Open Forum Thursday

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88 Comments

  1. David

     /  9th July 2020

    Anyone seen the PM, havent seen hide nor hair of her.

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  9th July 2020

      Probably a bit busy running the country.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  9th July 2020

        Or…she may have just woken up to the fact that winning the election will be a poison chalice that’ll eventually decimate Labour. National will lose nothing in reality by losing this election.
        Yep, I would say she’s in counselling.

        Reply
      • Lurch, with all the stuff-ups about the quarantine (people walking away untested with the permission of the powers that be before their isolation time was up, people escaping, people sent on their way to drive the length of the country and so on), she may well want to avoid awkward questions. Walking past reporters and ignoring them looks rude and arrogant; she did this at Queenstown (I think it was Queenstown) and acted as if they were invisible.

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  9th July 2020

      The P.M does not need to gloat or….have a lie down and a …cup of tea!Bol.

      Reply
      • She may be making another cake and propping it up with tins of lentils for the photos.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  9th July 2020

          Your deep envy of her is understandable….she is intelligent,well presented,likeable,popular,successful,erudite, happily married and a mother.

          [Deleted – that’s personal abuse. PG]

          Reply
          • I am not envious of her at all; she’s as shallow as a soup bowl. You may consider skintight polyester ‘satin’ pyjamas and unbrushed hair well-presented, of course. I will admit that she seems to have taken lessons lately about how to dress and do her hair.

            You know nothing about me, so your comments are based upon your usual spite and lies. You don’t know what I look like; your remarks are totally and gratuitously offensive. .

            She’s hardly erudite and she’s not married. I was married to a very intelligent & learned man (a friend of Oxford dons, if you know what those are), not someone who films himself fishing for a living and doesn’t even seem to be doing that at the moment..

            If you saw the bookcases in this house, you would know what rubbish you are talking. One of my relations won a Nobel Prize for literature. I can read with ease several languages of the many I have learned. Unerudite & unintelligent? I think not. One doesn’t become an MA Hons (1st Class) or be chosen from thousands of entrants to be on Mastermind if one is not erudite.

            Only you would be despicable enough to sneer at someone for being ‘unmarried’ when their husband died of cancer and whose only child died, so is not a mother. You are disgusting.

            What are your great achievements, pray tell ?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  9th July 2020

              My achievements are many and varied.
              One of my rules is to totallydisregard shameless,braggards who espouse their fantasies and delusions in the cyber world.

            • duperez

               /  9th July 2020

              What we know about anyone on here is probably only known from what is presented in these forums by statement or style.

              I could have all the books and grand circumstances, know and live with and among all the ‘most worthy’ and yet be most lacking and sad.

              Does having a judgemental manner stand one in good stead when a teacher?

            • I have never claimed to live in grand circumstances; quite the opposite; I live in a cottage which is far from grand, and have said so.

              Nor have I claimed to ‘live among the most worthy’, That is another fabrication. Why would I ? I do know some eminent people, but have never claimed to live among them. Is this another Blazer invention?

              Blazer has consistently lied about me and accused me of lying about my life, as well as sneering and making vicious putdowns. He claims to know what I look like among other things; he mocked my widowed status as being ‘unmarried’, knowing that my husband died of cancer. That is disgusting.

              According to him,. I am a thief & shoplifter because I kept something worth $1 that I found outside a shop. He accused me of stealing shop trolleys; a patent absurdity apart from being a lie, as I live on a very hilly road and a taxi ride is $6-7. Who’d steal a shopping trolley and push it uphill to save that amount? Not to mention the risk of being caught.

              Not once has he shown any evidence for the things he supposedly knows, although it should be easy enough if he really knows anything about me. His lies are constant and gratuitous. They are defamatory and he hides behind a pseudonym. Calling someone a liar when they are not one is unacceptable. If he knows these things, he should say how he knows them.If he doesn’t, (and he can’t, of course) he should shut up and stop calling someone a liar when he doesn’t even know them. He has no idea about my background; he doesn’t even know my real name, unlike at least three occasional YNZ posters who have been to my house and knew my husband.

