Open Forum Thursday

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you, or you think may interest others.. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts. Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts. Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few, first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria. If they pass muster they will be released as soon as possible (it can sometimes take hours).

Leave a comment

83 Comments

  1. David

     /  25th June 2020

    I have to say I was surprised when the government took its tourism fund and tipped my money into Waitomo Caves which surely is not going anywhere and if its quiet just scale down.
    Now some of NZs wealthiest men have managed to secure 10.2 million dollars of our money for their bungy operation. Now surely this is an asset that can be scaled right back and then geared up when the borders open. As a part owner of a hotel that is shut with money going out and none coming in I dont want any taxpayers money, its business it happens. This government is so bloody inept it has to be seen to be doing something and throwing money around is the only thing it knows how to do while it chases headlines and tries desperately to stop its tourism minister looking as stupid as its transport minister.
    Are there not some struggling families more deserving than cash for a business owner worth 140 million.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300041859/aj-hackett-payout-corporate-welfare-for-richlisters-economist-says

    Reply
    • David

       /  25th June 2020

      The loan scheme the government set up was a great scheme, interest free and 3 % after that with simple criteria and administered by the scary IRD. Why couldnt Labour offer AJ Hackett a loan at favourable terms, why couldnt they take an equity stake and then sell it when the borders open ?

      “The Government allocated $5.2 billion for its ‘small business cashflow loan scheme’ but has only paid out $1.4b in loans under the scheme so far.

      The scheme offers small businesses and sole traders zero or low interest loans that are intended to help tide them over through the coronavirus crisis.”

      Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  25th June 2020

      Fine efforts today,David,you must spend hours thinking them up,its sad money for jumping of bridges,but none for St Johns

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  25th June 2020

        St Johns may have to cull 100 jobs. Not good. If you come home and zoom up the driveway on your scooter; misjudge and hit the garage door, and wake up to find yourself flat on your back with your chompers hanging in the roses bushes…well, good luck.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  25th June 2020

          Dont understand why SJ are short of money
          Accident callouts are funded by ACC, if you need a checkup at home , they send you a bill but its a fraction of the cost as the government covers the lions share. Same goes if the medical emergency requires a trip to hospital.
          Lots of other non urgent and pre scheduled work is booked and paid for by DHB.

          What exactly is the funding problem? Dont they have private donations and reserves and trusts to call on for the lack of accident work while lockdown was in place ?

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  25th June 2020

            I’m not sure. I know from personal experience the bill we recieved from SJ was for $88. I would have thought that would’ve covered a reasonable amount of work they would do for most home calls.

            I’m wondering if they have a huge debt outstanding from folk who don’t pay their accounts? Given it would cost SJ about $300 per account to chase with debt collectors, they may just write that part of their running costs off the books.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  25th June 2020

              Those home calls are funded up to 80% or something by the government, other wise it would $600-900 per visit. Regular users and others can become members with something like $90 per year for a family and that covers the ‘user contribution’
              So swings and round abouts for those who dont pay. It would be mad to chase up a $70 debt that costs over $300.

    • Blazer

       /  25th June 2020

      No argument with your posts on this thread David and this….’… As a part owner of a hotel that is shut with money going out and none coming in I dont want any taxpayers money, its business it happens. ‘

      There are very few businessmen with scruples,with the courage of their Capitalist convictions.
      Absolute admiration for your principles.

      Reply
      • David

         /  25th June 2020

        I did agree with the whale watch money, 1.5 million, because of the impact that shutting would have on Kaikoura. Its kinda like a one horse town and it was a small amount albeit to quite a wealthy owner but the impact on locals would have been greater than the cost given the lack of other local opportunities for work.
        I am semi pure 🙂

        Reply
  2. Corky

     /  25th June 2020

    Mikey said there’s a political poll tonight. For me the poll will be more about National and the minor parties. If they can’t increase their support given the ineptitude of the government, they never will… or, maybe people are so fearful and indoctrinated they are too scared to risk leaving Labour??😕

    Either way, Labour should have taken my advice and gone early to the polls. They could have been in the caucus room laughing at the schmucks they hoodwinked again.😏

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  25th June 2020

      ‘the only thing you can do with good advice ..is pass it on'(OW)

      You must have just about run out of recipients by now…. 🙂

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  25th June 2020

        No one listens. I post for historical reference. Enjoy..and marvel.

