Open Forum Sunday

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141 Comments

  1. Patzcuaro

     /  4th October 2020

    Subtle voter suppression by the Republican Governor of Texas.

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  4th October 2020

      All done in the name of ballot security of course.

      “Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued a proclamation Thursday limiting the amount of drop-off locations for mail-in ballots to one site per county.

      The move significantly affects the Democratic stronghold of Harris County, which is the state’s largest county by population — one of the most populous in the country — and covers a massive area. It must now reduce its 12 drop-off locations down to one starting on Friday, according to Elizabeth Lewis, spokeswoman for the Harris County Clerk’s Office. Travis County, which includes the reliably Democratic city of Austin, must limit its four drop-off locations to one.
      Other large counties — like Tarrant, Dallas and El Paso County — only had one drop-off location already in place.
      The Republican governor said in a statement the order was made to enhance ballot security. It also allows poll watchers to observe the in-person delivery of mail-in ballots by voters, but critics say it could severely limit access for many voters.”

      https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

      Reply
      • I saw that a day or two ago. It’s just another sign of the corrupt political system in the US.

        Reply
        • A Canadian friend living in the US says that the papers destined for (Democrat?) voters have been found dumped in a river, just one of many such cases.

          Reply
          • Republican voters. The FBI found a lot in a dump in Pennsylvania and more were found in a river. Republican voters are less likely to receive their voting papers…thank goodness it’s all done by the electoral commission here.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              “The FBI found a lot in a dump in Pennsylvania and more were found in a river. ”
              There were 7 found in Pennsylvania.

              The US voting system is so decentralized theres not even a state run voting system in any state, its all done the ‘county level’. The voting machines , the voter rolls , the election day polling stations can differ from one county to another within a state ( some statewide rules like opeing hours)
              Of course some Counties have nearly the population of NZ but others are a few 1000

          • There’s a lot of friends of people on social media making claims about voter fraud.

            AP News: Here’s the reality behind Trump’s claims about mail voting

            President Donald Trump continued his assault on the integrity of the U.S. elections during the first presidential debate Tuesday, spreading falsehoods about the security of voting and misrepresenting issues with mail ballots.

            Trump’s riff was laden with misstatements and inaccuracies. Mail voting has proved to be safe and secure in the five states that already use it broadly. And while some irregularities and errors have occurred in the early vote, Trump on Tuesday mischaracterized those incidents.

            — Voter fraud is rare in the United States. An analysis by the Brennan Center for Justice found Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning than to commit voter fraud.

            https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-joe-biden-election-2020-donald-trump-elections-3e8170c3348ce3719d4bc7182146b582

            Reply
          • Specifically on the river dumping:

            ‘Dumped in rivers … creeks … wastepaper baskets’: Trump’s falsehoods on mail-in ballots

            “As far as the ballots are concerned, it’s a disaster,” Trump said before claiming that there is widespread fraud in mail-in elections — that’s false. He also claimed without evidence that ballots were being dumped in rivers and creeks, and he made a sweeping, also unsupported claim that ballots were being sold by postal workers.

            “There’s fraud. They found them in creeks. They found some with the name ‘Trump,’ just happened to have the name ‘Trump,’ just the other day, in a wastepaper basket,” he said. Later, he claimed that ballots were being “dumped in rivers.”

            That is mostly false. Numerous studies have debunked the notion that there is substantial, widespread voter fraud in American elections, whether they are conducted predominantly by mail or otherwise. There’s also no evidence of fraud or of ballots’ being dumped in bodies of water — whether they’re creeks or rivers.

            https://news.yahoo.com/dumped-rivers-creeks-wastepaper-baskets-050106380.html

            Reply
            • My friend is not an idiot or believer in conspiracy theories, so the stories must be convincing if she believes them. I am glad to think that they are not true.

            • My friend is not a ‘social media’ friend. I wouldn’t regard someone like that as a friend if that was all the contact we had.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              Once the ‘social media’ equivalent was letters, does that count?
              text messages are no different, nor private emails…dont really see how you can separate out ‘social media’ when its merely a newer former of communication.

            • Jack

               /  4th October 2020

              Oh dear, how tragic. I do consider people here to be my friends!
              God help me!!

            • Duker, one can communicate online with people one actually knows as well as with people one hasn’t met. K & I know each other in ‘real life’.

              I said ‘if that was all the contact we had’.

              I will refrain from making the obvious answer to Jack’s remark.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              Did you catch the bit the other day where jack mentioned she was trespassed …from a church ( of all places!)
              No wonder its online only for her
              but I never meant blogs , it was more the emails , facebook etc where people communicate person to person and they may meet on things online groups or even dating sites.

            • You are joking ! Trespassed from a CHURCH ? What on earth did she do? I tend to glance at her posts at most, but missed that.

              Her tragedy is that she never seems able to see that it’s not that everyone else is wrong, like the soldier’s mother saying that everyone was out of step but him.