              If he knows me, let him [deleted – please don’t encourage any attempts at identifying anyone using a pseudonym here, that’s a direction fraught with problems and I don’t want to head there. PG]

          • You don’t know me, so everything that you have just said is a lie based on nothing at all. Nothing that I have said is untrue. You don’t want to believe it for reasons of your own.

            Your vicious personal abuse was deleted, which should tell you something.

            I could prove that I was on Mastermind and that I am an MA (Hons) and the rest. I won’t because I don’t want my identity known. Your lying sneers don’t change the truth.

            Someone who mocks a stranger’s tragedies as you do is beneath contempt. Being vicious and spiteful isn’t an achievement; it’s a handicap.

            Reply
            • I wasn’t asking for an identification like a full name (Heaven forbid) . just something small that would mean nothing to anyone else but would show that he knew me !

            • The problem with that sort of thing is that small things can lead to big messy exchanges.

              It’s simplest and fairest to just not allow any level of identifying or trying to identify people using pseudonyms.

              I do what I can to limit snarky, petty and nasty personal comments and attacks. Some are already on notice that persistence in trying to beat this will result in me taking action, usually putting them into auto-moderation so I don’t have to waste time dealing with real time crap.

  2. Gerrit

     /  9th July 2020

    Must be election time as judged by the pile in from Duker and Blazer on any comment not in support of Ardern and her [deleted, use proper names].

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  9th July 2020

      By their fruit they will be known, Gerrit.😄.

      Reply
    • Gerrit, there must be a brisk trade in Bile Beans at the moment.

      Were you thinking of the marvellous expression ‘C…..’s K……’ ?

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  9th July 2020

      Ahh no.
      I didnt read your comment at all, it was to the serial fake news spreader and his falsehoods

      Reply
  3. Tom Hunter

     /  9th July 2020

    WRT [deleted, use proper names] it’s always interesting to see what other countries have been up instead of just the usual group of Europe, USA, Japan, China, Korea and Taiwan.

    Israel apparently had a lockdown that sounds awfully similar to our own, including 14 day isolations for all returning travellers and most businesses closed, plus all schools and so forth. And as with NZ it worked, given that they have land borders that we do not:

    It reports only 37 deaths per one million people (342 deaths in total).

    By early May, there were fewer than 20 reported coronavirus infections per day. Deaths from the virus exceeded five on only one day during the entire month.

    Not bad at all. But sooner or later they had to open up or have their economy die. And the result…

    But in late June, Israel began to experience a second wave of the virus. The number of new cases per day reached 1,000 at the end of the month. Yesterday, there were 1,500 new reported cases. The daily death count also began to climb, as might be expected. Yesterday, there were eight reported deaths from the virus, the most since mid-April.

    It seems that their senior public health person, Professor Sigal Sadetsky, has resigned in protest at the re-openings, saying, among other things:

    However, in the absence of conformity to corona regulations, schools and kindergartens become fertile grounds for infection.

    So now Israel is going for Lockdown 2.0, although not as strict as 1.0. But this is the fate of all nations – including New Zealand – in the wake of a virus that is not going to be “eliminated” or “eradicated”. Here’s one of the one of the key points made by the Swedish epidemiologist Professor Johan Giesecke::

    >Getting out of the lockdowns will be the big challenge since the question is around which restrictions can be lifted, followed by watching for upticks in deaths in each case, with increases met by what? Reinstating the restriction?

    >
    Welcome to Israel’s world.

    And New Zealand’s, eventually. We can’t be the Bubble Boy of the world forever. And when we do open up again….

    Reply
    • Gerrit

       /  9th July 2020

      The other side of the coin is that people will not live in any form of lockdown for an extended period of time. The Melbourne experiment of another six week lockdown is going to be interesting in how long it will hold.

      Good indication of how effective a second (or heaven forbid a third and fourth) lockdown is.

      Biggest problem will be if the virus breaks out in the lock down enforcers ranks. Who will police the lockdown? No one and the virus will spread even faster.

