Open Forum Sunday

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45 Comments

  1. David

     /  16th August 2020

    Just looking at the Victoria numbers on Covid and sadly they have let it go through 124 aged care facilities with 2041 active cases. Must be very frustrating for all those affected given its well known how vulnerable that sector is, apparently 63% of Spains deaths were at old age homes and we saw what a disaster NY and New Jersey were.

    Reply
    • Fight4nz

       /  16th August 2020

      Your namesake in Pink will tell you this is fine, more important the economic impact is limited. Is he wrong?

      Reply
      • Where do you imagine that the money for schools, hospitals, roads and social welfare comes from if the economy is wrecked ? This isn’t a Monopoly game where the bank can ‘print’ money when there’s none left.

        Reply
        • Fight4nz

           /  16th August 2020

          But you find it cruel when border closures temporarily separate families? But death in families is ok, as long as the economy is healthy?

          Reply
        • Fight4nz

           /  16th August 2020

          No it isn’t a game.
          You are dismayed by border closures temporarily separating families for example. But you’re ok with deaths in families as long as the economy stays healthy?

          Reply
          • Where and when did I say that about being okay with deaths in families ?

            Don’t put words into my mouth. It’s a form of lying.

            Reply
            • Fight4nz

               /  16th August 2020

              “ Sssshhhh….you’ll be vilified for supposedly putting money ahead of human lives.”

              True it is only implied.

              Note also I have not said which is right or wrong.

            • That is taken out of context. Please tell me that you are not obsessively bookmarking all my comments.

              Have you heard of the deaths elsewhere that have been because of lockdowns when people can’t be admitted to (often almost empty) hospitals which are reserved for C19 cases that never come ? How many cancer treatments have been postponed here ? My neighbour’s heart surgery was put off. As she said, she was willing to chance catching C19 in hospital as the heart condition was going to kill her anyway if the op wasn’t done.

              As NZ’s C19 deaths were all old people with existing conditions, surely it makes sense to protect that group (without putting them into solitary confinement) rather than lock down the whole country.

            • Kimbo

               /  16th August 2020

              Umm, first you demand an answer to the questions, “Where and when did I say that?”

              …and then when it is produced,

              …you complain, “Please tell me you are not obsessively bookmarking all my comments”.

              Don’t like the answer? Then don’t ask the question in the first place, rhetorical or otherwise, much less suggest you are a victim of stalking.

            • Kimbo

               /  16th August 2020

              Also your subsequent explanation would suggest that F4nz has very much quoted you in context.

              And as he suggests, there is no problem as such with your views, indeed it is a defensible position on how o manage and balance the wide risks of Covid, as per the Swedish approach. More the inconsistency in your other priorities.

            • At no time did I say anything to suggest that I didn’t mind people dying, nor did I mention Sweden. That is a gross lie. I have never suggested that we should let the virus run free and take the consequences. I have said that total lockdown is too severe. It is known to cause deaths; look at the UK and US.

              It is totally out of context and does NOT imply that I find people dying acceptable. I have said the opposite; that deaths because of lockdown are not acceptable collateral damage. .

              If FNZ wants to bookmark me as another poster has said that they do to me and others, I can’t stop them. I can’t think why someone would have so little to do or think about that they would bother to do this;I can’t imagine doing it myself.

            • Duker

               /  16th August 2020

              Kitty , we have covered this before , there are less deaths overall during the first 6 months than the last 3 years.
              Its not just a statistical blip either and they are substantial

              “But it was also associated with 548 fewer total deaths than for the same period in 2019.Death rates (per 100,000 population) were also lower in 2020 than the three preceding years. There are a range of plausible reasons for this reduction (eg, fewer road crashes, fewer circulating respiratory infections) but we still need precise cause of death data (available in the future) to make more informed assessments”
              https://blogs.otago.ac.nz/pubhealthexpert/2020/07/10/weekly-deaths-declined-in-nzs-lockdown-but-we-still-dont-know-exactly-why/

              More people alive , who would have guessed.
              The Hospitals have less people in intensive care as up to 1/3 of their patients were ‘elective operations’ where their condition worsened after surgery. There is also the patients who came to hospital critical anyway.

            • Kimbo

               /  16th August 2020

              So, to be clear, Kitty, you think it is ok for others to inspect your record and quote it

              …yet complain you are a victim of the heinous anti-social internet breach of stalking when the do?

              Very poor form. 😫

            • Kimbo

               /  16th August 2020

              Don’t wannabe quoted or have your record checked? Then don’t demand others do it in the first place…and then complain you are being stalked.

              Stalking is at best a grevious breach of internet etiquette, at worst a crime. That is a foul accusation, and you’ve used it like a wave of the hand to try and slur the reputation of someone who did precisely what you asked of them. Just to win a debate you are already losing badly.