              It’s interesting hearing about the current US situation from someone who’s there but not American. She and her husband can’t afford to go to Canada to live as he’s American and, from what I gather, wouldn’t have the equivalent of ‘super’ there. She’d like to, though, in spite of being happy in the US for many years.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              She said St Stephens had trespassed her… I had no idea of the reasons but not all surprised as I think we only ‘see’ the tip of the iceberg on her ‘ideology’

  2. Blazer

     /  4th October 2020

    Winston’s finest hour.

    ‘New Zealand politics in the mid 1990s was consumed by the winebox debate, a vast and sprawling, summary-defying political, financial and legal scandal about the sale of government assets and the bailout of the Bank of New Zealand. This happened under the fourth Labour government and during the first term of the Bolger National government. The merchant bank Fay Richwhite advised the government during its sale of some of these assets, and it had also been a part purchaser of the same assets, in a series of transactions and bailouts in which the state and minority shareholders lost hundreds of millions of dollars but Fay Richwhite made an estimated half a billion dollars.

    Peters brought a winebox of leaked documents to parliament that were alleged to show financial transactions allegedly involving Fay Richwhite being routed through the Cook Islands in an alleged tax evasion scheme involving the Bank of New Zealand – which was still half owned by the New Zealand government. Inland Revenue and the Serious Fraud Office had investigated and found nothing suspicious and this, Peters announced, pointed to fraud and/or incompetence in both of these organisations.

    There was an inquiry which dragged on for three years. Defamation cases and court cases branched off from it. There were appeals which ruled against the findings of the inquiry. No one ever figured out what happened, or who won, or what it all meant.’-D.Maclauchlan-
    Spinoff.

    How to make the rich list in NZ…’ the state and minority shareholders lost hundreds of millions of dollars but Fay Richwhite made an estimated half a billion dollars.’

    Talk about ‘other peoples…money’!

    ACT funder got plenty too.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  4th October 2020

      You can’t trust socialists, eh, Blazer. Here, you can have this sell-out too.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10680372

      I wouldn’t be suprised if we hear he’s taken up weaving kete.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  4th October 2020

        Bolger is the only ex Nat P.M I have any time for.

        Its called crony capitalism…Corky.

        Remaindering state assets on the cheap is ACT’s raison d’etre.

        Reply
        • Even YOU can’t believe that or expect other people to believe it !!!

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  4th October 2020

            Ask Gibbs….he may put you…right.

            Reply
            • I wouldn’t insult someone’s intelligence by asking such a stupid question.

              No party would have that as its main aim.

          • Fight4nz

             /  4th October 2020

            Read the article. Look at the ACT poll results for the last 30 years. Everyone knows it to be true. What’s incomprehensible is that you can’t see it.

            Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  4th October 2020

          Funny how assets become more valuable in private ownership isn’t it?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  4th October 2020

            Hehehe
            Wilco forgets Gibbs and Co IMMEDIATELY sold their shares for a huge profit and said so …hes doesnt care that the taxpayers who built the business were conned

            “Three years later he and business partner Trevor Farmer get their big payday when they stump up about $200 million for 112 million Telecom shares. They immediately sell 67.5 million shares for $256 million, making a cool $56 million profit. Plus, having bought at $1.81 and sold at $3.80 per share, the balance of their shares is worth about $170 million. An asset sale deal close to heaven.”
            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10824121

            Some business people create something from nothing, others click the ticket on others work

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th October 2020

              Haha, your link shows exactly how Gibbs increased Telecom’s value with efficiencies over bureaucratic ownership.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              The article says Gibbs sold half shares for huge profit IMMEDIATELY …no changes to increase efficiency in those timelines

              Hes also said that telecom 20 yrs after sold into private owners was only worth the original price taxpayers plus inflation (he had long sold by then) as we all know the management run it into the gutter with a series of clueless CEOs.

              We ended up buying almost a majority of the ‘local lines network’ back through Joyces $900 mill deal with Chorus. ( 45%)
              Spark was the part kept private with the mobile network and the long distance data lines in NZ.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th October 2020

              I recall the old pre-privatisation Telecom installing an internet line for Ford. It took three visits by three different teams. The first put the wires in. The second checked connectivity. The third installed the modem.

              I also recall when getting a phone here was measured in months. We went to Canada and I rang BCTel. “I’m sorry, we can’t do it this morning. Would after lunch be ok?”

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th October 2020

              Go read it properly. Gibbs bought shares on a deferred payment basis, did the restructure and then paid up and sold at the achieved price.

            • I remember when having an extension was charged for as if it was a separate phone line (my flatmate’s father installed ours; it was a flat with an upstairs kitchen and bathroom and a steep staircase, so by the time we reached the phone from up there, the person had often hung up) It was a very simple job, as I remember, and our illegal new phone was much appreciated. It meant that we didn’t have to pay two phone bills !

