New Zealand firearm laws to be changed

The Christchurch mass killings have prompted promises from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern that our gun laws will change. yesterday in a statement on the killings:

I’m advised that there were five guns used by the primary perpetrator. There were two semi-automatic weapons, and two shotguns. The offender was in possession of a gun licence.

I’m advised that this was acquired of November 2017.

A lever action firearm was also found.

While work is being done as to the chain of events that led to both the holding of this gun licence, and the possession of these weapons, I can tell you one thing right now. Our gun laws will change.

There have been attempts to change our laws in 2005, 2012 and after an inquiry in 2017.

Now is the time for change.

It is ridiculous that military style semi-automatic weapons are readily available in New Zealand. On a gun selling site right now:

Some of those weapons are legitimate hunting and sporting and pest control firearms.

Some are obviously military style and serve no practical or useful purpose.

The Christchurch killer obtained a standard ‘A Categhory’ New Zealand firearm license. This is quite an involved task – I renewed my own last year, and this involved an in depth interview of myself, and separately of my partner, and a separate phone interview with a friend. It takes more to obtain your first license. You have to first pass a firearms test (I did that at the local police station), and recent changes require young people to receive firearm training.

I note that if you filter the above selection of firearms by ‘Cat A’ the military style weapons drop off the list. Have they already taken voluntary action to make them harder to obtain?

Newsroom –  Ardern: Shooter had five guns legally

The gunman at the centre of the Christchurch terror attack used weapons that appear to have been modified, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said.

The ability to modify firearms has long been a weak point in New Zealand’s firearm laws, allowing licence-holders to legally hold weapons akin to those used in the military on relatively low-low-level gun licenses.

Ardern promised this morning that gun laws would change in New Zealand, with a ban on semi-automatic weapons mooted. This afternoon she also singled out the modification of weapons.

“We need to look at the modification of guns that can lead them to become essentially the kind of weapons that were used in this terrorist attack,” she said.

From what I have heard modifications involved or included the addition of high capacity magazines. Apparently these are not difficult to obtain.

She said there were a “raft” of issues she would look at.

Police Commissioner Mike Bush said Tarrant would not have been able to purchase the gun, in the form it was used, with his Category A licence, but he did not give further information on how the weapons had been acquired, or the exact process followed by police when Tarrant was issued a gun licence in 2017. Bush said these details were still under investigation.

The Christchurch killer is reported to have purchased five firearms in December 2018. This should have raised red flags. It should be simple notify of purchases to a central database, and to flag multiple purposes in a short time, especially where military style weapons are involved.

Stuff:  Prime Minister says NZ gun laws will change in wake of Christchurch terror attack

Asked if banning semi-automatic weapons was an option, Ardern said that was “certainly one of the issues” that would be looked at. She had not fully considered whether a buyback scheme, similar to Australia’s after a mass shooting there in the late 1990s, would be appropriate.

A semi-automatic weapon allows shooters to discharge weapons at a much faster rate as they automatically reload the chamber after every shot is fired.

While semi-automatic weapons generally require an E-licence in New Zealand to obtain, there are some loopholes to this law.

There’s a number of rifles in that list under Semi Auto and Cat-A that look suspect. Like this one:

Barrett REC7 (edited).png

A selective-fire assault rifle and semi-automatic rifle
Aavailable in either 5.56×45mm NATO or 6.8mm Remington SPC

RNZ:

Meanwhile, a loophole in the law may have allowed Tarrant to get hold of the semi-automatic weapons that did so much damage in Christchurch.

Mr Bush said he only had a Category A firearms licence which would have prevented him from legally owning semi-automatic weapons.

But it may still have been possible for him to have bought his firearms legally and then to have altered changed them into semi-automatic, he said.

“A Category A firearms holder can purchase the firearms without the magazines or the things that will enable them to be in the state that they were. I was very happy to hear the prime minister’s comments this morning that there will be a change in the gun laws.”

I’m confused about this. I purchased a semi-automatic on a Cat A license about ten years ago.

The gun site shown above lists 37 firearms filters by Cat A and Semi Auto (I don’t know if this has changed over the last couple of days). These all appear to be either .22 or shotguns – these are less dangerous than high calibre rifles but can still be lethal.

