Open Forum Wednesday

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78 Comments

  1. Pink David

     /  8th July 2020

    From the UK;

    “”More children died after failing to get timely medical treatment during lockdown than lost their lives because of coronavirus, new research by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) suggests””

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/25/nhs-treatment-delays-linked-child-deaths-coronavirus/

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  8th July 2020

      “There were almost 10,000 unexplained extra deaths among people with dementia in England and Wales in April, according to official figures that have prompted alarm about the severe impact of social isolation on people with the condition.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/covid-19-causing-10000-dementia-deaths-beyond-infections-research-says

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  8th July 2020

        After watching Mr Muller [deleted, leave those descriptions out of it] talking to John Campbell, I feel Hamish Walkers future is this…no future with National,and dont let the door hit your bum on the way out,Hamish, to much lack of judgment for Mr Muller.

        Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  8th July 2020

          Well they have all gone Walker,has Walked and Boag,has stuffed her old age activities, Muller like Ardern suggested move on, to the two idiots and it was,and happened

          Reply
      • Duker

         /  8th July 2020

        Whats the medical test for ‘death from dementia’ ?
        There isnt one of course, just they previously diagnosed with that illness and when died at home thats what the GP wrote on death certificate. It could be pneumonia but a GP isnt going to test for that at home or small seniors home.
        If they went into hospital they would have done test for covid or flu and death certificate would say so.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  8th July 2020

          Thank you for your input Dr Duker. I’ve very glad to know the only cause of death currently in the world is Covid.

          All the people who did not get cancer treatment will also die from Covid too.

          https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52985446

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  8th July 2020

          “There isnt one of course, just they previously diagnosed with that illness and when died at home thats what the GP wrote on death”

          Dr Duker, just for fun.

          Do you know the process for signing off a death certificate in the UK is? Did you know it was changed a couple of months ago to, ahem, ‘streamline’ it. Do you know what that change was? No googling now….

          What makes you think this is not happening with Covid. Just put Covid on the cert and no one questions it. There was a guy in the past who was quite good at that.

          Reply
    • Duker

       /  8th July 2020

      So how much is “more” children
      The story says:
      Six children under the age of 16 have died from Covid-19 in Britain since the pandemic began, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
      However, seeking medical help too late was a contributory factor in the deaths of nine children in paediatric care new analysis has found, with the figure likely to be higher.”

      Hmm 3 more ?. This is absurdly low number to base it on ( medical care various enormously in the results of the treatment) and its only a ‘contributory’ factor.
      People die all the time because they left it too late , and the other side , they die in spite of seeking medical care but are mis diagnosed and sent home without treatment.
      So thats a fail. Much more numbers needed . Always a point to check with any medical claims, how many actually were involved , ignore the % as the small sample size can mean high flutuations even from different hospitals or regions of the country .
      You will get much better care at Auckland Starship Childrens Hospital than say Rotorua. Its just the way it is.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  8th July 2020

        “Hmm 3 more ?. This is absurdly low number to base it on”

        You are quite right. The number of children dying with Covid is absurdly low. Lighting strikes kill more.

        Why was everyone locked in their homes again?

        Reply
    • As 300+ more over 80s than usual (Official Information Office) died just before and during our lockdown, I wonder what the real death toll caused by the lockdown here was.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  8th July 2020

        We won’t ever really know. We will see an increase in mortality for various groups, but there never will be a scoreboard on the nightly news the way Covid is being done.

        Then of course, experts like Dr Duker will claim they all died of Covid regardless of any facts.

        Reply
        • 306 seems a high number, when one thinks that this was 306 more than the usual number.

          Needless to say that these numbers will not be broadcast, though.

          Reply
    • Alan Foster

       /  8th July 2020

      This is because of the tough decision that Boris had to make at the time – not any easy decision to make

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  8th July 2020

        Quite correct. It is not an easy decision to make.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  8th July 2020

          I wonder if going to I.C.U with C19 has any bearing on his decision making these days.