      One thing is for sure you cannot be in an enforced (by force) bubble for ever more. Somehow soon the virus will need to do its worse and the Darwin selection of the fittest and strongest will survive, to restart the world. Nature’s (or the Chinese) culling of an over crowded planet. Global climate change fixed at the same time.

      Reply
      • David

         /  9th July 2020

        The hospitalizations arnt hugely spiking and the death rate is still declining and given the surge started 3 plus weeks ago a week after the protests started there is little coverage on why.
        Apparently there is an 18 day period between diagnosis and death so we are way past that.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  9th July 2020

          Death rates arent declining when you look at US state by state numbers
          Daily death – smoothed, actual numbers not predicted as these are past events
          Alabama
          May 13 13 per day ( previous peak)
          Jun 1 9.5
          July 1 14
          Arizona
          May 12 21 per day ( previous peak)
          Jun 1 16
          July 1 37

          California
          April 17 76 per day previous peak
          Jun 1 64
          Jul 2 71
          https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california
          Florida has 50 per day Jul 03, previous peak was April 18, 48 per day.
          As we know rising after falling to around 31 per day

          Where do get your half truths from ,asking for a friend. Ive never come across such a fake news machine that you ‘eject out’ constantly

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            “Arizona
            May 12 21 per day ( previous peak)
            Jun 1 16
            July 1 37”

            Why stop at July 1? They have data right up to the 6th.

            BTW July 1 the number was 18. Your data is incorrect.
            Double BTW, June 1 it was 22. May 12th it was 15. All your data is total shit.

            Stop looking at a computer model and thinking it worth anything. You can tell it’s a computer model because when you go to Arizona and look at May 12 it says 20.75 deaths. July 1 it’s 37.42

            Care to explain 0.42 of a death?

            Actual source data;

            https://www.azdhs.gov/preparedness/epidemiology-disease-control/infectious-disease-epidemiology/covid-19/dashboards/index.php

            Reply
            • Single day numbers don’t mean much.

              Worldometer has numbers up to the 8th (GMT).
              30 June 44 deaths
              1 July 88
              2 July 37
              3 July 31
              4 July 17
              5 July 4
              6 July 1
              7 July 117
              8 July 36

              Obviously 7 July was catching up from a weekend pause in data.

              The chart shows an obvious rising trend: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/

            • Conspiratoor

               /  9th July 2020

              @PG ‘single numbers don’t mean much’

              Aint that the truth

              60,000 Americans die of pneumonia/influenza viruses each year and you are reporting covid deaths down to single digits

            • Covid deaths in the US are over 130,000 in half a year.

            • Pink David

               /  9th July 2020

              “Worldometer ”

              I have linked the actual source data.

              “Obviously 7 July was catching up from a weekend pause in data.”

              The only data that is worth anything is the source which is based on date of death. Not data based on batch record dates.

            • Pink David

               /  9th July 2020

              “Covid deaths in the US are over 130,000 in half a year.”

              Whats a Covid death?

            • It’s what every US state is counting as a death with Covid as a primary cause, and this is not disputed by the president, the Vice President, the White House or the CDC.

              It is likely to be significantly less than the number of deaths that have had Covid involved.

              It also obviously doesn’t include the many more people badly affected by the virus with serious short and at least medium term health problems.

              It only seems to be disputed by a small number of people who seem intent on denying that the Covid-19 pandemic is a major health problem, contrary to how most governments and countries in the world are dealing with it.

            • Pink David

               /  10th July 2020

              “It’s what every US state is counting as a death with Covid as a primary cause, and this is not disputed by the president, the Vice President, the White House or the CDC.”

              This is untrue. You can read the reporting standard here. Anyone who dies with Covid is recorded in the totals. This is also true in the UK, I have posted a number of times the reporting standard.

              Click to access vsrg03-508.pdf

              “It only seems to be disputed by a small number of people who seem intent on denying that the Covid-19 pandemic is a major health problem”

              Where is this denial. It’s a significant health problem.

              “contrary to how most governments and countries in the world are dealing with it.”

