Labour won’t do a deal with ‘celebrity’ Green

Labour refusing to help Green candidate Chloe Swarbrick in Auckland Central could be grim for NZ First, who need to have a deal to have any chance in Northland.

Now Niki Kaye has withdrawn from contention in the Auckland Central electorate it is up for grabs. National haven’t named a replacement candidate yet, but leaving the seat open to discussion about whether Labour and Greens will do some sort of a deal. If Swarbrick wins the seat her party won’t have to make the 5% threshold to get back into Parliament, but Labour are openly unwilling to help.

RNZ: Labour rules out deal with Greens in Nikki Kaye’s seat

Labour is adamant it won’t be doing a deal with the Greens in the Auckland Central electorate.

Labour Party’s candidate Helen White will be going up against Green MP Chlöe Swarbrick, who is campaigning for both the party and electorate vote.

White said National won the seat in 2017 by just 1500 votes over Labour.

“The vote was so close for Labour, it just isn’t in the same league with regard to the gap that the Greens would have to move,” she said.

Given that, White said she was sizing up National as her main opponent in the seat.

The Greens are polling at about five or six percent, right on the threshold for getting back into parliament.

But regardless of that, White said she wouldn’t be making way for Swarbrick in Auckland Central.

“I actually think the Greens will be fine, they’ve got a solid base and obviously Chlöe is way up on that list, so people will firmly expect to see Chlöe in parliament.”

Asked what she would say to people who pointed out Swarbrick’s higher profile and name recognition, White said: “I’d ask them whether they’re looking for a celebrity or someone to do this job very seriously.”

At a campaign event in Auckland last night, Labour’s national campaign manager Hayden Munro told the crowd the party could not afford to split the progressive vote in the seat.

But if Labour aren’t going to help Swarbrick, or vice versa as some arrogant Labour supporters have insisted should happen, the left wing vote will be split between White and Swarbrick.

Labour will be very keen to take Auckland Central back now Kaye is out of the picture, but as long as the Greens get 5% or more (as I think is likely) then who wins Auckland Central won’t matter, as the party vote is what matters.

Labour refusing to do a deal in Auckland Central has greater implications for NZ First, who are polling well under the threshold.

If Labour don’t do a deal to help Swarbrick then they can’t credibly do a deal to help Shane Jones in Northland. And if Jones loses there (he has never won an electorate), and if NZ First fail to make 5%, they are out of Parliament.

And the old dog Winston Peters seems to have lost his political teeth.

Stuff – Winston Peters: old dog, same tricks but no bite

The NZ First leader is fighting for survival, afraid that he’s about to be tossed out of the toxic swamp of Parliament.

And as his time in the Beehive peters out, he shows no sign of changing. But the old dog’s teeth are no longer sharp.

As he awaits the outcome of a Serious Fraud Office investigation following revelations about the secretive NZ First Foundation, Peters has watched his party’s polling dwindle to around 2 per cent.

He’s been here before. But while pundits were previously reluctant to write off Peters, his tricks just now seem as old and tired as Lazarus himself.

His campaign launch last weekend failed to showcase any new ideas.

No-one buys the schtick of baiting his Government partners any more. In a sense, he’s the victim of his own chaotic tactics. Self-preservation kept him in the Labour-NZF-Greens alliance – destabilising a leader as popular as Ardern would almost certainly have finished him.

But having gone the distance with the Greens, attacking them to kick off a campaign is just meaningless political rhetoric.

His other stock tactic of distraction also failed him last week.

Facing scrutiny about a taxpayer-funded trip to Antarctica for two wealthy mates, Peters cooked up a story about who’d leaked his private pension details.

It was the latest half-cocked claim in a saga that has already cost him $320,000 in High Court costs. He’s got a long history of making unproven allegations under the shelter of parliamentary privilege, while those he accused have no way to defend themselves.

Peters can only win if voters see only his crafted image and ignore the reality of who he really is.

But once the tricks become obvious – when the threadbare curtain concealing him is pulled back – the show man can no longer pass himself off as the Wizard of Oz.

Peters is looking jaded and out of ideas.

