Open Forum Monday

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43 Comments

  1. Jack

     /  14th September 2020

    What a beautiful testimony
    https://www.defendnz.co.nz/info/defendnz-doco4-vicki-walsh

    Watched Mr Seymour and Alfred Ngaro’s interview with Jack. Did I hear fairly? – David used Vicki Walsh’s situation in a disingenuous way. Never thought David to be the kind for dishonesty but I think this bill has made him into just another politician.

    Euthanasia law makes no common good sense. It’s always about one person at some point in life struggling with severe pain and/or distress. With many other situations like that in the world experiencing helplessness, euthanasia law seems a distraction for hopelessness.

    Euthanasia is not a law a loving and respectful group of people would want or need. It’s only about me

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  14th September 2020

      What’s so wrong with an it’s ‘only about me’ mentality. Isn’t that largely how people want the world to operate? Accepting of course the tap mostly it isn’t turned to hot or cold permanently or at the same pressure?

      When it suits them it’s full bore for them, it’s a totally individual world. When getting something out of someone else is advantageous to them though the tap may be eased. When real help is needed it’s, “C’mon brothers and sisters we’re all in this together, we need each other, I can’t do without you.”

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  14th September 2020

        Correct – “I can’t do without you”

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  14th September 2020

        No, kindness is about recognising someone else’s “me”. Everything is always about someone’s “me”.

        Socialism says only our “me” matters because we outnumber and overpower you.

        Reply
        • Of course voluntary euthanasia/assisted suicide is about ‘me’, the person who’s in unimaginable pain and has no quality of life, even needing to be cleaned like a baby.

          I see nothing loving or respectful in condemning a person to that.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  14th September 2020

            Many people die in a manner akin to babyhood whose situations are not covered by this bill

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  14th September 2020

              I see nothing loving nor respectful about saying/implying that if I die needing cared for like a baby I am “condemned”

              But I understand – you’re talking about fearful and unimaginable pain and/or distress, some of us having witnessed others suffer through. Once those loved individuals are passed on though, who is it I am concerned about?

            • I neither said nor implied that people in that situation are ‘condemned’. That is an outright lie. You are totally distorting what I did say.

              I said CLEANED like a baby; some people end up unable to control their bladder or bowels and have the indignity of being cleaned by someone else. Have you so little imagination that you can’t understand what this would be like ?

              It may seem odd to you that other people are not thinking of YOU all the time.

        • Jack

           /  14th September 2020

          Death time is the ultimate ‘me’ moment where ‘me’ is totally overpowered. Socialism and Humanism feed that pain.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  14th September 2020

            Thats the old nostrum for Christians …suffering is good for your eternal soul

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  14th September 2020

              Precisely the opposite is true.
              That’s the evil potion taken by people on cult slides

            • Duker

               /  14th September 2020

              ““I Desire to Suffer, Lord, because Thou didst Suffer”

            • Jack

               /  14th September 2020

              Now you’re getting me angry – or hoping that we’re on the same page with this.
              That’s exactly what the cult artists teach. Powerful idiots, some cruel, lead the cults. I see this bill as just another symptom of how our politicians push back in unhelpful ways

  2. Corky

     /  14th September 2020

    Maori language week…groan!`

    The obligatory link and korero.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12364517

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  14th September 2020

      I’ve no problem with those who want to retain an enjoy their traditions. But those who want to foister them on the rest of us and demand support are another story entirely.

      Reply
  3. What a surprise; we are still in L2 and will be for another week. Any excuse is better than none; one new case in Auckland and the rest of the country has to be held to ransom for it. The people in the street spoken to by 3 news were all opposed to L2 continuing, and the unlucky business owners in places like Queenstown are furious.

    Let’s hope it rebounds on the PM and Labour.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  14th September 2020

      Add schadenfreude to your envy and spite regarding our P.M.

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  14th September 2020

      Be happy you’re probably in reasonable health. If you or one of your friends picked up the virus and were seriously affected I reckon your tone would be different.

      Recently when there were stuff-ups of one type or another and people got into or out of quarantine which shouldn’t have happened, were you one who had it as the end of the world?

      You know Woodhouse’s homeless man meant the virus was going to run rampant and we were all going to die. Now bodies wandering Auckland streets and shops with it is no cause for concern.

      Reply
  4. Jack

     /  14th September 2020

    For the sake of others, won’t let one particular thing go unchallenged on this post. Apologies for interrupting here.

    1. Alan’s mannerisms taught me that with blogging you can’t afford to let a teaching opportunity slip by if you’re here for the common good.

    2. Kimbo some days ago said that with narcissistic person’s the only safe and viable option is to act like a grey rock.

    3. We were discussing a topic which requires respect (for goodness’ sake!) Love would be well received too.

    4. I deliberately used ‘I’ as a means to involve myself – since euthanasia is all about ‘me’, undeniably. It was a means to appeal to thinking individuals, to take the heat off a difficult topic and onto myself. It was my way of trying to ease others’ potential inner turmoils. It didn’t occur to me that any Kiwi could turn that into abuse. Forever naive is me.

