Open Forum Thursday

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86 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  27th August 2020

    “Gone by lunchtime” Nationals battlecry,you want it gone,its…gone

    Reply
  2. Jack

     /  27th August 2020

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12359682

    “…he told Tarrant that his idea to breed hate between religions has failed.”

    I disagree.

    From what I gather Tarrant is not able to identify himself with any religion. I don’t think he had a plan to breed hate, rather he acted upon a warped judgement concerning cultural issues as he saw it.

    We have had discussions here before about how we want our Kiwi culture to develop. The general consensus is along the lines of love and tolerance.

    Between the lines I hear our grieving Muslim Kiwis talk of hate quite a bit. To me it feels like they want to intimidate Kiwis into being ‘loving’ and ‘tolerant’. This is cult and I cringe away from every cult.

    What is the ‘how’ regarding Kiwi culture? I sure don’t buy into the narrative that Islam is a peaceful religion, despite the sermons. Cults lie.

    I want all future generations of Kiwis to be free to say, “that’s not my God” (in reference to any political group which is growing in unfairness and/or hatred.) love coerced does not come from Love.

    Kiwis need to find the how.
    Like Tarrant, I also am unable to identify myself with any religion.
    Church is not a religion. She is the only non political group on earth – the body of Christ.
    Christianity is a cult too. (This is partly how I make sense of my notion to blame the churches that terrorism struck us down.)

    Reply
    • “I sure don’t buy into the narrative that Islam is a peaceful religion”

      Religions aren’t peaceful or violent. People are.

      The vast majority of Muslims (and people of other religions and non-religious people) are peaceful. This has certainly been the case in New Zealand.

      Tarrant did try to drive hate and division. He may have encouraged a very small number of radical nutters, but largely failed.

      His united nearly everyone in New Zealand in denouncing and condemning him and his despicable, abhorrent crimes against innocent people.

      The freedom to follow any religion in New Zealand is an important part of our culture, despite some isolated sniping from people of different religions.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  27th August 2020

        Sooner or later every religion gets violent Pete. It’s Politics.

        Reply
        • Jack

           /  27th August 2020

          It seems Tarrant did not try to drive hate and division. He simply was spewing it as a loner.
          My comment was re religion of which Tarrant appears to have none.
          The issue here is growing our Kiwi culture of love and tolerance. It won’t happen via religion.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  27th August 2020

            Religion requires organised Politics = Cult
            The body of Christ has no formal politics save what comes from one individual. That’s neither cult nor religion.
            Many Kiwis are spiritually confused. To borrow from Duperez –
            “hypocrisy sees propriety and standards as mere commodities” To my mind, this describes the churches. The churches’ failures are spiritually tied up with this act of terrorism and religious nutters attack individual Christians who lovingly say so.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  27th August 2020

              One man cult right here….talks disjointed christian beliefs as though it makes sense…how long before he starts to be ‘ a vessel from God’ with divine commands

      • Jack

         /  27th August 2020

        “He united nearly everyone in New Zealand in denouncing and condemning him and his despicable, abhorrent crimes against innocent people.”
        Sounds like the religion of Humanism. A cult.
        Sad, and scary, when individual Kiwis rely on the crowd for decency.
        My original comment was about the how of Kiwi culture. So soon, the discourse turns to religion?

        Reply
      • He did say that he wanted to create hate and division, but he has failed dismally.

        Do stop saying ‘Church.’ when you mean ‘the church’. It sounds very silly and is quite annoying, like Destiny talking about Bishop (as in ‘Bishop says…..’)

        Your use of the word ‘cult’ is inconsistent.

        We all know your views on religion, cross-carrying etc; change the record, the needle’s stuck on that one.

        Reply
        • Jack

           /  27th August 2020

          I do mean Church, and say so.
          You do not know my views on cross carrying nearly enough – presuming that’s why you engaged me again.
          Kitty, sometimes the hatred here is palpable. I’m out again – need to detox.
          God bless

          Reply
    • duperez

       /  27th August 2020

      Between the lines you hear ‘our grieving Muslim Kiwis’ talk of hate quite a bit?

      Mmm, wonder why that is?

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  27th August 2020

        Speak your mind Dup, like me

        Reply
        • Jack

           /  27th August 2020

          Funny how when a committed participant in the churches finally reacts to decades worth of cruel provocation and cries “cult!” too many non churched (and churchy’s of course) Kiwis join the fray in blaming the victim.
          Can’t even tell when someone is on the same page as you. Must be so far Left as to leave your own mind in the middle, fractured.
          Yes, a few Muslims are seething with hatred. Watch and listen. And don’t allow Islam a political foothold in NZ – please.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  27th August 2020

            We certainly don’t want people seething with hatred and wallowing in ignorance to be allowed into NZ and certainly don’t want them gaining a political foothold in NZ do we?