His stymieing of a $100m rescue package for Southland, as the region reels from the likely closure of the Tiwai smelter, was cruelly cynical.

Peters was in Southland on Friday making ludicrous suggestions that management or employees buy the smelter, as there is not chance of a Government buyout he had previously suggested.

So Peters was pushing policy that he has no support for from other parties, so has no chance of succeeding with. Voters are likely to see through his promises, which are as lacking in credibility as his accusations in Parliament.

Jones also looks like he has lost already. He must have got the message from Labour that they aren’t going to help him in Northland.

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82 Comments

  1. John J Harrison

     /  26th July 2020

    Pete, dead right.
    Peters and his hapless MP’s are facing certain political death by a thousand cuts.
    Peters is akin to a well fed Groper flapping on the jetty after being hooked.
    It’s like watching a slow moving train wreck, one simply cannot avert staring at the source of the inevitable implosion.
    The sooner NZ First are unceremoniously thrown on the political scrap heap the better.
    Likewise the socialist/ communist Greens who’s leader made it a policy for Maori wahine to reclaim the C—- word !

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  26th July 2020

      I fear the ‘C” word as far as you are concerned is a collection of benign Cliches…..hopeless.

      Reply
  2. David

     /  26th July 2020

    Chloe is the most overhyped politician in the country, no way she gets above 15% in Auckland Central. If Labour stand aside National clean up, preposterous that they stand aside for a sub par candidate of a party that literally takes votes off them and will only go into coalition with them as they pre emptively surrender their negotiating power.
    I am stunned at how dumb the Greens are, almost like they prefer opposition.

    Reply
  3. Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  26th July 2020

      Her huge results??

      Reply
      • Misogynist is ridiculously overused to dismiss any criticism of women.

        Reply
        • It means a pathological hatred of women, as in ‘vagina dendrata’. The PDTs are showing their ignorance. Only a fool would assume that the slightest criticism of a woman or her actions is misogynistic. Do they think that criticising men means a pathological hatred of men in general ?

          Is Chloe Swarbrick being misogynistic when she puts down Helen White ?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  26th July 2020

            Since when did she ‘fought her way into parliament’ either.
            She merely was 7th on the GREENS list
            Was that was it really like on the Green list at the time which had 6 out 8 Mps female.
            Some cat fight that must have been to push existing sitting Mps further down the list
            Dont tell me about ‘fought for someone whos had a privileged upbringing and whos contribution to the city was a ‘clothing label’ for inner city fashionistas with clothes made in Bangladesh

            Reply
  4. Fight4nz

     /  26th July 2020

    Stupid of Greens to look for deal in close seat like Auckland Central. Better they offer to sacrifice there for support in a safe Left seat.
    The pity about the loss of NZ First is a good portion of their support of is likely to move to the next lalaland option off the block, ACT.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  26th July 2020

      Peters attacking Seymour has only served to highlight Seymour’s common sense and Peters’ irresponsibility.

      Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  26th July 2020

      Is a strange voter-demographic movement for if it occurs.

      ACT is the neo-lib child of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson, whereas NZ First is the unreformed conspiracy-theorising die-hard Muldoonist rump sworn to oppose and overthrow the post-1984 reforms. Typified by the Winebox that launched Winston Peters into political cult-status some 30 years ago, from which he may finally be descending as his original supporters shuffle off the stage.

      Then again, and as before, voting for Peters was always a cult-of-personally thing, based on emotion, not cool dispassionate logic. And Seymour has rightly earned some of that sort of following in the last 3 years, even if ACT remains an affair of the head before the heart.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  26th July 2020

        ‘ voting for Peters was always a cult-of-personally thing, based on emotion, not cool dispassionate logic.’

        Same as for Trump,Key,Johnson and innumerable other pollies ..then.

        Reply
        • Kimbo

           /  26th July 2020

          …but not Ardern…or the Greens as a soft feel-good brand in the same way inner city urban luvvies donate to Greenpeace?!

