Open Forum Sunday

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45 Comments

  1. Gerrit

     /  19th July 2020

    You have to wonder how truthful the number in regards covid deaths are,especially in the USA.

    A motorcyclist killed in an road accident is listed as a covid death due to having a positive test for the virus. The other fatality in the accident not having the virus was listed as a non covid death. The statistics on covid death are that if you die with covid, but not from it it, is a death caused by covid. Logic defying statistics.

    “But you could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash. I don’t know the conclusion of that one.”

    https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death

    “Earlier this week, the Florida Department of Health sent FOX 35 News a statement that attempted to clarify that a “COVID death” is determined if, “COVID19 is listed as the immediate or underlying cause of death, or listed as one of the significant conditions contributing to death. Or, if there is a confirmed COVID-19 infection from a lab test – and the cause of death doesn’t meet exclusion criteria – like trauma, suicide, homicide, overdose, motor-vehicle accident, etc.”

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th July 2020

      Uk stats have a similar problem, maybe worse. Reportedly if you have ever had the virus you get listed as dying from it.

      Reply
      • That happened here, too. Even people who’d had negative tests but been where it was died of it. The last case was a woman in her 90s who’d recovered and died of unrelated things some time later.

        It’s as insane as the list of workplace deaths that included someone who ignored a stop sign and went into a piece of heavy machinery on a road digging site and an old woman who fell down steps at a garden centre, broke something and died of pneumonia something like six weeks later.

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  19th July 2020

      “A message on the government’s website on Saturday said: “Currently the daily deaths measure counts all people who have tested positive for coronavirus and since died, with no cut-off between time of testing and date of death.”

      The UK has been recording anyone who has ever had Covid as a Covid death. Get Covid, have no problems, 3 months later get eaten by a shark, then you are still a Covid death.

      https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/18/daily-updates-on-english-covid-19-deaths-paused-amid-accuracy-concerns

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  19th July 2020

      “Although it may seem straightforward, there is no WHO-agreed method of counting deaths from Covid-19. In England, we count all those that have died who had a positive Covid-19 test at any point, to ensure our data is as complete as possible.”

      Dr Susan Hopkins, Public Health England

      Reply
    • I suppose that the motorcyclist could be considered to have been thinking about that so much that he wasn’t concentrating, but this would be unproveable even if he did something careless which we have all done on the road. But if he had nothing to do with the crash, this can’t be called a Covid death,

      It’s beginning to look like a conspiracy theory, making the death rate as high as possible by classing totally unrelated deaths as Covid ones. A while ago I would have dismissed this as a conspiracy theorist’s fantasy !!!

      Reply
      • Much does seem like sloppy reporting, sloppy thinking and poor comprehension. 100% of tests proved positive? Possible but not probable.

        If someone has it and is murdered or dies because a slab of concrete lands on them as they pass a building site, how can this be a covid death ?

        Reply
  2. Gerrit

     /  19th July 2020

    And with there not being a standard definition of what constitutes a death caused by covid, the Chinese have conquered the virus.

    “And despite the rollback of containment measures across China as daily new COVID-19 cases drop to just double digits, nearly all imported from abroad, the change in criteria raises doubts about whether the virus is truly defeated in the country where it initially emerged.”

    https://time.com/5813628/china-coronavirus-statistics-wuhan/

    I guess the numbers are “massaged” in various locations to suit the propaganda message and maintain control over the population through fear.

    Reply
    • It is beginning to seem like it, I must say.

      Our lockdown was justified by scaremongering and inflated possible death numbers predictions. Then we were all saved by it ! Up to 80,000 lives saved !

      Reply
  3. Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th July 2020

      Yes, shame it wasn’t on the online version.

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  19th July 2020

      Not her proper name.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  19th July 2020

        Easy now.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  19th July 2020

        Nice though. I think she’d run with it.

        Generally speaking I wish all politicians well. Almost all of ours want to make things better. I may disagree with their solutions but more rarely with their objectives.

        Reply
        • The best headlines of all time must be ‘Banana Found Guilty of Sodomy: Flees.’ and ‘Foot Heads Arms Body.’

          Both are genuine.

          Reply
          • Harry

             /  19th July 2020

            Also the classic Headless Body in Topless Bar.

            Reply
            • Nooo !!! 😀 Where was that ?

              You will notice that almost everything I say has a downtick. The Phantom Down Ticker (PDT) who does this must scroll down every page looking. How pathetic. I can say that it’s a lovely fine day and it will be downticked.

  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  19th July 2020

    My phone keeps telling me to say “Open Youtube” but it doesn’t seem to understand “F.O.”?

    Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  19th July 2020
    Reply
    • The article is a biassed, imprecise hatchet job masquerading as an opinion piece.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  19th July 2020

        It’s by Martyn Bradbury. He doesn’t pretend to be impartial, nor precise. He’s unlikely to ever write a piece promoting a National Party government, is he?

