Open Forum Saturday

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27 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  25th July 2020

    Good moaning…and in ze Blue corner…

    Reply
    • seer

       /  25th July 2020

      When I watched that on youtube, one of the videos I was recommended was Susan Boyle’s first audition.

      Reply
  2. Blazer

     /  25th July 2020

    keeping it…real..

    ‘When the US bans Chinese apps and social media it is done in the name of national security. When China bans US social media to protect its national security it’s an infringement of freedom and free market access.

    When the US jails dissidents like Chelsea Manning it’s done in the name of national security. When China detains a dissident it’s a violation of human rights.

    When the US oppresses its minorities it’s excused as a flaw that needs to be addressed after centuries of neglect. Any resistance by the oppressed is seen as a threat to national security. When China seeks to alleviate the poverty of its minorities it is called genocide.

    When the US spends hundreds of billions of dollars on its war budget it’s done in the name of national security. When China builds up its defense forces it’s called aggression.

    It seems that the US can do as it pleases in the name of it’s own national security but China has no right to do the same.’

    – Dr Dennis Etler,
    Professor of Anthropology, UC Berkeley 8•7•2020

    Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  25th July 2020

      “UC Berkeley”…snigger,.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  25th July 2020

        what about the content though?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  25th July 2020

          The problem with that is that it’s couched in such simplistic terms it produces false equivalences.

          Chelsea Manning released information on US military operations as a serving soldier & it would be a rare country that didn’t jail or even execute someone who did that. US citizens can still freely criticise their government. China detains & punishes critics of its government.

          The US doesn’t oppress its minorities in the same way that China does. For example, Muslims can practice their religion in the US. Black people can still succeed in society & even be elected to Congress – & one was elected to the presidency. The issues about minorities in the US are more about systemic & societal racism & associated poverty, illegal migrants, & First Nations peoples having their land & customary rights ignored.

          The current long-running protests & lawlessness in some cities in the US over both police brutality & police racial targeting are a confusing situation but I can’t see any country wanting to allow rioting & destruction to continue without trying to enforce order somehow. What’s been happening with police pulled off the job in some cities is pretty bizarre. Crime, violence & lawlessness has increased where police have been stood down.

          This isn’t the same thing as the CCP’s crushing repression of millions of Muslim Uighers.

          The military spending of both countries & flexing of their military muscles is inevitable, especially with a bombastic US President constantly talking about making the US military the strongest in the world so that no one dares challenge it. Any country with military power uses it to promote their own strategic interests & Trump has identified US strategic interests as paramount. He even threatens & economically penalises allies who want to ignore his sanctions.

          The US has a bad record of attacking other weaker countries. China is constantly threatening other countries now around the South China sea with competing claims to territorial waters, & is always threatening to re-take Taiwan. But it has historical claims to it.

          The US certainly demonstrates plenty of hypocrisy in its own behaviour & which badly behaving countries it wll criticise & which ones it will support for economic & strategic reasons, but not as clear cut & simplistic as that prof says.

          Reply
        • Kimbo

           /  25th July 2020

          Well, as some 50 years ago academics at Berkeley, and students too, were arguing the same thing about China under Mao…and the Viet Cong and North Vietnam, and the USSR, I’ll take that into account when deciding if Dr Dennis Etler is interested in a serious discussion to find the truth…or if he is regurgitating tired and hopelessly biased talking points.

          Here’s a good practical test, though: do academics in present-day China have the same freedom to criticise their country’s government, much less have their thoughts readily disseminated to a worldwide audience so that we can all personally discern the merits and engage in a public discussion if we so choose?

          Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  25th July 2020

      When china puts a million citizens in reeducation camps, orphans the children and sterilises the mothers, it’s all done in the interest of national security.

      Yes indeed, America is truly evil

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  25th July 2020

      Truly bizarre, B, but it does demonstrate why Trump is necessary for the US when that is the level of analysis and judgement in US academia.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  25th July 2020

        That US society & the US government are a muddled, seething mass of contradictions & hypocrisy demonstrates, maybe, why Trump got elected, but not that he is the solution. He epitomises the problem & makes it worse.

        Reply
        • duperez

           /  25th July 2020

          A muddled, seething mass of contradictions & hypocrisy is right. The thing is of course that everyone, including those with the widest range of contradictions & hypocrisy are right. Everyone is right.

          What unites them is the Constitution. Um … just a minute, well maybe not. They’ve been told that parts of it are ‘hoax.’ They keep saying things about the right to protest and free speech but can stand on the street peacefully doing those things and be attacked by armed forces because the President has a political stunt date with a bible.