I have used the .22 semi auto for pest control, possums and rabbits. Semi auto is of little use for rabbits but quite useful for possums. If the laws are changed I may have to hand it in.

What the Government will have to do is balance the legitimate use of firearms against public safety due to the rare use of legally obtained firearms for mass murder.

Ardern statement – Saturday morning

More from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern (edited) on numbers of deaths, arrests and charges, gun control, ongoing investigations, and support for those affected:


Statement from Jacinda Ardern on Christchurch mass shooting – 9am 16 March

A total now of 49 people have been killed – work is under way to confirm their identities as quickly as possible.

41 people died at Deans Avenue Mosque, 7 at the Linwood Avenue Mosque – and 1 person has since died in hospital.

Over 40 people are being treated for injuries at Christchurch hospital – they have all been identified and those names have been shared with members of the community.

Two of those are in critical condition and this includes a 5-year-old child who has been transported today to Starship Hospital in Auckland.

Three people have been arrested in relation to this event.

One Australian citizen will appear in court today charged with murder.

This individual has travelled around the world with sporadic periods of time spent in New Zealand. They were not a resident of Christchurch. In fact they were currently based in Dunedin.

Enquires are ongoing to establish whether the other two were directly involved with this incident.

The fourth person who was arrested yesterday was a member of the public who was in possession of a firearm, but with the intention of assisting police. They have since been released.

None of those apprehended had a criminal history either here, or in Australia. As I said last night, they were not on any watch lists either here, or in Australia.

I want to be very clear that our intelligence community and police are focused on extremism of every kind.

Given global indicators around far right extremism, our intelligence community has been stepping up their investigations in this area.

The individual charged with murder had not come to the attention of the intelligence community nor the police for extremism.

I have asked our agencies this morning to work swiftly on assessing whether there was any activity on social media or otherwise that should have triggered a response. That work is already under way.

“I want to speak specifically about the firearms used in this terrorist act.”

I’m advised that there were five guns used by the primary perpetrator. There were two semi-automatic weapons, and two shotguns. The offender was in possession of a gun licence.

I’m advised that this was acquired of November 2017.

A lever action firearm was also found.

While work is being done as to the chain of events that led to both the holding of this gun licence, and the possession of these weapons, I can tell you one thing right now. Our gun laws will change.

There have been attempts to change our laws in 2005, 2012 and after an inquiry in 2017.

Now is the time for change.

Too late for change in this case, and it will take time to work out what sort of changes will be made, but change looks inevitable.

There are obviously questions being asked of how this person was able to enter the country and undertake this act of terror.

I have instructed ODESC to report to Cabinet on Monday on this sequence of events with a view to strengthening our systems on a range of fronts including but not limited to, firearms, border controls, enhanced information sharing with Australia and any practical reinforcement of our watch list processes.

“I want to come now to what people can expect over the course of the day and beyond.”

The safety of New Zealanders is our highest priority.

New Zealand Police remain on high alert.

Christchurch residents are strongly urged to stay home if possible and stay safe. Please monitor the Police website and social media for further information.

If you see something suspicious then call 111 immediately.

A number of events are being held across the country today and there will be an increased Police presence.

Police have additional patrols out on the streets of Christchurch to reassure the community.

They have flown in 45 additional police staff to Christchurch with a further 80 staff arriving today.

The additional police staffing includes public safety teams, detectives, tactical specialists and intelligence support.

Staff from other DHBs have offered support as required.

There will be additional support provided in Christchurch for mental health and psychosocial needs.

 

Police are aware of distressing material relating to this event being online and are reminding people it is an offence to distribute objectionable material.

To recap:

Police immediately secured the areas involved and ensured that people were kept safe, including schools and offices being locked down.

Police made arrests swiftly and a man will appear in court this morning.

Defence specialists quickly moved to assist police to make the improvised explosive devices safe.

I want to make special mention of those who are involved in parts of the operation involving disarming devices and undertaking the arrests themselves.

Many of you may have seen the footage of the arrest and I can only describe it as an act of bravery on behalf of all New Zealanders and an act that showed very little regard for their own personal safety.

I’m sure everyone in New Zealand wants to acknowledge the police and particularly the officer who made that arrest yesterday.

I also want to acknowledge ambulance staff who many will have seen acting swiftly under horrific conditions and all medical staff who continue to work with those who are injured.

