Open Forum Tuesday

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68 Comments

  1. David

     /  7th July 2020

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/06/arron-banks-bad-boys-brexit-did-next-fighting-septembers-election/

    I am warming to NZ First this election and having Farage,s team helping out is a genius move. I listened to Choppers Politics Podcast and the interview he did with Peters last week and it was very good and worth a listen. Peters predicted Brexit and Trump which is always something to contemplate and I think this election its critical that NZers are put first in the job market ahead of migrants, you look after your own first.

    Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  7th July 2020

      Be nice to see how NZFirst will get the cuzzy of the couch in Tolega Bay and down to Hawkes Bay to pick apples.

      Good rhetoric to say Kiwi’s first for jobs, but turning the talk into walk has always been the problem.

      Lets see what they come up with. Not holding my breath mind you.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  7th July 2020

        I agree. Turning the talk into walk, or in this case work, is the thing. How would you do it?

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  7th July 2020

      Employers love the migrant workers work ethic.They are more compliant ,flexible ,non unionised and mean more profit.

      The msm has been seeded with anecdotes in recent weeks of…’can’t get workers @$X an hour.
      Closer examination shows the content does not match the headline.

      The hospo industry is a prime example.
      Can’t survive without unskilled immigrants ..apparently.
      Retail is another.Need minimum wage salespeople to plump profits.

      Reply
      • David

         /  7th July 2020

        I would surmise the labour market has changed a lot whereas with 4 % unemployment there arnt many employable, sadly, but with 10% there should be a good pool of talent able to be re trained ahead of migrants.

        Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th July 2020

      Curious how some people think it is fine for young Kiwis to head overseas on their OE to get work but terrible if young people want to come here.

      A large elephant in a small room.

      Reply
  2. Blazer

     /  7th July 2020

    ‘hand picked’…but…can they be trained to pick apples?

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1945744/monkey-picked-coconut-boycott-spreads

    Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  7th July 2020

    some NZ’ers still hold onto the quaint notion that houses are for people to live…in…
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/116105066/ghost-houses-on-the-rise-a-problem-of-our-own-making

    Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  7th July 2020

    In other news, US daily virus deaths hit lowest number since March 23. MSM report this and congratulate Trump … no???

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    Reply
    • Watch from 1 minute 25 seconds as medical staff from San Antonio Methodist Hospital describe how the past week has been overwhelming for hospital staff – the next wave of virus deaths is starting to ramp up and youth is no barrier.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  7th July 2020

        Of course youth is a barrier. Don’t be ridiculous.

        Reply
        • you didn’t listen did you. You’ve made a stupid statement in light of what the doctors are describing.

          That’s the medical specialists describing what they are encountering in their hospitals – from 1 minute 25 in … when they talk about the hospitalisations and triaging of ten young people with only 3 ventilators available.

          and from 2 minutes 40 “the patients are getting younger and they’re more sick”

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  7th July 2020

            Death rate for young people is a fraction of that for elderly. Of course youth is a barrier even if a few get through it.

            Also that hospital is loaded because it is claimed to be sent the worst cases from the whole of South Texas. Cherry picking much.

            Reply
    • The statewide Texas death toll from COVID-19 is now 2,676. That’s a 75% increase in deaths since May 31 (Memorial Day in America).

      The 14-day running average for COVID-related deaths in Texas has increased by 26% from two weeks ago.

      The 14-day running average for COVID-related deaths in Florida has increased by 31% from two weeks ago.

      The 14-day running average for COVID-related deaths in Arizona has increased by 59% from two weeks ago.

      The 14-day running average for COVID-related deaths in California is currently flat-lining compared with two weeks ago. But in the past two weeks new cases have increased by 68% and deaths are likely to follow.

      The 14-day running average for COVID-related deaths in Tennessee has increased by 7% from two weeks ago. But in the past two weeks new cases have increased by 93% and deaths are likely to follow.

      https://www.statnews.com/feature/coronavirus/covid-19-tracker/

      Only a fool would think that deaths are in decline across America. And only a fool would congratulate Trump for his failure to manage coronavirus,

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  7th July 2020

        Only a fool would deny the actual national data amd charts I linked to and cherry pick some hot spots in reply.

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  7th July 2020

        Guess I’m in good company then. Covid deaths across the usa have fallen into margin of error territory. Down to 219 two days ago

        But keep banging the drum jo. Your endless shrieking is becoming just too funny

        Reply
        • Deaths are up a bit yesterday (weekend numbers are usually lower).

          But: Dr. Anthony Fauci warns US is ‘knee-deep’ in first wave of coronavirus cases and prognosis is ‘really not good’

          In an interview via Facebook Live, the nation’s top infectious disease expert said, “We are still knee-deep in the first wave of this. And I would say, this would not be considered a wave. It was a surge, or a resurgence of infections superimposed upon a baseline.”

