White House Covid cluster

The growing White House Covid cluster could turn out to be a clusterfuck. Lax attitudes to Covid and lax protective measures may have contributed to a dangerous situation.

It appears that Covid may have been spreading amongst those associated with Trump for days before a positive test of close aide Hope Hicks raised the alarm – but not enough alarm to stop Trump travelling to and attending a fund raising event before his positive test result was made public.

The White House Covid cluster includes:

  • Donald Trump
  • Melania Trump
  • Hope Hicks (senior White House adviser who close aide too Trump)
  • Kelly Anne Conway (former adviser and current associate)
  • Bill Stepien (Trump campaign manager)
  • Chris Christie (ex N.J. Governor who helped Trump prepare for the debate on Tuesday)
  • Ronna McDaniel (Republican National Committee Chair)
  • Mike Lee (Senator R-Utah)
  • Thom Tillis (Senator R-N.C.)
  • Ron Johnson (Senator R-Wis.)

I’m sure there will be a lot of testing going on and more positive tests may come out of the cluster.

Trump is currently being treated in hospital. There are differing reports of his condition. He is in a high risk group due to his age and weight and presumed lack of physical activity.

There is also uncertainty about when Trump tested positive.

CBS News: Trump tweets he is “feeling well”; Source says his vitals were “very concerning”

It’s the most serious health crisis a president has faced since President Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981. 

Dr. Sean Conley, the president’s physician, told reporters on Saturday that Mr. Trump was not on oxygen. However, he sidestepped questions about whether the president had received oxygen treatment at the White House on Friday. 

Conley said Mr. Trump is “just 72 hours into the diagnosis now,” creating confusion about when the president found out he had COVID-19. He made the announcement about his positive test result early Friday morning, after appearing at a fundraiser at his club in Bedminster, New Jersey, hours earlier.

72 hours before Saturday is about Wednesday.

Reuters – Trump’s COVID-19 symptoms ‘very concerning’, next 48 hours critical: source

President Donald Trump is not yet on a clear path to recovery from COVID-19 and some of his vital signs over the last 24 hours were very concerning, a person familiar with his health said on Saturday.

The source’s assessment of the Republican president’s medical status seemed to be at odds to that of a team of doctors who said at a press conference earlier on Saturday that he was “doing very well.”

The source, who asked not to be identified, said the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of Trump’s care.

Trump left the White House and was moved to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center near Washington on Friday just hours after he was diagnosed with COVID-19.

Trump just getting Covid is concerning. The health of the president is a big deal. It’s hard to read how much the hospitalisation was precautionary and how much necessitated by Trump’s condition.

White House doctor Sean P. Conley told reporters outside the hospital on Saturday that Trump had not experienced difficulty breathing, and currently was not on supplemental oxygen.

“The team and I are extremely happy with the progress the president has made,” Conley said.

Conley said Trump had received a first dose of a five-day course of Remdesivir, an intravenous antiviral drug sold by Gilead Sciences Inc that has been shown to shorten hospital stays. He is also taking an experimental treatment, Regeneron’s REGN-COV2, one of several experimental COVID-19 drugs known as monoclonal antibodies, as well as zinc, Vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and aspirin, Conley has said.

That seems like a lot of drugs. They must be being administered based on top current medical advice, but there must be some risk from the experimental nature of the treatment.

So how did this Covid outbreak occur? Obviously many people associated with Trump travelling and mingling at campaign events raised the risks, as did a lax attitude to basic protective measures like wearing of masks.

Trump repeated mocking of Joe Biden for frequently wearing a mask at the Tuesday debate. Trump’s campaign is now in jeopardy while Biden can continue his cautious campaign (his campaign has sensibly withdrawn negative advertisements targeting of Trump).

There is some uncertainty about Trump’s condition and also when he tested positive.

Reuters: Relying on testing to ward off COVID put Trump White House at risk

Early in the coronavirus pandemic, U.S. President Donald Trump put his faith in a toaster-sized machine that could spit out test results in a matter of minutes.

In late March, Trump hailed the launch of Abbott Laboratories’ ID NOW test at a Rose Garden event and embraced its widespread use at the White House to keep the deadly virus at bay. The president often skipped his own administration’s public health recommendations on mask wearing and social distancing, explaining that “everyone’s tested” around him using the Abbott device.

His strategy was no match for the virus.

Obviously everyone around him being tested was not enough as it didn’t prevent the current outbreak, it just confirmed the virus was spreading in Trump’s entourage.