          Reply
  2. David

     /  8th July 2020

    Just watched Muller on Duncan Garner and I have to say, and I am not a fan, I was impressed. Muller found out and was pretty clear he wanted the info out there for the enquiry and there was a slight delay when he Walker/Boag called in the lawyers and he had to get legal clarification for his position.
    He has written to Nationals board that he has no confidence in Walker and they meet today. I would say he has dealt quite well with the appalling situation that landed at his feet.
    A lesson in decisive leadership.

    Reply
    • David

       /  8th July 2020

      Luke Malpass has gone off half cocked without having all the information on Stuff and now looks too wedded to Ardern to be in journalism, should have stuck to facts and not gleefully given his opinion.
      Stuff in a rare move have opened up his column for comments no doubt hoping for a pile on and a chance to increase their chances for the government subsidy for the media.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  8th July 2020

        ‘Muller claims that to his knowledge no other National MP knew about the leak and this was the actions of a rogue National MP and a rogue former President of the National Party’

        Ahhh the old ‘rogue’ defence favoured by errant bankers and..right wing politicians.

        In the NZ National Party today a ‘rogue’ M.P is one who is a reasonable human being with principles and moral virtue.
        Alas they are in short…supply.

        Reply
    • A lesson in dirty politics – again. Seems like it’s now a central plank in National’s election platform.

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  8th July 2020

      A lesson in decisive leadership….after rolling Bridges…a lesson in divisive…leadership!

      Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  8th July 2020

    National’s embarrassement of talent continues….ex Nat M.P …facing 7 years.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122064981/former-national-mp-jamilee-ross-fraud-charges-move-to-high-court

    Reply
  4. Deaths from COVID-19 in America are up overnight:

    785 US deaths registered on Worldometer overnight, with 115 deaths in Arizona alone. Some of that will be the delay in posting weekend deaths but 115 is way way above previous daily totals for AZ.

    Deaths are showing as 705 on https://www.statnews.com/feature/coronavirus/covid-19-tracker/ but their last update was a day ago.

    The warning signs have been there and now they increasingly point to a surge in COVID-19 deaths in America, starting with Florida, Arizona, Texas, and California.

    America has less than 4% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s deaths from COVID. Such an avoidable tragedy.

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  8th July 2020

      183 died in Peru yesterday.

      Why didn’t they avoid this tragedy. They did everything you prescribed.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  8th July 2020

        Would they still have died with what you…prescribe….or do people just die wealthier following your advice?

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  8th July 2020

          Blazer, I know this will come as a shock to you, but none of us get out of this alive.

          Trick question; How many people died as a result of the lockdown imposed on the people in Peru?

          We know the lockdown in the UK killed at least 30,000 just from current data. Very possible the number will climb to 6 figures. What butchers bill did you expect?

          Reply
          • I’d like to know what it was here. The 306 more than usual 80+s who died then could be a blip, but it’s a very large one.

            Reply
          • Blazer

             /  8th July 2020

            ‘We know the lockdown in the UK killed at least 30,000 ‘…..b/s.

            Lockdown as a cause, is a reflection of how weak your stance is.

            Reply
          • Alan Foster

             /  8th July 2020

            Absolute rubbish – you’re just scaremongering

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  8th July 2020

              “Absolute rubbish – you’re just scaremongering”

              It’s in the past, not the future.

      • Alan Foster

         /  8th July 2020

        Anyone with half a brain can see that they didn’t do the procedure correctly like we did in NZ

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  8th July 2020

          “Anyone with half a brain can see that they didn’t do the procedure correctly like we did in NZ”

          Show how you ‘see’ this. The data we do have shows they did an equal job to NZ in terms of movement for at least the first 6 weeks.