          “A series of circumstances associated with various states and cities trying to open up in the sense of getting back to some form of normality has led to a situation where we now have record-breaking cases,” Fauci said in the chat with NIH Director Francis Collins.

          Fauci’s characterization comes shortly after he warned Congress last week that new coronavirus infections could increase to 100,000 a day if the nation doesn’t get its surge of cases under control.

          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/06/anthony-fauci-us-coronavirus-surge-really-not-good/5388472002/

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  7th July 2020

            Reportedly some of the “cases” are now antibody test results which conflates historic with current infections. This may account for at least some of the huge disparity between case and death trends.

            Reply
            • Fun fact: The state of Florida no longer registers a death as a COVID death unless the person who has died was tested positive before they died.

              The state has also stopped testing rest home residents. If you’re a senior citizen who dies of COVID in a rest home in Florida, you no longer count.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  7th July 2020

              “If you’re a senior citizen who dies of COVID in a rest home in Florida, you no longer count.”

              Can you prove it?

              From the source of the Nile: http://www.floridahealth.gov/

              “The list of long-term care facilities with deaths is available here, which is updated weekly”. Updated 3 July

            • Pink David

               /  7th July 2020

              “If you’re a senior citizen who dies of COVID in a rest home in Florida, you no longer count.”

              The standard that has been used to date is that anyone who dies with Covid, or suspected as having Covid is recorded as a ‘covid death’.

              I wonder what leaps of logic you will come up with next week when US deaths keep declining. Will it be Russia!

            • “The standard that has been used to date is that anyone who dies with Covid, or suspected as having Covid is recorded as a ‘covid death’.”

              Based on what?

              There have been varying standards all over the world and no doubt around the US.

            • Pink David

               /  7th July 2020

              Based on the reporting standard.

              I’ve posted it before. It is deaths with Covid, not from Covid.

              The UK for example is very explicit about the numbers being highly inflated, but no one pays attention. Spain resurrected 2,000 people a month back. Ireland has just had one last week;

              “”In Ireland we counted all deaths, in all settings, suspected cases even when no lab test was done, and included people with underlying terminal illnesses who died with Covid but not of it.””

              https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/covid-19-leo-varadkar-describes-hiqa-mortality-study-as-interesting-but-not-a-surprise-1009053.html

          • Conspiratoor

             /  7th July 2020

            If you look at the good doctors track record from the outset you’ll find hes been all over the place on this. And invariably wrong

            Reply
      • Tom Hunter

         /  7th July 2020

        All the MSM screaming in the world about “new cases” won’t change this graph from the CDC

        It’s over. You’ll have to find something else to attack Trump on.

        Reply
        • we all know the history and it provide plenty to attack Trump on – but its the next couple of months that matter, and the medical experts in hotspot America are ALL saying it’s not over by a long shot.

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  7th July 2020

            ” the medical experts in hotspot America are ALL saying it’s not over by a long shot.”

            This is laughably far from the truth.

            Reply
        • Trump seems to be capable of finding things on a daily basis that he can be criticised for.

          Last election enough people gave him a chance not knowing whether his campaigning was an act and he would come right as president. Now they know he’s worse than expected, especially over the last few months, he’s going to find this campaign tougher, regardless of what happens with Covid.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  7th July 2020

            The MSM seems to be capable of finding things on a daily basis that Trump can be criticised for.

            Trump alarmism, virus alarmism, climate alarmism, Megan and Harry alarmism, are pumped out daily. They have replaced house price alarmism, poverty alarmism and homelessness alarmism which are no longer appropriate to the Mission of Supporting the CoL.

            Reply
        • Tom Hunter

           /  7th July 2020

          we all know the history…

          The history of Trump being attacked as racist and xenophobic by Democrats when he began shutting down flights from China in late January?

          The history of Democrats <a href="http://nominister.blogspot.com/2020/04/dismissing-chinese-coronavirus.html&quot;?like Pelosi in SF and DeBlasio in NYC putting out Tweets telling everybody to come on down to the festivities because there was nothing to worry about from the virus aside from xenophobia?

          The history of NY state and it’s hopeless Democrat governor and the even more hopeless mayor of NYC with thirty thousand COVID deaths on their hand, plus another 15,000 in NJ. I suppose you could blame Trump for not removing them from office and Federalising everything there, but the Constitution doesn’t allow that. Guidelines was a good as it could get and in terms of actions rather than words, Trump has followed Fauci and company’s advice almost to the letter. But you can’t keep 320 million people locked down forever.

          Nope, it’s all on the Democrats who run those places from top to bottom – along with the riots, looting and arson that they allowed to happen after demonising their own police forces and pulling them back.