              I don’t ever remember waiting months for a phone to be connected. It seemed to happen almost as soon as one moved in. We never lived in a house that didn’t have a phone in place.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              People were waiting still for Broadband lines 10 years ago when it was only copper , yes they had the phone line but broadband data connection was rationed and in some semi rural areas could take 12 months or longer
              From 2007
              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/jenny-keown/news/article.cfm?a_id=312&objectid=10421467
              ISPs pin broadband delay on Telecom

            • I don’t remember a wait for broadband, only that it was marvellous to be on that and not dial-up (what a pain in the bum that was, with the phone out of action when anyone was using a computer)

            • It used to be that NZPO had a monopoly and could charge what it liked, as well as making people rent the phones. No one would want to go back to that, surely. Taxpayers were being ripped off by the company that they supposedly owned. I remember international calls when I was little; we made them very seldom and they only went on for a few minutes; if one went over the time, it was charged as if it was a full-length call. It was the equivalent of a shop charging the same for 1100g as for 2kg on the grounds that it was over 1kg,

              Alan Gibbs can’t be held responsible for mismanagement years after he was gone.

            • Blazer

               /  5th October 2020

              ‘Alan Gibbs can’t be held responsible for mismanagement years after he was gone.’….a common and very tedious line.

              Just like the asset stripping at NZ Rail undertaken by Fay Richwhite,leaving an indebted ,inefficient entity.

              For those who don’t know ..Gibbs and Fay were ‘gifted’ the 10% ‘Kiwishare’ holding when the yanks swallowed up Telecom.

              Few are chosen!

    • Duker

       /  4th October 2020

      “No one ever figured out what happened, or who won, or what it all meant.’”

      Not correct . Peters WON, because the two judge panel ruled that the Commsion of Enqury ( a retired Chief justice !) got it wrong on the law regarding tax evasion.
      They famously pased a series of cheques around the table in Auckland purporting to be business transactions through the Cook Islands ( their government took a cut of the money , a tiny cut) to evade paying tax on large sums in NZ.
      Maclaughlan a noted Greens supporter just doesnt want to give Peters and his lawyer Brian Henry a win. Spinoff would never run a story that lauded ANYTHING Peters did, its a woke propaganda shop ( where its journos mostly work on ‘pay to play’ articles with some reporting as a side gig)

      It was a great WIN for NZ taxpayers in that the Court decision was based on what really happened rather than the pretence follwing the black letter law. For decades the pretence of following the black letter law in tax matters was enforced by a very conservative President of the Court of Appeal ( who chooses the judges including himself to hear cases)

      Reply
  3. Duker

     /  4th October 2020

    It must be election time , politicians promises …check. Kissing babies ….. well a thumb suck…. Collins finding time to PRAY…..what….and having a camera crew in tow.
    This is someone who has never had any known faith or church attendance other than minimal.
    Key like Clark was non religious, English definitely was a person of faith ( but never made anything of it publically ) Bridges was known to be religious and the same for Muller.

    But hypocrisy award of the year goes to Collins… for making the impression shes religious and then being photographed like she is just doing another photo opportunity … is there no end to her shameless behaviour

    Reply
    • Jack

       /  4th October 2020

      Whatever, Duker. Perhaps she prayed that NZ raises up privately rich people who love their country more than self

      If you want to suggest motives, I think mine is more likely correct – Jacinda gets cameras for public bluster, crowd lovers. Judith lovingly allowed a camera for private sincerity, respecter of individuals.

      You don’t understand religion and the cults. The difference between J&J is stark. Good on Judith for being brave enough to allow us room for perception.

      The reason Judith would not have found that easy is not the same as how you accuse her of not being ‘religious’ before now. How come you twist the truth mercilessly?

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  4th October 2020

      Be kind, Duker. You know you want to.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  4th October 2020

        People who believe in karma can’t be kind

        Reply
        • Yes, they can. Kharma goes both ways.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  4th October 2020

            A Christian rejects the notion of kharma. It’s for the immature and poor souls blown about by winds. God is Love

            Reply
            • That shows that you don’t know what it means. It’s basically cause and effect, not the bad luck that the ignorant take it to mean.

              Do you believe that one reaps what one sows ? That’s kharma. And it’s in the Bible. ‘…whatever a man soweth, that shall he reap.’ (Galatians, 6:7)

              Tut, tut, do you reject the Bible as being for the immature and poor souls blown about by the wind ?

      • Duker

         /  4th October 2020

        “Be kind, Duker. You know you want to.”

        have you just heard about Collins this year…. the Dirty Politics data showed she enjoys a nasty brand of politics AND retribution ( in double)
        As well she wasnt loyal to Bridges as Hooton revealed recently there was an putsch underway last year against him.
        The challenging team …..Collins and deputy was Mullerhooton , but couldnt get the numbers …this year they dropped Collins ( because she was so disliked in the caucus) and made it Muller- Kay – with Amy Adams as a 3rd leg of the stool- bringing in the bigger liberal wing
        “Muller was the only possible candidate in May, Hooton said. He revealed that Collins and Muller attempted to roll Bridges in April 2019, with Collins as a leader and Muller as deputy, but they couldn’t get the numbers.” https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12367438

        Hager used her direct quotes , which the media pundits have pretended dont exist….
        if only Hilary Clinton could have everything apart from the previous year wiped clean like that.