              Government are dealing with it in an unprecedented way which is coming at a massive cost in both money and lives out of any proportion to the problem. This action is taking place with exactly no evidence it will be at all effective and as we go on the costs get higher and no effective on Covid is to be seen.

              Sweden, Japan and a few others have been the only adults.

          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            Just a question, why are so many dying in California? They have had the strictest lockdown in the US.

            Is it like Peru, too early
            Or UK, too late?

            Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            Interesting number here too.

            Total deaths with covid without any underlying conditions in Arizona.

            42

            Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            Let’s do Florida!

            23 April with 51 deaths (peak)
            3 July: 30
            7 July: 9

            Steady trend down.

            https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

            Reply
      • Pink David

         /  9th July 2020

        Covid isn’t culling anything, the death rate is microscopic. It’s barely visible in overall mortality. In the worst hit countries it’s exactly on par with the 99/00 flu season and no one much even noticed that.

        The Swedes have it right. They are just at the end of the 4th worst flu season in 30 years.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  9th July 2020

          Any impact on the Swedish economy?

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            Of course. The entire world is getting hit, no one is immune to that. Sweden will see a GDP fall of 5% with debt levels stable. It will be one of the least impacted, much the same as Japan.

            NZ will see a much greater fall in GDP and debt levels will triple over the next 3 years. Have fun paying the bill.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  9th July 2020

              And they say’ predictions are difficult…especially about the..future'(N.Bohrs)

              The world according to Pink David.

        • Duker

           /  9th July 2020

          ‘just at the end of the 4th worst flu season in 30 years.”

          So thats it , unemployment is almost at 10% ( worse than here) economic contraction is expected to be 4.5%, …..just another flu season.
          Flu has had a vaccine for some time, various medications once you have got it.
          Hospitalisms for flu these days are a fraction of the Covid rate, as the population has been exposed to similar strains of flu( still huge risk for rare flu strains when they come back)
          Not much point comparing with 1960 something, when even ventilators were barely used for pneumonia/flu cases then
          Even Covid disease is treated much better now than 3-4 months ago saving many lives

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            “So thats it”

            Yes that is it. That is what you all wet the bed over.

            “Flu has had a vaccine for some time, various medications once you have got it.”

            Sure. And it still kills millions. Flu vaccine’s are not very good.

            “Not much point comparing with 1960 something,”

            I’m not. I’m comparing it to 1990-2020. If I did a search, I would find you comparing it to Spanish Flu. When was that again?

            “Even Covid disease is treated much better now than 3-4 months ago saving many lives”

            Good don’t you think? Less and less to worry about.

            Reply
  4. David

     /  9th July 2020

    Why did the government wait 17 hours to advise NZers of the breach by the Indian guy, is it because they didnt want the privacy breach knocked off the front page. Why did Hipkins say the supermarket had been shut down for a deep clean when it hadnt and the health department said it didnt have to.
    Why isnt this guys photo in the media so NZers who might have actually been in contact with him during the 50 minutes that are unaccounted for so they can ensure their safety.
    Why the hell is it always the guilty who get the privacy when the interests of the population who have done nothing wrong come second.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  9th July 2020

      The Supermarket said it was closed
      “In a statement, Countdown said the supermarket closed for cleaning at 8.15am today and will reopen tomorrow at 7am.”

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420786/countdown-shoppers-react-to-isolation-escapee-this-is-just-not-ethical

      [Deleted – you know not to make accusations like that here. PG]

      Reply
    • To be fair, David, one bloke in a mask looks much like another. He didn’t go near anyone.

      The PM is conspicuous by her absence when it comes to being asked awkward questions. Being a leader doesn’t make her unaccountable as she seems to imagine; she more or less said so. I’d say it meant the opposite, if a school has major problems, the principal is the one who has to answer the Please Explain. She can’t have it both ways and keep saying ‘I was unaware of that.’ as an excuse. She should be aware as PM. Look at the sex scandal that she was unaware of when it had been in and on the news for almost a fortnight.

