Open Forum Thursday

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66 Comments

  1. Jack

     /  20th August 2020

    https://www-newsroom-co-nz.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.newsroom.co.nz/what-is-islams-appeal-to-maori?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&amp=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsroom.co.nz%2Fideasroom%2Fwhat-is-islams-appeal-to-maori

    Saw this coming.

    Islam’s appeal to proponents of te ao Maori is secondly due to trickery. Their gods are not prudent to recognise the grooming process.

    First aspect – Islam’s God is clever, powerful in cult. Too soon coercive via gang behaviour.

    Many things at play not least the undermining of equality. Complex, just what Socialists love.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  20th August 2020

      Rambling drivel.

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th August 2020

      So you are saying Islam is a cult?…favourite derogatory word of yours isn’t it.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  20th August 2020

        “Cult’ is not a derogatory word, in my experience.
        Yes I throw it around. Makes me look a bit daft, here at least.

        Those 12 PDTs don’t know the difference between ignoring because of pushed buttons and cult. Or is it just plain old mockery? or derision? simmering hatred? – but it can’t be that, without comments. Then again, poor B got used for reinforcing my isolation from the crowd, whereas he is usually the one on the outer, bothering others. PDTs because of cowardice? – cannot know, without comments.
        To me, cult is in my face these days – a part of a process which only gets easier and more fun.

        Debate with me why ‘cult’ could be considered pejorative? Who cares about the crowd? I do, very much – but I detest cult. I hate Islam, but I love Muslims. I hate other deceits as much as I hate Islam. Some hate feels excellent. Hate hate hate. A lovely word. I hate cult, but to look at me you would probably would not guess. I hope lots of Kiwis are like that.

        Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  20th August 2020

    I have watched David Seymour on breakfast tv putting all his faith in the Taiwan model with it’s very low covid death/cases.I wouldn’t trust Taiwans figures as far as I could throw them as it’s an Asian country doing one upmanship over their enemy China,millions of Taiwanese in crowded cities with what,4 deaths,yer right

    Reply
    • Taiwan was the fastest country to act. It knew this moment was coming and there was little room for error. Located just 81 miles off the coast of China, Taiwan has more than 850,000 citizens based there. In 2019, despite restrictions on Chinese tourism to Taiwan due to the island’s choice of president, Taiwan received 2.71 million Chinese visitors. There were frequent direct flights between Wuhan and Taiwan. Johns Hopkins University had predicted that Taiwan would have the world’s second-largest number of cases by the end of January. Currently the country is ranked 152nd. Taiwan has fewer than 450 confirmed cases and seven deaths among a population of almost 24 million.

      Taiwan’s numbers are reliable. Unlike China, Taiwan is a vibrant open democracy led by a popular woman president, Tsai Ing-wen. Taiwan recently became the first country in Asia to legalise gay marriage. After Tsai won a decisive re-election against the China-friendly populist presidential candidate Han Kuo-Yu, voters didn’t stop there. The aspiring demagogue Han would be recalled as mayor of Kaohsiung in a landslide that rocked the nation.

      Taiwan entered the Covid-19 crisis with a Johns Hopkins-trained epidemiologist, Chen Chien-jen, as vice president. Taiwan’s digital minister, the trans hacker activist Audrey Tang, has played a key role in connecting with grassroots youth and pushing back against fake news and disinformation. As in New Zealand, it would be difficult to pull off a cover-up with a conservative opposition party constantly scrounging around for dirt to use against the government.

      https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/17-06-2020/amid-all-nzs-covid-back-patting-lets-not-forget-the-country-that-did-it-first/

      Reply
      • artcroft

         /  20th August 2020

        Sorry but this is just a three paragraph assertion with no supporting evidence. I make the counter assertion that Taiwan is very corrupt, and is locked in a cold war with Beijing that determines everything Taiwan says and does.

        Beijing wants to lock Taiwan out of the World health Organisation and low and behold Taiwan claims to lead the fight against covid. Maybe they do but I’m not going to take the word of Taiwan on this.

