Open Forum Wednesday

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43 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  29th July 2020

    This is a good article. NZ’s immigration system us broken and a disgrace that is damaging people:
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-useless-handbrake-is-released

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  29th July 2020

      And the Herald piles into the ex Minister of Immigration too:
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?objectid=12350717

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  29th July 2020

      No its not , its a factless rant by an opinion writer whos pushing for vitually all work visa applicants to get residency ( even though most never qualified for it)
      I see the Business Roundtable/Initiative has done a similar rant against Lees-Galloway workplace proposals…loving it now hes gone. Funny how a very minor business lobby ( now but not in its heyday during Rogernomics) but very well funded, gets all its opinion pieces published ….. its who you know , of course
      Years ago I saw someone had ’emails’ released which showed the then Business Round Table ‘topped up’ newspaper columnists payments when they covered topics that suited them, that was when they werent commissioning writers to write opinions that matched their ideology.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  29th July 2020

        The Left has its writers on full pay continuously. What are you moaning about?

        And your opinion on the article just shows your usual lack of both comprehension and empathy.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  29th July 2020

          So who is topping up their meagre stipends that newspapers pay

          Its fact free because
          “To put that imbalance in context, back in 2008 there were a potential 125,000 applicants on temporary visas when the residency target was 47,000: a ratio of 2.65 to one. At the end of last year there were 290,000 on temporary visas and the target had been lowered to 37,000: a ratio of 7.84 to one.”

          Temporary visas include students ( who can work part time ) and working holiday visas. They make up the bulk of his number . Those are never residence pathways.

          Once students graduate they can go to post study visas which allow them to work and may qualify for residence if their job is well paid enough. Some only come for the qualification itself.
          Working holiday people , a fairly big number itself ( 50k?) almost entirely go back home- a broader range of countrys now than say US and Europe you would think about.

          The claim just getting and student visa or a working visa is a pathway to residence itself is nonsense.
          Many people seemed to just roll over their work visa and thought they could stay forever ..fail. Its says its only temporary.
          Others with work visas but not enough points would just try to game the system over many years when time here counted for small number of points. Theres the shams over pay rates and so on.
          I remember working for a company where a guy from India, supposed to be qualified with a degree but barely knew what he was doing …the day after his residency came through he quit..same with a guy from Iran.
          They knew they were the stakeholder to get residency so other family members could be sponsored, parents category etc ( thats another area where they stopped processing applications because the taxpayers were having to support them when the rules said the family would)

          Anyway Wilco since when did you like anything from the arch-woke Newsroom ?

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  29th July 2020

            I judge on content not source, Duker. The delays and backlogs in processing speak for themselves.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  29th July 2020

              No . The idea never was to turn ‘temporary work visa’ for every day skills like working in construction , fast food , dairies into permanent residency.
              Is the Inn keeper of Russell have people working on temporary work visas, thus your interest in a ‘woke’ story

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  29th July 2020

              It’s not a woke story at all. It’s about freedom of movement and honest and fair dealing with peoples’ lives and employment.

            • Duker

               /  29th July 2020

              They have temporary work visas, they have to be renewed at the criteria at the time, and must show a NZ cant be found.
              They have their own countries to go back to.
              Australia has had 350,000 citizens return from overseas who have priority for jobs, those temps …like any business who hire temps or contractors- know there is no obligations beyond the ‘finish date’
              If someone has 12 months lease on a house , does it mean their lives cant changed if the lease isnt renewed, same goes for a business, works both ways when tenant moves out and ‘upends’ the landlord

              Americans working in Paihia who dont have work or visa ending will have to return to US , I hope thats what you are telling them.
              Trump is doing the same in US for its ‘temps’

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  29th July 2020

              Just two of thousands of people treated like crap by our ever-loving (of themselves) socialists:
              https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/warriors/122288198/two-warriors-players-banned-from-returning-to-new-zealand-after-nrl-season

  2. lurcher1948

     /  29th July 2020

    If Ms Collins is the answer,what was the question?

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  29th July 2020

      Do you want a sane remedial reset of the economy that isn’t quite as generous as Jacinda’s, or would you prefer a crash course in slash and burn survival living?🤔

      Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  29th July 2020

    Labour comes up with its own plan to scrap the RMA and replace it with more bureaucracy. Rather than restore property rights it will take more away and invest them in central government and bigger, more remote, local government:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12351877

    Reply
  4. Duker

     /  29th July 2020

    Backing up my earlier claim about the NZBR ‘payments’ with the emails I mentioned that Investigate magazine got hold of.
    “~An apparent close working relationship between Dominion
    editor Richard Long and the Business Roundtable

    ~That the Business Roundtable offered to bribe — in Investigate ‘s opinion – journalists and columnists in newspapers to write articles showing Roundtable policies in a favourable light
    https://investigatemagazine.co.nz/14193/deborah-coddington-pinged/

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  29th July 2020

      All professional writers are paid and chosen for their opinions in one way or another. We are not privy to most of those decisions and they are irrelevant. The quality of what they write is what matters.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  29th July 2020

        if your story appears in Dominion under your name , the newspaper should pay , not topped up by a 3rd party who works behind the curtain.
        The BRT gets enough stories under its own name or its employees who pay their salary and of course the newspaper pays them nothing.
        As the Investigate story mentioned

        “A letter from [CK] Stead to the Roundtable’s Michael Irwin in March 1994 begins:
        “I would like to write the piece you suggest for the Dominion, accepting NZBRT’s offer to make up payment to one day’s work at the agreed rate.”
        The article was about education. and his other payment as BRT mouthpiece not mentioned]
        Another document shows Roger Kerr offering to top up another columnist’s usual payment from the Dominion by a further $500 “to make it worth the trouble” to write an article where the “thinking is in line with that in our study”.

