Open Forum Tuesday

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you, or you think may interest others.. 

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54 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  22nd September 2020

    Michael Baker thinks he can make wearing masks the new normal. He can’t. I refuse to be dehumanised like that. They will continue to be exceptional, temporary and abnormal.

    Reply
    • He certainly has been pushing this for years, despite the evidence being less than convincing.
      The WHO has chopped and changed on this, their present stance is masks might stop transmission by spreaders but are mostly useless on stopping the disease if you are not the spreader.
      https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/who-updates-guidance-on-masks-heres-what-to-know-now/

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  22nd September 2020

      Once men and women wore hats outdoors, especially for formal occasions. Mens ties are going the same way even when wearing a suit.
      What was was unusual now becomes usual…like in the crowded cities of Asia the face masks in winter were very common and likely now ubiquitous.

      Reply
      • artcroft

         /  22nd September 2020

        Two weeks ago, not wearing a mask in a supermarket in Auckland made one very conspicuous. That’s no longer the case.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  22nd September 2020

          So is not wearing a mask in a supermarket in Auckland now not conspicuous….not from what I observe.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  22nd September 2020

            There’s nothing wrong with masks being a new normal in health perspectives.

            The notion will be turned by some into ‘state control’ and ‘dictatorship’ and there’ll likely be loonies on the streets saying it means life as we know it has gone, our freedoms have disappeared, the End is Nigh. Bloody masks, the flimsy Trojan horse.

            Maybe we can be really trendy and fight back by following our American wise friends, have gun laden boofheads roaming the streets demanding to live their lives as they want. Maybe that can be managed with a combo of Te Kahika, Bishop Brian and Seymour.

            Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  22nd September 2020

    The traffic trying to get on Aucklands harbor bridge looks horrendous,people will be stressed wreaks if the bridge isn’t fixed quickly.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  22nd September 2020

      One of the best non-stories was an NZME staffer getting to work and moaning and getting to be an item in their network:

      “Nightmare commute.
      A North Shore commuter has taken two hours and 35 minutes to travel from a northern suburb to the city this morning.
      Newstalk ZB newsreader Malcolm Jordan said he was confronted by a staggering level of traffic congestion. For most of the journey from Torbay to the CBD he was moving an inch every 10 minutes.”

      Herald online, Monday.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  22nd September 2020

        Water cooler talk …and they expect people to pay for it.
        For me the joys of computer code means I get it for FREE

        Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  22nd September 2020

    The Telegraph has an interesting paywalled column reporting a German virologist saying the virus can be managed without major lockdowns by fast test and contact tracing, mask wearing and stopping indoor mass risk events. It advocates the German model over the Swedish though they are similar – the German is more regimented.

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  22nd September 2020

      Fast and reliable testing and contact tracing would be critical and would require the capacity to achieve this which means dollars. Pity they will have to be dehumanized for the model to work.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd September 2020

        Yes and regimented, though only intermittently. Germans submit to that more readily than Brits but have also been better organised (decentrslised) than the shambolic UK centralised health system.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  22nd September 2020

          the NHS isnt as centralised like you think .
          Each hospital or small group has its own management and CEO. NHS is more of a brand name .
          HCA in US the largest health group has 37,000 beds under its ‘centralised control’
          probably more than all of NZ

          Reply
        • If you vill not vear ein mask, you vill be shot. hein ?

          Reply
    • Duker

       /  22nd September 2020

      Swedens restrictions are very similar to our level 2…are you sure you want to have that as your ‘glorious aim’
      Our Level 1 is an impossible dream for Sweden
      Anybody can come up with a paper solution…. the fast contact tracing works in Taiwan( they began this for SARS in 2008) because its far more like China but with a veneer of democracy . Indeed China has copied the original Taiwan model of a semi Leninist party-state under the decades of the KMT rule. Singapore is the other end ‘with some ‘freedumbs but dont you dare step out of line.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd September 2020

        Sweden may be closer to herd immunity and your impossible dream than you think.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  22nd September 2020

          How do you think Boris is looking…these days …Al?

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  22nd September 2020

          Herd Immunity ?
          Really … for this sort of virus it could be 60% with antibodies…
          You just have wild speculation …just put a tail on it and call it a squirrel

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  22nd September 2020

            Speculation either way is wild but the trends are better there than most of Europe.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  22nd September 2020

              Its not speculation about level of herd immunity , its one of those that CAN be calculated
              ” In a population in which individuals mix homogeneously and are equally susceptible and contagious, R = (1 − pC)(1 − pI)R0 (equation 1), where pC is the relative reduction in transmission rates due to non-pharmaceutical interventions; pI is the proportion of immune individuals; and R0 is the reproduction number in the absence of control measures in a fully susceptible population.