        Reply
      • Duker

         /  20th August 2020

        They have developed their contact tracing systems over more than a decade with the epidemics of the 2000s
        Seymour wouldnever support funding that sort of health infrastructure …just in case . You cant do it once a virus has arrived as we have found. If you get 9 out 10 things right. The 10th will undo all the rest.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  20th August 2020

      Mike has raised an interesting point. Given other countries are planning for a vaccine, what is NZ doing? Mike says this could be the next big thing this government stuffs up.

      Talking of vaccines, Australia wants to make vaccination compulsory. They are asking for big trouble should that happen… antivaxxers, human rights advocates and anyone else with a gripe against the government would join forces. Worse, should someone die from vaccination ( that’s a given), the government will be held accountable unless they pass a law absolving them from responsibility.

      The problem for me is I believe National would follow Australia and attempt to make vaccinations compulsory.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  20th August 2020

        We dont have the infrastructure to develop a vaccine on our own, even a collaboration role with another country like Australia which does have a history of vaccine development would be a big cost.
        Hosking shouldnt be a source of nay information whatsoever..hes been proven to be have every possible position on the Covid crisis, unfailingly flip flopping and flipping again as the weeks roll by…

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  20th August 2020

          Yes, I should have been clearer. I thought we not being able to develop a vaccine would be a given.

          What processes have we started for securing a vaccine for NZ? Is it possible we could start making our own vaccine using a different approach? I know a method the would only entail people swallowing a modified sugar pill. Do we have to only think in terms of vaccines to control Covid. Given viruses are dead..and cannot cause Covid, it is clear our understanding of the germ theory is riddled with gaps.

          ”Hosking shouldn’t be a source of nay information whatsoever..hes been proven to be have every possible position on the Covid crisis, unfailingly flip flopping and flipping again as the weeks roll by.”

          Well,that’s arrant bullshit. I have kept an eye on what Mike has been saying. So far he has been RIGHT most of the time. I will bookmark your comment for future reference.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  20th August 2020

            People keep track of his ‘minutes’ you know ..lets go to the archive
            1. We need to stop overreacting to coronavirus
            2. The government shouldn’t be too quick to intervene in the economy
            3. The government should have been quicker to intervene in the economy
            Just over a week later, the man who urged the government to hold its nerve had vanished, replaced by one who couldn’t understand why it hadn’t acted faster.
            4. We need to shut the country down
            After saying the response to Covid-19 amounted to “hysteria” on March 6, Hosking called for the government to put the country into lockdown to deal with the spread of the virus on March 23.
            and the backflip
            5. We didn’t need to shut the country down
            On April 1, Hosking returned to his original point: our fears over coronavirus are overblown. Despite criticising the government for not pushing the country into lockdown fast enough, he went back to saying it was an overreaction to put the country into lockdown.
            https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018741210/mike-hosking-s-many-contradictory-takes-on-covid-19
            This was just up to beginning of April
            hes the clown prince of NZ radio, a masquerade of flip flops
            hehehehe, I love it when I catch Corky out in digging a hole deeper

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  20th August 2020

              ”Hehehehe, I love it when I catch Corky out in digging a hole deeper,”

              The trouble with you, Duker, is you are spinning so much bs you are tripping yourself up. You have forgotten the old adage about a liar having to have a good memory. In this case it also applies to posters.

              If you remember, and it seems you haven’t, we have been over this before.

              And I told you Mike’s comments followed the time line of information available and Confirmed to the public. I mean, if the guy wasn’t reacting to known information he wouldn’t be much of a journalist.

              Pity your gummint didn’t react to information they had available, but didn’t move on. Eg..like Nationals Bluetooth Covid tracking idea.

              Now, as to digging holes, I honestly don’t know how you have the balls to post after being caught out so many times. Now…that’s funny.

              However, I still have you bookmarked, re the vaccination issue. Let’s see who’s right..you or Hoskings. My money is on Hoskings.