            After all we’ve spent a couple of hundred years developing our own special brand of those. Why should we share the space?

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  27th August 2020

              I’ve been trying to tell you we’re on the same page! I agree with you.

        • Blazer

           /  27th August 2020

          your mind-Church-God-Cult-Kiwi-ME.-constantly on…replay.

          Reply
          • MaureenW

             /  27th August 2020

            Thanks for the clarification. .. I thought it was ME . Church . God . Kiwi . Cult.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  27th August 2020

              I knew it was you being a PDT all these days Maureen. Clarified! Kitty coined that term – suppose you knew?

              “The first resort of the (sic) is always the personal attack. If that fails, find a squirrel.” Thanks Al.

            • MaureenW

               /  27th August 2020

              I was commenting to Blazer, no need to butt in.

        • duperez

           /  27th August 2020

          I wrote that simply with the notion that it may get people to consider your contention.

          Between the lines you hear ‘our grieving Muslim Kiwis’ talk of hate quite a bit? (Between what lines?)

          Why would any Muslims here talk about hate either between or outside lines? Apparently there was a full blown daylight attack and massacre of people at their churches. Any reason to think that talk of hate might emanate from that, either between or outside lines?

          On here recently someone posted that no Muslims should have been allowed into New Zealand after 2002. (Think that was the date maybe was ‘early 2000s’.) Any reason to think that sort of feeling being in the community might see talk of hate either between or outside lines?

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  27th August 2020

            Not at all. There’s no need for hate talk when we’re making political decisions. Should be no need to feel obliged to read between the lines either. It’s called Transparency in Politics.

            Reply
  3. Duker

     /  27th August 2020

    The Facists have arrived was the comment yesterday about a peaceful march in Washington DC -that had photos of protesters badgering a woman outside a cafe

    “However, video taken before the shooting shows police tossing bottled water from an armored vehicle to what appear to be [white] armed civilians walking the streets. One of them appears to be Rittenhouse. ”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8667265/Gunman-17-charged-Kenosha-fatal-shootings.html
    Gunman, 17, is charged with first degree intentional homicide after shooting dead two BLM protesters in Kenosha as one victim is identified and video emerges of cops giving rifle-toting vigilantes water before the shooting
    As usual its the white supremacists who are committing the extreme violence ( as we know in NZ)

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  27th August 2020

      Notice the gloves,to avoid fingerprints and it’s so normal to see a 17 yo with a AK47 firing on the streets..the USA is in decline.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  27th August 2020

        Too many Kiwis have fractured minds, deserted them to the middle ground while they (me,me,me) wandered off on tangents, heedless – dim witted
        There soon won’t be enough minds in the middle to do all the mending

        Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  27th August 2020

      Actually most extreme violence in the US is committed by non-whites as shown by homicide statistics.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th August 2020

      “The Facists have arrived was the comment yesterday about a peaceful march in Washington DC -that had photos of protesters badgering a woman outside a cafe”

      I’m loving your use of the words peaceful and badgering.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  27th August 2020

        One protest had two people killed and others wounded …whats you description of the person responsible?

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  27th August 2020

          We don’t know that now do we? There is a process by which this is decided.

          You wouldn’t want to jump the gun and make a dick of yourself now would you?

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  27th August 2020

          Well, what do you know. One of the peaceful protester who was shot.

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  27th August 2020

          Well, well, well.

          Reply
        • Pink David

           /  28th August 2020

          This gets better and better. The defense will have a field day.

          Reply
          • Better? I see nothing good in all of this.

            You seem to think it’s a contest between people you support and people you oppose.

            Heavily armed young people on the streets, encouraged by people safe behind their computers, is unlikely to turn out well for anyone.

            And with a tone deaf president seemingly interested only in his own chances in the election there’s a real possibility of anarchy, localised at least. I see a grim outlook for the US the way things are going. Nothing better about it, it is looking worse and worse.

            Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th August 2020

      Just seen the video of this, he is almost certainly going to have a very solid self-defense case. He was on the ground and being attacked at the time of the shooting.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  27th August 2020

        From what I can see he was attacked. He then took care of business. Any sensible jury would find him not guilty. But that’s the problem isn’t it; getting a jury that isn’t woke. Jury selection will be a tense affair.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  27th August 2020

          He was attacked after firing at people in street. Hes not even from Wisconsin

          “The authorities said the white teenager who was arrested Wednesday morning, identified as Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, was not believed to be a protester. His social media accounts appeared to show an intense affinity for guns, law enforcement and President Trump.”