      Reply
  5. duperez

     /  9th July 2020

    You have to admit though that if she’s in the news people are complaining that she should be doing real work not PR and if she isn’t in the news some go into melt down like they’re missing their mummy.
    Turn problems into challenges. Work out, visualise, what she’d have been saying about Boag/Walker. Same for the quarantine walker and the slack security workers.
    Consider what she would have said, the tones and inflections, the body language, what she was wearing and then pick which aspects to criticise first.
    Get stuck in, fill ya boots, go for it. (Don’t forget the ‘what wasn’t said’ department.)
    Then sit back replete with, ‘Ah, mum’s back, I missed her so.’

    Reply
    • No, I think that people have the right to expect that someone who refers to herself as a perfectionist leader should be there when things go wrong as well as when they are going well and not weasel out by ignoring questions and walking past reporters.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  9th July 2020

        I wrote a reply to a post earlier in the discussion but changed my mind about posting it. Then I got down this far and submitted it.

        On my office wall there used to be a list of all the great things great achievers had done. Along with it was a list of heinous things extremely well educated people had done and caused. Their intelligence, education and circumstances did not see their contributions to the world being any less diabolical and hideous.

        Good for you for all your achievements. Quoting them however cannot disguise a clearly observable churlishness and vitriol over a period directed at Ardern. She’s just a woman doing a job. It’s probably quite a daunting and challenging job. She’s doing it in an environment where some are wanting her to fail, hoping she’ll fail and waiting for her to fail.

        Her having the job clearly sticks in the craw of numbers of people for different reasons. I believe some of that is jealousy. How dare a mere country girl have that job – Waikato farmer. How dare an unqualified ordinary person be in a position like that, I’m a lot more qualified and classy than her – successful businesswoman. “And at least I know how to dress properly.”
        How dare an upstart kid like that can get to be PM – older Remuera woman who’s lived a real woman’s life, the traditional proper woman’s life and now can only phone Newstalkzb to bitch.

        If Steven Joyce ignored questions and walked past reporters he was tough and showing them who was in charge. If he stopped and poured out screeds of convoluted nonsensical crap that bemused the journos he was displaying he knew much more than them.

        Get over it.

        Reply
        • Male MPs and PMs tend, I think, to be vilified more than women do. People are still casting it up at Gerry Brownlee about the airport incident. David Clark’s bike ride was within the rules for being local exercise…until he did it. Todd Muller and Simon Bridges have had a terrible time. So has David Seymour.

          My criticisms of the PM have been of specific things that she has done (or failed to do) as PM. I have never sneered at her for being from a farming background; so are many MPs. It’s their performance now that’s important.

          Duker and Blazer constantly sneer at Paula Bennett for having been a waitress. I admire people who make something of themselves, but I don’t feel the need to admire everything they do.

          When I have quoted things that I have done, it is not gratuitous, it’s because people like Blazer and Duker make vicious and unfounded accusations about me and my supposed stupidity and ignorance. I am entitled to refute these slanders. Anyone is. No one is under any obligation to allow people like Blazer to call them a habitual thief, a liar and the rest of his lies and vicious slanders without making any response to these false allegations. I have even been told by people here that I have never been married, don’t own my house…and that I called my neighbours, a professional couple who are Pakeha and English born ‘feral Maoris’. Too bad that I had never mentioned them here! .

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  10th July 2020

            Made something of herself – via the DPB and Winz, which she cut off those programs . Getting her own house while on DPB , getting a degree while on DPB. Both gone
            Where you so supportive when Ardern ‘holiday job’ at the fish and chip shop was raised ….if guess not as you would have joined the chorus of ‘not qualified’ to be PM which you continue to this day.
            Please no ‘poor paula’ laments

            Reply
  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  9th July 2020

    Rio Tinto closing the smelter – 1000 jobs going.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  9th July 2020

      Bloody great .
      No more NZ power consumer subsidizing the profits of an AU based multinational.
      The cheaper power we will get will make up for the job losses and than some in time.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  9th July 2020

        “The cheaper power we will get will make up for the job losses and than some in time.”

        I’m going to take a wild leap in the dark and guess it’s not your job being lost, but it is your power bill that will go down.