          Reply
          • Alan Foster

             /  8th July 2020

            If they’d followed what NZ did, they wouldn’t have anywhere near the death rate.
            They must have had contact to catch the virus eh? Also see my post on Sweden – how they cocked up with no financial benefit

            Reply
    • Tom Hunter

       /  8th July 2020

      Since you’re apparently determined to keep up this hysteria as yet another weapon you think can be used against Trump (Federal nation remember), I guess I’ll just keep putting this chart up.

      Reply
      • The numbers are the numbers:

        785 US deaths registered on Worldometer overnight, with 115 deaths in Arizona alone.

        America has less than 4% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s deaths from COVID.

        How’s about you climb off your high horse and admit that COVID is still actively killing people in America, and is still far from being done and dusted.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  8th July 2020

          “America has less than 4% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s deaths from COVID.”

          Yes. This is very interesting. The more important question is why?

          Reply
      • Tom Hunter

         /  8th July 2020

        You wrote almost exactly the same comment before.

        This virus will go on killing people for months yet, just like the flu and multiple other diseases. That doesn’t make it a pandemic, or even an epidemic. And it sure as hell should not force these states to go lockdown, even though that’s what Trump’s opponents are gagging for.

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  8th July 2020

          ROFL
          Try googling the meaning of epidemic and pandemic .
          Here because you know GOP the party of dumb .
          epidemic
          /ɛpɪˈdɛmɪk/
          noun
          a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time.
          pandemic
          /panˈdɛmɪk/
          adjective
          (of a disease) prevalent over a whole country or the world.

          Here is a new word.
          pandumbic
          The epidemic in loss in IQ of Trump of supporters between 2016 and now.

          FWIW
          July 7 world meter is now showing 993 deaths in the USA .
          Most deaths any date since June 10.
          As expected by the sane on here the death rate is beginner to spike.
          But I am sure our trumpwits can find a weekend number to gibber about .
          Or they could go back to moaning about Hillary and posting dribble about the wall and Muslims.

          Reply
          • Tom Hunter

             /  8th July 2020

            As expected by the sane on here the death rate is beginner to spike.

            And a few days ago there were several days where it was the lowest it had been in months. Normally Griff is death on cherry-picking data but when it comes to bashing the USA and Trump anything goes.

            Readers can also entertain themselves about Griff’s ,massive powers of prediction based on MAAAATHHH here on Trump election day 2016. My faves include the following:

            3:59 – Trumpies putting money on their hero to win despite the reality for his chances.

            And then a few hours later when the terrible truth dawned..

            7:10pm
            This will cost all of you and me money .
            We have USA idiocracy.
            The dollar has fallen more than 3% against the Japanese currency.
            28m ago Australian stock market closes down 1.92%
            55m ago Japanese Nikkei plunges 900 points
            1h ago Wall Street futures hit rock bottom of -5%, Nikkei down 5.39%
            2h ago Odds of US interest rate rise slashed by 50% – Bloomberg
            2h ago ‘Bigger than Brexit’
            3h ago Mexican peso hammered
            4h ago Stocks and US dollar are tanking

            God, you can see his hair on fire from here. Yes, sports fans. When Griff has his teeth in an issue involving people and causes he hates and math it’s all go for DOOOOOOMMMMMM!

            Still hoping all those people in Houston die in the next hurricane Griff? You know, because of Trump pulling the US out of the Paris Accord.

            That’s ok. Still luv ya style.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  8th July 2020

              Why are the numbers rising now , and much more widely than earlier when the deaths and cases were concentrated in 6-8 states including NY

            • Pink David

               /  8th July 2020

              That’s a good question. A couple of options. There will be more.

              – Seasonality. The Northern US has a different flu season to southern states, 3 months separate this in a typical flu season.
              -. Northern state shuffled Covid infected patients to rest homes, Southern States did not. This is a major source of the deaths in NY etc.
              – Timing, Pacific states had Covid prior to the test, Atlantic states got it later.

              Currently, the strictest lockdowns are co-related with the most death.

  5. Pink David

     /  8th July 2020

    Interesting experiment time.