          And all the gaslighting from the US MSM to hide that fact and try to drag GOP-controlled states into the mire is not going beat the internet images and video of all that from Facebook, YouTube, Twitter and TiTok. Not to mention that the MSM themselves whipped up the hysteria to damage Trump, only to finally realise how bad it looked for the Democrats. It’s why you wouldn’t know that there has been nightly riots from the Antifa crowd in Portland for a month now.

          and the medical experts

          You mean the medical experts constantly showing up on CNN and the like. Perhaps they should be talking to the CDC since they are the experts in pandemic diseases, their spread and rise and fall.

          And then there’s Joe Biden! I think you’re going to need a bigger hysteria about something else.

          Reply
    • Tom Hunter

       /  7th July 2020

      As the Libertarian magazine Reason pointed out:

      Americans’ unwillingness to be governed any further by officials who responded to the pandemic with a series of botched policy initiatives, personal exemptions, and seemingly arbitrary commands to the public is understandable. Why would you take orders from people who seem to have no idea what they’re doing and clearly don’t intend to follow the rules themselves?

      They’re not talking about Trump but the myriad little dictators who govern the states, the worst ones being those of California, NY, Michigan and Minnesota. All Democrats naturally.

      Reply
  5. duperez

     /  7th July 2020

    Black Lives Matter

    The Black Lives Matter movement is just part of a society evolving. All societies evolve with varying facets undergoing change and those happening at different rates. Black lives mattering in itself is an evolution. The trip to where we are has obviously been from the year dot and travelled down history to now.

    In the weekend Māori TV played the acclaimed Movie ’12 Years a Slave.’ While it is harrowing, it is worth the watch. It is based on a true story. Academic research has acknowledged its authenticity as a depiction of how things happened with the usual riders about ‘artistic licence.’

    People have individual reactions to the Black Lives Matter protests on the streets. Those events with all their emotion, righteousness and fury didn’t come out of thin air.
    There is a background.

    The movie is available on demand for the next three and a half weeks. I’d recommend a viewing.

    https://www.maoritelevision.com/movies/12-years-slave

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th July 2020

      The obvious question is when will Maori TV broadcast a programme on Maori slaves? It’s probably more likely to than any of our other channels.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  7th July 2020

        If you watch the movie you’ll think it likely they won’t have the resources for such a production. ($NZ35 million back in 2012-13)

        Of course just having people sitting in the studio talking about it would be do-able. Slavery was obviously different in all the places it happened .
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12241815

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  7th July 2020

          “If you watch the movie you’ll think it likely they won’t have the resources for such a production.”

          Is this because they are oppressed?

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  7th July 2020

            No, it’s because a massive amount of money is involved. I get the feeling if $40 million was to be spent on a movie you’d say it was a waste of money but if $40 million was to be spent on a movie which made Maori out to be bad, you’d be pleased for the Government to sponsor it.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  7th July 2020

              I find it fascinating that your idea of the only place money can be found is from the government.

              12 years a slave was not the result of a government welfare program.

              Why do you assume Maori are dependent entirely on government handouts? Are you racist?

            • duperez

               /  7th July 2020

              I find it fascinating you’d draw such a stupid conclusion. Just kidding, I don’t. I’m not surprised and the assumption about handouts either. That’s just as gormless.

      • Corky

         /  7th July 2020

        Or historical Maori infanticide( not the modern version). In olden times Maori had no use for substandard babies. In a society governed by ”might is right,” social services were a couple of centuries away.

        Reply
        • duperez

           /  7th July 2020

          Practices in early New Zealand were probably similar to those of our Great Western cultures I suppose.

          “In the Roman Empire and among some Barbarian tribes, infanticide was an accepted practice. A newborn would be placed before its father; if he picked the child up, it would be considered a member of the family and its life would begin. However, if the family was on the edge of starvation, if the child was deformed, or if the father had any other reasons not to accept it, the infant would be abandoned to die of exposure, with rescue a real, if not always likely, possibility.”

          And: https://www.en.w3ki.com/wiki/Infanticide

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  7th July 2020

            The difference is Maori history is being sanitised. I would dare you to raise that point in a public forum. I wouldn’t. You’d recieve the bash and your korero would be all over the internet.

            Also, old people would traditionally wander off and die if they considered they were becoming a burden to the whanau. I had an elderly relative who did this in the 60s as the last of the staunch old ways died out.

            Reply
            • duperez

               /  7th July 2020

              I have no need to raise it. What would my motivation be compared to, say yours?

    • Pink David

       /  7th July 2020

      “The Black Lives Matter movement is just part of a society evolving. ”

      Weekend death toll from Chicago is 15, 79 shot. Includes a 7yo and 14yo.

      https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/7/5/21313171/fourth-july-weekend-chicago-gun-violence-homicide-shooting

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  7th July 2020

        All societies are continuously evolving. That is a fact. All events everywhere are part of that including Chicago. All events which happened in the 1840s and 1850s were part of that evolving. The events of back then contribute to the shape of the world now.

