Open Forum Monday

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you, or you think may interest others.. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts. Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts. Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few, first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria. If they pass muster they will be released as soon as possible (it can sometimes take hours).

Leave a comment

45 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  29th June 2020

    Mr Woodhouse looked particularly unhealthy on TV1 this morning,I think he protests to much over the urban myth homeless man,you tend to think what he says,is woffle

    Reply
  2. Reply
  3. Reply
  4. duperez

     /  29th June 2020

    Follow-up to yesterday’s discussion – profiling. Is this a case of profiling? Is it racism?

    “I see a face in my neighbourhood that is not white, he is probably a criminal or likely to be a criminal.” I will call the cops.

    I wonder if the person who called the cops considered if they were doing it because they were a realist or a racist.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  29th June 2020

      Doesn’t matter. One can claim to be either & easily actually be both. It’s not illegal to actually BE a racist.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  29th June 2020

        The person who called it in reported a stranger who was dressed in a hat & warm winter jacket on a warm fine day, which they thought was suspicious. It might reasonably seem so.

        None of the officers appear to be attired similarly. Someone wearing a bulky jacket conceivably could be concealing something like implements for an opportunistic burglary to a nervous Nelly.

        It’s unlikely, if continued observation showed that all they were doing was delivering leaflets. But there’s insufficient information about the caller & call to conclude they were necessarily being racist by calling it in, imo.

        The issues with law enforcement there were
        1. The officer had no lawful reason to demand ID as he had not established any crime was being committed or about to be committed – and his victim actually had campaign leaflets on him, although he never said that all he was doing was delivering leaflets.
        2. The officer wanted to detain & eventually arrested the guy, basically, for refusing to give him any further information, or to let let the cop detain him, which the officer had no lawful grounds to do, & his victim had the lawful right to do.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  29th June 2020

      PS: Yesterday’s discussion wasn’t about profiling. Yesterday’s discussing was about whether believing and stating, unequivocally, that Maori are nasty and vicious is racist. It is.

      Profling was a separate discussion, most of which took place on Saturday’s Open Forum.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  29th June 2020

      It’s stupidity on the the part of the cop.

      Yes, it’s profiling. And so it should be. An unknown black man in a white neighborhood ( I assume). That’s out of place. It should be checked, like I was when I entered a building that demanded clearance; clearance I had. But I was unknown to security in that building, and had to wait until I was checked out.

      Duperez…stop trying to hang you ideology on the stupidity shown by the cops and possibly the residents. The morality of it can be argued. But that’s the way it is.

      Maybe do a little reading and ask yourself what happens to white folk in the wrong neighborhood? Unless of course they are buying drugs, they don’t get a free card out.

      Here’s a great book.

      ”Don’t Make the Black Kids Angry.”

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  29th June 2020

        I know that’s the way it is. Maybe we should put walls up around neighbourhoods with big labels on them designating whether they’re ‘white’ neighbourhoods or ‘brown’ neighbourhoods.

        Outside the brown neighbourhoods there can be signs proclaiming, “Enter at your own risk.”
        The white neighbourhood can have signs saying, “No entry unless your papers have been checked.” Guards with lots of guns will do the checking.

        The divisions in society might not be that visible, with the ‘vicious and nasty’ being separated from the good people with each having to walk down the designated footpaths, but what is in some minds are as clear as day.

        Arguments about ideology, stupidity and morality? Pshaw, let’s just lock ourselves in our houses with our guns. Ignorance has created the society, why not let the same be our demise and that of those who follow.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  29th June 2020

        Your video is in Boston. In the city, by the look of it.

        Duperez’s is in suburban Des Moines, Iowa.

        Different US states might just as well be thought of as different countries with a common language. And there’s no reason to assume the same offender profiles should apply.

        Reply
        • duperez

           /  29th June 2020

          There’s no reason to assume the same offender profiles should apply in different places? I’m just imagining brown skinned people being treated differently if they’re walking up the street in Rotorua than if it’s in Kohimarama. And a brown skinned person dressed in a hat & warm winter jacket on a warm fine day being ‘suspicious’ enough to call the cops? A white person dressed the same?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  29th June 2020

            I’m replying to Corky’s implication that the same offender profile should be followed in different US locations where crime rates, laws & statistical most common offender profiles may be completely different.

