Jumping the Whale, piling on Godwin and hypocrisy

While the main victims were those killed and injured in the Christchurch mosque attacks, and their families  and friends and the Muslim community, but it also impacted on wider New Zealand.

But some are taking Government reactions to the attacks as gross over-reactions, and are claiming themselves to be victims as the country as we know it is coming to an end. Some have jumped the shark, likening the aftermath to Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

From one day at Whale Oil (yesterday):

Guest Post (Mike Loder): What reasonable person would accept this?

Media next hailed the ‘Responsible shooter’ for handing in his gun. For the public good. They left out the part where he is a Green Party candidate and hates guns. Details. Goebbels would blush at the propaganda forced on a caring population this past week.

Hart was a Green candidate in 2017 but isn’t now. He handed in a rifle not a gun (a technicality, but something most people into firearms would know) . I have seen nothing in any of the reports about John Hart handing in his semi-automatic rifle that he ‘hates guns’. He had owned the rifle for about ten years and just handed it in on principle of removing the most dangerous firearms from circulation.  CNN reported:

He said he had purchased the semi-automatic firearm to help with killing goats and wild pigs to aid in pest control on the farm. Hart said he still has other guns on the farm for “chores and euthanizing animals.”

He still owns ‘other guns’, not a sign of hate.

There is unlikely to be any blushing at Whale Oil over the propaganda they have published, but there should be.

Christie We should all walk away from social media

The overreaction to the Christchurch massacre continues.

Notably at Whale Oil.

Duncan Garner thinks that, because he allowed social media to run his life, we all do that, but he is wrong. Not everyone who drinks wine is an alcoholic. Some people can manage these things in moderation. Because Duncan Garner cannot do that, he wants social media to be banned for the rest of us.

We really do seem to be living in Germany in the 1930s, don’t we?

There is nothing quoted in the post that supports the claim that Garner wants social media banned.

SB:  I’m scared of our government

The post is headed with a photo captioned “Georges Blind, a member of the French resistance, smiling at a German firing squad, October 1944.”

In only a couple of weeks, the most unimaginable things have started happening. I feel like I am living in an Orwellian novel and I keep waiting and hoping for a political hero like President Trump to stand up and protect New Zealand.

Censorship has come out of left field, and media are leading the charge to control what can and can’t be discussed. Stasi-like vigilante groups are being formed to spy on New Zealanders and to add them to lists.

Censorship has been a round for a long time – and has been used extensively at Whale Oil since 2014 to to control what can and can’t be discussed there.

Organisations, as well as individuals, are going to be accused of hate speech or of being hate groups and people are going to be metaphorically lined up against a wall and shot (deplatformed) by the thought-police.

Will my future grandchildren be able to read my articles or will they and I disappear down the memory hole? How long will it be before I am labelled a dissident and a non-person? It is not only bullets that can destroy a person.

The most likely reason SB’s articles will disappear will be as a result of legal and financial holes dug and dug deeper by her husband Cameron Slater, who is finding that abusing social media power and stupidity, and failing accept responsibility and instead claiming to be a victim, can contribute to self destruction.

A comment by Opal:

It’s the same feeling of unreality that must have been in Nazi Germany of 1930s. It fooled many Jewish citizens – this couldn’t happen in cultured civilized Germany.

“Nazi Germany of 1930s” seems to be a theme, if not a meme.

 

 

UK & Europe

UK-EU

Topics about the UK, EU and Europe.


This week President Erdogan of Turkey has accused both Germany and the Netherlands of acting like Nazis as relations between the countries sour.

About a week ago, Telegraph: Erdogan accuses Germany of behaving ‘like Nazis’ after Turks banned from political rallies

Turkish president Tayyip Erdogan accused Germany on Sunday of “fascist actions” reminiscent of Nazi times in a growing row over the cancellation of political rallies aimed at drumming up support for him among 1.5 million Turkish citizens in Germany.

German politicians reacted with shock and anger. German justice minister Heiko Maas told broadcaster ARD that Mr Erdogan’s comments were “absurd, disgraceful and outlandish” and designed to provoke a reaction from Berlin.

Now BBC: Turkey referendum: Dutch are Nazi remnants – Erdogan

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has described the Dutch as “Nazi remnants and fascists”, as a diplomatic row grows over a cancelled rally.

