Open Forum Saturday

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you, or you think may interest others.. 

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76 Comments

  1. Reply
    • The Planet B cliche is old and tired and should be retired.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  27th June 2020

        I disagree. It’s a simple-to-grasp, brief & effective saying. No reason it shouldn’t be used in several contexts.

        Reply
        • It’s been flogged to death. Every demo has at least half the people carrying placards with it as if it was original and had never been heard before. It’s been used too often to still be effective. These things tend to become meaningless, used by lazy thinkers who can’t find anything original to say.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  27th June 2020

            Every demo has at least half the people carrying placards with it as if it was original and had never been heard before.

            Don’t be daft. The whole point of having it on a placard is that everyone knows what it means. Placards at demos and protests aren’t intended to be blank screens for literary gems or witticisms.

            With your line of thinking most of the famous oft-quoted brief sayings should never be used again because they’re unoriginal & have become cliches.

            Reply
            • In some cases, that is true.

              We all tired of being told to Be Kind, Shop Normal (sic) and to Stay Home, Save Lives and that we were a team of 5,000,000, I think.

              The Planet B thing has been around for far too long.

          • Harry

             /  27th June 2020

            The planet doesn’t need saving. It will be orbiting the sun long after humans have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              Barring a large asteroid or rogue planet strike knocking it out of its current benign & stable orbit, most likely yes.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  27th June 2020

              Might need saving from b.s.

  2. duperez

     /  27th June 2020

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  27th June 2020

      Very clever, and funny too. No guesses who she votes for. She says she’s Jamacian mon.
      I would say she has a good dollop of white blood, but doesn’t mention that. That just ain’t cool. She is quick to identify as black in one of her online clips.

      Reply
  3. Pink David

     /  27th June 2020
    Reply
    • Duker

       /  27th June 2020

      Private equity Cerebus has extracted all the wealth now wants to dump the carcass onto someone else
      “Remington executives arranged a meeting with their creditors. They calmly explained the situation. Remington had been loaded with debt; now it couldn’t pay the interest. After listening politely, the banks made a proposal: They would exchange the money they were owed for an ownership stake in Remington, a so-called Chapter 11 bankruptcy or “debt-for-equity swap.”

      Im sure the same goes with the Stuff buyout, The Editor in Chief is just a front for private equity who put in the money to keep the Aussies at Nine media happy

      Reply
  4. duperez

     /  27th June 2020

    Reality bites: Florida Governor DeSantis showing what a difficult world we live in:
    A month ago and today.

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276544463813390336

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/state-timeline/new-confirmed-cases/florida

    Reply
    • Vice President Pence thinks things are not too bad – Pence claims Americans are seeing “encouraging news” as cases surge

      Vice President Mike Pence asserted Friday that “all 50 states and territories across this country are opening up safely and responsibly” even as cases surge in many states, and eight states across the country have paused their reopening efforts.

      One state, Texas, has even scaled back their reopening plan, closing bars after they had been a part of the states reopening plan.

      Pence said at the White House coronavirus task force briefing Friday that the country has “made truly remarkable progress in moving our nation forward” and that “we’ve all seen the encouraging news as we open up America again.”

      His remarks come as 32 states across the country have seen an increase in cases over the past week, according to data from John Hopkins University.

      Pence also discussed the return of jobs that came with reopening America, and said that some of the original coronavirus hotspots such as the New York metro area and New Orleans have made “extraordinary progress.”

      He said the task force is focusing on 16 states that have been most impacted by coronavirus in recent weeks with both rising cases and rising positivity rates.

      Pence also repeated the President’s refrain that more testing has led to more cases, however the rise in new cases has outpaced the increase in coronavirus testing.

      “To one extent or another, the volume of new cases coming in is a reflection of a great success in expanding testing across the country,” Pence said.

      Pence said that while the US has made progress, the country “still has work to do.”

      https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-06-26-20-intl/h_5218fd02b7ef18940277beb6a18bde02

      The US has a lot of work to do – and once of the things it’s leadership should do is face up to the grim reality.