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  9th July 2020

          No as I have mentioned many times
          I DON”T HAVE A POWER BILL.
          I live off grid as it is a lot cheaper for me to generate my own power than running a cable 350M up a driveway then paying the resulting ongoing power bills.

          I also do not see why the rest of you should subsidize Gena Rhinharts empire to the tune of tens of millions every year.
          If the smelter is uneconomic let it close don’t make the NZ consumers prop it up.
          I dont believe the smelter is actually uneconomic i believe this is yet another chapter in the extortion of New Zealand that has been undertaken by Reo Tinto for years

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            “I dont believe the smelter is actually uneconomic i believe this is yet another chapter in the extortion of New Zealand that has been undertaken by Reo Tinto for years”

            I do actually agree. The government, however, isn’t in the best place to undo this arrangement now. Rio will get better terms.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  9th July 2020

            Cheaper power for us? That’s doubtful. I would say power prices will increase.

            Reply
    • Blazer

       /  9th July 2020

      MEL should rise today then.

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  9th July 2020

      “Rio Tinto closing the smelter – 1000 jobs going.”

      No they are announcing it 10 weeks before an election hoping the government will be like Bill English did and give them taxpayers money and they can then say its ‘postponed’
      We have been through this all before.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  9th July 2020

        Sure. This time, however, Rio is in a better position to extract significantly more money.

        Good negotiation position they have there.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  9th July 2020

          If they can’t make it viable without taxpayer subsidies then f/o.

          1000 jobs and their economic multiplier effect is significant,but with the reality of todays C19 impact on employment,we can deal with it.

          Southland is screaming out for overseas workers,so there are replacement jobs available.

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  9th July 2020

            “Southland is screaming out for overseas workers,so there are replacement jobs available.”

            Why don’t unemployed people from Auckland fill these jobs?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  9th July 2020

              distance.

            • Pink David

               /  9th July 2020

              Last time I checked Auckland was closer than ‘Overseas’.

        • Duker

           /  9th July 2020

          Zero negotiating position as they have cried wolf before. They have got a reduced transmission charges because of the shirt distance to Manapouri.
          Electrons don’t travel like cars on a highway, but it’s a reasonable analogy and there are bottlenecks at various places to the main users in the upper North island.
          Main advantage is the South island lakes are used as price setters and a flow of power from Manapouri could reduce those price peaks

          Reply
  7. Jack

     /  9th July 2020

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346621
    The public expect much much much more of us
    or perhaps I’ll get on my bike or my bus
    I really don’t care
    it’s for me alone that I fear
    I will go out, move on as the saviour – no fuss

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  9th July 2020

      I had to smile at that..but a trucking company owner says no way…what about Orpheus from 150 yrs ago….. smiled even more
      a
      I even have the loaction for the new container terminal, flat land next to the steel mill as the other choice near the airport has those Ihumatao issues .
      Advantages of land by steel mill
      1) sheltered estuary which needs dredging but its soft mud and sands with a channel which only minor dredging to South head where its deep water till about 3-4 km off shore where a channel needs to be dug. Can be done by super large dredgers. Rangitoto channel for Auckland needs deepening too and thats sandstone/papa rock
      2) railway line to steel mill exists which connects to main line at Pukekohe
      3) Plenty of land , which is owned by steel mill bt Im sure they will be happy with port near neighbour
      3) good quality roads directly to SH1 ( Ive travelled often, maybe some passing lanes needed)
      4) Auckland Council – Ports of Auckland will be happy.

      This chart shows area of channel, the wharves are right at the bottom where a small peninsula is location of steel mill

      Reply
      • Gerrit

         /  9th July 2020

        Please allow for 4.5 metre tides when dredging (smallest high tide is a 3.6m and tallest 4.5m). Much higher than Auckland tides. Locals will be upset that the Clarks Beach scallop beds will be destroyed. Road from Drury to Waiuku has just had a 80k restriction put on it and would need major upgrading to handle port traffic. New subdivision just started in Glenbrook Beach. New owners would not be happy to loose their property. Channel at Clarks beach is less then 100 metres wide and includes a large rock formation needing blasting. Would need much land confiscation to provide a wide enough channel. Could go on put this is as much a dead horse as locating a harbour at Wiri or Mt Roskill. .