The Turkish foreign minister was due to speak in the Dutch city of Rotterdam on Saturday in support of a referendum to give Mr Erdogan greater powers.

But the rally was banned for security reasons, and the minister’s plane was then refused permission to land.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said the remark was “way out of line”.

“It’s a crazy remark, of course,” Mr Rutte said.

Turkey has summoned the Dutch charge d’affaires to the foreign ministry in Ankara for an explanation.

In a strange twist, Turkey’s family minister will attempt to travel by land to the Dutch city of Rotterdam, Turkey’s state-run Anadolu news agency said.

Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya is in Germany for separate meetings but plans to head to the Netherlands later, despite having her meetings there cancelled.

President Erdogan reacted to the ban on his foreign minister by threatening to block Dutch flights.

He said: “Ban our foreign minister from flying however much you like, but from now on, let’s see how your flights will land in Turkey.”

Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu also warned Turkey would impose heavy sanctions if his visit were blocked.

Mr Rutte warned in a statement (in Dutch) that the Turkish threat of sanctions made “the search for a reasonable solution impossible”.

Erdogan may be trying to play tough to his domestic audience but his international relations don’t look flash.

On promoting and excusing political violence

Kevin posted this comment: “Usually I’m just taking the mickey with these things but in this case there’s serious underling themes of what is violence, is it ever justified and when, etc, so could make a good thread. And to be honest I find the thread a little bit on the scary side.”

Referring to this post be ‘weka’ at The Standard: Punching Nazis, and practicing resistance

I’ve been sitting for a few days trying to figure out what I think about punching Nazis and applauding punching Nazis, as a form of resistance. The act spoke for itself in obvious ways, and yet the glee with which the anti-fascists danced around the internet putting the video to song left me discomforted, as did the inevitable stand-off between liberals and radicals about what’s ok.

In comments Marty Mars:

If you don’t punch them they think they are allowed to do what they want including punching others.

because of all that I say punch a nazi every time

Weka:

I agree with much of that, and I can’t say I have too much of a problem with the original punch.

That some people accept, excuse  and promote physical violence against people with different political views is a concern in the New Zealand context.

McFlock:

I tend to follow the rule of thumb that sometimes, some people need to be punched – but it is never a good thing.

This is why I try to avoid socialising with tories: they might be all amiable and good company, then they tend to say or do something that makes my fists itch.

Nazis are easy to justify punching, like paedophiles. I won’t be overly sad if Rolf Harris gets thumped in prison, for example.

The trouble is that if you don’t have a pretty firm line about where and when and on whom thumping is justifiable, you end up on a slippery slope.

The interesting argument is the dividing line between “someone who disagrees with you politically” and “oh hell, no, thump that guy”. In the case of nazis it’s important to not normalise their existence. So yeah, disrupt their interviews. If that doesn’t work, hit them. And the more political power they gain despite those actions, escalate it again. Because as they’ve shown, as soon as they get a legitimate toehold they’ll expand their campaign of hate.

Yes, that’s me advocating intolerance to the point of violence. The difference is that I’m intolerant to nazi-style organisations, because they’re intolerant of every other group in society. Not one or two groups that are particularly vile, everyone. That’s pretty much what makes them nazis. They glory in violence against inferiors, and see themselves as superior to everyone else (well, overcompensate much, anyway).

Weka:

Spot on McFlock. I love it when someone else does all the thinking and then encapsulates it so I don’t have to. Thanks for that 😎

I would probably separate out paedophiles from Nazis, although that’s a different conversation I think.

But as McFlock pointed out, if you start trying to decide which political views or social behaviour esxcuses violence or not it becomes a slippery slope.

Phil makes an important point:

My concern with this matter is a little more practical: what is the measurement standard for determining if one is or is not a Nazi?

Someone like Richard Spencer, with his truly vile and hateful views of race and ethnicity, would seem to exceed any reasonable metric of judging Nazi-ness and my initial gut reaction is that he deserves to be punched, repeatedly.

But, each of us is going to have a different standard for measuring Nazi-ness. Your own post hints at it by linking John Key and proto-facist. I’ve seen plenty of people on here, and other blogs, suggest everyone from John Key and Helen Clark, to George Bush and Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and Tony Blair and Nigel Farage are Nazi’s.