      • duperez

         /  20th August 2020

        Hosking lives in a shallow world where the only things that are happening are what are within his view. Everyone else is sitting on their hands, drinking coffee and playing cards.

        “They’re doing nothing’ is a repeated theme. Like a toddler in the early stages of cognitive development, nothing exists unless it is in front of him.

        It’s so easy for him to rubbish what is happening in regards to New Zealand and vaccinations. Months ago his complaint was they hadn’t given any thought to what was going to happen post-covid. Yeah, no-one had even considered there would be a post-covid, all officials and politicians, (except for the opposition ones) were sitting on their hands, drinking coffee and playing cards.

        Unfortunately his mindlessness has a receptive, equally limited audience.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  20th August 2020

          See above.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  20th August 2020

            Funny having to look above to see lower grade comments. 😊 To wit: “Mike’s comments followed the time line of information available.”

            Like the real people, doing real jobs in all aspects of the coronavirus all the way through? Those criticised after whichever decision or event with hindsight? They travelled down the time line of information available but were expected to be 100% right even thought they often were driving blind.

            You magnanimously afford him the luxury and excuse of not getting it right. It’s just a game for him, he’s an entertainer in a consumer exercise. He wouldn’t be much of a journalist? You’re not wrong.

            Again you’re off again on your gummint taking up ideas. Whose ideas do you want them to use? Everyone’s? Because someone’s bound to be right so they should do everything? Just pick those that you agree with? Go with what National says because they know best? But you want them to be decisive, making decisions don’t you? Shouldn’t they trust their decisions?

            At least you learned something off Mike the Oracle. Like him you’re all over the shop.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  20th August 2020

              Lots of words, nothing said: Fact – your gummint stuffed up what should have been rudimentary steps to help stop Covid. Steps like checking all border staff. So simple, even da village idiot would have done it.

              But no, people like you, and the trolls on talkback, continue to spin your wheels. It’s entertaining to a certain point, but then becomes boring.

              Give me Mike the Oracle any day. I’ll put you on the bookmark list with Duker. Grist for the mill at a later date.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  20th August 2020

        Seems absurd to demand compulsory vaccination when only 60% herd immunity apparently suffices to suppress the pandemic.

        Even more absurd seems to be the assumption that those who don’t vaccinate are somehow putting at risk those who do???

        Sadly, absurdities seem to be the order of the day.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  20th August 2020

          Crazy is the new normal, Alan.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  20th August 2020

            Crazy has always been pretty normal, Corky. It just matters more now. When I was young it was crazy religious. Then it went crazy war on drugs. After that it went crazy leaky buildings. Then crazy climate change. Now it is crazy public health. Most of the population loves being crazy.

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  20th August 2020

              Crazy is…. corky is on your side.
              The shit he spurts is yours .

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  20th August 2020

              That’s crazy, Griff.

            • Corky

               /  20th August 2020

              ”Crazy is…. corky is on your side.
              The shit he spurts is yours .”

              Lol… Lefties under pressure … go put some Lithium in water and marvel at the reaction.

  3. Blazer

     /  20th August 2020

    Going rate for ‘talent’-Case study FBU.

    ‘While the hourly rate was far higher than the average worker received, board members were also working longer hours.

    The median hourly rate for a non-executive chairperson was $257, or $60,000 in fees a year for 190 hours’ work, and for a non-executive director it was $219, or $46,700 a year for 147 hours’ work.