“The reliance on a rapid test, with its limitations, unfortunately gave the White House and its staff a false sense of security that they were in control of the virus,” said William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine.

“You cannot rely on that test to create a barrier between you and the virus,” he said, adding that people “have to wear masks, do social distancing and not go to all these rallies.”

While rapid tests can help contain the spread of a highly contagious virus, they were not designed to be used in isolation. A negative result merely captures a snapshot in time and doesn’t guard against infection soon after. And a person may be infectious for days before the amount of virus in their body registers positive on a test.

That’s all well known. We have been told about it often enough here in new Zealand over the last eight months. Human behaviour contrary to safe practices has been our biggest (but relatively small) problem.

Lax behaviour is likely to have contributed to this outbreak.

Trump and his staff regularly do not wear masks. Last month, Trump publicly disagreed with Robert Redfield, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who testified to Congress about the importance of the face coverings.

And at Tuesday’s presidential debate, Trump disparaged his opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden, for his frequent mask use. “I don’t wear masks like him – every time you see him, he’s got a mask,” the president said.

Now, the fallout from the White House’s focus on testing as a precaution could extend far beyond the president and his wife, experts say.

The fallout includes obvious serious health risks for Trump and those who have been associating with him.

Trump’s campaign has also been severely disrupted. If Trump recovers quickly enough and resumes his campaigning that is likely to be much more cautious regarding Covid, and Trump’s attitude to Covid could be (should be) quite different.

While most people survive Covid Trump is in a higher risk group, so his health, his life and the presidency are at risk. His ability to govern the country has already been impacted.

There have been a number of articles along the lines of What happens if a presidential candidate dies

Aside from his risk factors the odds are that Trump will survive.

To date there have been about seven and a half million recorded cases of Covid, and currently 213,841 deaths, which is a 2.8% death rate.

There are currently 2,566,780 active cases in the US, with 14,177 of those classified as serious or critical, which is just 0.55%.

There is a seven day rolling average of 42,646 new cases per day in the US, with a seven day average of 726 deaths, which is 1.7%.

So the Trump and White House cases are comparatively small, and the risk of serious illness or death also small.

But even if Trump recovers quickly from being infected with Covid should be a reality check for him. It should also dent his cavalier attitude to the virus.

There are reports that suddenly White House staff seem to be wearing masks. The reality of Covid will have hit home to many people.

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84 Comments

  1. Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  4th October 2020

      All very murky when should he have been self isolating and how sick is he. My thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family in this worrying time.

      Reply
    • Is that the right link? I can’t see it there.

      I have found this: White House enters cleanup mode over Trump’s COVID-19 timeline

      The state of play: During the press conference, Conley said Trump was “72 hours into the diagnosis now,” even though Trump announced his positive COVID-19 test late Thursday evening. Conley said in the new statement that he meant to say “day three” into the diagnosis.

      Conley’s statement also said he misspoke about about “48 hours” instead of calling referring to it as the second day of Trump’s treatment, although that statement came from another of Trump’s physicians, Dr. Brian Garibaldi.

      https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-doctor-briefing-conley-8f430db2-fcbb-4c37-9313-bf6d89aac3b7.html

      ‘Seventy two hours’ is a lot different to ‘day three’ – it’s an odd sort of mistake to make.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  4th October 2020

        Those twitter links are weird. Yes, that was it. I copied it twice so no idea how it reverted to the wrong one.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  4th October 2020

          Notice his ‘medical’ degree
          DO or Doctor of Osteopathy
          Also his navy rank is much much lower than previous Presidents doctors which is Rear Admiral ….this is much lower as a ‘Commander’

          Reply
  2. Patzcuaro

     /  4th October 2020

    The luck people of Puerto Rico received rolls of paper towels from the President for disaster relief the unlucky Republican elite received the Trump’s virus.

    Reply
  3. Ray

     /  4th October 2020

    Karma eh!

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  4th October 2020

      Schadenfreude.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  4th October 2020

      Maybe…who’s the guy trying to take Trumpy’s job?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  4th October 2020

        Trumps job ends on Jan 20 no matter what ….the voters decide who the next job holder for 4 years will be

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  4th October 2020

          Yeah, sure. And Jacinda’s job ends OcTover 19th.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  4th October 2020

            yes it does. the old parliament has been dissolved.
            However which candidate is ahead in the polls in the US , and which party is ahead in NZ

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              Semantics and technicalities demanded by each countries political processes.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              Not at all. Ardern will have to go to the Governor general after the election to ask to form a new government.
              Collins will go back to church to plead for for forgiveness…or else she ‘give back double’

  4. Patzcuaro

     /  4th October 2020

    The all important optics

    Reply
  5. Corky

     /  4th October 2020

    ”He is also taking an experimental treatment, Regeneron’s REGN-COV2, one of several experimental COVID-19 drugs known as monoclonal antibodies, as well as zinc, Vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and aspirin, Conley has said.