        Who wants to find out that Collins has some traits of Muldoon, and not the good ones. Theres a conspiracy of Silence over the ‘lady from Dirty Politics’

        Disloyal ..check
        Central character in Dirty Politics …check ( the chapter on ‘nasty politics’

        and now the campaign stop ‘in a church to pray’

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  4th October 2020

          The daily ad hominem, Duker?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  4th October 2020

            Diversion …
            Goes to her character and personal compass, her fitness for higher office.
            being an electorate MP is a low bar….Falloon, Hamish Walker

            Its actually what people consider most…. policies nowdays are just ‘confusion marketing’- where you appear to have good deals- and deliberately so.
            ( Is that a 4 lane highway or just safety improvements , is it a new hospital or just a/c for the wards, is this really lower debt and more spending and cutting taxes)
            Thats the real reason nothing gets done….

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th October 2020

              No, people vote for politicians they think.will be good for their wallet as well as any other pet fantasies they have. They don’t care about character because it doesn’t matter much when everything is decided by who has the votes.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  4th October 2020

      Probably praying for divine intervention, National is going to need it.

      Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  4th October 2020

          “When it comes to party-vote support, Labour is well ahead on 47 per cent, National on 28 per cent and the Greens on 13 per cent.”

          The all important party vote, I’m happy for National to have Auckland Central in exchange for the above party vote.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  4th October 2020

            A traditional Labour seat but we’ll see if it’s a trend or not.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              Not at all, maybe 20 years go, but house price inflation put paid to that .
              Plus boundary changes carved off some abour leaning areas into MT Albert including PT Chevalier in 2008 – when national won it
              Boundary changes have made a lot of seats unrecognizable to them before 2000.
              Example east Coast used to be Gisborne based and included Wairoa. Now Napier seat extends to the rural suburbs outside Gisborne and extends the other side well into Bay of Plenty almost to beach side suburbs along from mount Manganui.
              many provincial city seats now include the rural areas around them.
              The basic reason is population growth outside of Auckland and a few places has outstripped the smaller centres so seats have migrated to Auckland and others have got a lot bigger in area.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  4th October 2020

              It was a tradition Labour seat, now it might be social liberal but fiscally conservative, more a marginal seat depending on the quality of the candidate. If I still lived in Auckland Central I would vote locally for Swarbrick, she is an asset in parliament.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              The left wing vote in many inner urban seats is split to Labour and Greens
              with Greens a distant 3rd but enough to deny labour victory.

              In Australia with compulsory and preferences its a different dynamic. The Greens in inner urban seats come second on primary vote but its liberal preferences ( which almost always have labour near last) overturn the result. The other result is independents can do quite well by the same method , but its 3rd placed labour which puts independents ahead after preferences

    • Griff.

       /  4th October 2020

      And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
      are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
      in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
      Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
      Matthew 6:5

      Fuck off with your god bothering it ain’t going to boost your chances in this country Colins.

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  4th October 2020

        How is one Christian photographed praying god bothering?
        Griff’s attitude is the beginnings of hate speech laws.
        We’ll know what god bothering is when any religious group gets photographed and no one dares mock.
        Griff gets to mock one Christian.
        Politics for Christians is daring to be one isolated individual, for the sake of the body of Christ.
        It’s always the Church which leads humanity.

        In that photograph I don’t see a pharasee boosted by his pharasical crowd. I see an individual Kiwi minding her own business. Take it or leave it, but fight that we might not get hate speech laws

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  4th October 2020

          Yip
          Quote the bible to a Christian and they can not cope with the implications of what bejesus is claimed to have said.

          Pictures of Colins preying are being published as part of her political campaign.
          Look at me the pious Christian see me prey.
          Something that Mathew 6.5 warns against.

          Pharasee?
          You mean those Jesus learnt his philosophy off.
          דעלך סני לחברך לא תעביד. זו היא כל התורה כולה, ואידך פירושה הוא: זיל גמור
          Hillel the Elder 110 BCE–10 CE.

          Reply
        • You must mean Pharisee/pharasaical. Do you ever read the Bible ?

          Reply
        • Oops…pharisaical, not pharAsaical…..

          Pharisee is a proper name and has a capital P.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  4th October 2020

            Tangled up in your corrections of others …which then need correcting of yourself…
            This isnt Miss Caitkens english class

            Reply
            • Anyone can make a typo, which that was; had I not known this, I wouldn’t have known to correct it.

              There are four errors in your post; and the post is only three lines.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              I knew you would say that…. I often leave little hooks to catch the fish.

        • Duker

           /  4th October 2020

          Shes NOT a practicing christian , shes just doing a photo op for the election…. worst of all, other national leaders who were regular church goers didnt use the pew as vote getter.
          Griff was quoting the bible …surely you arent disputing its message about the hypocrites praying….opps of course you do. Can you regularly go into a church without being trespassed ?

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  4th October 2020

            Duker, Jacinda is NOT a practising all-loving kind politician. She only does the photo ops to make idiots think so. She’s the sort who allows your nastiness but not mine

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              Wow …you have only just found out shes a politician like Collins

              Which is the one Mathew 6.5 warns against… even Collins has said it was ‘occasional and sometimes’ in the story…
              Yep . Weddings Funerals …and now elections

              for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men.