        It is reasonable to postulate that the way African Americans were treated in the 1800s contributed to their part in their society now.

        Millions of people were downtrodden and treated like shit. The social and economic effects live on. Treat people like dogs and get surprised when they act like dogs and complain about the way they’re acting?

        Funny how all this things happen in the Land of the Free with the great Constitution, you know “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.” Funny too in the land of the great capitalist system where everyone can use whatever they can to advance their economic situation. But not uppity Colin Kaepernick who’s made a killing.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  7th July 2020

          ” But not uppity Colin Kaepernick who’s made a killing.”

          But you see this heartens me. Colin is a capitalist. He has identifies a market to exploit and gone for it.

          Al Sharpton has made millions milking white guilt on the back of racist hoaxes.
          It’s a well trod path.

          Reply
    • Pink David

       /  7th July 2020

      Don’t worry about that other post. BLM means society is evolving. Don’t worry about the dead black people, be happy Colin Kaepernick has turned being the worst quarterback in the NFL into a gold mine. He a victim of racial oppression don’t forget, not those dead people in Chicago.

      It’s all about Colin.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  7th July 2020

      This site contains graphic details of Colin racial oppression. Do not open if you are sensitive.

      ” Colin Kaepernick has more than 400 pairs of shoes.”

      “There’s quite a few things in my closet that are pretty expensive, but nothing too ridiculous. The brand isn’t necessarily important.”

      Just note, Colin’s idea of ridiculous is more than you earn in a year.

      https://sf.racked.com/2014/9/24/7575501/colin-kaepernick-has-two-rooms-of-shoes-that-arent-his-closet

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  7th July 2020

        Do you think that he shouldn’t speak out for BLM because he’s not poor?

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  7th July 2020

          He is speaking out for BLM to get richer. I respect the business model.

          There is no money in speaking out and doing things about black on black crime in Chicago.

          Reply
  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  7th July 2020

    Twyford’s trail of destruction lengthens:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346001

    Has any Minister ever been so utterly hopeless?

    Reply
    • He’s about as much use as a rubber corkscrew.

      When did reporters start calling Ministers ‘Minister Bloggs’ ? This sounds very odd and can’t be correct. It’s like calling someone Teacher Bloggs or Manager Bloggs.I’d say Joe Bloggs, Minister of…..and then refer to him as Mr Bloggs.

      Reply
  7. duperez

     /  7th July 2020

    National MP Hamish Walker admits involvement in Covid-19 patient data leak

    Let’s get it clear. We’ve had the story about Kurt Taogaga, ranked 68th on the Labour list and was not needed because of his indiscretions. He’s gone. From a position where only a miracle would have seen him get near being in Parliament.

    National MP Hamish Walker admits involvement in Covid-19 patient data leak and he is an MP and in the election most likely to have a big majority.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300051710/national-mp-hamish-walker-admits-involvement-in-covid19-patient-data-leak

    Shall I put the cotton wool in the ears to kill the clamour of those calling for his resignation?

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th July 2020

      Probably. Should be deafening by tomorrow.

      His crime seems to have been doing this behind Muller’s back. Not smart unless he is out to sabotage him.

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  7th July 2020

      Now I see the Herald version of events.

      Fancy that: “Walker, who is MP for Clutha-Southland, said that he had passed the details to the media after receiving them from former National Party president Michelle Boag.”

      I guess that what was made out by some to be the most serious breach of trust possible when the initial story broke will now be just a ‘mistake.’

      The ‘heinous’ thing that happened won’t be so important after all. The good thing is that other parties can now expect that what was one considered to be serious and beyond belief is now just another thing, business as usual. Leak what you like.

      The casual way the Peters’ private information was handled suggested that. Information that should have resided with some clerk in some office passed into and up the food chain.

      Reply
  8. Reply
    • Pink David

       /  7th July 2020

      July 5th

      “The state reported that there still are 13,307 available staffed hospital beds, including 1,203 available staffed ICU beds statewide,”

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  7th July 2020

      “Angela Prather is the director of marketing and public relations at Val Verde Regional Medical Center in Del Rio.

      “We are not at capacity and are still getting patients out to San Antonio,” Prather said.

      She said the hospital hadn’t even reached 50% capacity in its ICU and had not activated surge capacity yet. She said 53 beds were available as of Friday.”

      “San Antonio also has additional surge capacity for a crisis situation, including a currently unused site at Freeman Coliseum.”

      An entire fucking spare 250-bed hospital.

      Reply
  9. Pink David

     /  7th July 2020

    Panic porn.

    Reply

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