Open Forum Sunday

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80 Comments

  1. Patzcuaro

     /  6th September 2020
    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  6th September 2020

      Saint Jacinda Ardern who protects,and has your back and will never take your rest and meal breaks of you like that other wannabe challengers party.🤨

      Reply
      • She also increased the number of people who need emergency housing by 300% or thereabouts, her lockdowns have made unemployment and failed business numbers rise and keep rising, poverty has increased, not decreased….

        She has taken people’s jobs and incomes off them and increased the national debt to an extent that it will take generations to pay it back.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th September 2020

          Lockdowns supported by National and Act…that leaves you only with JLR and Billy T as your fellow travellers in selfishland

          Reply
          • You must know by now that they supported the original idea of one four weeks lockdown, not the extension that made it almost twice that and did so much harm.

            Have you not heard about the enormous damage done to Auckland by the latest lockdown and that businesses are really suffering and many will have to close? Or that people are going hungry and need charity to provide them with food ?

            National and ACT did not support the testing of a tiny number of border workers and lying that they had all been done (or even, as the PM claimed, that they had refused the tests that they hadn’t been offered and had been asking to have)

            They didn’t support people being sent on a fool’s errand to be tested because the MoH said that 700,000 people should be tested (and the PM said that people shouldn’t believe what they see on social media, although it was the MoH who put it there)

            They didn’t support the gross incompetency that endangered so many people.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  6th September 2020

              Thats rubbish ..the 4 week was only extendeda few days to allow time for the level 3 to be implemented and ‘start the week’
              Midnight 25th March ( wed) to Midnight 27th April(Sun)
              No wonder your cognitive ability is questioned, just like Trumps

              Nats and ACT supported the 4 weeks then flip flopped to have it shorter and they suffered in the polls accordingly .
              Collins now avoids any mention of ‘ending lockdowns’ – which they support

    • Fight4nz

       /  6th September 2020

      https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/08/17/903157458/south-korea-faces-new-spike-in-covid-19-after-months-of-low-infection-rates
      Developments in South Korea ominous after cults decide that the whole Covid thing is a hoax and make up their own rules.

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  6th September 2020

        A number of Christian organizations around the world seem more concern with their rights with little regard for social responsibility. All me and little US.

        Reply
      • Jack

         /  6th September 2020

        Nasty god/God (take your pick) stuff. If it makes you cringe, imagine what it’s doing to him

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  6th September 2020

          Usually it is the institution and people in that are the problem not God.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  6th September 2020

            So true Patz. I would say always.
            I wish to add, as a generality, that if the Christian fellowship you’re involved with is not perfect in your eyes then it indicates you’re not carrying your cross. It means you’re on a cult slide.
            Church is not an institution

            Reply
    • I can’t see how Taiwan isn’t the safest or why Germany is the safest; it should be the other way round. Or are death rates not considered in the equation ?

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  6th September 2020

        Perhaps Forbes didn’t want to upset the Chinese government, they are a little sensitive about their “renegade province”. Taiwan is not recognized as a country by the U.N.

        Reply
  2. David

     /  6th September 2020

    Alison Mau makes some interesting points but the name suppression of the guy who misbehaved at the Labour youth camp I feel is wrong. [I don’t want any discussion on anything under court non publication (suppression) orders whether it is correct, incorrect or otherwise – PG] but apparently I could be wrong but someone in that position is being unfairly besmirched which is always the problem with name suppression.
    Part of the deterrent and the punishment has always been the public naming of the crook but more and more people are getting name suppression and the Labour guy got it because of the social media pile on. That is a crazy reason, if its that bad then turn off your social media or dont read the comments its that simple.
    Better still just behave yourself and let the publicity of this rooster be the deterrent to others and then more young people may avoid being victims.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300099878/final-act-of-labour-youth-camp-case-could-be-a-gamechanger

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  6th September 2020

      [I don’t want any discussion on anything under court non publication (suppression) orders whether it is correct, incorrect or otherwise – PG]

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  6th September 2020

      Mau praising name suppression for (Lefty) sex offenders, Vance complaining about people calling the PM Cindy, Extinction Rebellion blockading newspapers in Britain, Louise Nicholson complaining a convicted sex offending actor is allowed to produce a play – just another day in paradise for the loony Left.