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  9th July 2020

          Of course there are negative impacts. This is true anywhere you put it.

          Manukau is a serious option that is likely better than Northland.

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  9th July 2020

          Charts numbers show low water, have you ever looked at one ?
          [Mean Lower Low Water,” which is the average depth at the lower of each day’s two low tides.]
          its 6 -9m depth between Karaka Pt and Te Tiro Pt, the river side of Clarks beach
          Thats current depths , no doubt major dredging required but big contracted dredges could go to 20m plus easily
          Clarks beach isnt touched and the rock is a minor issue
          The entire width in this area is 525m from marine chart measuring
          (The Entrance to Hunter River in NSW for bulk carriers up to 150,000 t is around that 400-500m)

          A 200m or so channel would be no problem and thats the narrowest point as it widens off Glenbrook beach where the wharves would be , parallel to the Waiuku River channel

          The entire deep shipping channel past Rangitoto dredged to 12.5 m ( 2007) is only 200m wide.

          These sort of ships would have beam of the 30- 40m range

          All details based on marine charts from app with its own measuring feature , depths are those on chart.

          Reply
          • Gerrit

             /  9th July 2020

            I do 90% of my boating in that area. If we look at the tide table for Onehunga for the 24th July, when I will be next hitting the briny. Low tide is 0.6M and High 4.2m. Variation 3.6M. At spring tides this variation can increase substantially. As the Manukau is a shallow harbour, atmospheric pressure has a greater influence on that variation then say Auckland Harbour. It is not unusual for water to be retained in the harbour (or be slow to come in) depending upon atmospheric pressure.

            But yes everything is doable, Start digging.

            Be interesting if the need for Breakwaters out into the Tasman at Manukau Harbour Bar will be required. The Newcastle Harbour Breakwaters are huge and to replicate those will be an enourmous task.

            Another issue will be the need for Harbour tugs to escort the ships from outside the bar to docking. That is one long trip. Some expense involved there. Not to mention the pilot boat but they could be stationed at Big Bay and the pliot drives from there to and from the port.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  9th July 2020

              Good on you and your boating around Onehunga. Still stands that charts are low water figures. ( not the absolute minimum)
              Every port is affected by barometric pressure, also by direction of winds which can push water down a broad reach which has a wide entrance.
              Firth of Thames is especially prone to this
              Even lakes can have much higher water level on the end where the wind is blowing to, the longer the distance the bigger effect.

              as for the onshore sand movement , it seems to vary with the place. The Port Waikato beach next to the town is losing sand …to somewhere.
              The large area of sand dunes on the North side of Manukau entrance has grown from nothing naturally in last 120 yrs or so.
              Guess what
              https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/105040089/worlds-biggest-dredge-on-its-way-to-lyttelton-after-singapore-flush-out


              The dredge, Fairway, is being cleaned up at Singapore before coming to New Zealand.
              The 230 metre-long 30m wide Fairway will widen the navigation channel by 20m and deepen it for vessels with a 13.3m draft. The first stage will lengthen the channel by 2.5 kilometres and will take 11 weeks.

              Its constantly shuttling around the world for different ports , some people have their eyes shut about most ports needing dredging

            • Gerrit

               /  9th July 2020

              When I first fished the Waikato River Bar (some 40 years ago) it was situated some 400 metres further North than it is now. Most fishers now prefer to cross the Waikato River Bar versus the Manukau Bar to get out into the Tasman.

              West Coast is well known for shifting sand

        • duperez

           /  9th July 2020

          People can do all they like, the situations on the land can be managed. Can the reality of nature and the bar be conquered? And how much conquering would need to be done at what cost year after year after year?

          I read this gentle bit and smiled: “Weather conditions on the west coast could lead to the port being closed occasionally, and this could become a more important concern over time because climate change is projected to increase the frequency and intensity of adverse weather,” said the study.