      Reply
      • During his briefing Pence urged Americans four times to pray, but not once to wear a mask. Wouldn’t even endorse mask-wearing, despite it being part of the CDC guidelines, and guidelines from the Coronavirus Task Force, which he heads.

        In the face of major spikes in states like Florida, with 9,000 new cases overnight, and Arizona where 85% of all hospital beds are now occupied by COVID patients.

        Wearing a mask is a pretty small step to take towards ensuring hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Just a pity that it has become so politicised.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  27th June 2020

          Smart guy. He understands the science better than the CDC.

          “Arizona where 85% of all hospital beds are now occupied by COVID patients.”

          Untrue. 85% of beds are in use.

          “As of Wednesday, 85% of current inpatient beds and 84% of ICU beds were in use for COVID-19 and other patients.”

          https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2020/06/18/arizona-coronavirus-update-2-519-new-cases-hospitalizations-hit-high/3213611001/

          “Wearing a mask is a pretty small step to take towards ensuring hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. ”

          Masks make no difference. The science on this is very clear. Do you not believe the WHO?

          “Just a pity that it has become so politicised.”

          Irony. Marks are a political device. I’ll say this again there is no science to support their use in public.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  27th June 2020

            Results in Asia over decades shows it does work in reducing spread, not so much as preventer

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  27th June 2020

            Marks are a political device

            Marks are folk who are easily deceived or taken advantage of. Like the poor chumps who enrolled in Trump University, or invested in Trumps casino ventures, or who don’t have much intellectual firepower & vote for him because in amongst all the shite he spouts & tweets there are a few things they kind of understand & like.

            The science on masks seems to be whatever study you want to cite.

            Reply
            • 🤣🤣🤣

              Oh, he’s a smart guy. Like Pence he knows better than the CDC … and the guidelines from Pence’s own Coronavirus task force.

              I don’t mind so much the uncertainty of the science. It’s difficult to judge the effectiveness isn the midst of a pandemic.

              But if wearing a mask helps someone feel better about their own health or helps them feel that they are contributing to the health of the community around them, then encourage the practice.

            • Pink David

               /  27th June 2020

              “But if wearing a mask helps someone feel better about their own health or helps them feel that they are contributing to the health of the community around them, then encourage the practice.”

              Great. Good to see you agree marks are a political issue.

            • Pink David

               /  27th June 2020

              Using ‘simple’ science from controlled environments does not translate to general population use. That is not science.

              Single function thinking yet again.

              I have designed dozens of controlled environments for hygienic and sterile operations in pharma and labs. Gown change rooms and masking are involved processes. In a controlled environment they are effect at reducing risk. There is a whole range of reasons why face masks can be actually detrimental for public use as well.

              That is the WHO guideline. I posted yesterday the opinion of the health services for Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Norway. All agree they ineffective and there is no science to support the use of a face covering in public.

              Sticking a rag over your face is not going to work. It might make you feel better, wear one if you wish. They are nothing more than a placibo.

          • The WHO ? Great band, one of the best of all time.

            I wish that people would make their feckin minds up about masks. Do they work or don’t they ??? I’d find them claustrophobic to wear and am thankful that we didn’t have ‘mask-shaming’ as the US has had. An American friend’s son was abused so much for not wearing one that he gave in and did.

            I’d have worn one if it meant no lockdown. But the people who did wear them were idiots much of the time; wearing them under their noses or even under their chins and handling them constantly.