          Your list says more about you than the foibles of others, Blazer. 😂

          Nearly all successful politicians have some sort of emotional resonance, otherwise known as charisma.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  26th July 2020

            good to see you agree.Ahem…’ and innumerable other pollies ‘

            Reply
  5. Kimbo

     /  26th July 2020

    I doubt “a deal” in Auckland Central would get Swarbrick over the line anyway. As is the case in neighbouring Epsom, National voters are usually more astute when it comes to voting tactically, so they could abandon the Auckland Central National candidate (who swill have none of the hard-earned profile of Nikki Kaye who flipped a natural Red seat) in sufficient numbers and pile into the Labour alternative.

    Is likely also unnecessary insurance as the Greens should always make the 5% threshold, especially on overseas votes attracted to the soft feel-good brand and with little or no skin in the game when it comes to consequences for jobs and other immediate concerns stemming from “Green Economy” policies. Indeed, it could be a counter-productive admission of Green weakness, including inviting more scrutiny of their arguably poor (as per their own admission) record as confidence and supply partners propping up the most anti-Green faction in parliament, NZ First.

    Unlike NZ First this time around who are struggling, and for whom no reasonably winnable seats after any deal, including Northland, exist. Plus Labour and the Greens, like National, want NZ First gone, and fancy their chances of forming a government much more to their tastes once they are.

    Seems Peter’s and NZ First have little hope, but it has been said before so until it happens…

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  26th July 2020

      Not a natural Red seat… demographic changes mean its a high income area compared to the ‘traditional seat’ of lower income.
      provincial seats are now permanently tilted towards National from being marginal as they expanded in size to include the rural surrounding area.
      Napier seat once ended at Mohaka river , but now extends to the Poverty bay rural area just outside Gisborne.
      Taranki is split into 3 seats rather than a New Plymouth based one ( with rural areas) and the other seat Provincial Taranaki. Instead its cut to include Whanganui and King Country, both areas not part of Taranaki.

      Because of migration the NZ population growth is centered in Auckland and one of two areas, and most of the provincial electorates have to get bigger to maintain the standard electorate population.
      We are at a similar level to US gerrymandering where electorates wind all over large areas not related and ignore closer communities of interest.
      Eg Rotorua includes Te Puke in the Bay of Plenty area but excludes Kawerau or Tokoroa , similar timberland towns

      Hutt South excludes Taita in the Hull Valley but extends all the way to Ngarunga Gorge which isnt. ( The main reason it flipped last election)

      Reply
      • Kimbo

         /  26th July 2020

        Disagree about Auckland Central. You are right that Ponsonby, Grey Lynn and Freemans Bay have long since ceased to be working class…propped up as a safe Labour seat in the 1970s and 80s by the Pacific Island migrant vote.

        However, as with Wellington Central, and despite or even because of the relative high income, the constituency now has the time and wealth to indulge and be insulated from the economic consequences of the Woke policies of modern Labour and the Greens. Hence a liberal wet like Nikki Kaye was the only sort of National candidate who could split the Labour/Green urban inner-city luvvie vote, and consistently win the seat, and often just by a few hundred ballots against a strong candidate like Ardern:

        https://www.parliament.nz/en/mps-and-electorates/electorate-profiles/electorate-profiles-data/document/DBHOH_Lib_EP_Auckland_Central_Electoral_Profile/auckland-central-electoral-profile

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  26th July 2020

          Since when did you turn into a Whaleoil type jargon spouting commentator ?

          Every Mp ( mostly) reflects their constituency, in modern terms the people like Nikki Kaye seek out that sort of seat. Marilyn Waring was the odd one out. No surprise Maggie Barrys seat was North Shore either

          Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  26th July 2020

            Fair enough, D. Was a result of engagement recently with some of the demographic concerned that caused me to go beyond “inner city liberal”.