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  27th August 2020

          “A Washington Post journalist who observed the scene saw the man with the rifle run by with a few protesters in pursuit after gunfire erupted about a block away. He tripped and fell, rolled into a sitting position, raised his gun and opened fire at his pursuers.”

          We will probably find video of the first gunfire event….Im sure he was one of the shooters there as well if not the only one.

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  27th August 2020

            “We will probably find video of the first gunfire event….Im sure he was one of the shooters there as well if not the only one.”

            Reply
          • Pink David

             /  27th August 2020

            The moments before and after.

            Reply
          • Pink David

             /  27th August 2020

            The first one shot is also the who who was chasing Rittenhouse and was also the one who threw a molotov cocktail at him.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  27th August 2020

              What happened before the pursuit shown here?
              What was he doing in the town, he lives elsewhere, across the state line.
              Why were the police allowing white vigilantes to be armed and on the streets like that ..
              A black man with a semi like that would be shot by the police, after all there is a curfew in place.

            • Pink David

               /  27th August 2020

              “What was he doing in the town, he lives elsewhere, across the state line.”

              Kenosha is on the state line. It’s part of greater Chicago and Chicago is in a different state.

              Did you think to look at a map?

              “Why were the police allowing white vigilantes to be armed and on the streets like that”

              Why are they allowing armed rioters to burn down the town?

              “A black man with a semi like that would be shot by the police”

              Complete bullshit. There have been hundreds of examples of black people defending their homes and businesses with AR15 in recent weeks, completely untouched by police because it’s perfectly legal.

            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              He wasnt defending his home, and he had left the car dealership he was hanging around to ‘protect’ – doesnt work there either.
              Kenosha is closer to Milwaukee than Chicago

              “A group calling itself the “Kenosha Guard” had earlier posted a call on Facebook asking “Any patriots willing to take up arms and defend [our] City tonight from the evil thugs?”

            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              Crossing state lines with an illegal gun and then fleeing across state borders after committing murder is taken very seriously
              Good luck with trying to say it was ‘only 12 mile’s

              Not completely sure why his assault rifle is illegal in Illinois but it may be because of his age -17

              AS we know in NZ some people in the Mosque attacked the killer after he shot many people , the killer cant claim self defense in those circumstances

            • Pink David

               /  28th August 2020

              “Crossing state lines with an illegal gun and then fleeing across state borders after committing murder is taken very seriously”

              He did not flee across a state boarder. He handed himself in on the scene.

              ” the killer cant claim self defense in those circumstances”

              Correct. That is not the situation in this case.

            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              Did not hand himself in . He has been arrested and held in his home town …Illinois, and has to be extradited to Wisconsin
              “Police in Antioch, Ill., about 20 miles southwest of Kenosha, said they had arrested Kyle Rittenhouse in the killings. The Antioch resident was charged with first-degree intentional homicide in Wisconsin, authorities said,..”

            • Pink David

               /  28th August 2020

              The court case is going to be fun. If they go for first degree he will walk without blinking.

            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              He could try that …or get life without parole.. death penalty was abolished in Wisconsin in 1853, the first US state to do so

              Intent can be hard to prove…but these can be factors, fugitive across state line, illegal gun , killing a person who was trying to disarm him after he killed another person.
              Who do you think are going to be a whole string of first hand witnesses , his supporters ?
              Dont make me laugh

            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              “The first one shot is also the who who was chasing Rittenhouse and was also the one who threw a molotov cocktail at him.”

              You have it back to front ….that was the second and 3rd people people shot , one of whom died.
              The first person shot in the head.. was the incident which sparked the chase ..to disarm him

        • lurcher1948

           /  27th August 2020

          Corky the murderer was 17 from another state,was a police/trump lover who didn’t come to spread love he came with a gun to kill,because why bring an assult weapon….its NOT normal for children to have ak47s and murder two people except in your mind and most people here probably wonder whether you should actually analyse your posts before pushing send
          PS woke is such stupid word used by woke people
          PPS refer to my post from yesterday

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  27th August 2020

            I watched the video.. you should do likewise. But then you don’t support self defence do you. You are a Andy Little clone.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  27th August 2020

              Lurcher cheers it on when it’s other peoples lives and business being burned to the ground. He would scream murder if it was his own.

            • Fight4nz

               /  27th August 2020

              Does self defence stand if you’re the original aggressor?

            • Pink David

               /  28th August 2020

              You must be referring to the rioters who were using Molotov cocktails to burn down people’s businesses?

              That is the original aggression is it not.

