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40 Comments

  1. Jack

     /  6th July 2020

    Just watched Muller’s nice feeling media stint. His wife did well.
    Why the Catholicism? Are we supposed to feel good about that, along with them? I think Jacinda does well enough at showing us why feely politics is stupid – and unacceptable.
    Todd doesn’t explain why it’s OK not to have Maori representation in his top line up. He doesn’t explain why abortion is sad. I don’t think he knows.
    These books have much political opinion – a bit different, but at least the author explains himself –
    https://www.amazon.com/author/hakaonthepew

    Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  6th July 2020

      Why does he have to explain the paucity of Maori on his front bench? If you have a policy of selecting on merit there will be inequality of representation. No explanation needed.

      Tokenism has no place in today’s modern and progressive society. Perhaps a reason society is sliding backwards into the dark ages again? There is a famous quote from Martin Luther King regarding skin colour versus the content of ones character, that is well heeded in these woke times.

      Killing a child is sad and whilst I support abortion choice for women, it is still taking an unborn life. Why does that need a full and frank explanation? I feel sad when an abortion happens.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  6th July 2020

        I agree re Maori representation. Although I wonder if an opportunity went begging to hammer home the fact National will not be a tokenistic party. After all, interviewers are after a slip up
        that can be replayed ad nauseam. They are probing for uncertainty. Muller should have made sure media received the message and understood future probing on this issue would be a wasted effort.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  6th July 2020

          Well, he pretty much did. He was making sure he said nothing that could be endlessly quoted back against him by opponentts as meaning that, really, he’s anti-Maori aspirations.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  6th July 2020

            Yes, he did. But it was insipid. He had plenty of leeway to hammer the point home without getting himself into trouble. He could have given the media a swipe while he was at it.

            Now, I’m no Tony Robbins fan. I find the guy a little creepy…like a domesticated psychopath. But ..in this clip he nails what Muller needs..rapport. Muller’s expressionless face does not talk to people on a subconscious level. Compare that to Jacinda’s broad smile; her empathetic long face and, what I call her curt look when she’s pissed off with a question being asked. But the point is she’s always communicating with gesture. Muller looks like a blank slate.

            I must admit when I was studying NLP in the 80s and came across this notion that gesture is more important than words, I found it hard to believe. Our coach gave us exercises to try in the real word. I found out this concept is true, although intellectually I still struggle with words not being the bigger influence.

            Reply
            • Gestures have to mean something or they are just distracting handwaving. The 1 weatherman waves his hands around, but it’s pointless.

              A curt look would be a short, brusque one, or a rude & abrupt one; is this really what you mean ?

        • Jack

           /  6th July 2020

          I agree with you both. The point is, why does he play his Catholic card? It’s pointless, or should be – he doesn’t need religion to be a great leader, but he is showing himself as sub standard because he apologises for pointless things.
          Religion makes him dull, whereas he could be really sharp.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  6th July 2020

            Chris Trotter answers those two questions well, in my opinion.

            https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/105493/chris-trotter-assesses-national-leader-todd-mullers-weekend-speech-suggesting-he-has

            Both Labour & National are after the swing voter. Both Muller & Ardern are pitching to those who are motivated by a sense of community.

            Ardern is preaching that we are ALL a national community which is why there are the constant references to our “team of 5 million”, pushed also by a rather propagandist mainly now female-oriented mainstream media.

            We are not a team of 5 million. So this doesn’t sway me, but it probably does have a strong subconscious psychological impact on many voters, especially females. The Be Kind mantra seems to have been abandoned, possibly as it was starting to attract media comment about having become unacceptable free electioneering on highway signs.

            Muller seems to be taking the tack that we are all in communities, plural, signalling possibly that he wants to put National’s policy focus on families, whanau & communities at a more individual, provincial & local level. He specifically mentioned favouring Bill English & the Maori party’s Whanau Ora approach to helping dysfunctional families.

            We’ll just have to wait & see what policy they each roll out over the next few weeks to see how they want to differentiate themselves.