      Reply
      • David

         /  6th September 2020

        I was surprised Mau is more concerned about the perpetrator on social media than the victims, it seems politics is more important than all the work she has been doing over the last several years.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  6th September 2020

          Politics is always everything for the Left.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  6th September 2020

            😊

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  6th September 2020

              Can you imagine Mau writing the same column had it been a National party affray?

          • Patzcuaro

             /  6th September 2020

            Whereas power is everything for the right.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  6th September 2020

              If you mean individual freedom and responsibility I agree.

            • Duker

               /  6th September 2020

              Another entry for the file ‘Facism has arrived because foot path diners at cafe were harassed’
              At protests the other day after another black man died in police custody some months back in Rochester

              Soon after, two cars drove into a crowd of demonstrators, knocking at least two people to the ground. In videos shared on Twitter, the driver of at least one car can be seen spraying demonstrators with an irritant and racing away.

          • duperez

             /  6th September 2020

            Can you imagine anyone having a go at her if at every instance she chanted ‘Politics is always everything for the Left’ or ‘Power is everything for the right’?

            She would rightfully be mocked and derided.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  6th September 2020

              Why on earth would she need to chant what she automatically practises?

        • Jack

           /  6th September 2020

          Mau wasn’t interested in my important case. So I gently questioned that, then she got huffy. Vitriolic. A bit confusing – she writes in a convincing fashion, as though she cares. In my case she behaved as though she needed to protect the world from me, one victim. It’s only certain stories that make her grade, something to do with glory I think

          Reply
        • Jack

           /  6th September 2020

          Social media should only ever be policed by society, with very few laws attached to it.
          The abusive young man has been denied a chance to learn the hard way.
          The only things we need protected from are suggestions to suicide and various forms of violence, spitting included

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  6th September 2020

            He was discharged without conviction…. as far as the Justice system goes he has no criminal record

            Reply
      • “loony left” … angry old white man who complains about “cancel culture” uses it to deprecate views that are different to his own.

        Reply
      • Jack

         /  6th September 2020

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362213
        Morbid and dark. Might be worthwhile if the storyline included how his victims found laughter and light. I doubt very much that his work will lighten the load of those with suicidal thoughts. Hopefully no harm in people seeing for themselves.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th September 2020

          No wonder they ‘disestablished’ Louise Nichols…I can see how no one was listening anymore

          Reply
      • Kimbo

         /  6th September 2020

        Loved this piece of breezy insouciant gas-lighting from Mau:

        ”The case also helped force Labour examine its culpability and do better and do better on issues of sexual harassment, assault, and bullying and ensure its complaints procedures and rules on alcohol and host responsibility are up to scratch.”

        Yeah, coz if it had happened in a National or ACT political youth function, there is just no way that “toxic”, “systemic”, “institutional” and “misogyny” would have appeared instead of the tame, “helped”, “do better”, “ensure”, and “up to scratch”. 🙄

        Reply
      • Kimbo

         /  6th September 2020

        Oh, yes, and apologies forgetting the crowd favourite that was meant to be the target of Mau’s efforts these last few years…”rape culture”. 😬

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th September 2020

          The blossoms are out and a stray bee has got in your bonnet.
          Dont you think its a bit ‘ethereal’ to criticise for something you have imagined…. after all certain senior MP and his paramours in the offices of the national party in parliament are a bit higher up the ladder than a callow drunken youth, who wasnt even a party member, at a weekend camp.

          Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  6th September 2020

            Not even tempted to entertain that sort of toleration of rape culture. But clearly you are, so knock yourself out…

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  6th September 2020

              The bee has got into your mouth now…
              Since you werent there , lets go to the complainat who was

              ‘It was “drinking for the goal of getting absolutely hammered”, he said, even though he had signed a form to say he wouldn’t consume alcohol at the event.