I have serious concerns that some deluded individual is going to think “I think Politician X is a Nazi, therefore it’s acceptable for me to punch, or shoot, or kill them” and that’s not a political opposition/resistance we should be encouraging in any way at all.

And then in comes Sanctuary:

Waaaaaaayyyy to much over-analysis going on here. The neo-fascist got clocked on camera. Good job.

And:

Jesus, what a bunch of namby pambies! You all sound like the giddy heights of resistance for you is pointedly refusing a second biscuit from a conservative vicar.

Now look here. Right wing violence in the form of cruel infliction of poverty or the humiliation of having to grovel for a dime happens all the time. These right wing neo-fascist types are not playing at politics, unlike the completely useless bunch of pearl clutching pacifists here. Those assholes wouldn’t think twice about stomach punching your granny, or slashing her pension to nothing. I would happily scone any one of them on the noggin with a baseball bat. Assholes deserve it.

Weka responded:

What are you on about? There’s 2 people in this thread who I would consider leftish, that have said it’s wrong to punch people, and 3 RWers. Everyone else is saying there’s a context and are talking about that. Hardly a bunch of namby pamby pacifists. I wonder if you are bothering to even read what people write, or the pos, let alone think about it.

Her response is a bit bizarre, and notably doesn’t oppose the violent suggestions.

I guess it’s ok to raise discussions about whether political violence is acceptable or ever justifiable, but I would have liked to see condemnation of it from a blog moderator who warns and bans people for very trivial things.

I find  labeling people left or right or Nazi or fascist in the context of making reasons and excuses for violence, especially in a politically benign New Zealand context, more than a bit disturbing.

Violence on political or religious or ethnic or just about any grounds, especially initiating it, should simply be condemned.

Godwin unwelcome

Likening the National Party to the Nazis and John Key to Hitler isn’t uncommon on political forums, even here on Your NZ.

It’s a low way of arguing against a politician or a party. It’s so outlandish as to be lame, but still not a good look for those who do it.

Zedd posted this yesterday (and it got a few upticks):

At least the ‘factions to the left’ seem to be allowed to express differing opinions..
those on ‘the right.. Team Key’ are united in one voice “Zeig Hile Mein Fuhrer” ! :/ 🙂

It’s sad to see that sort of attack by association here in New Zealand.

A recent example from The Standard (Brian Smith):

This is a good example of the ‘fourth estate’ aiding and abetting the fascist surveillance state by exposing and punishing those who dare to exercise their rights and freedoms. Ponytailgate was another example of the Herald exposing and punishing someone exercising her rights and freedoms (if you think that sexual harassment by a PM should not be made public, you clearly are a fascist who does not believe in democracy). At least the Nazi’s were upfront with their Ministry of Propaganda.

This is bad enough (dirty politics) but relatively tame when compared to other attacks. I’ve just seen a bad one on Facebook, with someone defending it as ‘protest art’ – I think that art should at least be original. And this from the last election :

It’s bad enough using this sort of imagery at all in New Zealand, but especially so considering that Key’s mother was a Jewish refugee who escaped the Holocaust.

This sort of thing is as bad as some of the worst attacks I have seen on Helen Clark and her Labour led government.

More Godwin

There must have been a bit of Godwin dished out for Christmas – another link between John key and the Nazis, this time in a guest post by Kōrero Pono at The Standard: John Key – the White Ribbon Ambassador.

I think it’s valid to question Key’s suitability as a White Ribbon Ambassador, but this isn’t the way to do it.

As an ‘ambassador’ for the White Ribbon Campaign, he is supposed to be a role model. One has to wonder what he is modelling to men in New Zealand? That rape is a joke, that it is okay to victimise women and children, it is okay to refuse to apologise when your inaction distresses victims of violence?

I don’t think he dealt with it as well as he should have, especially as a White Ribbon Ambassador, but Key didn’t make the rape ‘joke’.