            In New Zealand I imagine it’s the same. That racial profiling isn’t the norm everywhere.

            I’ve never seen it happen where I live. It’s predominantly Pakeha residents but there are plenty of Maori, Polynesians, Chinese, Cambodians, Indians, Sri Lankans etc walking our street.

            Never seen any of them stopped & interrogated by the Police – unless there’s been a nearby burglary, tagging outbreak, beggars (or in one case, a stolen car-trashing) & the cops went looking for anyone who matched the offender descriptions reported. Being Maori most likely wouldn’t get them stopped if they didn’t match the specific offender description.

            Ordinarily, around here, someone delivering leaflets wearing winter gear on a hot day wouldn’t arouse anyone’s suspicions. If that’s clearly all they were doing I’d assume (& most my neighbours would too) that they had a cold or some condition that made them feel chilly. We don’t see cops or cop cars around here much.

            I can’t speak for what happens in places I’m not familiar with.

            Reply
            • Some people feel the cold more than others, and 19oC is borderline. He took the leaflets from under his jacket, so may well have been using its pockets to carry them. If all he was doing was a flyer drop, I’d see no reason to call the cops; if he was peering into houses, I certainly would. But I’d do that if anyone was doing it.

            • Gezza

               /  29th June 2020

              Around here people doing leaflet drops on foot usually have them in a shoulder bag. Putting them in your pockets wouldn’t be particularly comfortable or utilitarian. You’d have to leave your jacket open to easily pull them out without buckling or scrunching some up a bit, & his jacket’s done up in the video. But there’s no rule or law that says you must have a bag.

              Personally I think he’s just feeling cold. The video narrator is clear that having established that he is not soliciting & with a lapful of campaign leflets has lawful business to be in the street the officer should have left it there & departed.

              He should have reported in his finding & the police call centre should have notified their caller accordingly.

            • That’s it in a nutshell..profiling without racism.

            • Gezza

               /  29th June 2020

              That’s not profiling Corks. That’s just investigating a report of a “suspicious” person.

              Result: Nothing suspicious.

            • I suspect that his being black was the reason for him being suspected.

            • duperez

               /  29th June 2020

              Yes, maybe the profiling was done by a racist who called the cops.

        • Corky

           /  29th June 2020

          In this case the offenders were the profilers. I was just giving a graphic example of how a white person can be treated in black neighbourhoods. Seems to me black folk have the better deal if you think about it ( generally). They just get the cops called on them, or have a good,ole boy threaten to tap them if they don’t scoot.

          Funny thing, I went to find my favourite clip to post showing a white person being beaten in a black neighbourhood. That clip has gone along with many others. Obviously YouTube have their own profiling going on.

          Reply
          • Why would such a thing be your favourite clip ? Don’t assume that other people want to see these things. We all know what violence looks like, we don’t want to see it as entertainment.

            Videos disappear from YouTube; it happens.

            Reply
  5. Trump’s press secretary has claimed that he knew nothing about the Russian Federation, placing a bounty on American soldiers’ heads. But the White House hasn’t explained why the president wouldn’t be briefed on a plot to kill US soldiers deployed overseas.

    And while they deny all knowledge, the intelligence community has revealed that they knew about the information as early as January 2020. And that the intelligence finding was included in the President’s Daily Briefing.

    Katrina Mulligan, formerly of the National Security Council, Dept of Justice, Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and National Counterintelligence and Security Center, has written that she “worked at NSC and spent 10 years at ODNI (including in the division responsible for the President’s Daily Brief and there is no way—none!—that Trump and his senior officials were not briefed on this.” She calls bullshit on the WH denials.

    It’s ridiculous how much time and energy the media is spending on the admins lies and deflections claiming the white house didn’t know. They have blunted the point and turned the conversation to flailing justifications about how Trump and Pence could plausibly have not known. The initial reporting was very clear, and the media’s willingness to naively consider their lies about who knew what when is pathetic.

    Trump’s invitation to Putin to attend the G7 summit and Trump’s draw down of US troops in Germany now look a lot like rewarding, let alone negotiating with, not just one, but two terrorist organizations: the Taliban and the GRU.