        Reply
      • Anyone who’s read Oscar Wilde’s works or biographies of him (or even owns a book of quotations) will know that he did not say the majority of those 15 alleged quotes. They are not remotely like anything he said. Even buzzfeed admits that they may not be genuine, and they are not. Clue; he was witty, not witless. Clue; he was alive in the 19th century and did not use 21st century language,

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  26th June 2020

          I’m afraid you can’t sustain that line of argument.
          I have a friend who has an honours degree in English literature (a real one)who confirms what Corky has posted.

          Reply
  3. Quite a wobble here in Dunedin, from a 5.9 earthquake just offshore from Milford Sound. I’m in a quake sensitive building but this was one of the worse I’ve felt here (apart from the big Christchurch daytime quake).

    They get a lot of quakes around Fiordland at the bottom end of the Alpine Fault.

    When we get a sizable quake here my first thought is ‘is this it or is it building into something worse’, followed by ‘I wonder who’s getting this worse than us’.

    We don’t often get local quakes but feel the bigger ones from Christchurch and Fiordland.

    There’s been a 4.2 aftershock but didn’t feel that one.

    Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  25th June 2020
    Reply
    • duperez

       /  25th June 2020

      A presence in Kamo yesterday too as if something was going on.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  25th June 2020

      Whanau and/or gang associates must be hiding him. The heat is on. Who’ll crack?
      Who’ll possibly criticise the police for targeting families?

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  25th June 2020

      Everything good about Maoridom. Everything not-so-good about Maoridom. All in one missive.

      Kia ora ano whānau

      Thank you all for your patience this afternoon as we went into lockdown. A big mihi to our tamariki, staff, whānau and community for your ongoing resilience.

      In light of recent events, and to minimise the risk of further trauma to our tamariki and staff, Moerewa School will be closing on Thursday 25th and Friday 26th June 2020.

      Once I have been advised that matters have been resolved in our community, I will communicate to all whānau.

      In the meantime please look after each other and remember that these trying situations call for a ‘whanau lens’ to be applied. No matter what, we are all connected.

      Take care whanau.
      If you have any concerns contact me directly on 0212136176

      Maia Cooper
      Principal

      Reply
  5. Pink David

     /  25th June 2020

    A wealthy race car drive complains about someone telling him there is a noose, 15 FBI agents are on the scene in hours.

    A shop assistant in a Macys is viciously attacked in a racially motived assault, no one is even arrested.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  25th June 2020

      A lot of weird things happen in that country, things we can’t understand from this distance .

      February:
      “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear,” Trump told attendees at an African American History Month reception in the White House Cabinet Room.
      Speaking about the 15 individuals diagnosed with the coronavirus on US soil, Trump said that “the 15 will soon be down to three, four.”

      Today, near the end of June:
      “It’s going away,” he said of the virus, accusing “the fake news people” of overhyping the problem.

      “Across the United States, more than 36,000 new infections were reported by state health departments on Wednesday — surpassing the previous single-day record of 34,203 set on April 25. Texas, Florida and California led the way, with all three states reporting more than 5,000 new cases apiece.”

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  25th June 2020

        “A lot of weird things happen in that country, things we can’t understand from this distance .”

        You don’t understand this? Why not?

        Reply
        • duperez

           /  25th June 2020

          I understand it’s just people and people do things and what is normal in one place is strange somewhere else. I don’t understand how politicians can and do get involved in legal matters and the fudging between the political and legal in the US. I don’t understand how they let a system like that develop.

          Do you?

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  25th June 2020

            Politicans are the ones who write the laws. There is no system in the world where they are not involved.

            Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  25th June 2020

        In other news, US virus deaths continue to trend down:

        Reply
        • Give it a few more weeks for positive tests to work their way through the illness – from +ve test to hospital to ICU to deaths.

          Just yesterday the US recorded the highest number of new cases in one day since the start of the spread in America. Florida, Texas, Oklahoma and South Carolina reported their highest single-day totals, with Florida reporting more than 5,500 cases.

