I’m going to go in to bat for both David Farrar and lprent here regarding the challenges of moderating blogs.

Note in advance: I have chosen to include unacceptable language in the following post to demonstrate what has happened. The comments have been seen and circulated widely and are still public on other sites. Inciting, promoting or encouraging political violence of any type is totally unacceptable here on Your NZ, as it should be in New Zealand generally.

Controversy was sparked by a comment at Kiwiblog on Saturday morning when ‘rightoverlabour’ posted a comment saying:

I believe in eliminating terrorism. Winston is a political and economic terrorist. He has held the country to ransom, and is obfuscating on everything. His assassination would not be something I would shed a tear over. I have time for Jacinda, and the greens (even though I oppose most of their policies), as they have been open and transparent. But Winston is a despicable, narcissistic individual. Emperor Nero comes to mind as a close comparison. Sometimes the elimination of a clear and present danger is a neccesity for the survival of a reasonable society. Assassination may be a step too far, but a society has to protect itself from these types of individual gaining power. Ask the Russians, Germans, North Koreans.

I don’t think this is a threat to assassinate, but it clearly suggests and probably encourages considering it as a political act. As such it is clearly a silly, and a very irresponsible thing to say on a public forum. It deserves condemnation.

A warning was posted in response: “be careful inciting assassination is a crime”.

‘rightoverlabour’ replied to that:

Hmm, I’m not inciting it as such, just wouldn’t care if it happened. However eliminating terrorism is not a crime. I suppose it depends on how one defines terrorism. I am happy to retract the post if it is breach of the rules etc, (in which case, DPF delete it) but when does freedom of speech come in?

The problem is that even if there was no intent to incite it could possible do exactly that, so the risk must take precedence over ‘free speech’.

This cause a stir in social media and was seen as an example of the bad right and dirty politics and a sign of vicious attacks on the incoming government, amongst other things. More on that soon.

Some time later yesterday, over a day later and after it had been well publicised elsewhere, David Farrar moderated the comments:

I believe in [deleted by DPF for advocating murder and Strike 1. Do not do again]

And:

Hmm, I’m not inciting it as such, just wouldn’t care if it happened. However, eliminating terrorism is not a crime. I suppose it depends on how one defines terrorism. I am quite happy to retract the post if it is in breach of rules etc, ( in which case, DPF delete it) but then where does freedom of speech come in?

Now I give DPF the benefit of doubt here, I think he would likely have deleted the comments with a warning as soon as he found out about them. Blogs can’t be moderated 24/7, especially on holiday weekends and DPF has a baby in the family. Blogs rely on others alerting moderators them when someone steps over the line.

When concerns were raised ‘rightoverlabour’ should have contacted DPF to alert him to his comments. Others should have also done this.

As previously mentioned, these comments spread around social media and were strongly criticised for obvious reasons. They deserved condemnation. However some of the reaction was itself over the top.

A post on this appeared at The Standard mid-Sunday: Kiwibloggers discuss assassination of “terrorist” Winston Peters

There were comments in response that made unsubstantiated assertions – this is normal and allowed at TS in some situations, in contrast they demand proof and links of just about anything I post there, but that’s another story.

Brendan posted:

I hope someone contacts the police. I also hope the new government use their resources to stamp out this vitriol and disturbing behaviour.

Political disagreement is fine. Calling people names (rather than criticism of a person’s actions) is not productive, but still fine. But sanctioning violence (life-threatening violence) because you disagree with somebody’s position has no place in a peaceful democracy like ours. I’m embarrassed these people exist in New Zealand.

Embarrassing and at times disgraceful behaviour are fairly common at both Kiwiblog and The Standard. In my opinion Kiwiblog is not monitored closely enough and moderation can be lax – at one stage I deliberately broke the rules there to highlight a recidivist liar who frequently repeatedly attacked and defamed people, but I doubt it made much if any difference to ongoing behaviour there.

Kiwi blog and Whaleoil might be the haven for National’s minions, but it’s a breeding ground for New Zealand’s own far-right hate trolls. Never, ever have I seen anyone here at The Standard advocate or sanction the use of violence against political opponents.

I have, however it has usually been dealt with appropriately.

This is sick, and it’s a right-wing problem, not a left-wing problem (well not here in New Zealand), that’s inherent to the anti-democratic mind-set they espouse.

An interesting moderator response:

[lprent: It isn’t just a right-wing problem. It gets moderated out here pretty fast and long bans are often issued. Partly because most advocation of violence are offences against some of NZ’s laws, but mostly because it adds absolutely nothing to any national debate, robust or polite. Which is pretty clear when you read the sewer where the moderation is sporadic, lackadaisical and professionally inept. Even Whaleoil is better these days. ]

I pretty much agree with that. There is a real problem at Kiwiblog that I think sets it part from any other site in the way abusive and harassing behaviour isn’t controlled – it’s often out of control, and it has been for as long as I have been an observer (7-8 years).

But any site can have idiots letting loose. As happened later in that same Standard thread in two comments by ‘millsy’ (who has a history of over the line comments):

OK. if they want to kill WP, then perhaps [deleted]

They will probably be looking at about 10-20 years in Paremoremo. But seeing as they think its a 5-star luxury hotel with silver service, should be all good.

[lprent: Suggestions of illegal acts is actually a crime. Could you calm the fuck down before I have to make you? ]

And:

Oh, we have only just begun, Ian. We have only just begun, The Second October Revolution has taken place, You have lost all right to complain when you have made the choice to poison your communities water supply to ensure a boost in your profit margin. As far as I’m concerned, you deserve everything you get.

[lprent: You really need to read moderator warnings. Implied threats are still threats. Banned for two weeks. ]

That was last night, and it appears that lprent was on to it quickly. I expect he would have been aware of risks and would have been keeping a closer eye on things.

So on two blogs irresponsible and possibly illegal and certainly a poor show for the forums they were posted on were moderated appropriately, albeit slowly on Kiwiblog.

It is bloody hard moderating a blog. Most people are fine most of the time, but with relatively free speech forums people sometimes say stupid and irresponsible things, and sometimes people deliberately try to put blogs at risk – there was a spate of that here two years ago, which is eventually like to prove costly for some of those involved.

After Dirty Politics went public three years ago DPF said he seriously considered shutting Kiwiblog down, but decided to keep it going. He will have ongoing risks allowing a feral element to continue commenting there largely uncontrolled.

Anthony Robins just announced today that he is ending his stint as one of the most respected bloggers active at The Standard. He was the mainstay of The standard through the campaign, and they are likely to miss him a lot. I can criticise some of what he claims, even in his valedictory, but as far as I have seen (which is a lot) Anthony has always stayed away from dirty attack politics, he has always come across to me as a decent guy.

But I can fully understand why Anthony has chosen to move on. It can be a time consuming and at times demoralising task, especially when you try to keep standards others choose to shit in your nest.

As we shift from a Government of nine years to a completely different combination of parties there is likely to be upheaval on blogs and across social media – there are already signs of tension and conflict from both sides. Some are sour about the result, some are very defensive about any criticism of the incoming government or the parties who have formed it.

I think blog moderators will need be vigilant about bad reactions, change directions of attack, and also alert to the potential of deliberate sabotage. Small things can easily blow up into major scandals or arguments.

I think it’s sad, but in enabling and encouraging political debate it also gives the immature and the uncontrollable a means to mess things up.

All I can do is ask those contributing via comments here to keep things decent and fair – robust criticism is fine, but aim at issues and policies and actions of politicians, and keep the personal shit kicking out of it. Please.