Of course there are the more insidious forms of violence and oppression that John Key and his Government perpetuate on a regular basis.One of the more recent examples of the systemic violence promulgated against citizens (particularly women and children) is the accusation that poor people are poor because they take drugs. We already know that this is just another spin to taint the minds of kiwis and further alienate those affected by poverty http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/four-mistakes-prove-key-clueless-about-poverty . Any excuse not addressing poverty, and every excuse to blame the poor.

That’s extreme and ridiculous assertions. What Key actually said:

“If you look at why some people can’t get work, it’s drug dependency: go and ask any employer…’Do you drug-test people?’ and what they’ll tell you, if they drug test people, some of those people that they are testing they cannot hire because that’s the issue.

“I’m not saying it’s everyone, and I’m not arguing for one second that’s why everyone’s poor, I’m just saying that some people are locked out of the labour market because they’re taking drugs, and they are holding themselves back.”

Source:  John Key slammed for claims drug abuse behind poverty levels

I don’t think there’s any doubt that some people are poor and some people have trouble getting jobs or keeping jobs because of drug dependency. Same for alcohol dependency.

Whether some like to believe it or not, this type of spin is abusive. It is designed to oppress people, it is designed to have others believe things about a particular group in order to justify that oppression (a bit like the Nazis did and what Donald Trump is doing now).

This type of oppression is psychological abuse. Just like victims of violence and abuse it causes victims to have “low self-esteem, loss of personal identity, fear, powerlessness, suppression of anger, alienation and isolation, and guilt or ambivalence” (Geraldine Moane, 1999).

I don’t see how calling things as they are is oppression.

The Nazi reference was taken to task.

Psycho Milt:

Just out of interest, is there anyone you disagree with who isn’t like the Nazis?

Korero Pono:

Oh hey psycho are you still smarting over that – how amusing, you invited it, you asked for it even (now doesn’t that just sound a little creepy).

Psycho Milt:

Not exactly smarting – I just find it annoying when people equate mundane stuff with the Nazis. “OMG, the government is building motorways – just like the Nazis!” It’s lazy, it’s ignorant and it’s an insult to people who fought actual Nazis.

Korero Pono:

Now now Psycho you are being a little ridiculous, aren’t you? I wouldn’t equate the systemic oppression and abuse of people mundane. When someone in power disseminates misinformation in order to influence the thinking of people in order to justify the oppression of other people, that is a little bit like what the Nazis did. http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/nazprop.html .

Psycho Milt:

When someone in power disseminates misinformation in order to influence the thinking of people in order to justify the oppression of other people, that is a little bit like what the Nazis did.

And when someone in power uses government funds to build new motorways, that is a lot like what the Nazis did. So what?

It’s utterly grotesque for you to equate stuff like Key pulling a waitress’s hair or participating in some dumbass’s rape joke with one of the worst totalitarian dictatorships. Leaving aside the gratuitous insult to the Nazi’s victims, the comparison serves only to make Key’s behaviour look trivial – because, compared to the Nazis, the stuff in your post looks completely harmless.

A good point that’s likely to be ignored by Godwinners.

And One Anonymous Bloke added some irony:

To be fair, they hardly invented such behaviour: the centre-right has been dehumanising people for centuries.

Odd that “the centre-right” was singled out – Stalin, the Russian gulags, the Stasi, Mao, the Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot all could be accused of dehumanising people as much as anyone.

Socialism in practice has often had an aim of reducing everyone to being ‘equals’ – not treating people as diverse humans with different abilities and needs.

“The Jewish Supremacist Crime Wave Sweeping New Zealand & the World”

Someone emailed me a link to a post titled The Jewish Supremacist Crime Wave Sweeping New Zealand & the World on a blog called Fourth Reich Watch NZ.

Their About description:

The same inbred global bankers and their quest for Global Corporate (fascist) Government – the same goal as Hitler and his Third Reich – back in full force trying to take over the Globe again- by staging 911, taking over the Middle East – while controlling the corporate media and all political parties across the West to stifle the truth and any dissent. Millions murdered already with their bombs, chemical weapons, guns and the worst weapon of all- their money counterfeiting and the resulting inflation. All sides controlled – yes, even Winston Peters.

They also state Zionism = Nazism.

Why give them any more exposure? It’s worth seeing and knowing what is being promoted in New Zealand.