    5. At the expense of newcomers in the future, if I continue to stick around, I plan to move forward practising only #2. Anything more is just a waste of energy.

    6. Ergo, this is my last time rising to idiocy/mean spiritedness from a certain person on this site.

    7. I might occasionally post on Orthodox Christianity, one of many cult slides (on the occasions when cheekiness is the only means I may keep my personal equilibrium).

    8. I was raised by a person with a narcissistic personality. I know implicitly the effort required to keep narcissistic people safe (for themselves and for the group). I have confusion coded into my brain where I constantly forgive utter nonsense, coaching myself that the narcissistic person could change and I should just love more

    9. I will never outgrow my willingness to give others the space and grace to change. Apart from being incapable of such an attitude due to childhood experiences, I just wouldn’t want to according to my adult conscience

    10. However – I have just now testified that from now on, it’s #2 for me and you are my witnesses.

    And back to my original post. I really believe that euthanasia is not for the common good

    Reply
  5. Jack

     /  14th September 2020

    David S had me won over despite the euthanasia thing. Then I learnt for real and ever what it means to carry one’s cross and realised that he is not. If David doesn’t back track on the murder idea now, and if he continues in Parliament according to his ambition, I think he will be stuck in cult. He’s not as free as libertarians need in a leader. If he gets Act snug in Parliament then retires from politics, I think it means he’s copping out and leaving behind a messy foundation.
    I wrote here a while ago what I guess is tied up with David’s cross to bear (a spiritual talent of wisdom) and that went down like a ton of bricks.
    Here’s another example – Mr Gibbs used his riches for a private matter of helping a political party. I like that, but if he was not doing it for Church then the result will end up the same – cult slide with all the grief and deceit associated.
    Another example, unrelated and fictional, to try to help you see how easy it is to carry your cross: I came here as a Christian and have needed to clear up misrepresentations as they occurred. I belong to Church and I can never again involve myself with any cult sliding church, except on my terms. Another Kiwi out there might want to encourage me here with words of affirmation, but feels too scared or whatever. If that Christian, churched or not, did so, he would be cherishing and carrying his cross (if his cross to bear involves the spiritual talent of edifying the body of Christ).
    To anyone without respect for Jesus’ cross, my words are silly and worthy of ridicule. This is an extremely pertinent political point. If Kiwi Christians will not involve themselves in Church, the cross will become dangerously belittled. After that….well, use your imagination. Christians in this land are dropping their crosses and we are suffering from political fear.

    The churches have been abusing Christians for decades and now Christians are too scared to be Christians – in a free land! It is eternally easier to be a Christian in NZ than what most people realise. Sometimes it occurs to me that there is someone who reads my efforts here and carries their cross with a special spiritual ability in prayer. As I carry my cross and do this seemingly daft thing of talking Church on a secular blog site, I have improved in outlook and health.
    Church is all about ‘me’, that’s how wonderful she is – the body of Christ. It might be easy to succumb to all sorts of vain imaginations about me but I assure you, you’d be wrong. I know my own mind. I came here as a part of my healing process and with a few questions to ask my fellow Kiwis. None of them are answered yet. If you look back to my guest post you will see that is so.

    Back to David – I think it’s possible that he feels deflated by the process of getting his bill passed, and perhaps privately alarmed by how it is unfit for purpose. If I was him, I would ask the media to witness my voting against it on election day. But then, that’s just me. Oh the things God makes one do! (That’s joking to be clear)
    It takes only a speck of faith in Jesus Christ for you to know (by taking an intelligent guess) what is your cross to bear. If you will pick it up, cherishing it, your faith will grow – and that is unlike anything you have seen from all the various churches. It is also the most important political issue for Kiwis to get their heads around.
    The ‘born again’ notion is a false teaching, although based on truth (cults are sneaky in how they use truth to abuse). There is no such thing as a born again Christian, or an anointed Christian or a Prophet or Apostle. I am carrying my cross which involves the spiritual talents of apostleship, prophesy and discernment but I don’t have a title, except for Christian. In Christ, all are equal.
    Your cross to bear is nothing onerous, but you do need to lay down your life for the sake of others. It’s a brief battle between your natural and your spiritual and you come out winning and grinning

    Reply
    • Her pipeline.

      The fearmongers who have caused this terror have a lot to answer for.

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  14th September 2020

      Shroud waving by private psychologists…..not every person nhas severe symptoms and these existed long before Covid for most people
      Luckily the numbers so far are lives saved by what some loonies have called a’terror’

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  14th September 2020

        Crap. As I said yesterday suicidal woman up here has to wait two months to see a public mental health professional up here.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  14th September 2020

          Are you ‘behind this woman’s story ‘ getting to the media.?

          Not wearing your statisticians hat today ? But now a clinician involved in triage mental health

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  14th September 2020

            More crap. You and B crap on everything and everyone like a pair of cockroaches. Both of you hide behind your pseudonyms and never reveal anything real beyond your nasty personalities.