    IIRC, Republican presidents have a history of that sort of thing.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  29th June 2020

      Of course the press secretary claiming that he knew nothing about the Russians placing a bounty on American soldiers’ heads means only that she ‘claims’ that he knew nothing about it. It doesn’t mean he didn’t know.

      Naturally, given the warmth of the relationship between the Americans and the Russians over scores of years you can understand why all of the officials wouldn’t trouble the President about such a little matter as Russians trying to purchase the death of American soldiers.

      They’re probably busy doing important stuff like proving Obama should be locked up for treason. 🙃

      Reply
      • Well if it ain’t about Trump he doesn’t want to know about it so there is a possibility he just zoned out – just like he’s doing with COVID-19

        But Trump has a predilection for projecting his own shortcomings onto all those around him – like calling treason on Obama last week. And that makes me wonder if Trump had a tip-off from the NYT that the story was going to break, so got in first with his “treason, treason” dogwhistle to his MAGAts

        Reply
  6. Blazer

     /  29th June 2020

    in an election year …voters should remember …National’s ‘Got Talent’….hat tip to Paula’s liquor cabinet…

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/invisible-man-national-mp-jian-yang-reporters-two-year-attempt-get-him-front?auto=6167753927001

    Reply
  7. duperez

     /  29th June 2020

    Oops, tip the hat to Bennett! She gone!

    Reply
    • Reply
      • Blazer

         /  29th June 2020

        a good news day.

        Truck stop waitress to deputy leader of the opposition.A very thick and thin….career.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  29th June 2020

          Funnily enough, that’s what socialists are saying on talkback. I take the opposite view. As the dollars become less, the Minister Of Social Welfare will need to be a person who can stretch the dollar. Paula would be capable of that. I don’t know about the rest, either from Labour or National.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  29th June 2020

            You may have a point.
            When it comes to belt tightening,both Paula B and also retiring Anne Tolley have the experience.

            Two National beltway politicians following on from..Jenny Shipley. 😉

            Reply
            • We don’t have a beltway here; that’s in America.

            • Gezza

               /  29th June 2020

              You’re right. It’s an American phrase – but it’s become a well known & journalistically widely-used metaphor for the government corridors of power in New Zealand by lazy repeaters/reporters & political pundits now.

              Out of interest, what would you replace it with?

        • Nothing; why do we need anything to describe something that doesn’t exist ? One might as well talk about the Senate or President.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  29th June 2020

            One often does.

            Someone told me…I think it was on …the news.

            Reply
      • Duker

         /  29th June 2020

        Another one whos found shes in a barely winnable position on the list, she gave up her seat last year expecting to be number two.
        The new leadership run by the party cadres who are now Mps made sure its ‘dead wood’ thats being pruned.
        Indications are they will be trying to save captains picks from the ethnic groups who give diversity and are fund raisers from their communities.
        Goodbye stale and pale

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  29th June 2020

      Don’t like Stuff’s new home page. Too much scrolling required to find items of interest. Too slow to scroll on me poor old FiP2
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300044628/paula-bennett-stepping-down-from-politics-at-election-after-national-leadership-changes

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  29th June 2020

        Agreed, it’s harder to find what you want to read on my tablet anyway.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  29th June 2020

          Huge numbers of cookies now open up when you go to stories. Thats slowing things down a lot
          Looks like they are now using Demdex cookies a platform from Adobe to better track their readers for advertisers

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  29th June 2020

            I can see myself reading Stuff less. Too slow to load & too many page crashes on my iPad2. That’s been a reason I read the Herald very infrequently.

            The big unblocked front page daily ad on the Herald – & the new unblocked begging ad on Stuff – have been slowing page-loading & reading down too much too, & cause frequent page crashes & page reloads – with the same bloody ad coming up on top.

            Plus, clicking the X to close them frequently loads an unwanted damn headlined page underneath them.

            Hopeless.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  29th June 2020

              Yeah. It’s utterly useless trying to read Stuff on my iPad2 now. Loading pages is twice as slow as their old configuration. Pages hang for ages before opening fully. Impossible to scroll down the front page looking for headlines of interest – multiple page crashes with both attempts to do so. Reading the new Stuff is such an exercise in frustraion it’s not worth it. 😕

              What a bugger. I liked Stuff for its ease of use & easy view of headlines of interest before.

  8. Blazer

     /  29th June 2020

    things aint what…they used to..be..

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s