            Mind you, I’m equal opportunity as I have been known to use the phrase “pig-headed reactionary conservative”. But “redneck” I leave to the likes of Willie Jackson😀

            Reply
  6. Duker

     /  26th July 2020

    “I began saying this in 2011 and I’m saying it now stronger than ever that this enterprise has got to be saved,” Peters said.
    He had been supporting the idea of a Tiwai worker/management buy-out for close to 10 years.
    In 2011, Peters went to Tiwai Point and told its workers ‘you guys are going to have to shape up and save yourselves, because you are being taken for a ride by the owners’.”
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122155599/deputy-prime-minister-vows-to-fight-for-tiwai-aluminium-smelter

    PG you were saying a week ago where the plan ? Its been there for nearly 10 years from peters
    Nationals plan for Tiwai ( as Judith said) they can go to hell or similar ( NO …Im sick of it)

    and its happened elsewhere for the Austrian company SAG
    1898
    – Establishment of Salzburger Aluminium by AIAG and Schweizerische Metallurgische Gesellschaft (later Alusuisse) and construction of the third European aluminium electrolysis plant at the Lend site.”
    1992
    Management buy-out by Dipl.Ing. Josef Wöhrer and family as well as other members of the management at that time
    https://www.sag.at/en/company/history/

    Nows the time to do it as the business wont be worth much to Rio Tinto as their plan is to shut it down, this way they get the written down value of the plant plus avoid the decommissioning costs. As well the bauxite refinery at Gladstone will have excess capacity unless they have a buyer for their product

    The loan money would never be cheaper, as thats the way private equity works, only a limited amount of your own money added to borrowed money.
    After all the CEO of Stuff got the company for $1 ( plus ongoing payments as Nine media kept certain assets) and that was a $200 mill pa revenue business with a good cash flow.

    Reply
  7. Duker

     /  26th July 2020

    Great takedowns of Collins by arch ‘libertarian’ Damien Grant

    on the neo liberalism economic icons
    “i safe bet she thinks Hobbes is a cartoon tiger and Hayek is a Mexican actress.”

    ” The closest she gets to articulating an economic vision is to praise the ideologically suspect and economically destructive Think Big projects of Sir Robert Muldoon.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122222331/ministerial-takedown-offers-a-glimpse-into-a-judith-collins-premiership

    What matters is how her political instincts are going to be manifest once she obtains power, and unfortunately she has given the nation a glimpse into what her premiership would be like in the disgraceful way in which she destroyed Iain Lees-Galloway.
    that was another thing she learned from Muldoons time

    and to top it all
    ‘she said in the final paragraph of her maiden speech: “I stand for the dignity of the individual. I believe in God, and I believe that every human being is created with free will to do either good or evil.”
    Perfectly said.”

    harpooned her with her own words…that was a long time back when she did her ‘do no evil speech’ …now she would call it ‘woke nonsense’ until reminded it was her own words

    Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  26th July 2020

      Er, why?

      Woke, as a new manifestation of Marxist dialectics, and despite the rhetoric of social justice

      1. usually rejects any intrinsic notion of “evil”

      2. and usually rejects any notion that “nature” is the “cause” of injustice, but rather nurture/the external environment is all

      3. Instead, Collins is repeating the concepts bequeathed to us by that most in-Woke source, the Judaea-Christian tradition. Or do you really want to argue the modern left adhere to a doctrine of the divine creation of humanity?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  26th July 2020

        Remember Collins ‘clean politics’ mantra the week before just after she became leader
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12348859

        She doesnt either. Shes chosen evil , is if there never was any other way, I bet she didnt think it would happen so quickly.
        The major political commentators have all seen it for what it was , only the numpties believe Judith was ‘only asked a question’

        Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  26th July 2020

      Also, if Ardern sacked ILG, how is it Collins’ fault. I agree the reasons for his dismissal were stupid, albeit in line with current left “power imbalance” doctrine that denies agency to consenting cognisant adults to sleep with whom they wish

      …but all the more reason for Ardern to show her leadership skills and stand by her minister. So you are implying she lacks the courage to do the right thing? Sorry, but what was your argument about moral hypocrisy again?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  26th July 2020

        Collins played the evil card when she purposely raised the issue and publicised it…. that was her action. Saying she was ‘asked’ is nonsense, Garner knew what her answer was before he asked it.
        Its just a small barb in many of his opinions

        TV3/Newshub/AM has long been far more favourable to Collins than even her own Mps. Its no surprise that comments from national Mps that Collins was a prime leaker in her time lower in the pecking order would cover a connection to a particular station

        This is the sort of soft sell from Tova and Judith Show….. pumping her tyres and blow waving her hair all in the same interview

        Reply
      • Kimbo

         /  26th July 2020

        How can Collins have been the “leaker”, when as per Barry Soper, ILG’s personal life was well known in Parliament, including by the press gallery?