    The supplemental supplements have been mainstream for doctors who have looked outside the square when treating Covid. In fact some are suggest that’s the main line of attack.

    But what’s going on with the TV news? They flashed these protocols over the screen at near subliminal frames.. without reference or expanding on the protocols.

    Weird stuff.

    The great thing about Trump getting Covid is it once again puts the media and the Left under the spotlight. The nastiness and bias on full display. That should make things clear to a thinking swing voter who has to choose between what they consider aren’t good candidates

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  4th October 2020

      Are you suggesting that there those on the right are all angelic?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  4th October 2020

        Are you suggesting you really mean this?

        ”Patzcuaro / 4th October 2020

        All very murky when should he have been self isolating and how sick is he. My thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family in this worrying time.”

        Oh, to answer question.

        No.

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  4th October 2020

          On “thoughts & prayers” I’m merely parroting what the Republican politicians say after every mass shooting. Trump and his inner circle have brought the current situation upon themselves.

          Reply
      • NOEL

         /  4th October 2020

        I wonder if this is available to everyone or only Presidents Corky.
        Usually the FDA doesn’t approve until efficacy and safety is proven.
        https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/recovery-covid-19-phase-3-trial-to-evaluate-regenerons-regn-cov2-investigational-antibody-cocktail-in-the-uk-301129754.html

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  4th October 2020

          Probably not for people who aren’t movers and shakers, Noel. I know the wealthy have access to non-Covid treatments that are decades ahead of what the public receive.

          Reply
          • oldlaker

             /  4th October 2020

            I have read that Trump is getting the drug under a compassionate access scheme. That is standard practice for drugs that are performing well in trials but still need more testing to be approved by the FDA.
            It is not reserved for Presidents or any other influential person

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              As my comment above states… non Covid treatments. You may be under the misapprehension that the wealthy wait for FDA approval. No..they go to private clinics for cutting edge treatments given by pharmaceutical or alternative medicine clinics.

              As to what Trump receives, my comment above was a basically a guess.
              I don’t know.

              Incidentally, stem cell therapy , the use of gold, frequency therapy and a modern take on homeopathy ( energy pills) have made huge strides.

              I myself I’m trying different thing around stem cells.

          • duperez

             /  4th October 2020

            You’re onto it Corky. Trump has access to the best, he’s in good hands. 🤡

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              Your point, please?

            • duperez

               /  4th October 2020

              My point is just to chuck something else in for you to consider. The guy is an idiot and talking about this woman is one of about a million examples from just this year.

              On the other hand some applaud his preparedness to address things, comment on them and do things that normal politicians’ don’t and wouldn’t. Maybe they don’t out of realisation of the impact of the words and actions.

              One of the spectacles is going to be how some desert the ship. The wangling and weaseling has already started here with tones of “I didn’t really support him” and distractions and booting others outside the orbit of the idiot.

            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              OK…let me be quite clear. I support Trump. He’s by far the best of a bad bunch. I don’t give a fugg what you or anyone else thinks. I wish him all the best and hope he buries Biden…and doesn’t get buried himself.

              If he goes down, he goes down. I will go down supporting him. But, like I have said many times…it’s what come after him that will be fun.

          • Duker

             /  4th October 2020

            “know the wealthy have access to non-Covid treatments that are decades ahead of what the public receive.”
            Laugable nonsense
            TRump is being treated by the Military but everyone else , no matter how wealthy has INSURANCE….. insurance companies are notorious for not funding unapproved treatments

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              .” Insurance companies are notorious for not funding unapproved treatments.”

              No shit, Sherlock. They probably won’t cover flights in space; motorsport racing using cars with three wheels…or pre exsisting medical conditions.

            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              Hint..what do the wealthy have plenty of that you don’t? Apart from brains.

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              They still expect ‘insurance ‘ to pay.
              Im always surprised at the very seriously wealthy men who still die from treatable diseases, they just dont bother until its too late….thats only in our area of interest.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pratt_(businessman)

              Some others keep going and going , it may be the monkeys blood
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumner_Redstone

              Any way Corky , dont kid yourself that you could afford ‘any treatment’ if necessary

            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              Keep spinning, you are great entertainment value.