            • Fight4nz

               /  28th August 2020

              So the 17yo owned a business in the area?

            • Pink David

               /  28th August 2020

              David Dorn was murdered protecting a business he did not own some weeks back. There is no requirement to be the owner.

          • Pink David

             /  27th August 2020

            “from another state”

            He drove 14 miles. But you knew that already didn’t you.

            “.its NOT normal for children to have ak47s and murder two people except in your mind”

            What’s normal behavior when people are rioting, looting and burning down the towns you live in? Do you just cower in your home and let them do it?

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              He didnt live in Kenosha or work there either … while he was hanging around a car dealership with some others ‘protecting it’ he left that area and wasnt allowed back .

              The video you showed of him being chased was after he had shot someone in the head – the first victim

            • Pink David

               /  28th August 2020

              “The video you showed of him being chased was after he had shot someone in the head ”

              Untrue. The first video of him running is the second incident, which happens a few moments after the first, The first is next in the sequence. He is again attacked and chased and attacked in both situations. The NYT has a very clear summary of the events. Remarkable how clear the timeline is so early.

            • Duker

               /  28th August 2020

              The first incident doesnt show any running, he shots a man in the head, who dies, then runs away and is chased by people trying to disarm and he shoots again , hitting 2 people one of who dies
              None of these events occur while ‘he is protecting someone else property in a town he doesnt live’ nor is it self defense to shoot after committing a crime

              “A complaint filed in Lake County, Ill., by the Antioch police described Rittenhouse as a fugitive, saying that he had been charged with homicide in Wisconsin and fled “with the intent to avoid prosecution for that offense.” According to minutes from a hearing on Wednesday, he was held without bond and a hearing on Friday will address his potential extradition to Wisconsin.”

      • Patzcuaro

         /  27th August 2020

        I think that the Kenosha Police Department should be charged with inciting a riot.

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th August 2020

      Peaceful protest in Kenosha.

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th August 2020

      “The Facists have arrived was the comment yesterday about a peaceful march in Washington DC”

      The new peaceful

      Reply
    • Pink David

       /  28th August 2020

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  28th August 2020

        This is going to be interesting

        “People’s Revolution Movement.”

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  28th August 2020

          Chasing after him because he had shot and killed another person
          Self defense doesnt include those circumstances , which happened in Christchurch with the Mosque killer, people tried to grab a gun off him or threw items at him.

          Rittenhouse fled the scene across a state line to avoid prosecution, his gun was illegal ( hes too young to have an Illinois state permit)

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  28th August 2020

            Wisconsin is an open carry State but Rittenhouse was to young to do so, and he was in a ‘gun free zone’ as well.
            Thats on top of the Illinois gun restrictions for a person under 21.

            The people in pursuit of the gunman after the first shooting are permitted to detain a fleeing felon for the police or otherwise disarm him.
            Self defense isnt going to work here , Rittenhouse was not at his home or beside the car dealers yard he was supposed to be defending ..his job was with YMCA in Chicago

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  28th August 2020

              “Self defense isnt going to work here ”

              You are going to find the outcome of his trial quite perplexing.

  4. Corky

     /  27th August 2020

    Kerre played an interview Mike had with someone from the Federated Farmers. Apparently the gummint has mandated under new legislation that regional councils will measure the depth of hoof prints on farms to see if farming practices are complying with
    new waterways legislation.

    This is how dopey this fugging government is. Remember Shane Jones’s shower nozzle laughfest. That was a hoot before he got the chop if I remember correctly. Let’s hope similar happens here with Labour.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  27th August 2020

      Truly bonkers if true but unfortunately believable from the loony Left who know nothing about anything but want a rule for everything.

      Reply
  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  27th August 2020

    Jacinda comments on an active court case hoping to refurbish her tiara.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12360009

    Reply
    • At least she didn’t buy into the ‘closure’ nonsense.
      When asked if it would bring closure to the country, Ardern had a simple response.

      “I don’t think anything removes what happened that day.”
      ‘Closure to the country’ is a far worse concept than personal closure, but both are nonsensical..

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  27th August 2020

        Yes, it’s just another step on the path. Solving a mystery can be a partial closure but often opens other doors.

        Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  27th August 2020

    Ms Collins is bringing back nasty right leaning policies from the past,a win at the next election for St PM Jacinda Ardern and Ms Collins put back in the crypt till the next National leader.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300092612/90day-trials-would-return-but-lunchtime-gone-by-lunchtime-under-national-small-business-policy

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  27th August 2020

      Unbelievable from the Greens with the election approaching.

      They got alot of sympathy votes last time but may struggle to reach 5 % with this sort of dumbness.

      Reply

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