            Both are pretty vague at the moment.

            Reply
      • NOEL

         /  6th July 2020

        Aw on the lack of diversity. They lead a Public Service that requires tick boxes for gender, ethnicity,sexual orientation etc during selection. Merits got little to do with it.,

        Reply
  2. Gezza

     /  6th July 2020

    I presume you’re referring to the women’s magazine-style piece on last night’s Sunday programme.

    No great mystery about the Catholicism. He’s pitching for the Christian conservative vote. Abortion views probably influenced by the Christian conservative view that it’s God’s decision when & where to give life & when to take it away, so when you die in misery or as the victim of war or an appalling murder, that’s God’s decision (explained away by that not being God’s decision – or something).

    That he supports contraception which Rebecca Wright said the Catholic Church is opposed to shows that he is modern & progressive and reflects the reality that most modern day Catholics do & have done so since contraception became widely available.

    Not having a Maori on his front bench is just a reflection of his view that the top priority should go to those he thinks will be best suited to the most senior Ministerial roles in his government if he ended up PM. That will also appeal to his target core audience. He obviously doesn’t expect to pick up many votes from Maori, & won’t.

    Ardern has gone the other way & has a Maori Deputy leader. This is optics as it’s very plain that Kelvin couldn’t take over as leader if he had to. He doesn’t have the skills or charisma. Robertson would. But it does show that Ardern & Labour recognise that relationship building & management, status, oratory & Mana Maori are much more important in gaining the respect & support of traditional marae-focussed Maori voters than whether you have technical or managerial skills more favoured by middle & upper class Pakeha voters.

    Why do you keep advertising this book? Are you the author?

    Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  6th July 2020

      Ardern has to pander to the Maori voter as the Maori seats are 30% of her electoral vote.

      A Maori vote split between Labour and the Maori party is not good for Labour hence the Maori pandering and the Davis tokenism.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  6th July 2020

        Yes. Her view has been that Labour’s approach is to lift all boats & in the process Maori will be lifted too as a consequence. She understands the importance & significance of The Grand Gesture in her dealings & korero with Maori. But she is very careful in how much she is seen to get involved with Maori issues, eg, Ihumatao. And I’m not seeing much in the way of significant improvements for Maoridom beyond gestures. Even the reduction in prison musters seems arguable.

        Reply
      • duperez

         /  6th July 2020

        Are Maori seats 30% of Labour’s electoral vote?

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th July 2020

          Some one is mixedup.
          Maori MPs are spread across Maori seats and list.
          7 maori seats out of the 46 labour has ( as a result of its share of party vote of 956k )
          so 7 divided by 46 is 15%
          Electorate votes for labour from Maori seats were 97,000 and labour electorate votes combined all electorates were 956,000
          So result of electorate votes from maori seats( not party votes ) is 10%
          https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/statistics/votes-for-registered-parties-by-electorate.html

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  6th July 2020

            That last link is party vote per electorate NOT for electorate MP. In the electorate vote people vote for the person not the party , some MPs under perform or over perform the party vote for various reasons. ie Jacinda will get a big personal vote ahead of the party vote in her electorate.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  6th July 2020

            There are Labour Maori MPs in some General seats as well. Te Ao Maori identifies the following as Maori MPs.

            Labour Party [13]

            2. Kelvin Davis – Te Tai Tokerau (Ngāti Hine)

            17. Willow-Jean Prime – Northland (Ngāti Hine, Ngāpuhi)

            21. Kiritapu Allan – East Coast (Ngāti Ranginui, Ngāi Te Rangi, Tūwharetoa)

            22. Willie Jackson – List (Ngāti Porou, Ngāti Maniapoto)

            26. Louisa Wall – Manurewa (Ngāti Hineuru)

            29. Jo Luxton – Rangitata

            34. Paul Eagle – Rongotai

            – including remaining Māori Electorate MPs:

            Peeni Henare – Tāmaki Makaurau (Ngāti Hine)