          When I heard Manukau mentioned early this week I thought it was joke or there’d been a resurrection from the past. Is the way to the Manukau through the Waitemata or down the Manukau?

          https://timespanner.blogspot.com/2008/11/canal-that-was-never-dug.html

          https://eveningreport.nz/2016/06/09/moving-aucklands-port-the-tamaki-ship-canal/

          http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/local/1908/0024/1.0/whole.html

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  9th July 2020

            These are large container ships., every thing else will still use the other Auckland port
            Ports are designed to be open 24/7 , in some situations they may be closed for short periods ,much like airports, due to extreme conditions. eg Cyclonic winds
            GPS has made most entrances much safer as they dont rely on light houses and other visual aids
            This happens in any port , often its the pilot boat getting alongside. [Which might be based at Cornwallis]
            Onehunga has been used for well over 100 years for much smaller coasters which used to travel all round NZ in bad weather …its the ocean , thats what it does. Atlantic can be worse.

            The issues with coming into the port are for the existing channel depths across the bar, these would need a deeper wider channel than currently so substantial container ships would manage most storms coming in.

            If its wide and deep enough , any silting might only require more dredging ( again by super large Dutch dredgers ) every 5 to 10 years

            The good part is the water is 7-8m low water across the bar proper and thats only 1.6 -1.8km distance with deeper water either side. A channel would only need to be 200m wide here
            Its 40m deep (low water) off Nine Pin rock and 30 + m off Cornwallis Pt. 12-15m off Clarks beach. then mostly 15m to 12m till off Matakawau Pt

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  9th July 2020

              Again duker
              With the high winds we have just had no boat could get into or out of the manukau for the last four days .
              The outer bar is presently running a 5.1m swell with a 5.7m sea on top.
              That means at any time you could get a 11 meter plus breaking wave. A wave that size will potentially roll any boat under about 40 meters or stuff a bigger ship into the bottom breaking its back .
              http://www.swellmap.com/boating/new-zealand/manukau-shelf-break
              The bar is not a fixed thing It moves around in high seas.
              The bar would have moved this week and any boat trying to get in would have to rely on seamanship to find out where the channel is before entering.
              I have seen other reports that claim the manukau is a viable ports this is not the first one
              The writers of such dribble live in lala land .

            • Duker

               /  9th July 2020

              What size are those boats that can’t get in …
              Fishing boats?…small coasters under 1200 tonnes
              Even berthing can be restricted for large ships in high winds…ever seen the ships anchored in outer gulf past the Noises…not unusual. Ships have lots of reasons they have to wait, winds are just one.
              Please don’t use the fishing boats and coastal twiddlers for reasons a prperly dredged Manukau port can’t handle 20,000 to 50,000 tonners

    • Blazer

       /  9th July 2020

      probably a good idea …for some.
      You should be o.k PD.

      Reply
  8. lurcher1948

     /  9th July 2020

    ALWAYS REMEMBER FOLKS, when there’s another,covid-19 case from an Indian returning home to their new home. THANKS JOHN KEY and the NATIONAL PARTY, for letting the Indian sub continent to suddenly become New Zealanders for and with MOOLAH….JUST REMEMBER

    Reply
    • That is nonsense and you know it. Look at the number of Indians in total who live here. The majority are certainly not rich. The money thing was for investment in NZ, not a payment for the privilege of living here. Rich Indians live very well indeed in India.

      Reply
  9. Corky

     /  9th July 2020

    Pauline Hanson deals to supposed ferals. I thought it was unusual when a TV report interviewed mostly foreigners at this locked down tower complex. Also mentioned was methadone( for Heroin addiction ) was being supplied for addicts.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?objectid=12345818&&ref=topbox

    Reply
  10. lurcher1948

     /  9th July 2020

    FANTASTIC Haka response POLICE,LETS put the [deleted] in their place, NO GUNS no DEAD POLICE…after all WHO NEEDS A GUN,,,um [deleted]

    Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  9th July 2020

      I saw my daughter in there. She threw herself into it. A special moment of remembrance and Kia kaha

      Reply

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