              ”Anyway Corky, don’t kid yourself that you could afford ‘any treatment’ if necessary.”

              Quite true, I only knew about this avenue open to the rich because a wealthy relative went to one such clinic in the Canary Islands 20 years ago…price $850,000 – no results guaranteed. I cannot remember if the treatment was alternative or pharmaceutical based. It really doesn’t matter. Something either works or it doesn’t.

              You may have noticed I said I was playing around with stem cell production. There are supplements that greatly increase the number of stem cells in the body. The problem is without procedures or knowledge you cannot make your bodies stem cells commit to a certain task. They decide what they will do. So I’m thinking outside the square to see if I can change that.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  4th October 2020

          I would presume if a new medication is deemed safe to trial then it is also safe to trial with patient’s informed consent under proper supervision outside the official trial. In fact much of the covid treatment improvements in advance of large scale trial results seem to have been produced by doctors doing just that and sharing their information.

          Reply
          • NOEL

             /  4th October 2020

            Ahh…a phase three trial is to determine the safety of the product.
            A past example was when the Australians followed the Americans and issued an experimental drug during the Vietnam War.
            At that time their phase three trial had not commenced, although there was good efficacy results from earlier small trials that prompted emergency use.
            At the completion of the safety trials the drug was never issued again as the incidence of deleterious effects was triple the US forces rate.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th October 2020

              As I understand it the phase 3 trial is to pick up rare adverse reactions that may nevertheless be significant if rolled out to millions. That’s why a sick individual may well feel the odds are good in their individual case.

          • Corky

             /  4th October 2020

            Intersting:

            ”Right-to-try laws are U.S. state laws and a federal law that were created with the intent of
            allowing terminally ill patients access to experimental therapies (drugs, biologics, devices) that have completed Phase I testing but have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).”

            According to one poster introduced by Trump?

            And this..take note Duker. Quote ( from Alan’s link)

            ”It’s a technology he said his company’s scientists invented and pioneered over the last 20 years.”

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              What are you on about….I dont have any trouble with them giving Trump a combination of everyday medicines and zinc
              Sound like something a Doctor of osteopathy which is what his doctor could recommend…
              The real doctors at Walter Reed might have raised eyebrows …but Trump says he knows more than most doctors about Covid … an uncle was very smart or something

              ““I like this stuff. I really get it,” Trump boasted to reporters during a tour of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, where he met with actual doctors and scientists who are feverishly scrambling to contain and combat the deadly illness. Citing a “great, super-genius uncle” who taught at MIT, Trump professed that it must run in the family genes.

              “People are really surprised I understand this stuff,” he said. “Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability.”

              Donald and self medicating ( via a compliant doctor) …I say GO FOR IT

            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              When the going gets tough, the beaten start spinning.🤔😨😃

            • Duker

               /  4th October 2020

              When hes dead … we will get back to you on that
              But his medicines , I beat you on that one

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th October 2020

              What a load of crap, Duker. From what I’ve seen of his medication details they look highly professional best practice as you would expect for POTUS.

            • Corky

               /  4th October 2020

              Exactly.

  6. duperez

     /  4th October 2020

    The clusterfuck, as called, is a triumph of arrogance and ignorance over common sense and basic science.

    In some ways it is a most glorious exhibition of the might of egos.

    Even as it plays out it repeats that. While some of the people involved are in prominent decision making jobs, they are just people. They are just numbers on a page like the millions who got the virus or the hundreds of thousands who died from it. The others were mere fodder then, flotsam and jetsam in a game of politics.

    Now it’s serious?

    Reply
  7. Duker

     /  4th October 2020

    Twitter is cracking down on false stories , nope its those just saying they ‘hope’ Trump dies.
    Funny that hes given a ‘new bubble’ of protection inside Twitter yet he was largely free to spout his nonsense ( until recently some restrictions on his tweets)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8801237/Twitter-vows-remove-messages-rooting-President-Trump-die.html

    Reply
    • Nonsense and death-wishes are different.

      C19 will probably be the death of his presidency anyway. A far worse scenario for Trump, one imagines.