            Nanaia Mahuta – Hauraki-Waikato (Ngāti Te Ata, Waikato)

            Tamati Coffey – Waiariki

            Adrian Rurawhe – Te Tai Hauāuru

            Meka Whaitiri – Ikaroa-Rāwhiti (Rongowhakaata, Ngāi Tāmanuhiri, Ngāti Kahungunu)

            Rino Tirikatene – Te Tai Tonga (Kai Tahu, Ngāti Hine)

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  6th July 2020

              They stand in those electorates but only win in Maori seats apart from Louisa Wall ( whos now list only)
              its a common thing for parties to get list Mps to stand in electorates, but they get in on list based on people ticking labour or other party.
              Louisa Wall was elected because shes labour not because she maori and labour.
              Based on facts my numbers show 10% of party vote comes from the Maori seats.
              Saying they are ‘beolden’ to their Maori Mps is different again and good luck with 30% over ruling 70%…of course MPs views might vary and arent a block
              Interesting that Maori party gets 20k votes in Maori seats , 10k votes in general seats ( roughly 45% of maori are enrolled in general seats)
              Labour gets 97k party votes in Maori seats
              Next election will change all the % again, and thats what they are looking at . No point fighting last election again.
              Likely positions of National and labour will reverse as one gets high 40s and the other gets mid 30s

            • Gezza

               /  6th July 2020

              Paul Eagle, MP for Rongotai & Chathams is Maori ethnicity too. Wall & Eagle are the two in Labour who won General seats.

              13 Maori MPs out of a total 46 Labour MPs is most likely where Gerrit got that 30% figure.

    • Jack

       /  6th July 2020

      Pete took down one of my gentle posts when I included this link – so it must mean something.
      I advertise it to you because the views shared there are worth considering. Best read in order, to really get the gist. A few people are finding them good.

      Reply
  3. Patzcuaro

     /  6th July 2020

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th July 2020

      Ah No. Leader of the House doesnt matter any more as parliament closes soon for school holidays and then for election soon after.
      Ministerial work winds down in the months before election anyway, and as much cabinet work is around proposals that arent within a ministers portfolios- the collective cabinet thing- he only needs to read the paper work once.
      didnt Judith Collins say the other day she was doing a post grad diploma while a cabinet minister. It also helps that Hipkins lives in Wellington so its a limo home every night, and can work in the car on the way.

      Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  6th July 2020

    Lots of VERY angry old sounding white males badmouthing our PM Jacinda Ardern,on Peter Williams rightwing hate feast this morning,most angry males seem to love the NRA gunloving David Seymour,over the sweatyTodd Muller.I feel the angry males feel inadequate been lead by a female, as it affects their manhoods.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  6th July 2020

      I wouldn’t mind a possum leading this country if it’s going to put money in my back pocket.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  6th July 2020

        well Muller does do a good impression of one…caught in the headlights.

        He has no charisma,no original thoughts ,constantly mentions the former Nats front row as a recommendation for him becoming P.M.-hopeless.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th July 2020

          He cant even make up his own mind for long. 6 weeks ago there was only Justice spokeman job for Bridges, Foreign Affairs was out.
          Lo and behold , FA is now available after the Womens Affairs person dropped down the list retired
          Muller is in a weaker position now which will continue to weaken up to election day. He seems to be an amiable person with ability but no way of scaring the life out of his enemies. And Bridges is an enemy who wont hesitate along with his allies to return Muller to obscurity he came from.
          National is splitting into its factions, with the cadres and their social liberal allies against the more fundamental christian and hard right followers. With people like Brownlee , Collins MacClay etc swing in between to suit ther career.
          Luxon will be a fund raising powerhouse amoungst the christians outside the party, as they see his business experience and faith as the John Key they wished they had. He will use that money raisining ability to build alliances inside the party once hes elected. However his business experience in marketing and as CEO of Air NZ wont prepare him for the different rules inside politics.
          Key had a much better fit as he was only a senior manager for a small division of a massive enterprise and was more of team leader of highly paid traders and who needed to be both rewarded and disciplined and let loose to make money. Much more like party politics than you would think

          Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  6th July 2020

      With Ardern now the saviour, is she the second coming?