              “For R0 = 3, as estimated for France1, the herd immunity threshold for SARS-CoV-2 is therefore expected to require 67% population immunity. ”

              and interestly
              ” if we account for age-specific contact patterns (for example, individuals aged >80 years have substantially less contacts than those aged 20–40 years), the herd immunity threshold drops from 66.7% to 62.5%. ( For the France R0)
              and finally Taking these considerations into account, there is little evidence to suggest that the spread of SARS-CoV-2 might stop naturally before at least 50% of the population has become immune.
              https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00451-5

              I take your squirrel and throw it out the window. You dont seem to realise its older men like you who have the most to lose as the have higher complications from infection and death ( your famous die with covid claims !)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd September 2020

              More rubbish. R0 famously depends mightily on behaviour and environment as the age variation illustrates. And we simply don’t know what levels are being attained but it does seem quite likely the places with early peaks now having low casualty numbers have indeed built an immunity.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd September 2020

              And despite your concern for my health I would rather get on with life and anyway think I am at the low end of risk on most factors but age.

  4. Duker

     /  22nd September 2020

    Well well well:

    “Election 2020: National eyes greater role for private sector and more open borders”
    “It could see the private sector play a greater role in more OPEN borders under a National-led government, and more managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) capacity beyond the current 7300 beds.”

    ACT goes further for “OPEN BORDERS”
    -“Act similarly wants the Government to set MIQ safety standards, and if they are met – by educational institutes or even Airbnbs – then foreigners should be allowed in.”
    Will that be like the standards for charter schools ? Where the goalposts were moved to allow the schools to ‘pass’
    Air BnBs ? Whos going to be keeping an eye of the fences at night to catch a evening bottle shop run. Typical laughable nonsense from right wing Actors.

    Naturally the info is ‘pre released by’ Derek Cheng who specialises in this sort of PR from national in the Herald
    “deputy leader Gerry Brownlee is releasing details in Auckland today about the party’s longer-term border strategy.”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12366564
    The mystery is why a certain person refuses to accept the obvious

    Reply
  5. Duker

     /  22nd September 2020

    Judith said Goldy had DOUBLE Checked….. will have to eat her words today
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-national-s-4-billion-fiscal-hole-has-gotten-even-bigger.html
    Goldsmith has been in the job a while, replaced a while back by the twice scorned Amy Adams…whos mannerisms Goldsmith has copied ….by talking very fast to repeat his talking points and ignore the questions hes asked.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd September 2020

      That’s just rounding error level drivel, Duker. And again in meaningless forecasts.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  22nd September 2020

        Why did Judith say ‘she was confident NO more errors , and ‘double checked by her …cough ..numbers man.
        Its 7.5x what a certain Green school got funded, and everyone waxed lyrical over that amount for weeks.
        Perception and its dark cousin pretence are everything in an election campaign.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  22nd September 2020

          Agree entirely with your last sentence. That is exactly what this nonsense is about.

          Reply
        • Coughing again, Duker ? Are you all right ? I’d see a doctor if that cough persists.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  22nd September 2020

            The cough is for that ‘poseur finance minister ‘ Goldsmith.

            You would have to wonder how much is correct in his hagiography of John Banks or ‘The Life and Times of Alan Gibbs’

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  22nd September 2020

              Looks to me this Gibbs fulla has the RIGHT lifestyle.

            • His lifestyle and politics are not related. He has a marvellous lifestyle, but it’s not because he’s an ACT supporter, that’s irrelevant. He’s had a great and interesting lifestyle for many years, thanks to his own brains and industriousness. I love his giraffes, they are very charming.

            • Duker

               /  22nd September 2020

              ACT party is just another one of his zoo specimens of the walking weird and wonderful shaped.
              But maybe he has a close connection to “Pauly’ now , as the book was written while Goldsmith was a full time/over worked MP
              “What Paul Goldsmith has captured in this biography, paid for by Gibbs himself, are the many facets to his character”
              really ?
              “The Farm has been called one of the great sculpture parks of the world. Over the years Gibbs has added to his collection of sculptures, most of which he enjoyed for the engineering challenge they represented. The farm also has a full-scale wild west town and, as a designated zoo, is home to several exotic animals. ”
              How jolly , run as a charity for its tax benefits as I found out last week.

              “But he says he will continue funding ACT as long as it continues to stand for small government.”
              https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7387674/Gibbs-lives-a-life-of-serious-fun

    • Blazer

       /  22nd September 2020

      Amy Adams was supposedly Todd Mullers ‘trump’ card…’we’ve got Amy Adams! Bol

      Now Labour can say ‘you’ve got [deleted incorrect name] Goldsmith….Judith.’

      Reply
  6. Blazer

     /  22nd September 2020

    Al will be incensed at Deep State,Big Govt attempts to railroad Julian Assange…

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/wikileaks-files-were-already-available-online-court-hears/ar-BB19gS8o?ocid=msedgntp

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd September 2020

      I agree, B. The prosecution of Assange has been international deep state corruption. Meanwhile the likes of Putin, MBS Lukashenko, Jong-un and many others go on killing people unmolested.

      Reply
  7. Corky

     /  22nd September 2020

    Talkback is asking:

    When will a petition be circulated to remove John Campbell from the airwaves. Similar to the petition circulated to remove Mike Hosking?

