Open Forum Wednesday

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75 Comments

  1. NOEL

     /  16th September 2020

    Gee what a world.
    Another up standing gentleman guilty of fake news.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12365056

    Reply
    • A reprimand with no consequences.

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  16th September 2020

      A daily occurrence for ‘Mikey’ is spouting drivel.

      He has a fan base that like a daily….dose.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  16th September 2020

      This surely has to be a joke? Of more importance to me- who was the complainant? One of the 77 thousand drop kicks who wanted him removed from the airwaves? Why wasn’t the complainant listening to NSR …and getting their daily dose of socialism.

      When is someone going to put in a complaint about the PM telling lies?

      Reply
      • Typical righty attitude – unmask and blame a whistle-blower rather than acknowledge Hoskings lied.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  16th September 2020

          My point is – it’s a technicality adjudicated on by a quasi quango. The issue for me is more about the person complaining. They should be outed. I’m betting a lame liberal, with glasses and a beard, who works in a university where he will spend the rest of his life. He probably doesn’t dislike Hoskings – HE HATES HIM! Typical Lefty attitude.

          In fact, I agree with Hosking to a degree.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  16th September 2020

            No you havent read it have you .
            Hosking made a false claim that wasnt even in the ‘source’ material ZB supplied that he based his ‘minute’ on.
            Theres a word for making up stuff like that even when you have used a source.

            the Herald web page used to have his rants from ZB amoung their news sections 2 to 3 times a week. But not anymore , I guess this is the tip of the iceberg of complaints about his ‘accuracy.’…you cant complain about his verbosity and his flip flops ( he was a journalist and then he wasnt) and his outright partisanship.
            Its a reverse stopped clock…

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  16th September 2020

              ”No you haven’t read it have you.”

              Cut and paste relative parts of the article to show your argument.

              Here’s two of mine.

              1-”However, while the BSA upheld the complaint about accuracy, it found the comment piece did not breach discrimination and denigration standards.”

              * (The complainant said Hosking’s comments breached the accuracy and discrimination and denigration standards of the Radio Code of Broadcasting Practice.)

              Hence me wanting the complainants name made public so he could receive utu.

              2- ”NZME, the broadcaster of the comment piece and publisher of the Herald, found no breach in the accuracy standard, however.

              The broadcaster argued Hosking’s commentary was analysis and opinion, rather than an unqualified statement of fact.”

              Like I said ”basically a technicality. There were no outright lies.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  16th September 2020

      The UK just reported 12 times as many deaths from flu and pneumonia as from Covid19.
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/15/flu-pneumonia-have-contributed-deaths-covid-since-june-new-ons/

      Who is misleading who?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  16th September 2020

        The Telegraph is mostly wrong and in this case its only for the latest weeks data
        “week ending September 4 – the latest for which death registrations are available – ”

        and even gives the link
        “Deaths in England and Wales involving Covid-19 decreased for the 20th consecutive week”
        https://cf-particle-html.eip.telegraph.co.uk/cd90b5f1-462c-494f-baa1-0ab991653dfa.html

        Now just admit you were wrong assuming it was since the pandemic began
        heres the ‘weekly data’

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  16th September 2020

          B.s. Look at the chart you just copied. The flu/covid ratio has been actually as high or higher than currently for a considerable time.

          Reply
  2. Fight4nz

     /  16th September 2020

    Alan, something you said the other day has had me thinking.
    “does seem more common for the Lefties to be very secretive about themselves. “
    Certainly true of myself. Initially it was paranoia as you suggested. This is the first and only blog in which I participate. I have no social media presence outside Linked-In. So caution is my default with inexperience. Seems I lucked in that this has turned out to be a quality site.
    I am however still not inclined to say anything that identifies me. I like that my input is not prejudged on knowledge but only assumptions about my leanings.
    I was given the impression early on, possibly by Gezza, that a number of posters have connections outside the blog. So while I am wouldn’t be unhappy to share more detail off-site I see no means of doing so.
    Some day perhaps. In the meantime may the arm wrestle continue 😎

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  16th September 2020

      You are a quality poster, F4NZ, and a pleasure to disagree with. I hope you will feel able to share some of your experiences in a way that doesn’t identify you as it enriches debate.