              MAY BE SEEN …

              and the last part in the cincher
              ” I tell you, they have received their reward.”
              On election day she will rewarded with defeat

      • Kimbo

         /  4th October 2020

        Tend to agree with you on this one, Griff, even if Jesus uses hyperbole to make his point, e.g. “if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off”.

        But, yeah a rather gratuitous grab for the conservative vote, especially among the Pacific Island community (hence the mention of her husband being part-Samoan in the first debate). Even though the predominantly Pakeha/Palagi decision makers of National bumped Alfred Ngaro, the standard bearer of that particular religious/ethnic/cultural demographic down their party list.

        Have no reason to suspect Collins’ faith is not genuine, and sure, if you want to pitch for the voters for whom, say, keeping cannabis illegal, opposing euthanasia and having a PM who is married rather than living with a partner is important. Personally the latter are not worth the time of day, and better to be ruled by a competent Turk than an incompetent Christian prince. But everyone gets a vote.

        Reply
        • Jack

           /  4th October 2020

          I don’t think it could be possible for a Christian political prince to be incompetent…
          Which begs the question – what is a Christian?
          A Christian carries his cross and does so with the attitude that his spiritual talents are all for the Church/for Jesus Christ/for the edification of the body of Christ.
          In NZ it is highly unlikely a Christian without the spiritual talent of apostleship would put his hand up to be PM.
          I doubt that Judith allowed that photo for anything but genuine leadership for the good of the country. She is not much a conservative (voted yes to euthanasia). She’s just Judith and desires to serve. I think that photo was apolitical

          Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  4th October 2020

            I don’t think it could be possible for a Christian political prince to be incompetent…

            Then you think wrong:

            King Henry VI of England

            King Charles I of England, Scotland and Ireland

            Tsar Nicholas II of Russia

            All devoutly pious Christian men with genuine love and doting care for their wives and families, and love for God

            …yet total disasters.

            Julius Nyerere of Tanzania is a modern example. US President Jimmy Carter another.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  4th October 2020

              That’s what I mean Kimbo.I thought you’d probably give some examples, but were they Christians? Perhaps they weren’t

        • Duker

           /  4th October 2020

          Scott Morrison made much of images ( perception is everything , especially in an social media world) of him doing all the raised arms at a church service….but it was genuine in that he was well known for that type of faith and a regular church goer

          Collins is a ‘never on sundays’ type of Christian and the idea that she is now a ‘church goer’ is laughable

          Some will remember that film, or could look it up …..hehehehe

          Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  4th October 2020

      Crushing it

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  5th October 2020

        Bad news. Collins claims this wasn’t a photo shoot. It was suggested to her that as she was in/near a church she might like to pray. She started praying; looked up , and saw a posse of photographers snapping away.

        Are you going to call Collins a liar?

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  5th October 2020

          Saint Judith?

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  5th October 2020

            I used to think very highly of Jacinda when she started out too then it didn’t take long for me to think I could see her true colours. She is NOT kind, she’s a leader of mind fuzzies.

            Saint Judith? Every Christian is a saint.
            St Kitty
            St Kimbo
            St Jack…

            Heard David Seymour once say that the media are a pain. Perhaps Judith was having a joke. I think that’s possible. Lots of Kiwis are uptight. I think Judith could be a PM to bring back laughter

            Reply
        • Duker

           /  5th October 2020

          “Collins claims this wasn’t a photo shoot.”
          Then why were the media even aware she was ‘doing prayer’

          “Are you going to call Collins a liar?”
          was the church on the way to the airport

          Weddings, funerals…elections. Thats Judiths time in church. Did we ever get pics of English ‘praying in his church’ we know he was a regular attender? he would never had put it on his media schedule but no so for our instant coffee churchgoer Collins

          The campaign has been going for some weeks now wheres the previous piousness ?

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  5th October 2020

            Are you afraid that Judith has a charisma about her which gives lefties opportunity to shake themselves clear of Jacinda’s nonsense?

            Stop thumping your keypad. Winston and Judith could work together, just need more prayers

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  5th October 2020

            “Collins claims this wasn’t a photo shoot.”
            Then why were the media even aware she was ‘doing prayer

            Maybe they followed her into the Church?

            What I need is for you or Patz to call Judith a liar. Do it, or are you another gutless snievlling Lefty?

            Reply
            • Patzcuaro

               /  5th October 2020

              Why would I call Collins a liar? All politicians can be economical with the truth.

            • They did follow her in. If she was going to broadcast her beliefs, she’d have done so before.

        • Blazer

           /  5th October 2020

          I’ll call her a liar…she has been caught multiple times.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  5th October 2020

            “caught multiple times” by liars.
            No one is honest as God

            Unbelievers quoting scripture, is obvious their attitude.

            Christians ought to encourage one another. If they don’t, then there’s no guarantee those individuals are truly Christians

            Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  5th October 2020

            Christians should also rebuke one another when it is apposite:

            All Scripture is is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, reproof/rebuking, correcting and retaining in righteousness. (II Timothy 3:16)

            You seem to view it your ministry to point out the allegedly grievous faults of others, yet squeal like a stuck pig when others – both Christian and pagan – call you out for your obvious faults of nit-picking, selfishness and self-centredness, being ever eager to pick a fight, nurse an alleged grievance and yes, troll.