              On the night of the alleged offending, the defendant was dancing on a table and ripped his shirt off while dancing, the court heard.

              At one point during the night, the complainant took some photos with the defendant underneath a banner bearing Labour’s 2017 election slogan, “Let’s do this”, when he was allegedly touched inappropriately.

              “I looked around and removed his [the defendant’s] hand pretty quickly,” the complainant said.

              He said he didn’t really feel “threatened” at that point and thought the defendant was drunk and “being a bit of an idiot”.

              However, the defendant later touched him again, he said, causing the complainant to tell him to stop and to “go away”.

              The complainant also recalled laughing off the defendant’s behaviour, but said it was “extremely bizarre” and it “felt weird”.

              I’ll be the first to admit that this type of incident is low-scale offending,</b" HE told the court.

              The court found that NO sexual offence had occured.
              So stick that in your rape culture bonnet ( that you hijacked from Mau and Nichols…laughable)… you of all people , outraged suddenly
              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115507696/labour-youth-camp-trial-indecent-assault-charges-withdrawn-accused-pleads-guilty-to-assault
              I think the misogyny words was from ..you know actual people there for the Young ACT complaints
              “Young Act vice-president resigns, claiming sexual harassment
              “For months I have been sexually harassed, slutshamed, and ignored.”
              Gammeter, who is from Victoria University, said in the tweet she was “not the only victim of this behaviour in our ranks”.
              hmmm a Vice President
              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330137

            • Kimbo

               /  6th September 2020

              Sorry, since when is “the court found NO…” (caps lock noted) “…sexual offence had occurred” a rebuttal of “rape culture”?! Especially when, as per Mau’s own summation, the case “helped force Labour…do better on issues of sexual assault”. That’s her call, not yours, mine, the judges, nor the verdict (which I am not disputing, btw, and actually, on balance, name suppression is probably the right decision).

              Nonetheless as per my point, it is Mau’s selective morality that is obnoxious. Typical left wing gaslighting on the misogyny issue. When it occurs in a realm of the political spectrum with which the Woke media likely disagree “systemic” gets trotted out, as too do the undoubted examples of right wing politicians who have crossed the line, and a “root and branch” demand for radical change.

              But on the other side of the political divide? Sanctimonious twaddle and double standards about how an amorphous “we” should all take note and responsibility concerning the example in question, including internet culture (?!) and the accompanying soft soap “helped…do better…up to scratch.”

              And why, while their may have been merit in Mau’s initial project, it’s credibility has been forfeited by her hypocrisy. Time for others to pick up the mantle.

            • Kimbo

               /  6th September 2020

              And this as an example from Mau regarding Judith Collins’ actions after Andrew Falloon’s actions and accompanying lies came to light:

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300061996/national-mp-andrew-falloon-scandal-lets-not-forget-the-women-affected-by-this

              …and Mau, with typical arrogance concludes that there are things “that Collins can and should do immediately if we…” (really, Ali? Just wondering who appointed you the arbiter and judge of morality and credibility? How about you just speak for…yourself?) “…are to take her icy outrage on the telly seriously”.

            • Duker

               /  6th September 2020

              We know how concerned Collins was about the Women
              First of all shes believes the MP fully until she pricks up ears to hear what probably was known in wider circles
              “”Andrew Falloon is still a human being, and he has a family.”
              and
              ‘Asked whether there was a culture problem in the National Party, Collins said “there are sections of society where excess alcohol use and pornography are an issue”.
              “The National Party is part of society, we like any other organisation will have people who fail that test.”

              So shes admitted that …its a society problem.
              There you have a full gaslighting , no wonder Mau said there was ‘more she could do ‘
              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/421663/judith-collins-believes-ex-mp-andrew-falloon-lied-over-indecent-image-message

            • Kimbo

               /  6th September 2020

              And contrast that with Mau’s assessment of Labour when a parliamentary senior staffer was accused of sexual harassment:

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115064334/alison-mau

              “The much bigger issue is how Labour, other political parties and beyond that Parliament can transform into safe working environments free from bullying and harassment

              Ah, I see what you did there! And let me be very clear I have no problems with Collins’ actions, including those regarding Andrew Falloon being put under the blow torch, and her credibility being tested…when that is the issue at hand.