      Even though my identity is open I am constrained on some topics because that makes it more easy to breach other people’s privacy.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  16th September 2020

        I am worried about what has happened to my friend, Gezza. I haven’t been able to contact him since he went missing here.

        Yes, he was going thru a tough time a few years ago after his wife died and I invited him up for break here and during his visit we met up with two other posters who live up this way. Pete has sometimes acted as a conduit for willing parties supplying email addresses.

        Reply
        • I’ve been thinking about Gezza too and am also concerned. He last commented here on 20 August.

          He may have simply decided to have a break from here, but with his health issues I am worried about him too. I only have his email address and no other way of contacting him – I don’t even know his real name, so don’t know how to find out about him.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  16th September 2020

            Me three. Been thinking well about him too.
            I remember him saying months ago that he wouldn’t have long to live then noticing he was carrying on strongly.
            Gezza’s comments came across as thoughtful. Maybe he’s just reading the site. The last thing I remember Gezza saying was that he could never be a politician as he’s not thick skinned.
            I never book mark anything, just go by memory. I hope Gezza is well

            Reply
          • I haven’t heard for ages; we used to exchange emails. I know his first name, which isn’t much help.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  16th September 2020

              I guess if he doesn’t answer emails…no news is …good..news.

            • Did you downtick that ? How meanspirited .

              How can someone not answering our emails be good news ? I’d say it’s very bad news.

        • I haven’t heard for some weeks, but can’t remember exactly when I last did.

          Reply
          • Pickled Possum

             /  16th September 2020

            I last heard from geeza on the 3rd of Sept. But have also been concerned about him not commenting on ynz lately. I text him over a week ago with no reply. I will send another text. I had asked him to come up north for some bush adventures go see our pal Al after Ma died ….
            maybe after all the giving he gave he needs a rest. I miss his thorough critique of things important.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  16th September 2020

              That plan would be good, Possum. You may need to call.

      • Fight4nz

         /  16th September 2020

        Some kind words there Al, thank you. It is the rewarding battle with the likes of yourself that brings me back.
        Conflicted by your praise of course since you’re almost invariably wrong 😉
        And any news on Gezza would be good to hear…

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  16th September 2020

      There is NO evidence that Lefties are more ‘secretive’ than any other faction.

      There is also NO reason that posters cannot have robust discussions using a pseudonym.

      Topics for comment are what these forums about.

      If some decide they wish to boast about themselves and their so called ‘achievements’ that are usually unverifiable ,anyway,that is their choice and not really cogent.

      Playing the ‘ball’ not the ‘man’ is the ready …solution.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  16th September 2020

        I decided to try unchummying this place a little. You know – un-culting it.
        Your comment is right on the ball B. It’s been nice to have a turn running with it myself occasionally.
        It’s the tagline that Pete gave his site which I believe is worthy of upholding. Cult prevents that. Lots of people would not be thick skinned enough to attempt a peep here.

        Ill judgements are rife. Blazer’s example of “secrecy” could more likely be prudence and a fair attempt at self preservation

        Reply
        • Unchummying ? What on earth is that ?

          Please stop banging on about cults (cult is another word that needs an article in the singular; a cult or the cult) It is tedious and rude.

          YNZ is not a cult. Anyone can read it or comment on it. Do you know the real meaning of the word ‘cult’ ? It doesn’t seem like it.

          Do you mean to be insulting with your constant misuse of the word ?

          Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  16th September 2020

        It’s not about boasting of achievements but about bringing relevant experience to bear on issues of politics and life. Maybe Lefties just think ideology is more important.

        Reply
        • Another typically myopic rant. Alan, your entire presence on this blog is ideologically driven. One needs look no further than your constant use of “loony lefty” for anyone who disagrees with your position.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  16th September 2020

            No, loony Left is reserved for deserving cases, Ishmael. And on the scale of myopic rants I think yours just rated a lot higher than mine.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  16th September 2020

              Remember Christians, whoever you are, only a Christian can honestly correct another.
              Christians are not to try correcting the world.
              People who identify themselves (privately and/or publicly) as belonging to Church are strong and resilient for lovingly correcting each other. That’s the best kind of wrestling. Leave the political ball game as it is, participating with the ball.