            And that you are too arrogant and wilful to take that advise, much less consider the obvious that you and you alone are the primary cause of division and social ostracism both here and in your church life (and doubtless others spheres) reinforces the reason you quote and apply the Scriptures in such a self-righteousness manner, and appealing in self-justification to an amorphous continually undefined “not carrying your cross” to smack others down.

            Did I mention you are a thoroughly annoying, obnoxious…indeed spiritually toxic person, whom any church of whom would wisely steer well clear. But the good news is that, if you repent, you can be forgiven and begin the process of transformation. I suggest you do so, rather than be a continual pest to others around her going about their business, or taking advantage of Pete George’s good grace.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              A big Al teaching point (PG extends grace to him plenty of times) —
              The response of Kimbo the Calvinist.
              Guess that means no apology ho him

              I submit to readers here that Kimbo indeed is not carrying his cross.

              That was a beautiful response Kimbo. Who is your scapegoat?

            • Please stop applying belief labels to others like carrying crosses.

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              How does Kimbo, a Christian as he has shared here, need mod to tell me to stop talking about the cross?

              This cross roads has happened before with us all here Pete. Please could you clarify?

              I need you to tell me to go away, not my fellow members

              It may seem to others that I am provocative. If this is so, then it is merely an indication of the extreme and ongoing provocations against me within the church of my upbringing. Should my voice be silenced?

              I think these discussions are important to our country. But if you wish me to go away, please say so publicly.

              You always told me to just keep arguing if people got abusive

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              If I’m not allowed to lovingly challenge Kimbo my fellow Christian to carry his cross – yet he rants ugly like that? You’d censor my words but not Duker who is constantly sniping?

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              Alan, who made it clear that he thinks I don’t think always gets to provoke ‘the lefties’. This is a secular site and I took my cue from him.

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              I would never EVER “smack others down with the cross”

              My cross is my treasure. No taonga compares with my cross to bear. It’s not a weapon. How does Kimbo get the sympathy when it’s me in tears?

              How do ‘fellow Christians’ get to put me out, abusing me so that I stumble and drop my cross, all the while extending mercy to them because I believe in Jesus’ cross, then get all the sympathy? How?!?

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              How Kimbo! How? Answer this forum, or lose the argument

            • Kimbo

               /  5th October 2020

              No one is stumbling you. Neither is anyone abusing you. Instead you are being called out for your crappy behaviour, including your egocentric victim mentality, sniping and guilt-tripping of others. Stop it and they will stop. In the meantime stop acting like a fatuous bore.

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              OK then, that’s cleared up – neither of us intend to stop.

              You sure do acknowledge the power you think I’m wielding here. Not bad for one wee cross bearer.

              You behave badly Kimbo and have laid before the readers confirmation of the things I’ve been saying

              I’m not a victim Kimbo. Did you not get that?

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              And you didn’t answer my question, so I will. Repetitive admittedly but we need reminded. Up further, Corky mentions Muslim passports and something about the West being asleep.

              How could Kimbo get the sympathy for being an abuser? Because good Kiwis are not so much rejecting Jesus’ cross as they are failing to identify and carry their own. Then in reverse, as Kimbo’s rant illustrates, Kiwis who don’t carry their crosses get alarmed or rude regarding Jesus’ cross. That in turn shuts down freedom of thought.

            • Blazer

               /  5th October 2020

              Kimbo has summed you quite well and actually been very charitable.

              Your daily rants while tolerated ,should not be imo.
              You have categorically stated on more than one occassion you would refrain from posting here.

              [Deleted. PG]

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              Yes I have Blazer, and got back up again afterwards

              Last time, Pete suggested I was harassing, that’s why I went away. It’s his site

              If that treatment is charitable, what next?

            • Charles I’s letter to his mistress is an eye-opener as he says what he feels like by way of a good (archaic word, but I am sure that you can guess what he had in mind) He was married then, it was fairly near the end of his life. The letter is authentic.

              The others wouldn’t be Christians by Jack’s standard, I imagine, particularly the RC and Orthodox ones.

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              That is a misrepresentation of me and why I need Kitty to stop harassing. She claims to hardly read my comments. It’s obvious.

              [Deleted. Ironic that you accuse others of misrepresenting you when you keep applying your own representations of others. PG]

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              [Deleted]

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              And Blazer sometimes forgets his………….

            • Kimbo

               /  5th October 2020

              @ Kitty

              Charles I or his son, Charles II? The latter was a womaniser who fathered a string of bastards, but not so his father, I thought.

  4. Patzcuaro

     /  4th October 2020

    Apparently NZ passport is ranked number one in the world.

    https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

    Reply
    • The US doesn’t do too well !