              So back to Mau and the Labour Party being held to similar account:

              I think… Oh, now there’s a change. No royal “we” from the mountain top this time! …Labour has seriously underestimated its internal issues. It looks to have a blind spot about sexual harassment.

              Oh dear, how…unpleasant. A “blind spot”?! No demanding of Ardern or whomever else is directly responsible in the Parliamentary Labour Party that they have to prove their credibility?!

              Go gaslight someone else, Ali.

            • Kimbo

               /  6th September 2020

              Nope. “We…” (1st person plural pronoun) “…will have people that fail” = ownership.

            • Kimbo

               /  6th September 2020

              But just to be clear, Duker, you seem to be confirming my analysis that those who are leading the Woke anti-misogyny charge are insisting National has an inherent sexual harassment and/or abuse culture problem for which it’s leaders such as Collins refuse to take responsibility

              …yet Labour does not. At. All. And @ny evidence to the contrary concerning Labour is…National!

              Thanks for clearing that up.

            • Duker

               /  6th September 2020

              Which party had a vice president resign recently because of the awful sexism within
              Which party this term has has 2 MPs who were ….well it’s hard to put it in a sentence but they were drummed out because of their antics .. not counting the donation aspect.
              You have one callow youth , not a party member, who admitted 2 assaults but was discharged without conviction, indicating it was at the bottom of the scale

            • Kimbo

               /  6th September 2020

              Cheers, so the answer from Labour Party apologists about whether they have a culture of sexual harassment and abuse is indeed…”but National!”

              ”You have one callow youth…”. And fascinating to see that in your mind that troublesome Parliamentary staffer has been flushed down the memory hole/air-brushed out of history. How very reassuring for the complainants.

          • Duker

             /  6th September 2020

            No . You said that.
            You said Mau was gaslighting because in an imaginary case of a national youth camp she ‘ might’ve ‘ been far tougher.
            I just pointed out some real cases in national to help you in your search for equivalence …when it’s staring you in the face..
            For Young Act we have a vice president testimoney
            For Young nats we could think about the so called princess party’s.
            Have found this guidance helpfully for your jihad against Alison Mau in which you are clearly the NZs leading expert…in bs

            Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  6th September 2020

            And yet we still have the example of Mau’s timid rhetoric about the Labour Party and a Parliamentary staffer for whom they were responsible compared to her unequivocal calling into question Collins’ credibility dealing with allegations of abuse.

            Sufficiently equivalent to illustrate the point. But if you want to continue arguing they are not identical…sorry, correction: if you want to refuse to acknowledge the complaints against the staffer even exist and therefore, by implication, you must consider it entirely irrelevant to discerning Mau’s credibility, knock yourself out…

            Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  6th September 2020

      And then there’s this from Mau,

      “It’s deeply ironic that the people who will be most outraged by this decision (except perhaps for the complainants, more on that later)…

      Oh, ok, Must be something forthright. So let’s wade through Ali’s word salad until we finally get to “more later”, a casual one-off mention

      ,,,real people to consider. One of the complainants told me he still feels justice has not been done, and is appalled the case has taken two and a half years to travel through the courts.

      And that’s it! But, hey, no problem. “Victimising the victim again” implicitly acknowledged, so that’s the box ticked. No obfuscation or dissembling to see here…

      Reply
  3. Jack

     /  6th September 2020

    Too right.
    Power for the individual – un-cult

    Reply
  4. John J Harrison

     /  6th September 2020

    I have just watched the greatest train wreck in a long time on Q & A.
    Jack Tame interviewing Peters.
    Tame ( of whom I am not a fan ) clinically eviscerated Peters with a range of questions about the SFO, leaking the Green school fiasco etc.
    Peters refused to provide an answer to any and got so heated he referred to Tame on multiple occasions as “ James. “
    Tame politely reminded Peters his name was Jack but Peters – unhinged, repeatedly referred to him as “ James. “
    Peters is losing it and it was on full display.
    A wonderful Fathers Day gift.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th September 2020

      This ‘James’ ?