    Reply
  6. David

     /  8th July 2020

    More staggering incompetence from this government, new minister and new defence force boss in charge and they let someone pop out for a smoke with Covid when the security fencing was half done and no one was watching properly.
    The Indian gentleman then decide he would go shopping, wander around central Auckland and then amble back to the hotel. Revoke his citizenship and put him on a slow boat to Delhi.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346479

    We have a couple of nights booked in the sky city grand tomorrow so I hope they get their shit together, I certainly dont want to be bumping into rogue Indians ignoring the law.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  8th July 2020

      ‘ Revoke his citizenship’…I am in favour of new legislation that enables this …quite a number of candidates for losing the privelege of citizenship here.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  8th July 2020

      I don’t think you can realistically blame Hipkins or Webb for the actions of this abscondee. The cunning blighter is said to have made a spur of the moment decision to escape while contractors were erecting the fence following the previous case of an escapee.

      The Managed Isolation facilities aren’t supposed to be prisons. Idiots like these two are making it necessary to consider making them more like one. It doesn’t help that the only people who can restrain someone like this are the police, & it seems from the article that now consideration has to be given to increasing police presence at them.

      I don’t think it would matter who was in government. These sorts of situations are onviously going to occur & it’s only when they happen that steps have to be taken to tighten security even further.

      Reply
      • David

         /  8th July 2020

        I think we can rightly blame Hipkins and Webb, there was an escape 4 days ago which was why the fencing was going up it seems fairly straightforward to keep watch on a smoker. I would imagine the security guard was looking at his phone in a disinterested minimum wage situation instead of an alert member of the military.
        Surely while the fence was semi erected an extra amount of vigilance should be expected especially given the headlines of what has just happened in Victoria.

        Reply
        • The COL and PM were quick to praise themselves when we had 0 cases; why do they not want to take the blame for all the stuff-ups ?

          They can’t have it both ways.

          Reply
      • duperez

         /  8th July 2020

        Of course it is a matter of who is in Government. A tough National would have had everyone locked in rooms no-one allowed out at all. All those quarantined would be wearing electronic bracelets. Armed guards would be on every door with instructions of shooting to kill anyone who looked like they were about to get away.

        No person in lockup, absolutely none regardless of who they are is to be trusted in any way at all for one second.

        Hipkins should resign, Woods should resign, Arden should resign, the ‘guard’ should be sacked and the escapee should be locked up. If prisoners get a vote he’ll vote Labour knowing that under National no-one would get the chance to escape like he did.

        The other way to rectify the situation is to get all of us sitting computer tapping to take those front line jobs or get our kids and friends and their families to do all these jobs. We’d know for sure then there’d be no mistakes.

        There you go, sorted.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  8th July 2020

          Muller wasnt keeping an eye on his own caucus and then found one went rogue…but its all right as Muller is now looking at roads instead

          Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  8th July 2020

      Nothing like a casual bit of rightwing racism,David you should have quoted David Seymour,, the patron saint of everything rightwing, being a gun nutter helps

      Reply
      • David

         /  8th July 2020

        Its not racism if he was a white american I would be deporting him as well, should apply to all these permanent residents that this is the rule and if you break it we are sending you back to whence you came and revoking the extraordinary privilige it is to live in NZ.
        Keep these people focused given the consequences from this fools actions. There are 50 minutes of unexplained activity from him now how do we know he didnt hire some company ? I would have him in a cell and asking some damn sharp questions and checking all CCTV footage but what do we do, we send him back to the same hotel he just escaped from in the hope that he is not a total f…wit and pull the same stunt again.

        Reply
      • Lurch, the things you say about David Seymour are lies, as you would know if you bothered to do a little research instead of spreading ridiculous and scurrilous distortions about him and ACT.