            Reply
  5. Corky

     /  27th June 2020

    Anne Tolley took another look at Muller and Kaye…and said, stuff this.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/anne-tolley-retire-in-politics-after-2020

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  27th June 2020

      more like Anne Tolley has seen her list ranking and said stuff this …she been pushed under the bus clearly. She was offered a high list place in return for stepping down from her seat…but that was from Bridges. Worthless now and they want to save others list spots , maybe Dr Jian Yang
      Do the media have to give the same old platitudes about ‘more time for the family’ when that wasnt the reason they were looking to be a list Mp.
      Same with Amy Adams, she was effectively sacked by Bridges from the Finance job, thats the reason for leaving, now shes had a part in sacking Bridges , to hell with kids growing up shes back as a leader of the pack in Wellington

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  27th June 2020

        ”More like Anne Tolley has seen her list ranking and said stuff this …she been pushed under the bus clearly. She was offered a high list place in return for stepping down from her seat.”

        What? I must have missed that. Can you provide a link? I thought it was because Tolley wanted to be the speaker?

        Reply
          • We don’t know what her motives are. She is the only one who knows. It’s a gruelling life and she may think that she wants to do other things.

            Reply
            • Patzcuaro

               /  27th June 2020

              Probably just reading the writing on the wall (polls), no chance of being speaker unless National can form a government. Three more years of opposition may not appeal.

            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              Duker’s likely quite right about Adams though. Didn’t take long for the family to suddenly get relegated to 2nd priority again.

            • Anne Tolley has been an MP for 34 years.

              She may be thinking that that’s long enough to be on call every minute of every day.

            • Duker

               /  27th June 2020

              Why didnt she say that when stepping down from her electorate …why did she ‘chose’ the list then …more likely the list spot she was offered has been un-offered by the ‘new regime’
              naked political maneuvering from the Mr Nice Guy Muller.

              Captains picks that keep the money raisers in parliament are the priority now.
              Wait with bated breath how high Dr Yang rises up the list as his previous spot had some risk with nationals poll numbers

        • She’s been an MP more than half of her life; she’s past retirement age.

          Do change the Yang record, the needle’s stuck on that one.

          Reply
  6. Pink David

     /  27th June 2020

    California has voted to remove one of the cornerstones of civil rights in order to permit discrimination against people on the grounds of their sex, race, religion & colour.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  27th June 2020

      Excellent. Of course you should be able to discriminate, especially regarding your private property and business. But why is California doing this when they are so woke in other regards? Is it so white people can further be discriminated against?

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  27th June 2020

        ” Is it so white people can further be discriminated against?”

        Yes.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  27th June 2020

          not where it is illegal under US Constitution which applies more widely

          Reply
        • duperez

           /  27th June 2020

          It’s just equality.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  27th June 2020

            Does it ever cross your mind why police in America have it in for blacks, after taking halfwits ( like the above) and pure racists out of the equation?

            Does it ever cross your mind why cops in New Zealand have it in for Maoris?

            Reply
            • There are a number of Maori police in NZ, which seems to have escaped your notice.

            • duperez

               /  27th June 2020

              Maybe some of them are racists. Maybe those suspected of committing obvious felonies on the streets are those from the lower socio-economic groups and blacks predominate in that group. The big crooks dealing in big amounts or money aren’t obvious out on the street doing their ill deeds.

              In New Zealand is it a race thing or a socio-economic thing?

            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              In New Zealand is it a race thing or a socio-economic thing?

              It’s a socio-economic+race+gang thing, imo. The last two are so intertwined it’s more difficult to deal with. Education & jobs are the best solution but intergenerational welfare dependence, chronic lack of jobs in some rohe, & educational under-achievement & gang exploitation of whanaungata & allied educational failure + teenage rebellion + the gang cool image are all mixed in together. You can sometimes chuck another layer of it’s all the fault of the Pakehas’ fault on top.

              Not enuf Maori are making it yet into the trades & STEM fields, which is where more are needed.

            • lurcher1948

               /  27th June 2020

              You and the thick cop would get on like fire, Corky…just saying

            • Corky

               /  27th June 2020

              The reason is because cops who deal with black folk or Maori on the streets, soon learn, especially in the case of Maori, what nasty vicious people they are.

              Who do they have the most problems with?. Who threathens cops families? Who spits in their face and tells them they wish they were fucking dead? Who gets supported by politicaians looking to score cheap political points? Who gets supported by sick white liberal folk ( until their kids get bullied at school, or they get bashed,that is?).