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  22nd September 2020

      When someone starts one.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  22nd September 2020

        It wasnt to remove him from the ‘airwaves’ but from the TV debate moderator when he was far too partisan in his stated opinions.
        I understand the TVNZ debate moderator is Jack Tame…maybe talkback should get its ducks in a row first
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/96314214/petition-from-76000-not-enough-to-remove-mike-hosking-as-tvnz-debate-moderator
        Just checked and I was right again.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  22nd September 2020

          ”It wasnt to remove him from the ‘airwaves’ but from the TV debate moderator when he was far too partisan in his stated opinions.”

          That’s what I meant. My mistake.

          ”Tuesday 22 September – The first Leaders’ Debate takes place between Jacinda Ardern and Judith Collins at 7-8.30pm on TVNZ 1. Moderated by John Campbell.”

          Yep, usual bs and bluster…and hope for the best.

          Campbell is a raving Lefty. Hell, he’s so bad even Gezza doesn’t like him. While Gezza is no fan of Hosking, he at least said Hosking did a reasonable job as a moderator.

          Sack Johnny I say.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  22nd September 2020

            My Mistake …but hes not the only moderator unlike the Hosk who had it all
            “John Campbell will moderate the first Leaders’ Debate and Political Editor, Jessica Mutch McKay will referee the Multi-Party Debate and second Leaders’ Debate.’
            This may surprise you but Im not a fan of Campbell either, hes good at his job just as Hosking is and even way back so was Michael Laws.

            Reply
      • duperez

         /  22nd September 2020

        Fear and paranoia sometimes promote action.

        The guru had a session with the girl this morning:

        “Hosking challenged Ardern on that comment, saying she was “making this up as you go along” – highlighting New South Wales, which had more cases than New Zealand, would have full crowds back at big rugby league games this weekend.
        Ardern said NSW had recently had limits on hospitality and gatherings like New Zealand, which is also easing rules as of today.

        Ardern: “Mike, if in your view there’s a perfect model here, you are welcome to that view.”

        Hosking: “No you are being too linear. It’s not a matter of a perfect model or a non-perfect model, it’s about nuance and subtlety.”

        Ardern: “Mike, if you’re saying you’re now a person of nuance and subtlety, bless. I am not going to claim perfection but I will stand by our response.” 😊

        It’s not about education and information, it’s just a game.

        Some will have time on their hands to watch tonight, (I won’t be) and undoubtedly the tone of the critics is already etched deep in their keyboards.Specifics can be added later. With the expected nuance and subtlety.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  22nd September 2020

          ”Ardern: “Mike, if you’re saying you’re now a person of nuance and subtlety, bless. I am not going to claim perfection but I will stand by our response.”

          Excellent. Hosking is about the only interviewer who can get under Jacinda’s skin.
          There’s a reason for that.

          I will call the debate as I see it. You seem to be suggesting obliquely I’m another political sycophant. I’m not. I just think National is the better option of a a bad bunch.

          BtW…thanks for listening to Mike this morning. He’s the only game in town during the time period.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  22nd September 2020

            Under his skin ?
            “Mike, if you’re saying you’re now a person of nuance and subtlety, bless.
            That was more like a wallop to chops of the pretentiousness of the 55yr old ‘faux millennial’
            Shes saying ‘Im better at this game Mike and Im PM as well…eat that’

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  22nd September 2020

              Yeah, you are right. That is what’s so delicious…down the track that is.

          • duperez

             /  22nd September 2020

            Listen to him? I read the Hosking thing. If I’m on his station in the morning when he starts his pre-6 whinge of the day, the dial moves. The Herald was good enough to present the slap-down to catch the eye.

            I admit I’ve been tempted to listen this week to hear how he would have fixed the Harbour Bridges, other Harbour crossings and why, once again, Auckland doesn’t need comprehensive public transport. Maybe because he lives on the south side of the bridge he didn’t pontificate because it didn’t affect him so much.

            Reply
      • Corky

         /  22nd September 2020

        Excellent point, Blazer. It just shows the different mindsets of a Lefty and Righty. One hates; the other says…let it be.

        Reply
  8. Blazer

     /  22nd September 2020

    …Panama Papers…but wait ..there’s more…for those big banks we know and ‘love’…the bastions of financial jurisprudence ….moneylaundering,fraud…all done in the best …possible..taste…

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd September 2020

      From the first press release it seemed NZ’s catch is an order of magnitude or two less than the costs of our money laundering legislation almost all of which is bourne by the private sector.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  22nd September 2020

        The $10 billion figure refers to the Police Financial Intelligence Unit estimate that $1.35 billion of drug and fraud offending is laundered annually in New Zealand.
        Costs of money laundering will be a tiny part of the annual $1 bill or so

        Reply
  9. Alan Wilkinson

     /  22nd September 2020

    This website and Bob Jones’ were down for me earlier this afternoon. Others seemed normal.

    Reply

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