      Wait till your Judith or your David have their turn… The National Party is already involved in an actual SFO prosecution and she had some recent mud slinging of her own which will have “questions”

      Reply
  5. David

     /  6th September 2020

    I am supposed to be in Texas today, was going to NASA, a hoe down, a stay on a ranch, a visit to the Houston ZOO and their museums and all sorts of other things and a side trip to Nashville.
    Probably would have taken in a Trump rally.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th September 2020

      Arent US borders closed to Kiwis , same as the borders in Australia and Canada?

      Reply
    • While those would not be my own choice for a holiday, I would love to be able to hop on a plane and go somewhere…at least with winter approaching on the other side of the world, it won’t seem so bad that we can’t do so. I have been through European winters and wouldn’t want to be in another one.

      My sympathy to you, how disappointing !

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  6th September 2020

        You can transit through Australia, Singapore, Dubai or Hong Kong to Europe, which doesnt restrict NZers because we have been so successful at BEATING THE VIRUS – no need to thank JA and labour

        Reply
        • You do realise that we have got it back and had two deaths, don’t you ?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  6th September 2020

            To the rest of the world we are still a paradise …in the top 2.
            Have you seen the numbers for Ireland with a similar population to us and on an ‘island’ as well. …between 100 and 150 new cases per day they were down to 20 odd 2 months ago.

            Reply
    • Duker

       /  6th September 2020

      Trump Rally ? hes too busy for that

      news from US suggests that his campaign has would back advertising in some states and that August fundraising is very weak ( and not being released yet because of that, Numbers for July were released by 6 Aug)

      Reply
      • David

         /  6th September 2020

        I dont actually want to travel out of NZ what with all the masks and shenanigans. The whole covid thing is inconvenient when I am at such a tiny tiny risk of having a poor outcome if I caught it. Starting to get annoyed and the infantilization of the world population by politicians worrying about some bad headlines.
        Death is a natural phenomenon and we should be trusted to weigh up the risks and live with a certain amount of individual sovereignty. Quite the juxtaposition that we have two referendums granting us agency over our own being and behaviour while being under ridiculous rules.

        Reply
        • Fight4nz

           /  6th September 2020

          Rightly or wrongly the consensus of the vast majority of the world population is to put rules in place to protect individuals from the foolhardiness of other individuals.
          The endless references to being treated like children, ridiculousness and insanity are not just beyond tiresome but profoundly ironic in their selfish immaturity.
          If you can’t come up with anything better than I want to because I want to or don’t want to, with no regard for the choices of others, then don’t bother.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  6th September 2020

            Yes. Exactly…he says he’ll be fine, forgetting it’s an infectious disease and travellers especially can be the origin of a cluster of dozens of people.
            Ask the unwitting couple in Bluff who had an airline cabin crew member attend.
            My own belief is the new Auckland cluster began from an airline crew member but now impossible tomprove

            Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  6th September 2020

    Trump campaign and his supporters are sinking…its Poseidons way of saying he is annoyed
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhLNSleXgAA0CEs?format=jpg&name=small

    Reply
    • David

       /  6th September 2020

      His poll ratings have lurched back up to pre covid levels, he will win biggly in November.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  6th September 2020

        That’s not good news..you got to be in positive territory to win a second term

        Reply
    • Harry

       /  7th September 2020

      Trump will win in a landslide. Massive fraud is the only hope that Senile Joe’s campaign has.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  7th September 2020

        I guess ‘massive fraud’ equals putting the tick in a place where you rather it wasn’t.
        🤣

        Reply
  7. Harry

     /  7th September 2020

    Anyone go to an anti-lockdown rally on the weekend? I am proud to say I was one of about 200 people at the Auckland event.

    Freedom – use it or lose it.

    Here is a useful article for the Covidmania true believers:

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  7th September 2020

      Did you do the Lord’s work by going to a Mt Roskilll church? I hear that’s good for a laugh or as a way to express freedom.

      Reply

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