      New anthem?

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  6th July 2020

        Yep, you should read those books. Christianity and Jacindaism both ridiculed.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  6th July 2020

          Do your books come with a health warning?

          ‘may cause…drowsiness’!

          Reply
    • Lurch, why do you keep slandering David Seymour ? The NRA comparison is a gross insult and could hardly be further from the truth These remarks are totally defamatory, unless you have no idea about how the US NRA works. You don’t have to agree with him, but you should not use defamation as a weapon, either.

      Anyone who says that about him is a clueless idiot. He is not remotely in favour of the anything goes ideas of the NRA, as you ought to know by now.

      The idea that he is, is a total lie and I would be careful about whom I said it to. Defamation is a serious offence in NZ.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  6th July 2020

        Not an offence , its a civil action and a defence is that what is claimed is true.
        The Policy is lots of waffle but this is the centre of it
        “Reinstate the E endorsement category and expand it to include all recently-prohibited semi-automatic firearms (excluding .22 rimfire or smaller) and remove the ‘military-style’ descriptor.
        “Stop the shift towards a centralised firearms licensing regime, which reduces the local presence of Arms Officers and vetting personnel, and removes face-to-face interviews of applicants;
        “Stop the creation of a register for A category firearms; ”
        All would get NRA tick of approval

        Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  6th July 2020

        His number 3 is a gun nutter advocate,and I think 8 in the top 20 are gun nutters,real men dont need a gun to be a normal male,and killing innocent animals is so the day before yesterday Kitty,and dont worry about David Seymour Kitty,there will be [deleted, that’s going way too far – PG]

        Reply
  5. Pink David

     /  6th July 2020

    Run Tom, Run. Sort of like ‘Lets keep moving’.

    Reply
  6. Duker

     /  6th July 2020


    ‘Trump was once a more articulate person who sometimes told stories that had beginnings, middles, and ends, whereas he now leaps from thought to thought. He has come to rely on a small stable of adjectives, often involving superlatives. An improbably high proportion of what he describes is either the greatest or the worst he’s ever seen; absolutely terrible or the best; tiny or huge.

    The frontal lobes also control speech, and over the years, Donald Trump’s fluency has regressed, and his vocabulary contracted.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/trump-cog-decline/548759/

    1988 on Oprah

    -Trump: Well, I think it’s going to be very interesting. I think that probably George Bush has an advantage, in terms of the election. I think that probably people would say he’s got, like, that little edge in terms of the incumbency, etcetera, etcetera. But I think Jesse Jackson has done himself very proud. I think Michael Dukakis has done a hell of a job. And George Bush has done a hell of a job. They all went in there sort of as semi-underdogs—including George Bush—and they’ve all come out. I think people that are around all three of those candidates can be very proud of the jobs they’ve done.

    Compare with more recent

    People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it—you’ve been to many of the rallies. Okay, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it’s funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the Electoral College. Big, big, big advantage … The Electoral College is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall.

    So Sad , the decline would be getting worse

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  6th July 2020

      A little behind the 8 ball, Duke. Gezza and I discussed Trumps speech. or lack thereof, about a year ago. I noted at the time he had a limited vocabulary that was being recycled continuously.

      However, you are writing Trumpy off. I wouldn’t do that just yet.

      Reply
    • Even allowing for the fact that speech can sound odd when it’s written down and read as a piece of writing, this is very odd. It’s borderline gibberish.

      Reply
  7. Corky

     /  6th July 2020

    I’m wonder why the woman who scaled a high fence to escape isolation, did so? My guess is she was cold turkey. It will be interesting to see what sentence is imposed on her when she appeares in court.

    Reply
    • My guess is that it’s anyone’s guess and it’s pointless trying to guess.

      People GO cold turkey, they are not cold turkey themselves.

      Reply

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