      Reply
  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  4th October 2020

    The real clusterfuck will be if Trump recovers quickly. That will really confuse the Left.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  4th October 2020

      Holding onto hope are you AW ? Bless…on the other hand he could die ( or be on life support)
      Sure plenty of people have little symptons and recover fully very quickly…many others dont have the energy they once had and of course the covid tests are quite sensitive so the virus disappearing in the body could take longer.
      Its called karma

      Reply
    • Kimbo

       /  4th October 2020

      Yes. A bit like, “I insist, Mrs Lincoln. An evening at Ford’s theatre is just what I need”. 😳😂

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  4th October 2020

        Real karma
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Stalin

        I watched the movie on streaming , they juggle up the facts a bit, but any movies ‘based on’ does that.
        In the current situation I wonder if no one dared tell Trump he had the virus from his so called daily testing and he went off to Minnesota while they dithered on ‘checking’

        The mad monkeys at kiwiblog on first hearing the news …it was a hoax and when that wouldnt wash , it became a democratic plot.

        Reply
  9. Duker

     /  4th October 2020

    Summary of timeline of What happened in White House
    https://slate.com/technology/2020/10/trump-covid-timeline-questions.html?via=rss

    “At a press conference Saturday, Sean Conley says that Trump is 72 hours into a diagnosis—which, counting back from Saturday, would mean the diagnosis happened on Wednesday. ”
    Which is before the last campaign trip happened
    The White House soon said Conley flubbed his words and that he meant to say that he was on the third day of diagnosis. Conley confirmed the flub in a memo. It’s certainly possible that he made a mistake here

    “Saturday press conference comments from Brian Garibaldi, a pulmonary critical care physician at Walter Reed, this is also when Trump receives a dose of Regeneron’s monoclonal antibody cocktail.* We have the same question mark here that we do with the diagnosis timeline: On Saturday, Garibaldi said that Trump received the treatment 48 hours ago, though the White House, and Conley corrected this, claiming that his “48 hours” was just marking that it was the second day of the president having COVID. A weird mistake for a second doctor to make!”

    And the rush to Hospital- this is for Corky to blow steam over …again

    “The choice to send him then was made in part “from a public relations perspective,” as they wanted to send him “when he was still able to walk to Marine One on his own,” the Washington Post reports,”
    maybe later in the day and he wouldnt be able to walk on his own.

    “At some point on Friday, Trump’s condition becomes “very concerning,” according to comments made to pool reporters by White House chief of staff Mark Meadows on Saturday. According to a report from the Associated Press, citing a person familiar with the president’s condition, Trump also received supplemental oxygen while he was at the White House on Friday. ….probably related to the brief walk to the helicopter. he was driven in a car at the other end of the journey to hospital door ( the landing spot is right by entrance from maps)

    Reply
  10. duperez

     /  4th October 2020

    Get it straight. Michael Woodhouse found a homeless man at an isolation centre so apparently we were all in imminent danger.

    Our world was going to end. Government members and health officials should have been sacked. “Guts for garters” was to be the theme. It was a disaster. Apparently.

    Over in the States the behaviour in some circles was different and people chose their ways to act and interact,

    We have opinions about how a ‘superspreader event’ unfolds. Can there be quibbling about chucking around the term ‘idiots’? Or should we keep going with the ‘genius’ mantra? Evidence is there about cognitive functioning. The geniuses who continually profess the genius of the President? The same whose hysteria was hardly able to be contained about Woodhouse’ man? Cognitive functioning.

    The buck stops at the top. On the road up maybe it’ll hit the mechanics like McEnany.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  4th October 2020

      Great Stuff.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  4th October 2020

        This was an earlier piece by that former California attorney Rob Crisell who now teaches Shakespeare at a local high school ( I wonder if being a commercial lawyer didnt pay enough…that must be it)

        “Why Biden Will Withdraw From the Debates
        It’s the only way for Joe’s handlers to save him from himself.”
        https://spectator.org/biden-debates-trump/

        he has to be the biggest […..] spreader around…Notice the word WILL

        last laugh has to be Trump is incapacitated, but of course the Trump lovers allways pivot a ‘Trump issue’ to being about Biden or the democrats.

        Reply
  11. Corky

     /  4th October 2020

    I’m wondering if Trump in hospital is good news for the moderation problems for the next debate?