    For executive chairs, who were both on the executive and the board, the median hourly rate was $302, or $45,000 a year for 94 hours’ work, and for executive directors it was $242, or $38,500 a year for 97 hours’ work.’-‘WORK’!!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/122502944/pay-cut-nz-directors-now-earning-at-least-median-219-an-hour-survey-shows

    Reply
  4. David

     /  20th August 2020

    Guilty plea from one of the dodgy FBI lawyers who worked for Mueller and Comey in the Obama administration for falsifying a document to obtain a warrant to spy on the Ttump campaign.
    Buckle up snowflakes here we go…finally

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th August 2020

      Meanwhile bi partisan Senate report details ALL the connections between Russians and high level Trump campaign members. Suggesting the FBI was right to investigate if the Russians were running intelligence operations and Trumps people were security risks
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/senate-intelligence-trump-russia-report/2020/08/18/62a7573e-e093-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html
      The FBI lawyer ?
      “Clinesmith was helping to prepare the application, and in doing so, he altered an email which originally stated that Page was a government “source,” as he had publicly claimed. However Clinesmith added words to make it appear that the government agency, which was later revealed to be the CIA, said that Page was “not a source,” according to the Justice Department’s information in the case. At the time, I believed that the information I was providing in the email was accurate,” Clinesmith explained. “But I am agreeing that the information I entered into the email was not originally there, and that I inserted that information.” A small Fry.

      But a Bigger Fish- from the WP link
      “In one of its most startling passages, the report concludes that one of Trump’s core claims of innocence cannot be credited. In written testimony to the team of federal prosecutors led by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, Trump insisted that he could not recall ever discussing the WikiLeaks dumps with political adviser Roger Stone or any other associate…“Despite Trump’s recollection,” the Senate report said, “the committee assesses that Trump did, in fact, speak with Stone about WikiLeaks and with members of his campaign about Stone’s access to WikiLeaks on multiple occasions.”
      The document describes Trump and associates of his campaign as often incapable of candor. It offers new proof that former national security adviser Michael Flynn lied about his conversations with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, raises troubling questions about Manafort’s decision to squander a plea agreement with prosecutors by lying to Mueller’s team, and accuses Blackwater founder Erik Prince of “deceptive” accounts of his meetings with a Russian oligarch in the Seychelles weeks before Trump was sworn into office.”

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  20th August 2020

        In the unlikely event you would like to read a balanced account of the report:
        https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/512613-five-takeaways-from-final-senate-intel-russia-report

        Reply
        • David

           /  20th August 2020

          There used to be a time when folk would be outraged at a government using its spy tools to see what was going on inside an opponents campaign these days its all about what politics does the side being spied on have which determines if its OK.
          And it wasnt about Russia, it never was.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  20th August 2020

            FBI agents are generally conservative and at the time mostly favoured Trump after 8 yrs Obama.

            Reply
            • David

               /  20th August 2020

              Rank and file no doubt but the ones attached to Washington are way to political, especially the FBI lawyers and nearly all of them donated to Hilary.

          • Blazer

             /  20th August 2020

            ‘nothing to hide …nothing to fear’…was peddled by some politicians right here in NZ to justify spying on its own…citizens.

            Reply
    • Corky

       /  20th August 2020

      Yep..over to the poster with a long name..and an obession with Trumpy.

      Reply
  5. Corky

     /  20th August 2020

    Went for a bike ride this morning through a bog standard middleclass suburb. I saw some interesting sights. One house had a sign outside with the word ‘Hebron’ written on it. Underneath that was something written in Hebrew. That was weird I thought given the history.

    Another house had a sign on its fence that read ‘Aroha Whanau.’

    The big reveal for me was the amount of lawns, both front and back, that are being converted into vegetable gardens. I stopped counting at 10 lawns. I don’t know if this is a nationwide trend. This suburb at least believes the writing is on the wall and are preparing.

    The other thing I have noticed is the atmosphere around town – it’s hard to describe. It’s not sad, but borders on that… a type of heaviness. I have heard no belly laughs. Smiles are hard to come by..and many folk have stressed looks on their faces.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  20th August 2020

      Crap weather doesn’t help. Cold, cloudy and wet isn’t conducive to happy smiles. Had to tow stepdaughter out of the mud last night. Trouble is her car still has city tyres on it though it is all wheel drive. Will get a decent tread when they wear out.