The blog post begins:

What is the difference between “We are God’s Chosen People” and “We are the Master Race” – well nothing at all as it turns out……

(Please note- all links/ references open in a new window)

I first became interested in this subject of Jewish Supremacy when I noticed how many of our media personalities claimed to have family members who “survived the Holocaust” – it seems to me most of them have – and yet they all support, indeed help sell, the same policies out of Nazi Germany that we see being implemented in NZ and across the West. These policies include blanket spying on citizens, money printing/ counterfeiting, illegal invasions & wars, secret arrests, state sanctioned torture, and detention without trial.

Likening New Zealand today with Nazi Germany is bizarre to say the least.

Just off the top of my head, these so called ‘journalists’ include: Mike Hosking, Leighton Smith, Deborah Coddington, Michelle Boag, Paul Henry, Simon Dallow and his cousin Luke Dallow (who sells RTD’s on Ponsonby Road to teenagers and sometimes appears on George FM), Toni Street, Danny Watson, Tony Veitch, Alison Mao, Mark Sainsbury, Rodney Hide, David Slack and Sean Plunket – just to name a few.

I have no idea whether all of these people have claimed to have family members who “survived the Holocaust” or not.

All of them have aired their close personal story about the Holocaust and life in Nazi Germany for their families or close friends – and yet they all agree with and help sell the same policies here in NZ now. They even quote the Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Geobbels when they all say “If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”, in regards to our recent State sanctioned loss of privacy.

I’m not going to try and look for evidence that “they all say” that.

In fact- even our Jewish Prime Minister has been quoting this Nazi Party line.

Key’s mother was an Austrian Jewish immigrant (his father was an English immigrant). Key says he is “technically Jewish” through his mother but this Herald article (2006) states his religious views as  “Do I believe in God? I don’t believe in life after death. I look at religion as doing the right thing; I don’t define that as someone that goes to church necessarily on a Sunday. I mean I go to church a lot with the kids, but I wouldn’t describe it as something that I … I’m not a heavy believer; my mother was Jewish which technically makes me Jewish. Yeah, I probably see it in a slightly more relaxed way.”

Odd isn’t it? Firstly, how can over half our media personalities claim to be of Jewish origins when census records show they only represent .5% of our population?

Regardless of any possible Jewish family background that doesn’t appear to be “over half our media personalities”.

Is that racism? And Jewish supremacy? Secondly, how can they all be vocal supporters of Third Reich policies such as money printing by the Jewish controlled US Federal Reserve (almost every top exec and CEO of the privately owned Federal Reserve for the past 30 years, has been Jewish), blanket spying on citizens, illegal wars and the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in every Country in the Middle East except Israel and the Saudi Crown?

There seems to be a repeat theme here.

The other amazing coincidence about these people – is they all apparently have a blanket media ‘black out’ policy on any discussion about the events of 911.

The 911 attacks were fourteen years ago so media could perhaps be excused from not giving it blanket coverage still. I remember extensive coverage at the time and for months and years afterwards – but I haven’t done an analysis of which media personalities might have abstained from any coverage.

Anyone with any basic common sense  knows that sky scrapers do not collapse due to office fires or jet fuel.

What they mean is most media doesn’t keep promoting the views of conspiracy theorists?

I’ll skip to the end now.

The author is not religious – knowing full well that all of the religions are merely astrological tales of a repeating history on Earth- but one has to marvel at how a 1700 year old book predicts this time we are now in – as we witness the destruction of Christianity and the implementation of a New World Order run from Israel & their Saudi lackies, with Microchips as the new means of control, and Global Jewish Supremacy at the very top- again.

Those who have read this article- will now at least know to keep those devices away from your children- and out of your bedroom-as they are all two way spy devices, with back doors leading right back to the pervert supremacists in Israel.

“Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.- Revelation 13:16-18 “

Pictured below – the numerous Multi National Companies all using the ‘Rings of Saturn’ in their logos – they are telling you, the New World Order is Global Jewish/ Saturnian Supremacy – starting with the sponsorship and funding of Hitler, to destroy Germany and  create the excuse for Israel, the constant wars in the Middle East since then, the staged 911 attacks, the  so called War on Terror, the manufactured refugee crisis and now the TPPA and other so called ‘free trade’ deals. All the result of God’s Chosen Cult and their race towards total Global corporate supremacy- with the Goy as their slaves, all carrying around their spy devices and microchips with them everyday – the new Mark of the Beast.