          What unites a mass of them is their spokesman preaching factionalism and division, identification of differences as a basis for suspicion, mistrust and condemnation and then hailing his words being united in dealing with little problems like coronavirus.

          The leader epitomises the problem? He fertilises it, harnesses it and in sop doing of course makes it worse. That has to be.

          Reply
      • duperez

         /  25th July 2020

        AW, fair enough if you have Etler’s contribution as symbolising the level of analysis and judgement in US academia. Doing that I suppose is the equivalent of accepting a random Presidential tweet as symbolising the level of intellectual thought from all the expert adviser’s at Trump’s call and his contribution to rationality and leadership.

        What is wrong though with the postage stamp analysis of Etler as an example of how things work in the world?

        You can’t be rubbishing the guy for his level level of analysis and judgement in US academia in postage stamp form surely. People won’t read a weighty treatise and analysis of the subject which see a his pithy summary. He could put out a video with hours of collected and considered information and analysis and people wouldn’t watch it. You know people with millisecond concentration spans who don’t read stuff who get to be world leaders.

        Reply
        • Jack

           /  25th July 2020

          https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300064547/mp-iain-leesgalloways-political-end-harsh-and-hypocritical#comments

          One day ILG will click as to Jacinda’s duplicity. With emotional garbage it can take a while, but some time in the future he’s bound to feel duped. Only then will he understand the seriousness of his mistakes while in office.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  25th July 2020

            I wonder if on that ‘one day’ he’ll have an acute sense, a very sharp feeling for the circumstances in the moments as they happened.

            The piercing feeling you might call duplicity. I wonder if he’ll be capable of appreciating the wider feelings too. You know, what would have happened if Ardern had chatted to him and told him he was a naughty boy and to behave himself.

            The initial responses would have have been hysterical. They would have been about Ardern being gutless, about no standards and so on. About Lees-Galloway being scum. And it would have gone on an on. If Lees-Galloway had taken the woman to a cafe or an engagement and it was on the ‘company card’ it would have been about corruption.

            All the way to the election. For his indiscretion the guy is dog tucker, just another victim, just collateral damage, expendable.

            That’s the political environment we have. That’s the environment many want and relish. That’s why Collins could play her part in this incident as she did and be a hero.

            It’s no good deliberately walking through the cow shit and then complaining about the smell.

            “Alister Browne is an experienced Stuff scribe and former Press Gallery reporter who writes a weekly politics column.” All that says is he works in a business with people who can’t get enough of the smell. If there’s not enough of it or it’s not strong enough they do their best to create it.

            Reply
          • Jack

             /  25th July 2020

            If Jacinda had ignored the ILG matter I would not have considered that gutless. I would have thought the same as I do now – that she has no mandate to interfere in private lives. And I would have thought that she turned down an opportunity to look stupid. Then, when the media continued clamouring, I would have seen it as just that. I would have thought more highly of her for standing her ground. She made a bizarre call, based on inexperience and emotional retardation. What else in government are these qualities affecting?
            Our PM was raised in a cult. Perhaps one day she might click too, as to having been duped.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  25th July 2020

              Collins is not a hero in this. I doubt she feels that way nor would want others to.
              It’s interesting how we each have differing notions of kindness.
              I see Judith as genuinely kind. I see Jacinda as wannabe kind. And that’s a kind statement from me!

            • duperez

               /  25th July 2020

              Consider that she made a call based on the retardation in the community..

              She could have been a noble leader of the opposition for trying to be Canute =against the tsunami of those who value esoteric things like letting MPs having private lives.

              Ardern made a bizarre call, based on inexperience and emotional retardation? Because she was raised in a cult?

              What exactly do you think about Collins contribution to proceedings? A bizarre call, based on inexperience and emotional retardation? Because she was raised in a cult? Describe what caused what she did.

  3. About elsewhere of course…

    Reply
  4. Corky

     /  25th July 2020

    Funny how Covid has made many forget about pre-Covid concerns like the climate scamming… and as I was reminded when I stopped outside a motel and saw 4 of the 10 units with rough looking folk outside smoking up a storm, people holed up in motels because of a lack of housing. Jeez, does National really want to be the gummint?

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  25th July 2020

      Clearly National do not want to be the government … whether they know it or not.

      They are also unfit to govern … So their complete demise will be GOOD in many ways!

      Reply

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