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  4th October 2020

      The NZ passport is the best one for leaving. It doesn’t rank so well on coming back.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  4th October 2020

        You should see the Australian passport ..you CANT leave- literally ( unless you can prove to a bureaucrat you qualify for an exemption)

        Reply
      • duperez

         /  5th October 2020

        I realise there are travel restrictions but the very clever will have worked it out. The passport is good, they’ve told us the country is stuffed, they could even be confronted with Ardern being PM again.

        Watch those brains go into overdrive, watch the steely resolve, watch the rising and harnessing of pioneering spirit which brought their ancestors here.

        Like those brave folk they’ll be off, never to return. Won’t they?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  5th October 2020

          Passports are intended for returnee citizens, dups.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  6th October 2020

            The tragically disenchanted will flush theirs down the dunny or do anything to escape. 😊

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  6th October 2020

              Most will just go on welfare, dups. And those without the magic passport to whom “be kind” definitely doesn’t apply will be shipped unceremoniously back to where they came from after their wallets have first been emptied.

    • Corky

       /  5th October 2020

      Interesting. The bottom 8 passports are all issued by Muslim countries. If that doesn’t tell the West something, nothing will.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  5th October 2020

        Interesting that the bottom few countries have all been invaded by the…West.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th October 2020

          And rightly so.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  5th October 2020

            Please explain why….at least you can join dots!

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  5th October 2020

              They have killed our own…and there’s oil that we need to maintain our lifestyle we are accustomed to. Don’t ever forget how lucky we are thanks to America. I don’t know why you Lefties diss them.

              Do you think China would walk so softly in the Pacific if they didn’t fear Uncle Sam?

              You can either have morality or a lifestyle…you need to choose.

            • Duker

               /  5th October 2020

              The deal the Us offered was to be partners in security and trade not vassals who have to be on their knees in front of Dog Almighty

            • Corky

               /  5th October 2020

              What are you on about now?

  5. Jack

     /  4th October 2020

    Alan Wilkinson on 4th October 2020 at 1:42 pm
    “Possibly you fail to grasp the distinction between mocking and malevolence” (another thread)

    Excellent! Kitty practises both. In return I willfully practice malevolence and delighted to do so.

    Alan is excellent with words. Kitty is too and quite intelligent. Blazer trumps both though. If Kitty is a Christian, then I think she has the spiritual talent of teaching. If she practises that, with the attitude that she’s doing so for THE Church, then I would be encouraged. We would both be carrying our crosses and our country would benefit.

    Can’t let slip by a big Al teaching point.
    I’m malevolent toward the Presbyterians too. Mine is at the lower end of the M scale and it’s becoming a pleasure to watch them squirm.
    It’s crazy how Christians in NZ mock each other. That needs to change

    Reply
  6. Jack

     /  4th October 2020

    Karma concept comes from eastern religions – Buddhism and Hinduism, perhaps others? (It fits with reincarnation too, that awful cycle of never being good enough and never coming to rest.) It couldn’t get further from the truth regarding ‘reap what you sow’ as Jesus taught.
    A great part of our problem in NZ society stems from people taking Bible verses out of context and from Christians not carrying their crosses.

    Reply
    • Jack

       /  4th October 2020

      Yes Griff. Jesus learnt from the Pharisees. Then he proved that he is God.

      I also learn from the ‘pharisees’, and others, and I prove to my friends here that I am carrying my cross

      Reply
      • Er, no. We are not told who was at the temple where he studied, only that they were doctors. And Galatians was written some years after the crucifixion. The reaping what you sow is from Paul, not the Gospels.

        If you read the Bible, you will see these things.

        Reply
    • The word may come from Buddhism. The concept doesn’t.

      You have totally misunderstood it and the concept of reincarnation. People who lead good lives go onto a better one, those who don’t, don’t. Look it up. Your idea would make it all pointless.

      Galatians is one of the Epistles of St Paul, not one of the Gospels, as you would know if you read the Bible.That verse is not taken out of context; there is more to the same effect. Have you actually read the Bible at all ?

      Reply
      • Jack

         /  4th October 2020

        Yes, do you want to carry your cross Kitty? Asked with utmost respect

        Reply
        • You can ask until you are black in the face. I have told you many times that my beliefs are none of your business.

          Respect would mean that you stopped prying into people’s private beliefs when you have been repeatedly asked to do so.

          Reply
          • Jack

             /  4th October 2020

            Sometimes it looks like you’ve carried your cross on this thread. Sometimes not

            Reply
      • Kimbo

         /  4th October 2020

        The concept and word “karma” originally come from the Hinduism from whence Buddhism is derived. In its original context it is the amoral impersonal doling out of successive lives of suffering based on past deeds through successive cycles of reincarnation until all acts that cause suffering are evened out like an inexorable giant cosmic ledger. Only then will the “mistake” of material being be extinguished like a drop of water back into the eternal ocean that is the oneness of (the impersonal) “God”.