        Also, yes or no? Should Ardern have sacked him? I say no and she was a coward to do so, but evidently you consider Collins’ sin of somehow making it an agenda for the press in a harsher light.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  26th July 2020

          Dont be a fool with that sort of line. It was known around parliament … it wasnt known in the wider public till Collins raised the whole issue preemptively on AM
          She set out to do so, and just needed a public forum to light the fuse
          AM has a much bigger audience than than Bellamys bar at parliament.
          Collins has a history of nasty and personal and even Key had to discipline her over the half truths about the China visit and her husbands business connections

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  26th July 2020

            Assertions without evidence. Are you planning to join Winston?

            Reply
            • Kimbo

               /  26th July 2020

              I can actually likely agree with D that Collins placed it on the agenda, and it was a form of “a pox on both your houses” damage control after the Falloon (and Boag/Walker) fiasco.

              But again, what does it say of both Ardern’s lack of courage, and the woolly but arbitrary and capricious silliness of modern Woke “power imbalance” doctrine that ILG had to go…for a consenting sexual relationship with a fellow fully-cognisant adult?!

              No wonder Duker is consistently ignoring those, quoting libertarians whom he would otherwise hold in ideological contempt, and sticking to his “dirty politics” talking points, even to the point of summoning up the ghost of the poor and desperately martyred Colin Moyle. 😂

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  26th July 2020

              Collins had already referred the complaint to Ardern before the Garner interview. If it was a Nat set up Ardern had the option of saying so and even identifying the complainant. She didn’t.

        • Kimbo

           /  26th July 2020

          So…still avoiding the issue of Ardern’s resulting cowardice? 😂

          Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  26th July 2020

      But yes, libertarian Bob Jones made the same critique of Collins this week:

      https://nopunchespulled.com/2020/07/22/sexual-shenanigans/

      …which should be confirmation that, contrary to breathless assertions by the left of Freidmanite bogey-monsters since Ruth Richardson was demoted from the Finance portfolio by Jim Bolger, that the hardcore neo-lib “agenda” no longer exists in National. Ok, Don Brash might have wished it, but instead chose the low-hanging fruit of “racial privilege” courtesy of the Orewa speech.

      So Collins, despite “tough” appearances and “divisive” rhetoric is, like every National Party leader since Sid Holland, a centre-right pragmatist who places a store on competence ahead of ideology. Hence, contrary to our discussion above, NZ First voters are not likely going directly to ACT. Instead they are gravitating to Collins’ National, while the more right-wing purists from National’s 2017 vote are attracted to ACT by Seymour’s perceived competence.

      And just love your attraction to the intellectual lip curl of “she thinks Hobbes is a cartoon tiger and Hayek is a Mexican actress”.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  26th July 2020

        Sound bites !
        Seymour and Competence arent words that go together
        …the guy cant even park properly… or vote against the gun law changes which missed or keep a relationship …with you know who. ( when he made it public in 2017 he said ‘it was on again off again..)
        “Act leader David Seymour says he might have found “the one” – but he has to cross the political divide.
        Seymour is in a relationship with former TV3 reporter Rachel Morton – now working as senior adviser to Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett.”
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11899308

        Reply
        • Kimbo

           /  26th July 2020

          Wow, you are entirely incapable of looking at anything with a leaving of objectivity, aren’t you? 😳😂

          I even tried to temper it for you by referring to Seymour’s “perceived competence”. As per the likely reason for ACT’s rise in the polls recently, I was referring to his championing of the “death with dignity” bill, which irrespective of whether one agrees with it or not, has been a remarkable political achievement for a “gang of one” parliamentary party.

          Sure beats anything Ardern achieved in Opposition, and as part the primary party.