          Maimi-Dade County in Florida is already reporting more:
          – hospitalisations – up from 546 on June 12 to 776 on June 22
          – intensive care cases – up from 90 on June 12 to 157 on June 22

          Click to access 2020-06-22-new-normal-dashboard.pdf

          This is a long way from being cause for celebration.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  25th June 2020

            The US is a big place and peaks in parts of it inevitably happen as the virus spreads unevenly. I don’t think anyone is celebrating yet.

            Reply
          • Pink David

             /  25th June 2020

            “Give it a few more weeks for positive tests to work their way through the illness – from +ve test to hospital to ICU to deaths.”

            The people testing positive for covid are at an average age of 35. The numbers remain a combination of standard and anti-body tests as well.

            Deaths will keep falling. Your inability to think past a single function is not helping you.

            Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  25th June 2020

          Good news that deaths are down but cases are surging especially in Red States probably because Republicans are less inclined to where face masks. It appears more younger people are getting infected and as they tend to be less badly effected the death rate is declining.
          But rather than disappear the virus seems to be spreading across the south.

          Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  25th June 2020

          Here are the daily figures from 538. The positivity rate is up from 4.9% to 7.7% over a week, which indicates there is more virus out there. Looks like they are only just starting to see the result of opening up the economies.
          EU threatening yo ban travellers from known virus hotspots like the US.

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  25th June 2020

            “Looks like they are only just starting to see the result of opening up the economies.”

            Two days ago you posted ‘who knows what is going on with testing” wrt the US. He you are posting data which you do not understand and you don’t know what is going on with it, then drawing conclusions from a single reference point.

            You really are not experienced with this are you.

            Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  25th June 2020

          Here is some graphics comparing the North East of the US with the rest of the US.

          Reply
    • Pink, lynchings were still happening within living memory, and there have been some suspected ones recently.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  25th June 2020

        Within living memory, sure, that’s a long time though. There have not been any for many years. That is why the need to fabricate these things.

        Reply
        • One or two supposed recent suicides have been a black man hanging himself from a tall tree. How would they have got up so high ?

          Reply
          • The last official recorded ones were 1964 (!) and there have been 5 suspected ones so far this year.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  26th June 2020

              “The last official recorded ones were 1964 (!)”

              Why does that surprise you?

  6. Pink David

     /  25th June 2020

    Burnley man says White Lives Matter, and gets fired from his job, investigated by police and banned by the Burnley FC.

    https://news.sky.com/story/burnley-fan-responsible-for-white-lives-matter-stunt-sacked-from-his-job-12014075

    Cambridge ‘academic’ says White Lives Don’t Matter, gets strong voice of approval from Cambridge.

    Interesting times.

    Reply
  7. Tom Hunter

     /  25th June 2020

    General Flynn is finally…. finally free following the Judge in his case being overruled by another court and having to accept the DOJ’s decision to withdraw all charges against Flynn. Incredibly the Judge tried to keep the case going by basically turning himself into a prosecutor.

    A month ago I wrote a detailed synopsis of the corruption of the FBI and Muller’s team around this case – https://nominister.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-justice-yet-but-general-flynn-is.html, but it was the Spectator that probably best summarised the whole thing with these two paragraphs:

    The disgusting people running the FBI — big boy James Comey, and Peter Strzok, and former head of counterintelligence Bill Priestap, among others — pursued a vendetta against Flynn, manufacturing a bogus case against him in order, first, to destroy someone that Barack Obama and his intelligence operatives detested and, second, to pursue ‘Crossfire Hurricane’, the ‘umbrella’ investigation whose goal was to destroy Donald Trump.

    They were pretty successful at the first job. They smeared Flynn, then they set him up, sending Strzok and another agent to have a friendly chat with him at the White House which they weaponized into a bogus ‘you lied to the FBI’ charge. They got him fired from his position as NSA, bankrupted him through ‘the-process-is-the-punishment’ legal feels, and forced him to plead guilty to a felony by threatening his son with another bogus charge.

    I doubt any of these pricks will ever be punished for this effort to convict a man they knew to be innocent.

    I’d like to think that even Left-wingers opposed to Trump would support this case being dismissed but it seems the TDS is so strong that they can’t bring themselves to acknowledged that his opponents corrupted just about everything to try and get him. They keep that shit up and the Republican voters are going to lose as much faith in the law as the US Left claim they already have, and when that happens it’s not going to be pretty.