The great thing about the Internet is that everyone has an opportunity to have their say. And everyone has a chance to see what is said.

NZ First Nastyism

NZ First have opposed everything about the flag change consideration process. They oppose flag change so they oppose the flag referendums – despite this being contrary to their policy on democratic process.

In the Red Peak debate yesterday NZ First MP Denis O’Rourke took opposition to flag consideration to a new low – a very low low.

O’Rourke likened the Red Peak flag to Nazism. This is gross Nastyism.

First he showed various photos of German sentry boxes from World War 2:

ORourkePillbox

It’s a major stretch claiming that looks like Red Peak.

But it got worse. O’Rourke then showed a concocted symbol from multiple Red Peak flags arranged at various angles. He took this off Twitter where it had been circulated.

ORourkeNastyismThis is disgraceful from a Member of Parliament. O’Rourke is a disgrace displaying current New Zealand flags prominently alongside this sort of despicable contrived symbolism.

Draft transcript of O’Rourke’s speech:

So let us look at this peculiar alternative called the Red Peak. It is angular, gaudy, and in no way representative of New Zealand or our culture. It is suitable as a road danger sign, and it looks very much like a commercial logo. It is virtually the same as that of a commercial Canadian log-hauling company.

More worrying is the similarity with the design of Nazi sentry boxes during World War II . Look at this photograph: this is actually a photograph taken from the Atlantic Wall Open Air Museum in Oostende, Belgium, and in it, that is a Nazi sentry box.

Look at it. Look at the design on the side of it. Look at the fact that it begins with a red peak, with a white peak on top of that which is also identical to the Red Peak flag. Then there is a black peak on top of that, also identical to the Red Peak flag. Only that little bit of blue, in one corner, is missing.

There is an uncanny resemblance, and the sad fact is that the Nazi colours were red, white, and black, as the Red Peak flag is, and those are the colours that dominate the Red Peak flag. Those who doubt, have a look at this photograph, because there is that same sentry box in full colour.

The similarity is absolutely stunning—absolutely stunning. Let us look at that design that I have just shown you, and the Red Peak, side by side. Look at the similarity. Could it be much closer? It could not—it could not be much closer. That is how close the Red Peak design is to a Nazi sentry box design from World War II.

I would like Gareth Hughes to have a good look at it, but he does not want to because he does not want to know the truth.

But people will make mischief of it. This design was obtained tonight from the internet. It was not by New Zealand First—not encouraged by New Zealand First—but by somebody already going on to the internet to say that.

O’Rourke and by association NZ First has not just encouraged this, he has promoted and displayed the nonsense in Parliament.

With simple shapes like red peak it’s possible to juggle bits around and make up all sorts of unrelated images.

That is what people will do with that design because it is absolutely nothing to do with New Zealand’s culture or New Zealand’s people.

We will be ridiculed overseas in exactly this sort of way if New Zealand was to adopt that kind of awful monstrosity of a design for the New Zealand flag. Imagine what the Aussies will say, not to mention the Yanks. What about the British tabloids—they will have absolute field day if we were to adopt a flag like that. I would not blame them.

The national flag of New Zealand must engender respect for our country, not provide a means of ridicule.

Such a nasty Godwin attack on an alternative design while flying the current flag does the opposite of engender respect for O’Rourke and NZ First.

Denis O’Rourke and New Zealand First – this is shameful disgraceful nasty politics.

Full video of his speech:

When comfort a gramar nazi

I have a reasonably good knowledge of grammar and spelling and it stands out when I see mistakes made.

I type a lot of stuff online and sometimes make mistakes, usually through carelessness – I often type and post things in a hurry and while multi-tasking. And then I don’t proof-read carefully enough – or at all.

So when I see mistakes that I’ve posted it annoys me.

It matters. Sort of. To some people grammar and spelling don’t matter. But one has to try and cater for everyone’s taste. and no one seems to complain when you get things right.

ISIS – doing something versus doing nothing

John Key is promoting the chances New Zealand contribues to Iraqi efforts to defeat the spread of the Islamic State – Prime Minister: Let’s help Iraq.