          Reply
          • Fight4nz

             /  26th July 2020

            “Wow, you are entirely incapable of looking at anything with a leaving of objectivity, aren’t you?”
            That is rich.
            A green supporter is a “luvvie”. JA sacking her minister is “capricious silliness of modern Woke ” and “cowardice”.
            That’s almost as breathtakingly self unaware as AW saying looney lefties always make personal attacks.

            Reply
            • Kimbo

               /  26th July 2020

              Er, no I don’t claim my perspective is objective…but at least I can look at the likes of those from parties for whom I wouldn’t vote – James Shaw, Julie Anne Genter, Grant Robertson, Andrew Little, Chris Hipkins and (on a narrow but important set of specifics) Jacinda Ardern come to mind. And unlike Duker I prefer not to ascribe malice to any of them, or anyone for tha5 matter, in the absence of clear and incontrovertible proof.

              So, how about you? More to the point given the current discussion, do you agree with Ardern’s sacking of ILG, and if so, how can Collins therefore have done anything wrong in the affair?

            • Kimbo

               /  26th July 2020

              Also any reason you didn’t pick me up on my (admittedly broad brush) characterisation of NZ First as an “unreformed conspiracy-theorising die-hard Muldoonist rump”? Just wondering if your desire for “objectivity” and “self-awareness” includes.defending those who may not be on your side of an ideological divide?

              And no, I didn’t accuse Ardern of “cowardice” in the first instance. Indeed I’m prepared to take her word that she did not know of ILG’s personal affairs, and in dismissing him she is acting in accordance with her lights…even if I may disagree with them.

              Instead the question of cowardice relates to a logical extrapolation of Duker’s assertion that it was Collins who was somehow engaged in “dirty politics” in the matter. So in the light of Duker’s apparent repeated wilful silence concerning that question, maybe you’d like to have go answering it.

              Again, over to you, Fight4nz…

          • Tom Hunter

             /  27th July 2020

            Wow, you are entirely incapable of looking at anything with a leaving of objectivity, aren’t you? 😳😂

            Duker is a treasure on this site. 😂

            Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  26th July 2020

          Duker with the usual Lefty personal attack as first recourse.

          Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  26th July 2020

            No, no, no, you can’t have got the memo – that’s Judith Collins. It’s different when the left do it!

            Reply
          • Duker

             /  26th July 2020

            It was his lack of competence. How is that personal, he strangely thought publicising his lack of success in the romance area ( hes 38) was a good idea …fail.

            I understand the Assisted dying bill work was done by a competent young woman, and was very little remained of ‘his’ original proposal.
            Seymour was an electrical engineer, dont know why he fancied himself as policy guy….cant have been much chop at that either..but not something I know about

            Reply
            • Kimbo

               /  26th July 2020

              Norman Kirk had no secondary let alone tertiary education, was a stationary engine driver and yet was the architect of New Zealand’s current independent foreign policy. But interesting to see that the modern left counts snobbery among its criteria when assessing fitness for political office.

            • Fight4nz

               /  26th July 2020

              “But interesting to see that the modern left counts snobbery among its criteria when assessing fitness for political office.”
              Definitely, snobs are clearly unfit for any position requiring even handedness in judgement.
              Equally those incessantly asserting their opinions as some sort of infallible divine edict do not rate well.

            • Kimbo

               /  26th July 2020

              No, again I don’t consider my opinion divine edict. Anytime you want to dispute the substance, especially in the light of Ardern’s and the alleged Collins’ involvement in the ILG sacking affair, and whether it should have occurred (as above, I say no, as “power imbalance” or not, it involved a sexual relationship betwwen two consenting and fully cognisant adults)

              …I’m happy to debate the matter and move beyond what are IMHO Duker’s lazy drive-by “dirty politics” talking points.

              Over to you, Fight4nz

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  26th July 2020

              If you can’t see it we probably can’t help you.

            • artcroft

               /  26th July 2020

              Pathetic Duker. Who cares if Seymour is single or engaged? his work on advancing the Death with Dignity Bill shows his quality. Your responses show your lack of it.

            • Blazer

               /  26th July 2020

              Dear oh dear oh dear Al…you can’t help…yourself!