              I personally would have a problem with cops who didn’t racially profile people. After all, it’s all about efficiency. However, it’s a thin line between that and crossing over into bias, racisms and murder, as is happening.

              Duperez, I would suggest you attend court and first have a look in the foyer. What do you notice? Next go into the court. Notice how pakeha take their lumps without a fuss ( including the white collar fraudsters)
              Then notice how some Maori have to be ejected from the court because they have no respect for the process. The same applies in hospitals and everwhere.

            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              I personally would have a problem with cops who didn’t racially profile people. After all, it’s all about efficiency. However, it’s a thin line between that and crossing over into bias, racisms and murder, as is happening.

              So – what do you think they should be doing exactly when they racially profile people.

              What is the purpose of it, in your view?

              How do you think they should act having done so?

              How do they avoid bias, having done so?

            • Corky

               /  27th June 2020

              ”So – what do you think they should be doing exactly when they racially profile people. ”

              Cops should do it stone cold and rational. If they are up town..stop a scruffy Maori as a matter of course. Chances are he can be picked up on something. If they are investigating theft at a business by workers, target Maori first. When I used to visit the railways, Maori made up at least 50% of the thieving I saw going on.

              ”What is the purpose of it, in your view? ”

              Efficiency: If a business has a problem with middle management theft, I would be targeting Pakeha first..that’s their specialty. ( sometimes a look in the car park is all that’s needed.)

              ”How do they avoid bias, having done so?”

              That’s the problem isn’t it. Cops are human. I know I could never be one.
              Maybe they should talk to doctors about how to remain detached?
              I was about to say if cops stick to the letter of the law and use common
              sense, they will be alright. But that isn’t true anymore. Seems cops are being thrown under the bus by their bosses in the present woke climate.

            • Corky’s remarks are racist nonsense; to generalise about an entire race (or millions who happen to have black skin but are different races from many different countries) is absurd. So is his idea that Pakehas meekly accept their punishment; that’s not what we see on the news.If this was true, no one would appeal, they’d accept that they deserved it even if they happen not to have done it.

              As he claims to be half-Maori and have untold numbers of Maori rellies, he is saying that he and they are nasty, vicious and all the rest of the sweeping statements made about them. He can’t have it both ways.

              Most people, I hope, would have qualms about police who racially profile people and treat people differently because of their skin colour as if having brown or black skin makes them criminals.

              Has he heard of skinheads and the National Front ? They are about as vicious as one could imagine. I have heard skinheads abusing people of different races in the UK, including an old Indian man who was sweeping a floor in a cafe and whose dignified demeanour put theirs to shame.

            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              Cops should do it stone cold and rational. If they are up town..stop a scruffy Maori as a matter of course. Chances are he can be picked up on something.

              Nope. They need a valid reason to stop anyone. Looking Maori & looking scruffy is not an offence, nor is it good reason to suspicious an offence has been committed. Those who do this are asking for trouble & doing their officers a disservice. That’s racist. You’re being racist here.

              If they are investigating theft at a business by workers, target Maori first. When I used to visit the railways, Maori made up at least 50% of the thieving I saw going on.

              If 50% of the thieving is done by non-Maori, it’s best not to target any & investigate the lot. Most of the thieving done on the wharves & building sites when my late dad-in-law was working was done by Pakehas. One who stands out in my memory was so prolific at “lifting” stuff dad & his mates called him hydraulic jack. Dad even caught the bugger with a screwdriver trying to steal the iconic metal & yellow AA badge from his car grille.

            • Corky

               /  27th June 2020

              ”Nope. They need a valid reason to stop anyone. ”

              If that’s the case the law is broken all the time by police.

              ”Those who do this are asking for trouble & doing their officers a disservice. That’s racist. You’re being racist here. ”

              Crap. I believe what I see with my own eyes. Not what you want me to be, or think I am.