            • Your wilful obtuseness means that you just ‘don’t get it.’ and probably never will.

  3. lurcher1948

     /  16th September 2020

    Ms Collins,is in full negative mode this morning just saying,mind you its Australia this and Australia that but I live in NZ but the best part shes coming across as spiteful and NZ doesn’t like spiteful.

    Reply
    • Jack

       /  16th September 2020

      That’s true. But does NZ like silly?
      Judith has had more spite put upon her than we can know. Opposition is a difficult balancing act.
      People didn’t like Simon’s negativity but I thought he did great. He muffed trivial things and came off badly whereas Jacinda does the same and gets forgiven immediately.
      Try to look beyond the superficial and consider next generations

      Reply
      • I’d hardly call things like the lack of border testing that allowed C19 back in, a trebled waiting list for emergency housing, the much longer surgery waiting times, the hospital and KiwiBuild debacles ‘trivial’ things.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  16th September 2020

      Loosen your strides, Lurchy. If Collins offends you, forget about her and concentrate on someone else. Er, you aren’t concentrating on Collins because of your spiteful attitude towards National and the right…are you?

      Reply
  4. Blazer

     /  16th September 2020

    I found this very interesting.

    Clearly a visionary movement that was ahead of its time.

    The irony is in looking at some of those original founders and how they have evolved …politically!

    https://www.globalgreens.org/green-party-platforms-programs-and-manifestos/nz_values_1975

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  16th September 2020

      What strikes me on a quick rereading is how well balanced that was compared with the strident extremism from the Left today.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  16th September 2020

        Qnon isnt strident ?

        I was reading a political story the other day about rural Pennsylvania and why its so heavily Trump (80:20). One person said the talk back radio hosts are so right wing they make Rush Limburgh seem almost centre of the road.
        At an ACT election gathering Seymour had to squelch down talk of the ‘plandemic’ and one of the party activists said people he knows are really going for the Advance NZ and Billy TK kind of talk.
        The swivel eyed loons have moved on from ACT – after they get a few more in parliament the talk might be more Qnon friendly and clearly some one is putting serious money into Advance /Public party via the hidden back door of an ‘unregistered party’

        Reply
      • The Green manifesto sounds malthusian at some points. It doesn’t seem to say how their ideas would be carried out, and limiting economic growth makes no sense at all. It comes across as incredibly naive.

        Reply
        • It is very patronising towards women !!!

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  16th September 2020

            Really? I can assure you the women involved were very far from patronisable.

            Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  16th September 2020

          Yes, the Limits to Growth fallacy along with some potty economics were their weakest points.

          Reply
          • I grew up in the 70s and girls were NOT taught that we were to be helpful, clean and decorative because of our gender at any school I attended (as opposed to boys being taught to be adventurous and curious), nor was there any suggestion that women couldn’t have careers. Their argument is a straw man one, and extremely dated. The idea that the nurturing etc should have their status lifted assumes that these things had a low status, which I don’t think they did.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  16th September 2020

            The women involved grew up in the fifties and sixties which was the foundation of the feminist revolution. Germaine Greer’s “Female Eunuch” was published in 1970 only five years earlier.

            Reply
    • Jack

       /  16th September 2020

      Overly idealistic and too difficult. Easier to belong to Church for reaching such goals – “you in your small corner and I in mine.”
      How are my contributions Mindless Maureen?

      Is there a valid reason for your repeated senseless responses to my comments, many of which I find cruel, or are you just a nasty person? I find it hard to believe you’re a Kiwi.

      Many of our views re life and politics align. What is your problem?