NZ Defence Force at Burnham Camp yesterday were put on standby to assist police in Christchurch.

Mosques around the country were provided with advice from police to help keep them secure and advised to remain closed. This advice continues as does the police presence at mosques around the country.

The national threat level was raised to high, which triggers a number of actions to help keep people safe, such as increased aviation and border security.

A number of specialist family liaison staff were deployed.

Close liaison has been established with the Muslim community and other key people in Christchurch.

Police and the wider government will be working with leaders and members of the Islamic Community to provide assistance, reassurance and support.

MFAT are acting as a liaison point for foreign governments – consular representation for any foreign nations involved has been provided. At this stage I understand those involved include Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia.

MFAT staff are dealing with offers of assistance, and are receiving a significant number of condolence messages.

Deputy Commissioner Maori and Ethnic Services Wally Haumaha has travelled to Christchurch, alongside 15 additional ethnic liaison officers to support the community.

These specialists will work alongside local staff to support the families involved.

They are assisting to repatriate them with their loved ones in a way that is consistent with Muslim beliefs, while taking into account these particular circumstances and obligations to the coroner.

“I want to finish by saying…”

…that while the nation grapples with a form of grief and anger that we have not experienced before, we are seeking answers.

After this media conference I will board a defence force plane and travel to Christchurch. I will have other political leaders with me including the Leader of the Opposition.

As is the entire nation, we are all unified in grieving together.


If anyone needs to speak to someone or if they are feeling distressed I encourage you to call or text 1737. There are extra staff available. That number is available to everyone.”

An 0800 number established to register missing persons – 0800 115019 – and a website, Restoring Family Links (RFL).

 

More on US school shootings

Following yesterday’s post: Florida school shooting

(PartisanZ):

Open letter from shooting victim’s aunt: ‘We don’t want your prayers” – NZHerald …

Powerful stuff … “My friends and fellow citizens, your guns are not protecting you. Your guns are killing our kids … Why is your hunting hobby more important than my niece’s life? Don’t you see that your “second amendment” rights have been twisted and distorted beyond any rational interpretation? Why should my niece have been sacrificed at the altar of your “freedoms?”

Why don’t you trust our police to protect us from crime? Don’t you realise that mental illness has been and always will be a part of the human condition and that weapons of war should not be available to those among us who dream of mayhem and death? Don’t you see the blood on all of our hands?” – Abbie Youkilis MD

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11996270

Gezza: (Relevant to a comment I posted yesterday about screwed up competitive US mass shooters who want to beat someone else’s record.)

16 February 2018 – Washington State
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/101526089/wouldbe-gunmans-plan-to-carry-out-a-school-shooting-foiled-by-his-grandmother

“A US student has been arrested after his grandmother reported his plans to attack a high school to police. The decision about where to shoot and kill was based on the flip of a coin.

During a search at the house, authorities said that investigators seized a rifle that had been hidden in a guitar case, as well as military-style inert grenades. “This was a student that nobody would have suspected,” Mukilteo School District spokesperson Andrew Muntz told Fox affiliate KCPQ following the news.

O’Connor is being held on charges of attempted murder in the first degree, robbery and assault on an officer, according to online booking records.

Police said in a statement on Wednesday (Thursday NZT) that dispatchers received a call early Tuesday morning (Wednesday NZT) from a grandmother who said she believed her teenage grandson had plans to launch an attack on his school. She told police she had read about the plans in his journal.

In his writings, according to the probable cause documents, O’Connor said he was preparing for a school shooting, boasting, “My aim has gotten much more accurate.”
“I’ve been thinking a lot,” he added, according to the court records. “I need to make this shooting/bombing at Kamiak infamous. I need to get the biggest fatality number I possibly can. I need to make this count.

“I’ve been reviewing many mass shootings/bombings [and attempted bombings] I’m learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes, so I don’t make the same ones.”

The journal then mentions the coin flip between Kamiak High School in Mukilteo, Washington, and nearby ACES Alternative High School, according to the court records.

Officers met with O’Connor’s grandmother and were “alarmed at the statements and detailed plans to shoot students and use homemade explosive devices,” according to the statement from police.

Officers alerted administrators at ACES Alternative High School on Tuesday and had O’Connor pulled from class, according to the court records. The records state that officers found marijuana and a knife in his possession and took him into custody.