      Rental agency tried to get me to sign up to hospital level infection control cleaning standards. I said no. It would be impossible to guarantee 100% compliance leaving us liable if anything went wrong. I said guests who want that level of assurance (which is probably delusional anyway) must go elsewhere.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  20th August 2020

        How did the rental agency take you declining them?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  20th August 2020

          Haven’t had a reply yet. May not get one. I suspect most guests are more interested in getting a refund if they have to cancel because of a sudden random lockdown.

          Reply
    • Blazer

       /  20th August 2020

      ‘I stopped counting at 10 lawns’

      You should have stopped and taken your socks off..you may have got to…20!

      Reply
  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  20th August 2020

    Finally the Nats are requiring what has been blindingly obvious since the beginning of this disaster – international arrivals should have to get a negative virus test result before boarding the plane.

    Unbelievable this has taken so long to become policy.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th August 2020

      Incubation period could be a week plus…
      Wishful thinking on nationals part as it will still let infected people into NZ and as we have just found ONE SINGLE case can be undetected for 2 weeks and then 10 days later its 50 cases if they move around the country.
      We already have people who are negative test on arrival but 2nd test is positive

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  20th August 2020

        If it cuts the number of infectious cases coming into the country by 75% that will be a big reduction in quarantine, testing and contact tracing costs.

        Reply
        • duperez

           /  20th August 2020

          I appreciate ever single infected person not getting in is vital.

          Just been talking to a couple who got back in the past 6 weeks and ran the only negative tested to be allowed to board a plane scenario past them.

          Trying to understand how it works. You get a negative test result before boarding the plane. You have the test, go into isolation for however long until your result comes back. Then you get in a taxi, go to the airport, do whatever needs to be done there, deal with who has to be dealt with and get on the plane. Are you still virus free as when you had a test?

          You arrive here then go into quarantine and are part of the testing regime to do with that. Given what I said and Duker’s comments, is the ‘no negative test no get on plane thing’ simply a golden bullet being floated for political purposes? Surely real analysis would suggest that the logistics don’t back up the notion being put out that it is a way for an impenetrable wall to be created. Sounds good and will buy a few votes though.

          It’s easy to say the border thing has been a shambles and the system has holes in it. This one should be off to the darners and it hasn’t even been on a foot yet.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  20th August 2020

            There is maybe 5 per day out of 400 arrivals who test positive ( under our conditions)
            Those 5 per day would be excluded from plane if they test positive overseas
            Thats going to make a big difference in quarantine ?
            Its so ludicrous it must be nationals idea.
            The other proposal is
            ‘Establishing ‘Te Korowai Whakamaru/NZ Border Protection Agency’ to provide comprehensive oversight and management of COVID-19..etc

            That will come out of thin air apparently from the people who couldnt even properly oversight of underground coal mines , thus Pike River disaster.
            Couldnt even fund the Police road safety – diverted money to the RoNS- so that the long decline in road deaths came to a halt from 2011 and then rose after 2015.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  20th August 2020

              That’s five per day who won’t infect anyone else on their plane.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  20th August 2020

              It would likely reduce the risk to the point where a clear test on arrival could allow release to self isolation with a couple of follow up tests thus massively eliminating quarantine requirements.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  20th August 2020

            Not impenetrable, simply better. I don’t think pre-flight isolation is required or appropriate.

            Reply
    • Blazer

       /  20th August 2020

      Apparently it creates even more Bureaucracy…Al…Bol.

      Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  20th August 2020

    Evidence lockdowns don’t work:
    https://croakingcassandra.com/2020/08/20/choices-and-options-public-and-private/

    Sweden will be claimed as a counter example.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th August 2020

      Compare Sweden with its near neighbours … other countries left it too late.
      The NY example is
      1) left it too late but 2) death numbers fell very quickly
      Sweden currently has the natural decline from summer weather, ( acts as a natural social distancer and virus lives longer in cold air) the virus will be increasing as they head into their harsh winters.