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  25th June 2020

      Flynn for director of the FBI

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  25th June 2020

      Yep,even Bloomberg is onto this despite being politically opposed to Trump:
      https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-24/michael-flynn-s-legal-win-is-a-victory-for-justice

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  25th June 2020

        Its not a Bloomberg story, just a opinion piece by a right wing columnist Eli Lake, long a Flynn supporter. however he does seem to base opinions on informed comment , not like a Hosking who is partisan ranter
        Why did Flynn plead guilty, twice before a judge admitting guilt hes not a bozo from a poor neighborhood.
        Two appeals judges out of 3 made a rare legal move to end the case, when normally its presiding udge who gives permission for a case to be dropped
        I dont think its ever worked that way after the case has concluded and its only the sentence to be passed . I know that in NZ that a conviction is entered after the case is concluded, but before sentence is passed some months later (except rare occasions when a discharge without conviction is sought)
        Dont know the US federal system but imagine its similar, so to have a cases dropped after conviction entered is crazy – and they werent angling discharge without conviction.
        The two judges could yet be overuled by the next stage up , a ‘full bench’ decision by the appeal court

        Reply
        • Tom Hunter

           /  25th June 2020

          I dont think its ever worked that way after the case has concluded and its only the sentence to be passed

          The case had not concluded because Flynn’s new lawyer uncovered all the corrupt shit the FBI and SCO had pulled to get the “guilty” plea from Flynn. It wasn’t even a plea bargain but a so-called charge bargain that allowed the reasons for the plea to be hidden from any future judges and juries. Well of course: such people would be greatly interested to know that the witness had been coerced into lying; they’d obviously wonder if he’d been coerced into lying again by prosecutors.

          Read my article above for the details and then argue about it. The whole thing has been a disgrace from the start.

          Not that TDS sufferers will care. Destroying anybody even mildly associated with Trump – even a freaking Democrat like Flynn – is the game.

          Reply
    • Don’t be too sure about that.

      Neomi Rao’s opinion makes no attempt to defend Flynn’s argument. Her order is entirely about preventing DOJ — Bill Barr — from the embarrassment of being forced to explain his decision. She wrote:
      “The contemplated proceedings would likely require the Executive to reveal the internal deliberative process behind its exercise of prosecutorial discretion, interfering with the Article II charging authority”

      I can’t see this not going en banc – whether it’s from Judge Sullivan or sua sponte. Neomi Rao is a wrecking ball, and the other judges on the 9th Circuit have been around long enough to appreciate the load-bearing precedents that she’s taking out with her ruling.

      Just in the last 2 hrs, Judge Sullivan has entered a stay of proceedings, A stay is completely different to dismissing the case, and that suggests he will file a petition for a rehearing en banc.

      Under the DC Circuit rules, the judgment in the Flynn case doesn’t go into effect for 21 days, which means Sullivan’s under no obligation to do anything before then.

      Fed. R. App. P. 40(a)(1)(C) gives Sullivan 45 days to seek a rehearing en banc, but the court would have to recall the panel’s judgment if it doesn’t freeze it between now and July 15.

      July 15 is the real date to keep an eye on whether or not Flynn is free to go.

      Reply
      • I should have added that I find this order on Flynn’s case to be particularly ironic, given that it was issued on the same day that Department of Justice officials were giving testimony to the House Judiciary Committee about how political appointees had intervened in criminal and antitrust cases to advance the personal interests of Trump and Barr.

        Reply
      • Duker

         /  25th June 2020

        Good cactch Ishmael
        ‘“The contemplated proceedings would likely require the Executive to reveal the internal deliberative process behind its exercise of prosecutorial discretion, interfering with the Article II charging authority”

        So when its Trumps cronies executive prosecutorial discretion cant be challenged , but for Republicans Obamas immigrant prosecution discretion must be overuled.

        Reply
  8. Tom Hunter

     /  25th June 2020

    Yeah, yeah Ishmael. Been hearing from you for three years now about the passing parade of your various heroes who would “wreck” / “destroy” / “eviscerate” / “annihilate” Trump and his associates.

    And one-by-one they’ve all gone down the shitter themselves, along with their reputations: Comey, Strzok, McCabe, Mueller, Schiff,…. the list is almost endless.