The incident unfolded just miles from Marysville, Washington where another teenager opened fire in 2014 at Marysville Pilchuck High School. Jaylen Fryberg lured students around a lunch table and then gunned them down, killing four before killing himself, police said.”

The politician problem (not just Trump) in Don’t look to Trump for leadership after the Florida school shooting

This is no time to talk politics, we’re told by gun-loving conservatives.

This is a time for prayers, we’re told by Donald Trump.

“There really are no words,” we’re told by the local sheriff.

So it’s OK, everyone. We can get back to the latest blather about tax cuts for corporations or billions for a border wall. Those are the things that politics, and presidents, and words, can handle.

But if we can’t talk about saving the lives of our children, if our politics can’t keep our schools safe, if we can’t talk about the mass murder of innocence, then what on earth are we talking about? What’s the point of any politician if they can’t do this one simple thing: protect our youngest citizens?

If this was the eighth terrorist attack of 2018, don’t you think every member of Congress – not just Democrats – would bleat on about taking urgent action?

If Isis-inspired gunmen had just mown down 17 high school students in their classrooms, how long would it take before our president spoke in front of the nation’s TV cameras?

If an ISIS inspired gunman (it’s almost always men) had just mown down one child at school it would have got more urgent attention. But red-white-blue on red-white-blue is far more politically awkward when one of the biggest, most generous (financially) lobby groups is the National Riflemens’ Association.

Instead, we’ll have to settle for a tweet. Because when we need leadership the most, there’s no point in raising your hopes with the man who watches Fox News all day inside the White House.

It’s so heartwarming to hear this from the man who promised to end “this American carnage” in his inaugural address. Of course, at the time he was talking about gang murders, just as he did in his State of the Union address last month.

He must have forgotten to mention school shootings with assault weapons, like the AR-15 used at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school in Parkland, Florida. It was the same assault weapon used at the Sutherland Springs church in Texas in November. It was the same assault weapon used in the Las Vegas massacre the month before that.

It’s as if no politician could talk about protecting airplane cockpits after 9/11 because all we could was pray and send our condolences.

There have been many attempts to tackle assault weapons like the AR-15. When Senator Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat, tried to do that in 2013, one month after the Sandy Hook school massacre, there were 60 no votes that killed the effort, including those of 15 Democrats.

Among those no votes was one Marco Rubio, the Florida senator, who told Fox News on Wednesday that now wasn’t the time to talk about gun control. “I think you can always have that debate,” he said. “But if you’re gonna have that debate about this particular incident you should know the facts of that incident before you run out and prescribe some law that you claim could have prevented it.”

Senator Rubio: save yourself the trouble. You don’t need to know the facts because the last time you heard the facts, you voted against regulating the very gun that massacred all those schoolchildren at Sandy Hook. It’s so funny how you need to be 100% sure about the impact of gun control laws when you are prepared to throw any amount of legislation and spending at the far less deadly terrorist threat to the United States.

Enough is enough is enough. If you care about our children, do something to protect them. If you want a politician who talks about our greatest threats, vote for someone who isn’t terrified of the National Rifle Association.

And if you want to make America great again, make our schools safe again.

A focus on mental health may be appropriate, if it includes the mental state of those politicians who refuse to consider that the US gun laws are hopeless and contribute significantly to one of the most dangerous problems in the US.

 

US gun control debate

The debate over gun control continues in the wake of the Las Vegas massacre, with some very American arguments from both sides.

Playing a typically US religious card, but the sentiment is fair enough. I’m sure some of the families and friends of victims would prefer to see something done about laws and attitudes that allow one person to own over 40 firearms.

This is a common argument, but it seems stupid to me. It has long been claimed but never needed in the US, and it’s very debatable whether the proliferation of firearms would do anything to limit the impact of a tyrannical government, if one ever eventuates.

NPR: Guns In America, By The Numbers

Gun sales have increased in recent years. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, U.S. gun-makers produced nearly 11 million guns in 2013, the year after the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre. That’s twice as many as they made in 2010.

According to the Congressional Research Service, there are roughly twice as many guns per capita in the United States as there were in 1968: more than 300 million guns in all.

A major problem with the ‘government tyranny’ argument is that if civil war broke out in the US it is likely that many of those 300 million weapons would be used in support of the tyranny.