            • Duker

               /  26th July 2020

              Who cares ?…why did he break the news he’s not very lucky in love….never would have guessed that one …hahahaha
              As I said shows his unsuitability for a life in politics even more than a BE…which for some reason is never mentioned.
              Charisma bypass is urgently required

            • artcroft

               /  26th July 2020

              So Seymour is 38 and single and has a BE. That’s a paltry list of offences (neither of which would offend the sensible section of society). Sounds like he’d make an excellent PM on day.

            • Fight4nz

               /  26th July 2020

              Not so disposed to writing at length as yourself, main reason I didn’t pursue the Muldoonist NZ First tangent.
              But, and fair play to you, your questions on ILG handling have gone without response. If it is a fact that they were “consenting cognisant adults” then can’t see a need to sack. But I have no idea. If so why did Collins make such a meal of it? A leopard not changing her spots? Again impossible to know from here, but no shortage of red flags.

            • Kimbo

               /  26th July 2020

              So Ardern sacks someone for an “offence” we both agree should not be at all, but you then claim you “don’t know” when the issue has been clearly spelled out as “power imbalance in the workplace”, about which even Alison Mau of all people

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300065422/alison-mau-is-this-the-end-of-the-bad-behaviour-for-the-gods-of-parliament

              Admits is confusing, squishy and admits defining the supposed boundaries is “tricky” (hence my prior description “arbitrary and capricious”)

              …yet somehow there are red flags and concerns about Collins of all people making a meal of the matter? Nope, not buying that as anywhere logical or fitting the events.

              But a genuine thank you nonetheless for engaging and attempting to make a case.

            • Warren

               /  27th July 2020

              Cannot see how Ardern was unaware if ILG’s affair. Even I as an amateur part time follower of politics have know about his affairs for years

            • Fight4nz

               /  27th July 2020

              No, you just misinterpreted some of what I was saying.
              Agree ILG may not have deserved sacking. But I don’t know if I or you have all the facts.
              Collins track record leads me to be open to the probability she has tried to manufacture another political hit job. Again I don’t have all the facts.

      • Corky

         /  26th July 2020

        ”But yes, libertarian Bob Jones made the same critique of Collins this week.”

        The following ARE NOT LIBERTARIANS:

        1- Bob Jones ( he’s an anarchist if he could have his own way).
        2- ACT. The ACT Party are Socialists.
        3- The National Party ( also Socialists)

        Reply
        • Kimbo

           /  26th July 2020

          Yeah, but to be fair given your apparent inability to distinguish real socialists from those you support some form of wealth redistribution and taxation-funded public services within the overall context of a mixed economy

          …you likely think anyone to the left of you is a socialist

          …and that Hitler was a (National) Socialist.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  27th July 2020

            ”Yeah, but to be fair given your apparent inability to distinguish real socialists from those you support some form of wealth redistribution and taxation-funded public services within the overall context of a mixed economy.”

            From that false premise your confusion intensifies. The fact is the above you and others consider Libertarians just isn’t true. In fact the same criticism you heap on me could be heaped on you, except in the opposite direction.

            Trust me. They aren’t Libertarians. I find the inference Insulting.

            Reply
            • Kimbo

               /  27th July 2020

              Oh, dear. Well if you are “insulted” I apologise for my micro-aggression and I hope that statement goes some way to restoring Your NZ as a safe place for you. 😂😳

              As before, practitioners of the mixed economy cannot, by definition, be socialists – whose defining ideology is a government monopoly of the means of production, exchange and distribution on behalf of the proletariat.

            • Kimbo

               /  27th July 2020

              And I’m pretty sure that I’ve read Bob Jones define himself, in the distant past at least, as a libertarian. However I acknowledge he may be mistaken, have modified and changed, or the two of you are engaged in a libertarian variation of the PFJ/JPF purity dispute. “”Splitters!!!” 😂

            • Blazer

               /  27th July 2020

              Can you define this ‘mixed economy’ you speak of….please.

            • Corky

               /  27th July 2020

              ”Oh, dear. Well if you are “insulted” I apologise for my micro-aggression and I hope that statement goes some way to restoring Your NZ as a safe place for you. 😂😳.”

              That’s better.