        In the Judeao-Christian-Muslim view, God is (unlike Hinduism and Buddhism) personal, moral and just. One of the ways he exhibits his justice is that, through providence those who do evil often have evil visited upon them…in this life, and as a direct or indirect consequence of their evil. Hardly surprising as human beings (created in the first instance in God’s image according to the Scriptures in which Paul’s letter to the Galatians is found) have an innate sense of justice. Hence, for the sake of social cohesion the “lawless” are seldom left to pursue their mayhem. Hence, to use the agrarian imagery typical of the ancient Mediterranean world in which the Bible was originally written, “as a man sows, so shall he reap”. Not the same as karma due to a personal God dispensing justice, rather than an impersonal calculator dishing out suffering.

        However, words and concepts change over time and Kitty is right if we are talking colloquial modern shorthand. Karma and “sowing and reaping” divorced from their original respective Indian subcontinent and Ancient Judaea-Christian Mediterranean contexts have the same idea to the general secular populace.

        Karma is not a term I as a Christian would use due to the potential confusion/syncretism. But I can see why some would choose to do so as it has an immediate resonance not obvious to more urbanised people today compared to “sowing and reaping”.

        Reply
        • No, I wasn’t using ‘shorthand’ in the usual modern sense that karma means punishment. My impression is that it means sowing and reaping; an over-simplification, of course, but it would take too long to go into it thoroughly.

          As I understand it, living a really bad life would mean being reincarnated as something like a cockroach.

          Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  4th October 2020

            Yes, as per Hinduism and Buddhism that is a possible outcome.

            But Judeao-Christian-Islamic doctrine is that we live but two lives, one before the Final Judgement and one after. “Sowing and reaping” apply in both, imperfectly at times during the first. But not karma, much less cycles of reincarnation.

            Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  4th October 2020

            You could also argue that karma and successive cycles of reincarnation are a rather grim process, even if, even is ultimately sometime in eternity material existence will be extinguished…unless of course, through some imbalance Iain the cosmic “oneness” that caused our current alleged wheel of reincarnation, the whole thing repeats again.

            For instance, it is kinda illogical to alleviate suffering if you thing karma is in force. Why relieve the difficulties of a blind beggar or give him aid when the real reason he is suffering is he was a real bastard in his previous lives. Indeed, helping him in his suffering just leaves more unaddressed bad karma for which he will have to suffer in future reincarnation. So the “kind” thing is to leave him to balance that karma ledger ASAP.

            Also, as per above, while “karma” has some sort of mental appeal, it is existentially unliveable. Good people and societies view material existence as “real”, not illusions to be escaped. Hence we do not sit by when suffering occur, indeed we seek to alleviate it with material resources.

            Reply
          • Kimbo

             /  4th October 2020

            Practical example: George Harrison was a great song writer but why did a guy who, more than any other, helped popularised the concepts of karma and reincarnation in the West spend so much time bitching in a song like “Taxman” about the UK government taking 98% of his money (which is according to Hinduism/Buddhism just a material illusion multiplying his suffering)

            …or about his court cases with Paul McCartney and Alan Klein (isn’t your angst at legal “suffering” just karma working itself out?!).

            Better to suffer, get the bad karma “evened out” ASAP and then move on to something better.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  4th October 2020

              It looks like Kimbo has been trying to carry his cross, but alas his is a slippery one just now. My fellow Christian has not apologised for calling me a troll (and saying that I have no self awareness and mocking me). Pete himself said that we should moderate ourselves and that name calling is abusive.
              I’ll think about quickly forgiving you like I always do with minor offenses against me Kimbo, but I’m just getting in my big Al teaching points. Speed things up and apologise?
              If your cross to bear involves the spiritual talent of teaching Kimbo, then it must be carried with the attitude that you only use that talent for edifying the body of Christ. As you can see, I am in sore need of that. You should be using it for me here, not ‘them’

              A while ago Kitty falsely accused me of something or other, and quoted “in my Father’s house there are many rooms” out of context.
              I don’t get to be saved unless Jesus Christ has been accepted as my Saviour. The rooms in my Father’s house are not for everybody – it’s unkind to imply that they are.

              Karma is one import which is confusing immature Christians and should be avoided or exposed for what it is. Thank you for your explanations Kimbo.

              Jesus certainly did learn from the Pharisees in that he observed, obeyed the Father and decided not to be like them

          • I said ‘In my Father’s house, there are many mansions.’ (King James version)

            I have never accused you of anything false.

            You attribute things to almost everyone here that they have never said or given any reason for having these bizarre ideas attributed to them. You are indeed a troll and a stirrer.

            Go away, please.

            Reply
            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              [Deleted]

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              Ironically, I would have a lot less to say if the Christians who are off track would cease harassing me.

              Kimbo’s right – Christians should rebuke one another at times. But a secular blog site, and with no background knowledge, is hardly the place to do that.

              Idiots

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              “Go away please” – when you’re striking a chord and playing a tune which might be helpful for MY group.
              But stick around so that I can keep harassing you – hopes the person who claims to hardly read my comments yet looks around for me when I’m absent

            • Jack

               /  5th October 2020

              [Deleted]

  7. Jack

     /  5th October 2020

    [Deleted]

    Reply
    • I’m over this. I’d rather do other things than deal with this. It would be a shame to end here on a negative note but I don’t wish to support what’s happening here.

      Reply
  8. Jack

     /  5th October 2020

    [Deleted]

    Reply

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