In an unscripted speech on a marae today Prime Minister John Key told Maori leaders that New Zealand are not going to turn the other cheek to the horrors being seen in the Middle East.

Diplomacy was what was needed but New Zealand also needed to support other people around the world.

“The day before yesterday a Jordanian pilot was burned to death with petrol and yesterday some gay people were thrown off a building because ISIS don’t like their sexuality,” he said.

“A few weeks ago 10-year-old kids were rolled out to behead soldiers who were part of the Iraqi forces.“

New Zealand could get involved in trying to limit the spred and influence of ISIS and that would almost certainly increase the risk of New Zealand or New Zealanders being targetted by terrorists.

Or we could do nothing and oppose any other countries interfering. That could work out ok.

Or it could allow a terrorist group to become more terrible. Potentially sunstantially more terrible.

Generally I’m against war and I’m against violence – but sometimes it’s necessary to oppose violence with violence to limit it. That’s an unfortunate reality of how our world works in practice.

Sometimes resorting to Godwin is necessary to make a point. Rod Emmerson:

ISIS is very different in how it ooperates to Nazi Germany, but unchecked they could end up being as dangerous.

Doing nothing seems to be a worse risk than trying to do something.

UPDATES:(thanks Allytoo and Alan))

Kiwiblog: How widespread is extreme Islam?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke

Little, Kiwiblog on fascism

Andrew Little’s ““We’ve just heard the voice of the fascist National Party,”  comment has been reported and also posted about on Kiwiblog – Someone teach Mr Little what fascism really is.

Some comments were directed at Peter Dunne for voting against the bill – they were typical uninformed bashing. And they asked me why he voted against, so I’ve responded.

Andrew Little made a dickish comment. I think it reinforces an impression he is not future leadership material, but when you look at Cunliffe’s vapid and vitriolic style of criticism it can’t be ruled out in the current Labour party.

To the dopey Dunne bashers, I have no idea why he voted against it, but I can guess.

The defeat was not unexpected as a number of National ministers and employer groups have expressed disquiet about the bill being a step too far.

So his vote seems sensible to me. Coincidentally he may have done National a favour.

Moanolo’s cut and paste ” the perennial whore Dunne repositioning himself” is clearly wrong, especially when you look at what else was voted on and how he voted – Members’ Bills Shot Down.

Dunne also voted against Winston Peters’ Reserve Bank Amendment Bill presumably because it’s a dumb bill.

And he indicated (in the news) he will vote against Harawira’s Breakfast and Lunch Programmes in Schools Bill because he thinks it is “fundamentally flawed for a number of reason” and he thinks the current Government approach is cheaper and “a far more comprehensive and feasible approach”.

Perpetual Dunne bashers don’t bother to find out for themselves, they ask me to do it for them. It’s not difficult if you want actual facts to back your comments with. On the other hand facts prove them to be nothing more than pissy dissers so that probably explains it.

A hilarious response on Kiwiblog from ‘big bruv’:

Jesus wept!….”dopey Dunne bashers”?………..And you wonder you cop so much abuse on this blog.

Your arrogance is outstanding, matched only by Redbaiters. What on earth gives you the idea that the 99.02% of people in NZ are wrong about the political whore Dunne and you are right?

Dunne is in it for himself, always has been. What you and the other 0.08 of idiots who support him forget is that Dunne is only there because the Nat’s let him, Dunne has no right to vote against the government, none at all.

big bruv illustrates what I said – why let facts or the actual topic get in the way of a raving redbaiteresque rant.

Practising the Kiwiblog motto is easy. DPF should start direct marketing Kiwiblog Screen Wipes.

Dunne has no right to vote against the government, none at all.

Hilarious. If he votes with National he’s called a poodle, if he votes against he’s a traitor. And if he didn’t vote he’d be abused for sitting on the fence.

And here if I say something about him I’m abused. And if I don’t say anything about him I’m abused (as per the Little thread yesterday and many others).

And you wonder you cop so much abuse on this blog.

Ah, no I don’t wonder. You just have to look at those who do the abusing. Them without mirrors.

Dunne got enough votes in Ohariu to have a right to vote however he sees fit in Parliament. Unlike a few SpitLittles on Kiwiblog – the perpetually impotent.