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  16th September 2020

        In Church every person is equal in Christ, ergo the world’s feminist movement was outdated before it began. We could say the same regarding ideals for living in harmony with one another, sharing and resource stewardship.
        Yes Dupe – Church does lead humanity

        Reply
  5. Jack

     /  16th September 2020

    Not long ago I helped a fellow stuck in Catholicism. He thought highly of me from years ago as my employer but once we started talking ‘religion’ at his instigation all hell broke loose. He started out by saying he had dropped religion long ago and had rejected all things Catholic, going so far as to call them idiots and ridiculing it.
    My Protestant bits then got involved and he got rude: I was attacking his religion, I was disrespectful, I had insulted his dead parents, didn’t care about his children, thought he was unworthy and so on.
    The issue for which he had sought out my help was family court hearing his estranged wife’s lies and allowing her to deny him access to their child. (Many Kiwis experience awful grief at the hands of family court.) My friend had it bad and I did my best but his rudeness drove me away. He didn’t like me putting my trust in Jesus Christ for the things he was asking of me. I had to pull out. His child’s mother is cleverly manipulative, he was behaving atrociously due to the stress, Oranga Tamariki were hopeless and I couldn’t handle such things while being walloped for being a plain Christian. It took two years out of my family’s well being, but it did teach us helpful things.
    I share this story here as a preclude to this, which I feel compelled to say –

    – Catholicism is a cult. You can be a Christian under it, if you want.
    – you must be true to yourself. It is more respectful and honouring of your Catholic parents to do as you wish than to allow their legacy to affect your spiritual decisions in this moment.
    – the only thing keeping you in (any) cult, whether as a victim or as one of the strong ones, is pride.
    – you cannot take pride to the grave. Death will strip it away from you. At that point you are powerless.
    – you’re either a Christian or you’re not. If you need/desire release from Catholicism it’s as simple as this – “Dear God, I repent of ever being a Catholic. If I could have made my own decisions earlier than this, I would have kept away from it.”

    Being a Christian does not involve feelings any more than deciding not to be a Christian. If you have had extra ‘special’ spiritual experiences in the past you can repent of that too – “Dear God, if I could turn back the clock I would not have tried out those deceits.”

    Being a Christian means to get back up after a fall and to put one foot in front of the other. Jesus Christ is a real man and he is God, but it doesn’t even matter if you are not convinced of this. Being a Christian means to focus on the things in your natural world and to only now and then have a wee grapple with your spirit. As a Christian, however unimportant, you are automatically filled with Holy Spirit whether or not you feel it. Mostly you won’t.

    I have written this as a Christian who has repented from Protestantism and all things denominational. Christianity is a cult. Most Kiwis are on a cult slide of some description. You can be a Christian while in cult. I was, but my cross was too often trampled. A Christian grows to cherish his cross and discovers it is weightless and gorgeous.

    A Christian does not even need to totally ‘believe in God’. Really – who in their right mind would do that?

    Being a Christian is to mostly do as you want. That’s how powerful and loving God is. He never asks for your all. It’s enough to walk daily in a way totally according to your own personality. That’s yours, not God’s.

    Everything about being a Christian is a paradox, but at least it’s a peaceful and pleasant one.

    If you repent from any formal cult you have identified in your life, it’s very helpful to write a letter of resignation and send it to them. Show your copy to a trustworthy person (doesn’t matter if that person is not a Christian). It doesn’t matter if you don’t hear back from the cult. (It’s often better if you don’t.)

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  16th September 2020

      I treasured a recent Anglican bigwig’s reply to being asked if he had a religious upbringing: “Heavens, no. We were Anglicans!”

      When you can chuckle at yourself you are doing something right.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  16th September 2020

        Nice…but. Those bigwigs take their laughs at the expense of others, leaving the crowd to suppose that the losers are genuinely losers.
        I take more pleasure at laughing with others rather than at them or as a sole winner. Furthermore, the cult situation in NZ is so bad now that most leaders who are light-hearted should actually be exposed as lazy shepherds. Then see if they truly know how to laugh at themselves.

        Reply
        • You appear to have totally missed the point of the story, and explaining it would destroy the whole point.

          Your arrogant dismissal of all religions except the narrow one you follow is extremely unBiblical. ‘In my Father’s house there are many mansions.’ No wonder the Catholic man was furious. I am from Ulster and even I wouldn’t call Catholicism a cult.