              ”If 50% of the thieving is done by non-Maori, it’s best not to target any & investigate the lot.”

              Yes, of course, that’s a given. But I would start first with Maori if there are no suspicions.

              ”Most of the thieving done on the wharves & building sites when my late dad-in-law was working was done by Pakehas.”

              Yes, I would expect that.

              More later.

            • duperez

               /  27th June 2020

              Gezza, “socio-economic+race+gang thing, imo. The last two are so intertwined?” You don’t intertwine socio-economic factors with the other two and/or see them as root causes for the gang thing?

              Corky, you say “it’s a thin line between that and crossing over into bias, racisms.” You say “cops soon learn, especially in the case of Maori, what nasty vicious people they are.”

              Whatever the thickness of the line, I can’t see any reason why anyone reading that and some of the other utterances couldn’t come to the conclusion that you are simply a racist.

              You see what you want to see with your own eyes? You see Maori people you see them as nasty and vicious? It’s because you’re seeing them through racist lenses.

            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              ”Those who do this are asking for trouble & doing their officers a disservice. That’s racist. You’re being racist here. ”

              Crap. I believe what I see with my own eyes. Not what you want me to be, or think I am.

              Who knows what you see with your own eyes & what you don’t see. You’re racially profiling anyway to choose what you look for. What’s “scruffy” to you?

              The police need a lawful reason to stop & interrogate someone. If there’s something suspicious about the way they’re behaving giving them cause to believe they may have committed or be about to commit an offence, they fit the description of a reported offender, they are breaking parole or HD conditions etc.

              Above you make the assertion that Maori are vicious and nasty. Maybe that describes all the one you know, or maybe it’s just bs. But that doesn’t describe most Maori I know, so such a generalisation is obviously simply inaccurate. And racist.

            • The local dusties look ‘scruffy’, and probably don’t change into three piece suits before they go home. Most labourers don’t look elegant, either, ans would be fools to turn up wearing clothes from Savile Row . When I was at university, one of my holiday jobs was doing a stocktake of some kind of machine parts. We all wore our oldest clothes as we ended up so filthy and must have been a lovely sight (and smell; Parfum de Machine Oil) as we walked through town.

              I can’t think why Corky was visiting the railways and seeing who was committing thefts. But if it’s true and 50& of the theft was done by Maori, his idea would see the Pakehas getting away with it as the Maori workers would be the ones investigated.

            • Corky

               /  28th June 2020

              @ Duperez

              ”Whatever the thickness of the line, I can’t see any reason why anyone reading that and some of the other utterances couldn’t come to the conclusion that you are simply a racist.”

              I’m dealing with real-time events. What causes Maori to commit so much crime is a different argument. Cops don’t deal with causes; they deal with results.

              Have you ever wondered how a part of a town or city gets a reputation for being seedy or violent? Yep, it’s developed a profile because of criminal activity…time, time, time, and time again.

              ”You see what you want to see with your own eyes? You see Maori people you see them as nasty and vicious? It’s because you’re seeing them through racist lenses.”

              Again, I invite you to visit a court, the next time you are in the big smoke. Then let’s see who’s racist. In fact you won’t even need to go into court. You will see folk smoking over the bonnet of a car, arguing, talking in small groups. If you don’t form a profile of these people you are either a fool or are being dishonest with yourself because what you want to see is Maori as victims.

              I’m not racist. Im a realist. You either commit a crime ..or you don’t. Why is open to debate.

              @ Gezza

              ”Above you make the assertion that Maori are vicious and nasty. Maybe that describes all the one you know, or maybe it’s just bs. But that doesn’t describe most Maori I know, so such a generalisation is obviously simply inaccurate. And racist.”

              Nonsense. You claim to watch One News on a fairly regular basis. If that is true, you are being dishonest with yourself.

              My grandfather was a tally clerk on the Mt Maunganui wharf. He had a little buggy, similar to a modern scooter, except with a roof. Sometimes I would go with for an hour or two. We went all over the wharf. In that time I only saw one Maori, and he was in charge of the rail that came into the port. So, if there was pilfering, I doubt Maori were involved. Again, that is profiling based on facts.