        Nowdays its more soft sell, premium tickets to games, entertainment shows , seminars overseas or tourist resorts

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  29th July 2020

          if your story appears in Dominion under your name , the newspaper should pay , not topped up by a 3rd party who works behind the curtain.

          Why? What difference does it make to whether an article is high quality or not? Most likely it allows the writer to spend more time researching it and therefore better content.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  29th July 2020

            Double dipping..
            Its not high quality at all… its paid propaganda from BRT whos involvment is hidden.
            Would you say they same thing if the Labour party was funding my comments ?

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  29th July 2020

              I would say you were both stupid – but that would be based on the result, not the process.

        • Duker

           /  29th July 2020

          Another gem from the leaked emails
          “Investigate is also aware that [Editor Richard] Long ordered alterations to some of the news coverage of the Winebox Inquiry by Dominion correspondents, allegedly because it showed New Zealand First leader Winston Peters in too positive a light.”
          https://investigatemagazine.co.nz/14193/deborah-coddington-pinged/
          Its the worst sort of media biases that I can think of. No surprise it was Dominion and similar to the anti Peters line many media take

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  29th July 2020

            If that’s the worst you can think of, have you ever noticed Trump’s coverage or reconciled it with his current (and very consistent) 42% support?

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  29th July 2020

              Only 60% thought Nixon should be removed from office ( so 40% supported him) just before he went.- even though the evidence was overwhelming by then.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  29th July 2020

              Nope. Nixon’s approval was 24% when he resigned.

            • Duker

               /  29th July 2020

              That was the last stage …. Its 5 months before Trumps election date

  5. lurcher1948

     /  29th July 2020

    Here is a terrible thought, imagine Gerry Brownlee as PM, its a worry,enough to make you drink, Labour goes away and there’s only National, then think sunshine strikes Ms Collins, POOF disappears and Gerry appears in all his largeness.would you be pleased to have Gerry representing NZ..asking for my wife

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  29th July 2020

      Were you ok with Lange’s largeness, Lurch? Just asking for Gemma.

      Reply
      • Lange was so fat and unfit that someone who walked up the steps to Parliament with him thought that he was going to have a heart attack. He was much fatter than Gerry Brownlee, and very flabby. Gerry B seems fairly fit despite his size.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  29th July 2020

          Lange- Labour had lapbelt surgery….

          Nationals fatties who did…Tolley,Bennett…..

          How does Gerry ‘seem fit’?

          Reply
          • Watch the news. He moves without difficulty, he doesn’t puff and pant…

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  29th July 2020

              Ring ring …do you agree that Gerry is the healthiest ‘big guy’ in parliament…thank you you for assisting Curia Market reserach

  6. lurcher1948

     /  29th July 2020

    Here’s a bit of a laugh, watch Andrey Bayly, National…typical rightwinger..BUT…Andrey sits there with his mouth open, catching flies and makes stupid statements in the house, don’t sit in the house turning your head left and right,with mouth open,Crap might happen,a ping pong ball could be inserted

    Reply
  7. lurcher1948

     /  29th July 2020

    Is that the best you Alan W the voice of the right can do….I pointed out Gerrys bulk as in the eye of the world, Gerrys large…obese and he could represent NZ in the eye of the world,NZ National pride is fitter NOT FATTER.

    Reply
    • Alan is not the voice of the right, he speaks for himself only (and quite differently from many on the right).

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  29th July 2020

        I know you pointed out Brownlee’s tummy, Lurch. My question is, “Why?”

        He’s a bit tubby but nowhere near as vast and unhealthy as Lange was and probably a few other politicians from both sides we could recall. It’s not a very healthy lifestyle serving a democracy at the people’s pleasure. I tend to cut them a bit of slack and worry more about what is in their head and heart than in their tummy and gums. If that makes me a voice of the right I guess it defines the Left by subtraction.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  29th July 2020

      I’m feeling LEFT out, Lurchy. Alan and I share the default settings of Righties: Intelligence, wealth and the RIGHT attitude towards life. Apart from that we are completely different people. That comes from the Rights love of individualism and ”can do attitude.”

      Conversely, your side of the fence is easy to sum up: you are either grizzled old losers with a chip on your shoulders…or you are pansies.

      Reply
      • I can hardly believe that Alan will find the comparison between the two of you a flattering one. You are indeed completely different.

        You seem not to have heard of the extreme right dictators of the world, to whom genocide was a legitmate means of control ?

        The idea that all lefties are effeminate gays or old men with chips on their shoulders is ridiculous. There are differences in all political persuasions.

        Reply
  8. Duker

     /  29th July 2020

    Ross turns up to Parliament with a stack of Documents
    https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=214872
    its towards the end …hes a bit long winded, but I suppose he had to tie it into the debate at the time

    180 pages of national party donations , line by line ( 1000s of lines going back many years)
    he says the Nats lawyers have threatened him with an injunction if he tables the documents..which would mean they are in the public domain.

    getting the courts on to an MP for what he says in the house is big no no

    But hes ‘held back’ for now

    Reply
  9. Corky

     /  29th July 2020

    They can’t leave it alone. Reform the RMA, But have a Maori advisory board and influence from the Treaty Of Waitangi.

    Fugg, when are we going to learn? I agree with Winston. This bs and a retrograde step.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  29th July 2020

      Yes. The Left always think the cure for too much bureaucracy is more bureaucracy and more centralisation of power.

      Reply

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