The biggest threat to the US, aside from nuclear attack, is themselves.

Las Vegas, gun control and God

The mass shooting in Las Vegas has re-ignited gun control debate in the US (note that technically ‘gun’ is not an apt description), but as has happened many times before , it is likely to change little if anything.

Defenders of the ownership of firearms has already begun – see the vacuous Tammy Bruce: Why gun control won’t end mass murder

Statistics are being re-published, like How US gun culture compares with the world in 5 charts

  1. Americans own nearly half (48%) of the estimated 650m civilian owned guns worldwide.
  2. Americans own more guns per capita than residents of any other country
  3. The US makes up less than 5% of the world’s population, but holds 31% of global mass shooters.
  4. Gun homicide rates are 25.2 times higher in the US than in other high income countries.
    GunDeathRates
  5. Worldwide, the countries with the highest gun-homicide rates are in Central and South America.

More from Vox:  Gun violence in America, explained in 17 maps and charts

America is an exceptional country when it comes to guns. It’s one of the few countries in which the right to bear arms is constitutionally protected. But America’s relationship with guns is unique in another crucial way: Among developed nations, the US is far and away the most violent — in large part due to the easy access many Americans have to firearms.

  1. America has six times as many firearm homicides as Canada, and nearly 16 times as many as Germany

  2. America has 4.4 percent of the world’s population, but almost half of the civilian-owned guns around the world

  3. There have been more than 1,500 mass shootings since Sandy Hook

  4. On average, there is more than one mass shooting for each day in America

  5. States with more guns have more gun deaths

  6. It’s not just the US: Developed countries with more guns also have more gun deaths

  7. States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths

  8. Still, gun homicides (like all homicides) have declined over the past couple decades

  9. Most gun deaths are suicides

  10. The states with the most guns report the most suicides

  11. Guns allow people to kill themselves much more easily

  12. Programs that limit access to guns have decreased suicides

  13. Since the shooting of Michael Brown, police have killed at least 2,900 people

  14.  In states with more guns, more police officers are also killed on duty

  15. Support for gun ownership has sharply increased since the early ’90s

The NRA is a very strong lobby group that donates a lot of funds to politicians. The chances of significant controls on the ownership and use of firearms in the US seems slim, unless Donald Trump decides to do something worthwhile about it.

One claim that keeps coming up is that the more good people who have guns, the greater the chance of stopping bad people with guns from killing.

It took armed police about 70 minutes to locate and stop the Las Vegas killer.

Things are unlikely to change much if at all.

BBC: Las Vegas shooting: Five reasons US gun control won’t happen

The NRA

The National Rifle Association is one of the most influential interest groups in US politics – not just because of the money it spends on lobbying politicians, but also because of the engagement of its 5 million members.

In 2016 the NRA spent $4m on lobbying and direct contributions to politicians as well as more than $50m on political advocacy, including an estimated $30m to help elect Donald Trump president.

Gerrymandering

Most recent attempts to pass new federal laws regulating firearms are over before they ever really begin, stymied in the US House of Representatives, which has been in Republican hands since 2011.

Due to the way the lines of House congressional districts are drawn, many by Republican-controlled state legislatures, there are more “safe” seats for Republicans than there are for Democrats.

In these congressional districts, the politicians are more responsive to their primary voters, who tend to be motivated by hot-button issues like gun rights. The price for crossing these voters is much higher than alienating those who, while perhaps more in favour of gun control, do not vote in Republican primaries.

The filibuster

If a gun-control bill were to make it out of the House of Representatives, it would still face a challenge in the Senate, where the rural-urban divide plays itself out on the state level, as well. States dominated by big-city voters, such as New York, Massachusetts or California, are outnumbered by rural and Southern states with pro-gun sentiments.

The rules of the Senate can also thwart efforts to enact more stringent firearm regulation, thanks to the “filibuster” – a procedural hurdle that means most major pieces of legislation need the backing of 60 out of 100 senators to pass, rather than a simple 51-vote majority.

The courts

With Congress more interested in rolling back existing firearm regulations than implementing new ones, left-leaning US states have taken a greater role in implementing gun-control measures.

After the 2012 school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, 21 states passed new gun laws, including imposing assault weapons bans in Connecticut, Maryland and New York.