    Looks like Judge Sullivan is about to be another one, although he’s probably hoping to drag this out until the election in the hope that a Biden Administration would direct the DOJ to re-apply the charges and wage lawfare on Flynn again. Such is the state of US justice.

    Reply
    • Whatever Tom Hunter – all that I’ve done here is point out that there is a legal process that Judge Sullivan has available to him.

      If you can’t cope with that then that really is your issue not mine.

      Reply
  9. Tom Hunter

     /  25th June 2020

    Oh – and then there’s this from the magazine that hated Trump so much they devoted an entire edition to try and stop him winning the GOP nomination, National Review, Comey Told Obama that Flynn’s Conversations with Russian Ambassador ‘Appear Legit,’ According to Strzok Notes

    We’ve already known this for a few months via other documents revealed during the revised discovery process of FBI documents, but it’s nice to see it confirmed yet again.

    Incredibly I think all these Democrat bastards are going to get away without even prosecutions: I guess GOP supporters like myself will have to be satisfied with having their careers cancelled, although some will get a second life in future Democrat administrations.

    Reply
  10. Gezza

     /  25th June 2020

    I wonder how long it will be before we get a Supreme Court decision on this matter. It should be a really interesting one.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/121934969/supreme-court-back-to-hear-tikanga-argument-on-peter-ellis-appeal

    Reply
  11. Corky

     /  25th June 2020

    Government still OK. Winston is not. Seymour is…and very unfortunately the Greens are still in the race.

    The next poll will be the BIG ONE.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  25th June 2020

      Labour & Ardern both down 9 points on last poll. Pretty big drop.
      Jess showed that with these numbers Labour could govern alone with 69 seats.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  25th June 2020

        Whoops – correction

        On these numbers Labour could govern alone with 62 seats; in coalition or Confidence & Supply with the Greens they’d have 69.

        Reply
  12. Today the US broke a record for most COVID-19 cases reported in a day.

    Today Trump announced he’s shutting down COVID-19 test sites in several states.

    Today Rep. Johnson (R-LA) mocked a courageous whistleblower for testifying by video to protect his newborn child from COVID-19.

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  25th June 2020

      What risk does a newborn have from Covid 19?

      Reply
      • I’m glad you asked. According to the CDC,

        “Data suggest that infants (<12 months of age) may be at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19 compared with older children; however, information on clinical presentation and disease severity among neonates is limited and based on case reports and small case series.

        Reported signs among neonates with SARS-CoV-2 infection include fever, lethargy, rhinorrhea, cough, tachypnea, increased work of breathing, vomiting, diarrhea, and feeding intolerance or decreased intake. The extent to which SARS-CoV-2 infection contributed to the reported signs of infection and complications is unclear, as many of these findings can also be seen commonly in term and preterm infants for other reasons (e.g., transient tachypnea of the newborn or neonatal respiratory distress syndrome). The majority of term infants (≥37 weeks gestational age) in these case reports had asymptomatic or mild disease and recovered without complication. However, severe disease requiring mechanical ventilation has been reported in COVID-19 positive neonates."

        https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/caring-for-newborns.html

        Reply
  13. Alan Wilkinson

     /  25th June 2020

    A good column on racism:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2020/06/25/think-racism-hasnt-affected-almost-every-day/

    The problem is the easy visual (mis)identification of an individual with a threat likelihood. Learning to anticipate threat sources is an innate survival skill doubtless acquired via evolution. Moderating that response is never going to be easy.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  26th June 2020

      Learning to anticipate threat sources is an innate survival skill doubtless acquired via evolution.

      In this context I disagree. There’s plenty of evidence small children with a common language playing together are race & colour blind. It’s parental & social conditioning, & everyday experiences, that form racist & race-suspicious attitudes, in my opinion.

      Get told often enuf by parents, friends or associates – or media – or personal experience, that people of any colour – or for that matter social group (like gangs), ethnic group, or occupation (like police) – are bad people or a threat, most people will begin to see them as a potential threat & behave accordingly towards them.

      Depending on an individual human ape’s inherent or acquired or group-expected norms, that responsive behaviour will range from avoidance or submission to aggression.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  26th June 2020

        Yes, that is what I had in mind. We are equipped to do that by evolution.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  26th June 2020

          Anything man is capable of doing can be put down to evolution if you think…about it.

          Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s