            (That’s a bit of triage mental health for you.)

            Reply
            • Fight4nz

               /  14th September 2020

              No, just name calling.
              The irony of course that you are repeating one of your most common non sequiturs, along the lines of how nasty lefties are.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th September 2020

              Not all Lefties, F4NZ. You are not nasty as these two are. Neither are many others here, though it does seem more common for the Lefties to be very secretive about themselves. Others are more willing to share personal stuff. Lurch is an exception to that. So is Griff. But most Lefties seem shy if not paranoid about that.

            • Jack

               /  15th September 2020

              That’s a wriggling sort of reply. Is this the sort of people who vote for Act?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th September 2020

              Simple truth, Jack.

            • Jack

               /  15th September 2020

              Simply arrogant, but I sin (Christians are not supposed to correct those of the world)

              Truth? I’ve met David and can see dishonesty.

              You like simple truth? Get David to show me his resignation from the cult of Presbyterianism, and I’ll vote Act

            • Blazer

               /  15th September 2020

              People use pseudonyms for a reason.
              Far more from both camps do than don’t.

              You are a serial lemon sucker.that describes NZ as a ‘shithole’ and whinge everyday about trivia,and do not like been shown up …a regular occurrence.

            • Jack

               /  15th September 2020

              https://www-newshub-co-nz.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-act-supports-mining-on-low-value-conservation-land-to-fund-real-conservation-where-it-counts.amp.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newshub.co.nz%2Fhome%2Fpolitics%2F2020%2F09%2Fnz-election-2020-act-supports-mining-on-low-value-conservation-land-to-fund-real-conservation-where-it-counts.html

              Sensible like they often are, but yesterdays comments showed me why I can’t vote Act. There is missing in action simple truth spirituality.

              Dear Alan who has taught me so much – your Act party is just another which will aid in your leaving a legacy of Jacinda-type spirituality. In mho you are not helping NZ out of Socialism at all. You are coercing it into becoming well and truly engrained.

              That’s yucky simple truth and not at all well.

              David is socialist too. There is no way he couldn’t be while he remains a Presbyterian. David is sneaky and not as truly confident as he portrays. He can’t instill hope. Jacinda easily beats him on that count.

              Am I allowed to say to you, please wake up big Al?

              Arrogance from right and left cling to Socialism when it suits

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th September 2020

              Most use pseudonyms but as I noted the Left also mostly avoid any and all personal revelations whereas others don’t. The particular Lefties I named also make personal attacks their trademark, shooting from their own concealed positions.

            • Blazer

               /  15th September 2020

              @Al….if you play the ball and not the man…you will be better off.

              This is an interactive forum for opinion…NOT Dr Phil….for personal catharsis.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th September 2020

              That’s rich coming from you, B.

            • Jack

               /  15th September 2020

              Why complain about pseudonyms? Some of the people here using them obviously made the right decision in that regard. It’s easy for pseud names to get rude, but it’s easier for strong names to abuse pseud names so chosen for some measure of a buffer against harassment.

              I for one would love to have my real name here but you clearly don’t care to read my books, where I am easily identified. Doing so could show how much you truly care about lefties and other so called idiots (of which I was one, constantly running to the top of your kind of Right cult slide to try again). It possibly could make you less condescending to those suffering from mental illness too. Really Alan, how much good is done by highlighting the plight of that lady without offering a solution? Such matters require creative and unique thinking. Forget about Right thinking!

              Anyway, strong man – are you going to make it possible for me to vote Act? Or am I not the sort whose vote you want there? Would love to vote Act, if I could

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th September 2020

              You know nothing about how we help that woman, Jack, because I am not going to compromise her privacy here.

              Also you ignore the fact I explicitly criticise particular behaviour from behind a pseudonym, not the pseudonyms themselves.

              I’m not interested in making you vote for ACT or why on earth you think if David does you shouldn’t.

              If you want to defend B, fine. I don’t.

            • Jack

               /  15th September 2020

              Defend? On an online site? That’s a cult notion.

              Suffice to say I’ve learnt as much from Blazer as from you, perhaps more.

              “I’m not interested in making you vote for ACT or why on earth you think if David does you”
              You don’t usually respond with such jumbles. Do you mean that you’d rather I not vote Act? Wait till I tell David.

              ‘Make me vote for Act’? Hmm, thought it was my own mind safe at work with my suggestion above

  6. Jack

     /  14th September 2020

    Hey Blazer, just come from reading your back and forths with Mr H. Showed my son.
    “Yeah, that Blazer is on to it.”
    Me – “really?”
    “Well he’s worked up the other fella and that’s clever”
    Then – fits of laughter from the both of us re the kitten stomper.
    The churchy cults made a failure out of me B.

    You’re quite intelligent. More so than me which isn’t saying much – but your spitefulness way back couldn’t discourage me carrying my cross for Church, so in that regard I’m cleverer
    I can’t work out why that kitten stomper is so funny!

    We all end up dead anyway.

    Reply

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