      Reply
  8. duperez

     /  20th August 2020

    Can’t think why there is a bit of a housing problem:

    “To put it another way, in just the four years from 2013 to 2017, Auckland’s population grew by 260,000. That’s two Dunedins in four years and Auckland had plenty more growing to do after 2017.”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12355145

    “In the 2006-13 period, the total net gain was 35,000. Large net outflows, especially to Australia (remember the loss of 53,800 departing permanently for Australia in 2012 alone) has been followed by a period of the highest inward migration ever, and the highest net gains : 330,000 between 2013 and 2018.”

    https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/106502/massey-universitys-paul-spoonley-says-we-need-have-comprehensive-and-informed

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  20th August 2020

      Amazing then that the Clark Government managed to achieve the highest house price inflation in the period of lowest population increase.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  20th August 2020

        I’m trying to work out what’s wrong with high house price inflation. If I owned 11 houses at one time in that period, look how much I made.

        Reply
        • It’s only wrong to the envious who don’t own houses and hate it that other people had the gumption to do so.

          Of course one has to take things like the fact that mortgages mean that one pays back a lot more than the house price, but against that is the probable rise in the house’s value.

          Reply
      • Alan Foster

         /  20th August 2020

        Due to most immigrants moving to Auckland. In dollar terms, the highest increase was during Key’s term. My wealth in property increased by $1 million from 2010 to 2016, All tax free as well !!

        Reply
        • Well done, you. You saw an opportunity and took it…

          A friend scraped up a bit under the deposit needed and persuaded the bank to let him buy an apartment as an investment…I can’t remember what it cost and don’t know what it’s worth now, but his chance-taking was worth it.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  20th August 2020

            How do you figure that?

            ‘I can’t remember what it cost and don’t know what it’s worth now, but his chance-taking was worth it.’

            Typical KC ‘logic’.Hopeless.

            Reply
            • Bollocks.You can’t be that ignorant of the way that property owning works.

              I know that it’s worth quite a few times what he paid for it; that’s enough. Surely you know enough about property owning to work that out.

              It couldn’t possibly have meant that the apartment was worth LESS than he paid for it. No one would think that THAT was a great investment and worth it. I don’t know how many times more it’s worth than it cost, but know that the rent he gets is market rent although the mortgage went down in real terms over the years and the rents, of course, didn’t. No one keeps renting a place out at the same rate for decades. But the mortgage doesn’t increase with the rent, it decreases. No one’s generous enough to charge tenants the same as the mortgage.

              If you owned a house, you would know that unless one is very unlucky, it will increase in value. But you must be aware that rents are market rates and keep going up, unlike mortgage payments (allowing for interest rates changes, of course)

              My house is worth much more than I paid for it. In my case it’s academic, because other houses have also risen in price. If I sold and moved, I’d be paying the current rate for a house, so it’s a gain on paper.

              But how do you work out that buying something that increases in value to the extent that Auckland property prices have as well as bringing in a nice income is not a worthwhile investment ?

            • Blazer

               /  20th August 2020

              To work out your equation you need to know the original cost,the holding costs and the present market value.

              You confess you know none of these ,but insist that your assumption that all property rises makes the deal a profitable one.

              I can inform you that a number of apartments lost their market value big time due to factors like leaky building syndrome.

              Unless you are in possession of pertinent facts you should refrain from commenting.

            • Duker

               /  20th August 2020

              Yes. The land component of apartments is tiny, while that of house s are larger. Which part do you think they aren’t making any more of.

      • Blazer

         /  20th August 2020

        2000_2003..Housing was in the doldrums. %increase distorted.

        Reply
  9. lurcher1948

     /  20th August 2020

    Wow,i have watched Kamala Harris speak at the convention,and didnt she speak well, no CHILDISH BABY INSULTS like someone we ALL KNOW, and they said shes a person of colour… donald trump is a person of colour, a face spray of cheap orange, with a bad comb-over,Harris is tanned,trump is an orange freak looking white person…with childish insults

    Reply

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