress for those who considered they might be transgender. (I do understand that view.)

          On the supposed mathematical chance of their being transgender kids in the school (secondary) given the % of kids said to be in that situation in the UK, I reckoned there could have been two in that situation out of 400 or 600 whatever the roll was at the time.

          It seemed to me for the security of a couple of young people there were to be hundreds put in a situation of questioning their gender. They were having their ‘girlness’ taken off them so they Ould be parked in some in-between or maybe place. The comfort or confidence of just being yourself was not to be. Maybe the school had academic lessons about the issue so the pupils could come to terms with the situation as well their own place in the world. In other words make more of an issue of it.

          Of course being an up-market public schools with great heritage, they weren’t going to get rid of the word ‘girls’ out of St Mildred’s School for Girls. (made the school name up.)

          I guess at Lynfield College they’ll have someone going through the library covering the words which aren’t to be seen or read. There are bound to be some Shakespearean plays to be chucked on the fire with Big Ears and Noddy.

          https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/21/do-not-refer-female-pupils-girls-ladies-reminds-gender-head/

          Reply
  13. Gezza

     /  17th June 2020

    What in god’s name is this clown even in Parliament for?

    I left the telly on after watching Question 1 from Muller to Ardern today, & when I came back into the lounge after doing stuff elsewhere in the house I witnessed this performance. Nearly 3 years in Parliament now & still hasn’t got a farkin clue what the bloody rules are. Even Mallard gave up & shut the idiot down – twice – seeing he’s obviously incapable of learning.

    Reply

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