            • Corky

               /  27th July 2020

              ”Can you define this ‘mixed economy’ you speak of….please.”

              Good question.

            • Kimbo

               /  27th July 2020

              Serious?! You two resident geniuses of Your NZ can’t google to find info on a basic economic concept and present NZ reality?!

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy

              My invoice for research fees is in the mail. 😂

            • Blazer

               /  27th July 2020

              Yes Kimbo just as I expected.-‘

              ‘As such, there is no single definition of a mixed economy.’

              Interesting that you had to Google it yourself!-hopeless.

            • Kimbo

               /  27th July 2020

              Either that or I didn’t think you were not worth wasting anymore time. Don’t like the answer? Don’t ask the question.

              But as you and Corky are both fascinated by the topics and you are consenting adults I’ll remove myself so you two can get a room together and get in on…

  8. Duker

     /  26th July 2020

    Seymour hasa BE in electrical engineering, a difficult thing to do…what has that got to do with Norman Kirk’s secondary education.
    It wouldn’t matter if Seymour was half good at his job….sub contracting out the choices bill negotiating with a clearly more skilled and capable woman , just proves yet again his lack of skill at the one job he has.
    Oh there’s the abysmal numbers for 2 elections in a row, it seems the voters agree

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  26th July 2020

      You seem a deeply unpleasant person, Duker. I can’t imagine how you could maintain good relationships given your apparent narratives. You should get some professional help.

      Reply
      • Fight4nz

         /  26th July 2020

        Did I miss something? Is it International People In Glass Houses Are Allowed To Throw Stones Day?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  27th July 2020

          Probably in your own glasshouse. It is called freedom.

          Reply
  9. Duker

     /  26th July 2020

    With the Nats at 25% in the polls, Judith is plumbing the depths….and she supposed to be on a honeymoon, threw that away fir a tiny political advantage by engineering a political sacking in Labour…maybe she hopped nothing would happen and it could be a useful whipping post until election day…either way it’s fir nothing . A bit like the Muller inter regnum…all for nothing…remind us again why he’s on leave from parliament , or even Walker iskept away as well.
    Expect sackings or resignations from Collins office as the …cough.. employees leave a sinking ship

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  26th July 2020

      Collins is responsible for what she does, not for what others have done. That’s the future, this is the past.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  26th July 2020

        Yes, but she also has political baggage & a style that some voters really like & others really don’t. One of the reasons it too so long for her to get the job is she’s a polarising character, within the party as well as in the wider electorate.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  26th July 2020

          What has she done as leader that is polarising? Unless resisting the woke lunatics is?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  27th July 2020

            She just IS polarising, imo. People either like her or they don’t. So therefore whatever she does or says is perceived in a positive or negative (or suspicious) way.

            The ILG affair thing is a classic example of how this works. Her supporters advocate her complete innocence & her detractors strongly suspect cunning dirty politics.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  27th July 2020

              Trust has to be earned and takes time. Early days.

            • Warren

               /  27th July 2020

              Yes just like Ardern. I cannot stand her shallowness

      • Blazer

         /  26th July 2020

        Latest poll numbers suggest voters do not like the ‘Crusher’…one bit.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  26th July 2020

          Not so my friends…25% love her long time
          I a funny way she’s become the reverse Hilary Clinton….been around long time….carries a lot of baggage…her past defines her and it’s hard to change
          Nats said Collins came pre packaged and ready for sale and didn’t need a publicity campaign.
          Eat your words ..National Party

          Reply
          • The polls suggest that it’s National doing poorly far more than Collins, which is easy too explain.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  26th July 2020

              So is she polling greater than her party then?
              14.6% !!
              Didn’t think so, she’s only a bit over half as popular as her party
              Tell us again that explanation

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  26th July 2020

              A good proportion of the population wouldn’t ever know who the leader of the opposition is.

            • Blazer

               /  27th July 2020

              How can you blame them….there seems to be a new one every few…weeks!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  27th July 2020

              I’m not blaming them – merely stating the obvious relevant fact that a PM will always have more name recognition than the opposition leader who will almost always also have less name recognition than his/her party.

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