              Of course, when I talk about profiling, I’m assuming because someone is European and doesn’t fit the profile, he isn’t questioned or considered above suspicion.

              Here’s an example, in my opinion, of when a profile didn’t exist, or when a profile wasn’t followed. Here is the results.

              https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/27/glasgow-hotel-attack-stabbing-suspect-park-inn-mental-health

            • Corky

               /  28th June 2020

              ”You and the thick cop would get on like fire, Corky…just saying”

              Lurchy, do me a favour. Inflate the right front trye of your scooter to 25 psi. The other tryers pump to 35psi.

          • Pink David

             /  27th June 2020

            Was it because she is white?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  27th June 2020

              No it’s because they had two 911 calls reporting a person in a stormtrooper uniform with a gun. No doubt they turned up expecting a neo-Nazi with an AR-15. Understandable why they wanted the gun dropped. The rest of it is the usual Yank Cop robotic authoritarianism. “I don’t care what you say; first you have to get on the ground & be hancuffed.”

            • Ha ha, Pink; I get it 😀

          • Gezza

             /  27th June 2020

            Just watched the video. That’s farkin ridiculous of the cop. Unbelievable that he has resigned & still gets paid until Feb 2020. Guessing it’s in his contract.

            Not all that surprising though. From watching PD Uncut Live a few times, once a yank cop asks you to do something, even if it’s clearly unreasonable & unnecessary, as in this case, they call for backup & when other cops arrive they never use their common sense & tell their officer buddy to let it go; they always insist that the innocent victim complies with their colleague’s request.

            That’s why the latest BLM protests have often turned into protests about police brutality & authoritarianism.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  27th June 2020

            @ duperez

            “Gezza, “socio-economic+race+gang thing, imo. The last two are so intertwined?” You don’t intertwine socio-economic factors with the other two and/or see them as root causes for the gang thing?”

            Yeah, good point. They are all correlated. But what I mean is you get crims in lower socio-economic Pakeha groups too. (Corky’s “ferals”.) However among them you don’t get the extensive breadth of close family links with predominantly Maori gangs like Mongrel Mob & Black Power so it’s less of a tolerated norm to a big swathe of Pakeha society.

            The rest of my comment explains why that makes it harder to deal with.

            Reply
    • Duker

       /  27th June 2020

      It was only added by P.209 in 1996 and only applied to state government and its quangos along with local government
      Federal constitution still supercedes the state one,applies to ( mostly) everyone and that doesnt have a ban on affirmative action

      Reply
  7. This is for Pink David – because he loves the Russians so much 😉

    So the Russians were paying Afghan militants to kill American troops.

    Trump and his administration found this out in March. It’s now the end of June and they’re still deciding how they want to handle it.

    Meantime Trump invited Putin to rejoin the G7 … knowing that Putin had put bounties on the lives of men and women in the US military.

    Reply
  8. Media have been criticised for giving the Ministry and the Government a hard time over Covid. It could be avoided if timely transparency was practiced.

    Reply
  9. I wonder where this stands with the electoral act and campaign promotion laws.

    I think it’s a bit cringe.

    Reply
    • Double Vision = seeing double, which isn’t a good thing to associate with alcohol.

      Given the number of cases that were the reverse of kind (like the mother who couldn’t see her dying son, the people who died alone and the appalling number of bankruptcies, newly unemployed people, mental health issues and domestic violence) I think that the ad is most inappropriate. Or does this company think that leaving tens of thousands of old people to live alone for two months because their home help couldn’t come in (it can’t be coincidence that the number of 80+ who died was up by more than 300, according to the Official Information office) and making a young woman who was losing her first baby go through it alone was kind ?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  27th June 2020

        We don’t have an Official Information Office. Requests have to be made to individual departments & organisations covered by the OIA. Where did you actually get this figure from Kitty?

        Reply

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