          You are the worst example of a supposed Christian that I have ever met, with one possible exception.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  16th September 2020

            Thats right KC , hes an un- Christian Christian , its all buzz words/phrases and denigration of any other denomination, let alone other mono-theistic religions.
            Cant imagine any congregation wanting him as part of their fellowship. Its all very weird as we dont discuss religion much here, its a political blog.
            Its bordering on a personality issue, but I wont ‘spell it out’

            Reply
            • Jack is a she, believe it or not.

              She does succeed in uniting people who don’t normally agree about much, one has to hand that to her.

    • duperez

       /  16th September 2020

      Not long ago you helped a fellow stuck in Catholicism. Did he try to help you with whatever you’re stuck in? 🙃

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  16th September 2020

        Its called a ‘no tresspass order ‘

        Reply
        • Jack

           /  16th September 2020

          My friend still tries to contact me. I have to ignore his attempts as there is nothing more I can do except to hope for the best from a distance. I won’t be drawn into any more of his religious nonsense. He gets angry and non coherent and treats me like I’ve got heaps of spare time.

          I never thought of getting a trespass notice against him! Just hoping he can learn appropriate respect in this situation. He lives far from me and has used up all his local layman support too.

          Wish you hadn’t mentioned the trespass idea. I don’t think I could ever do that to a friend

          Reply
      • Jack

         /  16th September 2020

        “…and denigration of any other denomination, let alone other mono-theistic religions.”

        Of course not.
        Is this your way of denigrating Holy Spirit? (That is the one point of difference with monotheistic religions.)

        Church (the body of Christ) is non denominational.

        Cult artists are intolerant of fellow humans who possess Holy Spirit. They get nasty and throw out false accusations.

        If you’re not sure – best to listen, observe and learn

        Reply
        • THE Holy Spirit, please. ‘In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Spirit)’. The Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity. I am amazed that a soi-disant Christian doesn’t know this. St Patrick used the shamrock as an image of the three in one. It’s one of the basic tenets of Christianity. ‘Glory be to the Father, and to the Son/And to the Holy Ghost/As it was in the beginning/Is now and ever shall be/World without end, Amen.’

          If spirit doesn’t have an article, it has a completely different meaning.

          Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  16th September 2020

        Mindless attention-seeking? I expect it has merely been transferred from one forum to another. Probably forgot to throw some holy water while casting out the demon.

        Reply
  6. Corky

     /  16th September 2020

    Geez, Mel Gibson. Who would have guessed? Gemane given todays relevation about a Chinese firm with links to the communist party keeping tabs on inportant New Zealanders and their families. I don’t know if any socialists were targeted. The Chinese seem to be concentrating on high value assets.

    Reply
  7. lurcher1948

     /  16th September 2020

    I wonder if I’m on the Chinese most important personal detail list???? you are made if you are,NOTED

    Reply
  8. MaureenW

     /  16th September 2020

    You could almost be excused for wondering whether this was an organised child-pedo ring. Seven former teachers from Dilworth accused of sexually interfering with children. The poor kids, often they become the next generation of pedo’s, such is the damage this activity leaves on children.

    In my view, this topic doesn’t get the sunshine it deserves, perhaps it’s so widespread (nudge, nudge), it stays largely untouched, with exceptions, like this case.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300108376/seventh-man-appears-in-court-over-alleged-dilworth-school-sex-abuse

    Reply
  9. Corky

     /  16th September 2020

    White Ribbon get rid of an ambassor who is a supposed nut.

    Quote:

    ”The White Ribbon campaign has ended politician Billy Te Kahika Jr’s​ ambassadorship, saying some of his recent remarks about coronavirus and other issues undermine the trust’s evidence-based approach.”

    I had a couple of little sniggers about that. Of course, the trust is free to do what they like.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300092280/billy-tk-junior-terminated-as-white-ribbon-ambassador-after-complaints

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  16th September 2020

      That reminds of that famous scene on Friends that ends with ‘What is Toner’
      What the hell is White Ribbon organisation…do we care even less…

      Reply

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