              You still don’t see the gross immorality of your actions? Very insightful…

        • Blazer

           /  16th August 2020

          ‘This isn’t a Monopoly game where the bank can ‘print’ money when there’s none left.’

          It is actually..

          Reply
      • Pink David

         /  16th August 2020

        “Your namesake in Pink will tell you this is fine, more important the economic impact is limited. Is he wrong?”

        I don’t think it’s fine. I think it’s exactly what we could expect to happen when everyone gets lockdown.

        Victoria has let covid loose in the place everyone knew the most vulnerable were. This is because the government in Victoria are far too busy locking healthy people into tower blocks and their homes.

        My argument against lockdowns at the beginning of this was simple, they would do far more harm than good. Victoria proves this rather well. Economic destruction, as well as letting covid lose in the place the most vulnerable live.

        This happened in the UK, they sent covid infected into the rest homes.
        NY did this too.

        Where do these lockdowns do any good at all?

        Reply
      • Pink David

         /  16th August 2020

        “Your namesake in Pink will tell you this is fine, more important the economic impact is limited. Is he wrong?”

        Here is an example of what your fear did.

        Reply
        • Fight4nz

           /  17th August 2020

          Can you explain how lockdown in the towers caused spread to aged care facilities? Was it not the lack of restrictions and general lax approach taken that would be behind this?
          That UK paper, is it like News of the World?

          Reply
  2. Corky

     /  16th August 2020

    Jimmy Lai and his two sons will now know the meaning of pain. I will be surprised if we ever hear from them again. They are probably dead now. One round of torture probably did it.
    Of course, China may want to play good guys and use them to show China’s new way of dealing with dissent. Lai and his sons might be released, but you can bet they will never be the same again.

    Good to see HK residents showing support. Democracy for them is a gem. For us, and especially our Left, it’s a cheap trinket taken for granted.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/hong-kong-residents-line-up-buy-newspapers-one-day-after-pro-democracy-publisher-arrested

    Reply
    • Fight4nz

       /  16th August 2020

      “ Pray tell what some of my weird views are?”

      Here’s one
      “ Democracy for them is a gem. For us, and especially our Left, it’s a cheap trinket taken for granted.”

      You are unaware democracy was invented to redistribute power from the wealthy to all citizens. It is the core leftist principle.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  16th August 2020

        No, I was not aware that is the case. Tell me more.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  16th August 2020

        Democracy was invented as an antidote to dictatorship. Constitutional rights were invented to protect individuals and minorities from the democratic majority. Both are necessary.

        Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  16th August 2020

    Americas new way of dealing with dissent. Assange and Manning might be released, but you can bet they will never be the same again.’

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  16th August 2020

      True, they won’t have a job….and will probably become activists. I seem to have hit both a raw nerve and a repeat button. We live in strange times.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  16th August 2020

        The button’ you are looking for is the ‘objectivity’ button…..human nature prevails irrespective of politics and ideology.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  16th August 2020

          That’s true. The problem is..China is a problem for us…in many ways.

          Reply
        • Jack

           /  16th August 2020

          What a weird thing to say – “human nature prevails…” You might as well point out that communism and socialism bring out the worst in you B…..

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  16th August 2020

            and you are living proof that blind religious faith is even more destructive than…political ideology.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  16th August 2020

              I don’t have a religion…B
              Even when I was in church, with Presbyterians, I never had religion. Probably why they pushed me out.
              Yes, your political ideology is destructive….B….causes blindness….

            • I have heard that something else does, but am too polite to say it 😀

    • Duker

       /  16th August 2020

      Thats only because interest rates are so low , stocks make a good alternative…oh and the US Federal reserve is providing loans ( printing money) for big business and banks ( to on lend)
      The stock market rose rapidly under Obama as well once QE began

      Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  16th August 2020
    Reply
  5. Corky

     /  16th August 2020

    Good to see commentators repeat what I said previously: no matter what Jacinda decides about the election date, she will receive some stick. That’s good for National. They need to make the most of this. Build on the damage this government is receiving, so should Labour win again, they will be a completely shattered unit…they already are to some degree.

    My guess is a middle of October election???? Surely, Jacinda wouldn’t want to give National anymore time to mount their election campaign?

    Whatever Jacinda decides, it will reflect her mindset and how confident she is/isn’t.

    Reply
  6. Corky

     /  16th August 2020

    Auntie spouts ignorance while accusing Mike of being a shock jock. Even throws in racism for good measure. My advice to her: live in South Auckland for a year before pontificating.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/helen-clark-hits-out-at-shock-jock-mike-hosking-over-cannabis-views.html

    Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  16th August 2020

    Winston calls for election delay. That means Labour doesn’t have a majority for it. Better not let Parliament sit again then.

    Reply

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