        Reply
      • Lurch, the last ACT leader is married to an African woman. Richard Prebble’s wife is not white; I forget what she is, Maori or Pasifika. Rodney Hide was married to a Chinese woman and has a Chinese-Kiwi son.There are many races in ACT. But what does the truth matter to a rabid leftie ? It’s easier to slander people without looking anything up to get the facts.

        Anyone who knows anything about ACT will know that what you say about them and guns is arrant nonsense without a word of truth in it.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  8th July 2020

          Who is the present ACT leader…did Whyte…shoot thru?

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  8th July 2020

          Hide ditched his wife and son for a much younger woman , old enough to be his daughter once he had the baubles of power….now he doesn’t I wonder if she still has stars in her eyes

          Reply
    • Corky

       /  8th July 2020

      I would love to know the nationalities of these escapees – whether they are native NZers or naturalised citizens

      Reply
      • David

         /  8th July 2020

        He just has residency apparently.

        Reply
      • duperez

         /  8th July 2020

        Did you watch the movie I linked to yesterday Corky? I wonder which character you would see yourself as.
        https://www.maoritelevision.com/movies/12-years-slave

        Reply
      • The two who were let go with the question ‘Are you okay?’ as a test are Kiwis/

        I would be surprised if the smoker was an Indian woman; they don’t seem to smoke much.

        Reply
      • Patu

         /  8th July 2020

        The supermarket selfie guy was Indian. He should be named, shamed, then sent back to his real home IMO

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  8th July 2020

          NZ is his new ‘real’ home ..apparently.

          A friend has an acquaintance who was relieved to get back from Brazil recently….he was most impressed….stayed in a 5 star hotel for a while and had 7k waiting in his bank a/c.
          I love this country…were his sentiments.

          Reply
  7. Corky

     /  8th July 2020

    China starts dealing to Hong Kong.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53296810

    Can you imagine this reportage on One News? Lol…I can’t. But if what is said on this clip is correct, China is courting conflict…and if the fugg with Russia they’ll get it. Why China is provoking Russian over land that was legally passed to Russia is beyond me.

    Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  8th July 2020

      China is either supremely confident it can wage simultaneous conflicts with Russia, China, Vietnam, The Philippines, Taiwan (backed by the USA), Honk Kong, India and possibly Japan.

      Or sabre rattling to see who will blink first.

      I think these are distraction are for internal Chinese consumption to placate a discontent populace that is seeing an economic retraction (as they stop being the manufacturing capital of the world due to contractions in the world economy).

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  8th July 2020

        You may be right, Gerrit. Chinese social media is scathing of China not honouring those Chinese soldiers killed at the border conflict with Indian. Conversely much was made of the way India honoured their fallen. Maybe there is more social discontent brewing under the surface then China lets on. Bring it on I say…China is a rotten nasty country, both to its own and others.

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  8th July 2020

        The CCP have worked Trump out. Until now America has been the bulwark against chinese and Russian hegemony.

        They are confident Trump will put Americas interests first and to hell with what happens outside the borders. Except for the few that have remained loyal he ain’t interested.

        Reply
    • Duker

       /  8th July 2020

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking
      They got the Kowloon back from the British but not Outer Manchuria from the Russians
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Manchuria

      The real issue now is China gave up its claims here
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Sino-Russian_Treaty_of_Friendship

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  8th July 2020

        Interesting. I can’t find a precise numbered English translation text of the actual Treaty, but it has a 20 year validity:

        “The treaty has a validity period of 20 years, and will be automatically extended if neither party notifies the other its intention to terminate the treaty one year before its expiration.”

        The time period is up next year. Maybe they want something the Russians aren’t giving them?

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  8th July 2020

          New President of China who wants to repudiate ALL previous treaties that gave up territory for what ever reason.
          Its funny that Russia is involved with border war with Ukraine , NZ follows EU sanctions.
          China has border war with India ( going back to the 60s) and NZ does nothing
          Same as Turkey invading Commonwealth country Cyprus in 70s. EU and US do nothing along with NZ.

          Reply

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