Some of the laws have run up against another barrier, however – the US judicial system. In recent years the Supreme Court has twice ruled that the right to own personal weapons such as handguns is enshrined in the constitution.

Could it change? Trump-appointed Justice Neil Gorsuch has made it clear he views Second Amendment rights broadly. The president is filling out the ranks of the lower courts with pro-gun-rights judges. If anything, the judiciary is moving to the right on this issue.

The enthusiasm gap

Perhaps the single biggest obstacle to new gun-control laws at the national level is that opponents tend to hold fiercely to their beliefs, while support for new regulation tends to ebb and flow around each new instance of violence.

The NRA’s strategy, and that of pro-gun politicians, is to wait out the storm – to delay legislative efforts until attention turns elsewhere and the outcry fades.

Pro-gun politicians offer their thoughts and prayers, observe moments of silence and order flags flown half-staff. Then, in the quiet, legislative efforts are deferred and ultimately derailed.

God is probably nearly as influential as the NRA in the US.

Fox News: Lee Brice performed at Las Vegas shooting venue: ‘I believe God has a plan’

“I have faith that God has a plan and that he will prevail. That this kind of a terrorism, which I believe that it is. What kind of terrorism it is, I don’t care. It’s just a fact that somebody is trying to make a point to scare people, country music fans, innocent people to stop doing what they want to do.”

Faithwire:  Trump’s ‘God’-Filled Reaction to Las Vegas Shooting: ‘We Are Searching for…Some Kind of Light in the Darkness’

President Donald Trump delivered a statement before the nation on Monday, expressing horror over the Las Vegas shooting on Sunday that claimed more than 50 lives and left hundreds injured.

The commander-in-chief prayed for healing for the victims, their families and the nation at large. He also expressed sadness, shock and grief over the tragic events, saying that the shooter — whom police identified as Stephen Paddock, a 64-year-old male from Mequite, Nevada — “brutally murdered more than 50 people and wounded hundreds more.”

In addition to praising first responders for their quick response — one that he said was “miraculous” in nature — Trump repeatedly invoked God and faith throughout the short address.

“We cannot fathom their pain, we cannot imagine their loss. To the families of the victims, we are praying for you and we …  ask God to help see you through this very dark period. Scripture teaches us the Lord is close to the broken-hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.”

“In times such of these, I know we are searching for some kind of meaning in the chaos, some kind of light in the darkness. The answers don’t come easy.”

The French attacks and gun toting Slaterites

In the wake of the terrorist attacks in Paris Cameron Slater suggests that an armed population would be the best way to prevent terrorism.

HOW GUN CONTROL HELPED THE FRENCH AVOID A MASSACRE…OH WAIT

We hear often, mainly from the left-wing how gun control will stop massacres. That removing guns from society will prevent gun crime.

I don’t hear this. I think Slater made that up.

Fewer guns in society can reduce gun crime and shooting accidents, but that’s unrelated to terrorist massacres.

It is all rubbish of course and we saw evidence of that the other day from Paris.

Criminals ignore laws, and laws create business opportunities for those criminals. Terrorists don’t care about gun control laws, for them it just makes killing large amounts of people easier if they are disarmed by their own governments.

The French government disarmed their population and now they wonder why they are targets.

They are targets because the French armed forces are active in Syria fighting against ISIS. Guns beget armed responses.

We are in a war with Islam. They want to destroy our civilisation and replace it with theirs. We need to fight, hard.

So Europe should arm their populations to prevent terrorist attacks? Slater seems to want to allow, even encourage the people to arm themselves and wipe out ‘Islam’.

I shudder to think what it would be like if people like him were allowed to roam the streets of New Zealand, armed to the teeth,  fighting hard in our defence.

Big talk from Slater. Big stupidity. And not just from him, the Slater tag team are out in force this morning. Spanish Bride posted in Face of the Day:

Back in May today’s face of the day Dame Susan ‘Dhimmi’  Devoy was backing Winston Peter’s call to increase our refugee quota.

Do you know what else we lag behind the rest of the world in Susan? Terrorism.There is a clear correlation between increased Muslim immigration and terrorism in a western country. It doesn’t matter how they got there, what matters is the dangerous ideology and belief system that they bring with them.

I suggest two words of the day for Whale OIl, correlation and causation.