    Skype the debate with Trumpy in hospital. That way the mike can be turned off. ?!.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  4th October 2020

      hes too sick even for that….( only 1 tweet and thats not in his ‘usual style) we now know he probably cant walk across the stage…. SAD

      Reply
  12. Duker

     /  4th October 2020

    Some more people are looking into the timeline of Trumps ‘condition’
    “At the earlier press briefing on Sunday (AEST) outside the Maryland hospital where Trump is being treated, White House physician Sean Conley said “we’re 72 hours into [Trump’s] diagnosis”.
    Given Conley was speaking at 11.30 am local time, this implied that Trump was diagnosed on Wednesday morning local time – the day after the presidential debate in Cleveland Ohio.
    Trump did not reveal his diagnosis to the public until 1am Friday local time, 36 hours before Conley briefed the media outside Walter Reed Medical Centre.”

    Diagnosis might have come later than a ‘positive test result’

    and later “”He is in exceptionally good spirits and as we were completing multidisciplinary rounds this morning, he said, ‘I feel like I could walk out of here today’,
    but the true story came minutes later
    “Minutes later the White House pool – a group of reporters assigned to cover the White House – released a statement from an unnamed White House official saying: “The President’s vitals over [the] last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care. We are still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”
    hehehehe…’White House chief-of-staff Mark Meadows was seen around the same time speaking to reporters in an off-the-record discussion.”
    https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/very-concerning-white-house-issues-contradictory-confusing-updates-on-trump-s-health-20201004-p561ru.html

    Reply
  13. Patzcuaro

     /  4th October 2020

    It would be cheaper if people at the White House wore face masks rather than got continually tested. Personal responsibility the catch cry of the right except when it comes to a face masks. Apparently Trump’s retinue arrived wearing masks at the first Presidential debate then once seated took them off against the rules for the debate, again no personal responsibility.

    Reply
  14. Alan Wilkinson

     /  4th October 2020

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  4th October 2020

      America should be ashamed of its President

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  5th October 2020

        He hasn’t started enough wars, killed enough people and kept enough harmful regulations?

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  5th October 2020

          I’m more than happy for less wars but foreign policy wise Trump has cosied up to dictatorial regimes around the world while ignoring the traditional allies of the West, probably because he himself has dictatorial tendencies which can be seen in his undermining of the electoral process.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  5th October 2020

            The traditional allies who were happy for the US to fund their security and everything else while being free to complain about everything?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  5th October 2020

              ‘America has no permanent friends or enemies…only interests’

              Henry Kissinger.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  5th October 2020

              I’ve no problems with the allies paying their fair share, Europe should primarily be defended by Europeans.
              Are you happy with Trump’s undermining of the electoral process?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  5th October 2020

              Undermined how? Objecting to the Democrats harvesting mail in votes?

        • Duker

           /  5th October 2020

          “hasn’t started enough wars”

          Do try to keep up, he has committed US troops on the ground in Syria – to look after US oil apparently.
          Lots more military actions are done on the sly, there was those forces killed in Niger or Mali
          Mali ?

          Afghanistan
          “When Mr. Trump took office, that number was hovering around 10,000. A new strategy, announced in August 2017, added thousands more.
          “Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf nations: 45,000 to 65,000”
          “Elsewhere: More than 2,000
          The Pentagon has deployed troops to other locations around the world. There are about 250 troops, mostly Special Forces, in the Philippines in part to help with counterterrorism operations.

          That current hotspot Azerbaijan , yep thats long time bases which predate Trump, but you can bet its recently increased – on the sly as they do with special forces , they are next door to Iran too

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  5th October 2020

            Stop whimpering and face the facts, Duker. Trump just isn’t a proper US Presidential warmonger like Bush and Obama.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  5th October 2020

              Just the same …havent you used up your whataboutism quota for the day, and its not even lunchtime.
              hes really angling for that ‘Noble’ prize isnt he ….

  15. Alan Wilkinson

     /  4th October 2020

    The famotidine drug they have him on looks interesting:
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88119

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  4th October 2020

      I’ll harzard a guess how it MAY work. It increases the bodies ph which should nornally be around 7-7.2. Most people according to my saliva strips are running as low as 5.8. Too acidic.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  5th October 2020

        ‘ Most people according to my saliva strips are running as low as 5.8. Too acidic.’

        Very scientific!!

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  5th October 2020

          Science does not accept PH readings have any affect on the body. They maintain the body keeps the PH level at a constant level.

          Other scientists and people disagree.

          I’m prepared to talk about this. Scurry away, become a Google expert, then get back to me.

          Or, buy some saliva strips and check yourself. The next time you get the flu take a level teaspoon of baking soda in warm water twice a day…and see what happens. You may be surprised. Of course that’s not very scientific, so if you become well, quicker than usual, you will just have to chalk it up to the placebo effect.

          Reply

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