        It’s a partisan attack piece, typical of style – but he has hit on a couple of resounding-sounding slogans. I’m not happy about National suspending contributions to the Superannuation fund.

        He’s forgetting when he says that Collins destroys while Ardern grows & builds that Labour’s failed pretty spectacularly in the kiwibuild department & a fair bit of that growth has been in areas like child povidy & remand prisoners again.

        Reply
    • How many people do still talk about Crusher Collins ? She’s hardly ‘known as’ that.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  19th July 2020

        Those who vote to remember and know this nasty person Kitty Maybe ITS YOUR memory that is fading

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  19th July 2020

        I understood she likes the name, & as she’s already been quoted as saying “I am hoping that the National Party can crush the other lot when it comes to September 19,” after being hurriedly shovelled in to the leader’s job after the Muller-Kaye-Adams experiment crashed & burned, it seems clear to me she intends to trade on that moniker for all it’s worth.

        Seems to me that Collins clearly believes any publicity is good publicity & notoriety might well work for her rather than her wasting time trying to unsuccessfully reinvent herself?

        Reply
        • Possibly, and I heard her saying that.

          But whether that means that she wants to have this derogatory name used of her forever is another question.

          Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th July 2020

      Obviously you and Bradbury are very afraid. Excellent.

      Reply
  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  19th July 2020

    Another journalist quits citing woke censorship and intimidation:
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jul/18/anti-trump-british-journalist-quits-new-york-magazine-in-woke-row

    And Stuff consolidates its stable of idiot columnists invoking cancel culture:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/300056583/mel-gibson-has-a-new-movie-out-please-dont-watch-it

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  19th July 2020

      There’s no room for people who are white and right, Alan.

      Sorry, didn’t see your link about Mel Gibson.

      Reply
  7. Corky

     /  19th July 2020

    My, how does Mel Gibson do it? Because he makes independent productions you morons.
    And how the haters hate that. Tough.

    Quote:

    ”Then, last week, the actress Winona Ryder resurfaced an earlier claim that Gibson had made homophobic and anti-semitic remarks to her and her friend, make-up artist Kevyn Aucoin, in the mid-90s.

    He allegedly asked Aucoin (who is gay) if he was going to get AIDS, and said to Ryder (who is Jewish and whose father lost many family members in the Holocaust): “You’re not an oven-dodger, are you?”

    Talking of Winona Ryder, she claims producers have told her she doesn’t get parts because she looks too Jewish. I can’t work out how that works given Hollywood has more Jews then you can point a stick at.

    I’m extremely pro Israel and Jews. But I have no problem with Gibson spouting his views. That’s how REAL free speech should operate. Should Gibson receive a backlash, that’s his problem.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/300056583/mel-gibson-has-a-new-movie-out-please-dont-watch-it

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th July 2020

      Obviously this generation of journalists has never heard of Voltaire let alone considered what he said. Thick as bricks.

      Reply
      • He didn’t say that quote about opinions; there is no evidence to support this.

        Reply
        • It was said by the author of a biography and wrongly attributed to him.

          Many of his other supposed quotes are inane and obviously not his words. He wouldn’t have told people to sing in the lifeboats; these were not invented until 1790 and he died in 1771.

          Reply
          • Look it up for yourself. PDT. You’ll find that it’s true.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  19th July 2020

            The biographer used it to illustrate what Voltaire believed so it doesn’t matter if he didn’t actually say the exact French equivalent. Journalists should know something about the underpinnings of their profession.

            Reply
  8. lurcher1948

     /  19th July 2020

    A loooong train,9 engines, longer than Todd Muller’s term at the top of the National party table

    Reply
  9. Corky

     /  19th July 2020

    Another church burns in France. It’s apparently arson this time. So who could be the culprits? Lefty agitators? Muslim nutters or just some deranged material fundamentalist?

    My guess, knowing the French, is it may not be arson.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-cathedral-nantes-arson-fire-1.5654830

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  19th July 2020

      Evidence of 3 fires, deliberately lit, the major damage being to the organ, & the seat of the main fire behind the organ. Police treating it as a criminal act. Sounds like arson to me. As to who – could be anybody. Some nutter, someone with a grudge against the Church or the Bishop or a cleric there, someone not paid for work done, someone who hates Catholics, or church organs, who knows? Can’t see much point in speculating on such little knowledge at present.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  19th July 2020

        ‘ Can’t see much point in speculating on such little knowledge at present.’

        Isn’t that just what you have ..done!

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  19th July 2020

          Yes. And how much closer to who did it & why did it get us?

          Nowhere.

          Reply
      • Harry

         /  20th July 2020

        I would put money on the culprits being muslim.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  20th July 2020

          on what evidence ….or is just a …’feeling’.

          Nearly 400 shootings involving more than 4 people in the U.S last year…..how many of the perps were Muslim,would you …bet?

          Reply

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