After every single Muslim terrorist attack they have gone out of their way to inform us that it was linked to Islam.They have told us that the organisation behind the attacks is Islamic yet despite this Ms Devoy the other day made a statement as ludicrous as stating that the sky is green.

Ms Devoy might not like the truth but that does not give her the right to tell such bald-faced lies. Obviously she does not want the innocent Muslim community to suffer for what the guilty Muslim community have done but that is no excuse for ignoring the obvious. It is like saying that male on female rape has nothing to do with men. Yes, not all men rape but obviously some do. The terrorists are Muslim and the ideology that they follow is Islam. It may be an unpalatable truth and the Muslim community may be keen to distance themselves from it, much like I would want to distance myself from a family member that killed someone, but that does not change the facts.

That’s a garbled message but the Slaters seem to want to wipe out Islam because of extremist Muslim terrorists. Should women of the world be allowed to arm themselves to wipe out men to eliminate rape?

Members of the Muslim community, the Muslim ‘family’ in France did massacre French civilians and they did do it in the name of Allah. Stop sugar-coating the unpleasant truth Susan. You are fooling nobody.

Blaming “the Muslim ‘family’ in France” for the Paris massacres.

Somehow though I suspect that the real problem is inside your department. Are you leading the department Susan or is the department leading you? Are they feeding you the politically correct lines? Are they telling you what to say? I bet they justify it with the rationale that the lie will protect the local Muslim community. That rationale is the same one currently being used by Angela Merkel to justify suppressing the truth about refugee violence and rape against other refugees and the local German community. Do you really want to follow in her footsteps? I assure you that history will not remember Ms Merkel with kindness.

It’s hard to know what she’s actually trying to say there. This is what Devoy said that Spanish Bride is speaking so streongly against:

New Zealand’s Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy said terrorism is not religious based and urged Kiwis to stand with the Muslim community.

“Hate starts small but so, too, does hope,” Dame Susan said.

“Terrorism has no religion and neither does humanity: we urge Kiwis to stand together in humanity.”

The concepts of religion and terrorism seemed to be diametrically opposed to me. Some terrorists use religion as an excuse to kill, but religion isn’t the cause. Misuse of religion is one of a number of factors.

Slater’s armed with keyboards are relatively harmless. let’s leave it at that. I think gun toting Slateritess roaming the streets are unlikely to make them safer.

A gun control solution for USA?

Each mass shooting in the US raises the issue of gun control but nothing seems to change. Would this work?

I’m gonna start a Muslims In the NRA movement – get chapters open in every state. Two in Michigan. That’ll get gun control going.

Gun control, conspiracies and god

At Kiwiblog a post on Obama’s gun crackdown meandered into discussions on conspiracies, beginning with…

cha
January 17th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

Looned.

He warned that many Patriots and Christians arrested and secured into these prisoner boxcars under martial law will never even make it to the death camps..that many will be tortured and sacrificed once restrained in these prisoner boxcars.

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/fema-ordered-102-000-boxcars-with-shackles

Amongst the following discussion SPC made a couple of pertinent comments:

No one doubts that there are interests that would like to express themselves through influence on and through the US government. But there is no singular “they”, more like rival “they’s”.

And yes the idea that “they” can have a President removed, and get away with it, is disturbing. Whether “they” have, has not been answered.

The highlights a problem with conspiracy theorists, who seemed to get fixated on a conspiracy and see everything (and often nothing) that ‘proves’ they are right…

…the problem with identifying the macro (conspiracy theory) is that then one is constantly seeing current events as micro signs signs of its advance to some end game gambit. It can get like the religious person seeing signs in world events of the coming of the end of the world.

There’s no doubt that crap happens, and some crap happens that we don’t get to know about, and some crap happens and we never find out for sure who was responsible.

But there is not just one master crapper, there are many crap shooters with different agendas, often competing.

We live in a very complex and convoluted world. Some people try to simplify things by understanding everything crappy as being caused by one conspiracy god.

Are most conspiracy theorists religious? Do they have an innate drive to find a single ‘they’ or god responsible for a myriad of intermingled machinations?

Update: mikenmild puts it another way…

Belief in all-pervading conspiracies is one coping mechanism in a complicated world; religion is another. Sometimes these mechanisms combine to produce significant, almost pathological, levels of cognitive dissonance.